I'll be the first!!

velochic · 10-12-2004, 05:28 AM

We are American Expats in Munich. Have a dd, almost 3 and LOVE living OUS. It's been an adjustment though, going from the very "casual" lifestyle in the US to the very rigid lifestyle here. And it's been difficult explaining extended nursing to the locals (or even other American's truth be told), but we really feel that we're in a lot better situation now, raising kids that is, than we were in the US. At least spanking and hitting your kids is illegal here.

DebraBaker · 10-12-2004, 07:08 AM

We have good friends who are from Munich. They have a nice relaxed attitude toward their children much different from typical American parents (I'm not explaining that one well)

Our school has an exchange program with a Gymnasium in Munich as well. One of my daughters went on an exchange and two more will go next time.

Debra Baker

Baby Hopes · 10-12-2004, 07:54 AM

Guess, I'll be third!

Dh and I are also from the States, living in Germany. Although, we are over here in Stuttgart. Have one daughter turning whose 9 months old. Currently have a year left before we head back stateside.

Does anyone know what the nursing 'rights' are here in Germany? DD is still under a year, and I hardly even get an eye batted at me when I NIP... but I have wondered what my legal rights are. Just curious.

IdentityCrisisMama · 10-12-2004, 08:17 AM

What's this all about? So many MDCers in Germany, France and England that we get our own little spot? Cool!

I'm from the US and live in Heidelberg, Germany. DH is working for the US Dod (department of defense) school system. How are the rest of you here?

I'm enjoying this experience but I'm having a difficult time learning German to the point where I'm relaxed and comfortable communicating intimately. I'm lost a good 20% of the time and completely mentally exhausted after only a short while.

Other than the language, things are going very well for us. I fit with the culture in our area very well and have met lots of friends. Actually, if I spoke German this would be the best social arrangement for me because the community of parents and adults that I have had contact with has been amazing!

We did have a MDC get together here in Heidelberg! Maybe we should do it again sometime.

I'm surprised to hear that spanking is illegal in Munich. Is this all over Germany? Do you have any links for that info?

I would imagine that the rights for BFing are quite good here because I doubt anyone thinks they can use the whole 'indecent exposure' thing that some people from the US get so stuck on. I did have some problems BFing here as soon as I went beyond the 'norm', which is under a year in Heidelberg. But, no one tried any 'legal' stuff ~ they were just shocked, lol!

I’m struggling a touch because I decided not to enroll DC in pre-k and that's out of the norm for my area. I think some people think this is a little strange but they are nice about it.

Sometimes, being a 'foreigner' is really an advantage!

Plaid Leopard · 10-12-2004, 08:44 AM

Hello -

I am American, DH is French and we have been living in Germany for the past 2 1/2 years. We were in Leipzig in the east but will soon be moving to Saarbrucken, right on the French border.

I don't speak much German yet, I'm hoping to get my act together once we get settled in Saarbrucken.

We have 3 children ages 6, 4 and 9 months. I've never had any problems with people commenting about EBF, and I was able to have a homebirth, and it's a lot easier to find organic foods, but what has been difficult for us is the fact that homeschooling is illegal. Everyone thinks we are crazy for not sending our children to kindergarten or school, and obviously there is no support, and no homeschooing groups or activities.

I am glad that we decided to leave the US, even though Germany was not our first (or even 2nd, 3rd or 4th) choice of places we wanted to live. I really feel like i is a better place to raise children.

Gotta go - hungry kids calling.

Elphaba · 10-12-2004, 08:54 AM

Hello! We are military and living in Baumholder until 2007. I'm a bit addled right now, so that's all I'm going to post.

IdentityCrisisMama · 10-12-2004, 08:54 AM

Hey, Rachel

How are you? Will you be back soon? We'd love to see you and Aya would LOVE to see Axcel (how is his name spelled?). She calls him her boyfriend and is really into him ~ still.

Here's the link to the other thread

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...6&page=3&pp=20

(with pics...you got them right, Rachel?)

IdentityCrisisMama · 10-12-2004, 08:56 AM

Cross post, Elph...

Hi!

Elphaba · 10-12-2004, 08:59 AM

ICM, did you check out the birthday photos yet? Aya was so cute!
When Rachel comes back, I say we converge on her house.

velochic · 10-12-2004, 10:40 AM

Yep, spanking is illegal here:

"Corporal punishment of children (spanking) is a crime in Germany that can lead to a child being taken away from parents by the local government youth authorities"

http://www.exploitz.com/data/consul/germany.html

@DebraBaker - that surprises me because of all of the German states, Bayern (where Munich is) is considered to be the most stringent of all of them. Moms wean ON THE DAY of the 6 month birthday, co-sleeping is rare, homeschooling is prohibited by LAW and children are required to go to kindergarten at like 2 or 3 whether you like it or not. Of course, we are residents, not citizens, so we have it a little easier time of it (dd will be 3 in Feb.) .

So, culturally, we're doing well here. We kind of do our own thing, and I muddle through with my German. I took 3 years of German in high school, but that was "Hoch Deutsch" and the Bavarian's accent is much harder to understand. Has anyone here been down our way? Oy, it's almost like Texas... a whole other country!

We do let dd watch some TV to help her German and I'm learning too. She especially likes "Pingu" and "Pumukl". We also let her watch some of the Nordic cartoons (Hans Folgersson??). No American programs are allowed because we will go home some day and I don't want her to feel bombarded with the marketing when we go home. Her german is much better than mine. For some reason, Toggo and Kika don't seem to "market" their goods as much as they do on TV in the US. Just my opinion.

Hmmm... things I like about living here:

- Lots of organic foods to choose from
- Bioabfal
- recycling on every corner
- public transportation that is actually convenient
- homeopathic remedies are the first choice of doctors
- fresh food doesn't have preservatives
- Tchibo offers at the grocery store
- cheap Nachtzugs around Europe
- every woman is expected to nurse to 6 months
- great Turkish food

Things I DON'T like about living here:

- Spending so much time dividing my trash into all its comparments
- the smell of bioabfal
- the price of gas - can I say this here? Bush is an idiot and causing problems for everyone over the globe
- not being able to get medications prescribed to me that were prescribed in the US because they are not homepathic
- having to use the foods I buy ON the day I buy them
- being so conveniently located to go anywhere my heart wants to, but my pocketbook says, "No!" because dh is a university professor earning dollars instead of euros
- being a closet nurser because my almost 3 year old still loves "both sides" as much as she did the first time she latched on
- having a dh who is from Turkey and wants to take advantage of the plethora of Turkish restaurants we have here

DebraBaker · 10-12-2004, 11:05 AM

Hmm, My friend nursed past one year.

She used my old sling.

She and I knew about homeopathics. She did say there was more widespread use of homeopathic remedes in Germany.

They use more gentle approaches. I think it's a mentality they expect their children's behaviors are *normal* and expected instead of something wrong to be fixed (if that makes any sense)

Something peculiar she does is she makes (hand sews) little sack gowns for her toddler (he'll be two in December) and they're quilted armless blanket sacks that zip and keep the little ones warm. They are so darling and she says everyone uses them in Germany.

Can you guess how much I love this family.

Debra Baker

velochic · 10-13-2004, 02:33 AM

It sounds like you do love this family. I have always found Germans and especially Bavarians to be very warm and loving people. Family is the most important thing in the world to them and it shows. Kids are well-loved here. This comment:

Quote:

They use more gentle approaches. I think it's a mentality they expect their children's behaviors are *normal* and expected instead of something wrong to be fixed (if that makes any sense)

sounds SPOT ON! It really does make sense and is very accurate. I hear "let kids be kids" so often here, it's wonderful.

I think your friend sounds like a wonderful mom, but like in the States, she doesn't sound very "mainstream" Bavarian.

My best friend here just had a baby in August and she had her mom SEND her a ring sling from the US because they simply don't have them here. She gets comments from "what is that?" to "Mein Gott, you're going to break her neck in that thing" to "You're suffocating her!" It never fails to get a comment. I was talking to my fellow LLL leader a while back about slinging and extended breastfeeding here in Munich and it seems to me that the general attitude is that it creates a dependency. Well, duh!

I've even heard comments like, "EB causes psychological problems when the kids go through puberty" and "Get the kid off of the tits and let your husband have them back".

Oh, and they were HIS in the FIRST PLACE?? That one really pi$$es me off! Anyway, the only women I know of that BF past 6 months or sling (they do have Didymos slings here) are usually associated with LLL Deutschland here. I'm sure there are others, but I don't think this AP attitude is very widespread, although I know they are working on changing attitudes here. I think the main influence is that they are SO resistant to change! "This is how it's always been done." I'm going to my first LLL conference here next month, so it will be interesting to talk to women from all over Germany about this. My comments were about personal experiences and perhaps I'm not seeing the bigger picture.

Oh, and those sleeping sacks - yeah, they are everywhere. They're pretty clever actually because you don't need blankets (heat goes off for a few hours in the middle of the night to conserve energy) and the baby can't kick it off. I wish I had known about them when dd was a newborn and we were living in the States.

Hollycrand · 10-13-2004, 07:37 AM

Hey, I'm impressed that Germany gets its own forum. Yippee!

Regarding the comment above on requiring your child to attend kindergarten at 2 or 3, I am very surprised. I know that every 'Land' has its own school regulations (and Bavarian schools are considered to be the best) but I would be very surprised if it's illegal not to send your child to kindergarten.
Here in Baden Wurttemberg, children are required to be in school by age 7, but even that age can be deferred by parents upon request.
I think if a parent wanted to, he/she could not send their child to kindergarten (and of course get comments from neighbours, etc. but that's just a details) without any legal recourse.

Just wanted to add in my two cents! (oops, better make that 3 cents since prices went up in October)

-Holly. mama to Catarina (20.07.04)

DebraBaker · 10-13-2004, 07:56 AM

I'm glad Bayern has the best schools since our high school has a longterm exchange program with a school in Munchen (Teresium Gymnasium (spelling errors for sure)

Another thing I've noticed is German people think our food is "too sweet" I love the less sweet sweets and my friends (and the exchange teens I've met) don't eat as much food in general and especially highly sweetened foods.

My friend is a bit alternative. I gave her the sling I don't think it was a German thing. Apparently homeopathics are common. Their boys were too young for school when they came here but I am friends with her sister and I think I could find out whether preschool is mandatory (but I don't think so)

DB

tinyshoes · 10-13-2004, 09:30 AM

Hi mamas...I don't live in Germany, but I had to peek at this forum (long ago, there was a significant romance with a Berliner...I couldda ended up staying in Germany, and visiting this new forum!)

Anyway (since I'm still interested in other German things) a few months ago I stumbled upon a seemingly cool German site about breastfeeding (stillen) that may be of interest:

ich stille

Also, a handy-dandy online dictionary/translation device that I admire quite a lot:

German <-> English

Alles Gute!

PumpkinSeeds · 10-13-2004, 10:22 AM

Well we are living in the Netherlands. Not exactly Germany, but hey, we don't get our own forum.. hehehe

What velochic said above pretty much applies here too, more or less. Much slower pace of life, more family oriented, etc.

THe only thing is everyone smokes here.....

velochic · 10-13-2004, 11:33 AM

Hey PumpkinSeeds - took our first trip to Amsterdam several weeks ago. We really enjoyed the trip and hope to go back again before we go back to the US. We saw the Anne Frank house (very moving, I had to hold back tears for the whole tour), took a canal tour, went around the city a lot and found this wonderful area with all of these antique stores. The room we stayed in was on the 3rd floor and those stairs were killers, but we loved the ambiance. One of the first things we noticed was that all of the buildings have those hooks at the top to bring up furniture, so we were always discussing the merits of the different "hook" designs.

The only major touristy thing we didnt do is hit one of the "coffee houses".

But we really enjoyed Holland. You've got a great atmosphere there!

Plaid Leopard · 10-13-2004, 04:55 PM

[

When Rachel comes back, I say we converge on her house.[/QUOTE]

We'd love to have you! Just have to find a house first.
We'll be back sometime in January.

PumpkinSeeds · 10-14-2004, 12:37 AM

SOunds like a great trip to Amsterdam, velochic. We haven't gone yet except once in a hurried rush to get paperwork done.

I can't wait until we are able to travel a little more.

behr · 10-15-2004, 04:32 AM

Hi gals

I'm in beautiful Konstanz, right on the Swiss border. I am German, but have lived in several other countries.

Funny you feel Germans, in general, are warm and loving, velochic , I've always considered us to be the cool, stand-offish, nagging types.
My dd is always sooo caught off guard when we visit the States and people are sweet and nice to her.

Kindergarten is NOT mandatory, but there is a definite 'mitlaeufer mentality', so when you don't do what everybody else does you're looked upon as weird. School, however, is mandatory, and things will get tough if you won't send your kids after the age of 8, definitely.

AP is not mainstream, but there are always some who do things differently, even in conservative places like Bayern and Baden-Wuerrtemberg. I know of one woman who practices extended bf, and we sometimes ask each other (when nobody else listens) whether we STILL do 'it'.

Yea, I love the fact that people here don't view their or other's bodies as something dirty. I love the fact that my dd's can undress at the beach without catching bad looks, that I can spend an afternoon at the sauna wandering about in just my skin. So sad this is still such an issue in the States.

Homeopathics - actually the insurance agencies are planning to take all homeopathic remedies off of their plans. That would be bad. Sometimes it's good there is so much resistance to change here, since these things tend to take forever...

Schools - is a good school one that turns out kids with a maximum amount of theoretical knowledge? I have a lot of issues with schools here. I'm a product of a catholic girl's school, and that was definitely no fun experience! Things are changing, but, again, slooooooowly, adn there's little money. I am so very glad I went to University in the States. I had never known that learning could actually be fun...
Just yesterday we were talking about our high-school science classes (I majored in biology) and the complete absence of any real-life, practical stuff. My first encounter with a Bunsen burner was a memorable one: I knew what it was from the books, but had absolutely no idea how to turn it on.

Anyway, I'm glad you enjoy living in this country, well, most of you anyway (Elphaba, what does addled mean??).