Does GSE expire? - Mothering Forums

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Old 10-08-2007, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I found a bottle that I didn't realize I still had and I figure it's about 1.5 yo maybe a bit less. It's unopened.
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Old 10-08-2007, 03:49 PM
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It doesn't, but it's fraudulent anyway.
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Old 10-08-2007, 04:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
It doesn't, but it's fraudulent anyway.
I don't understand what you mean
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Old 10-09-2007, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by papschmitty View Post
I don't understand what you mean
It's not really an extract from grapefruit seeds.
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:29 AM
 
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What is it then?
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Aren't there any other GSE users here? I can't believe that nobody else has anything to contribute to Robert's info.

PS
I had no idea it wasn't what I thought it was btw.
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Old 10-09-2007, 12:06 PM
 
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No clue what it really is. I've only used it a few times (for clearing up yeast) and it seemed to work well.

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Old 10-09-2007, 02:10 PM
 
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OK, I see people mentioning GSE all the time in these threads! I'd love to hear more about what it is, exactly what people use it for, and why it works. There's an EO co-op on another thread I frequent and I can get 4 oz of GSE for $10! I've been wanting to try GSE but don't want to get that much unless I can use it all without it going bad.
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Old 10-09-2007, 03:42 PM
 
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Maybe Mr. Goodman has more information but I found this online.
Quote:
How is Grapefruit Extract Made?

Grapefruit extract (GSE) is made by first converting grapefruit seeds and pulp into a very acidic liquid. This liquid is loaded with polyphenolic compounds, including quercitin, helperidin, campherol glycoside, neohelperidin, naringin, apigenin, rutinoside, poncirin, etc.

The polyphenols themselves are unstable but are chemically converted into more stable substances that belong to a diverse class of products called quaternary ammonium compounds. Some quaternary compounds, benzethonium chloride and benzalkonium chloride, for example, are used industrially as antimicrobials, but are toxic to animal life. The B vitamin choline is also a quaternary compound, but is nontoxic and even essential for maintaining healthy neurological function and fat metabolism.

Grapefruit extract features the best of both worlds. While evidencing none of the toxic side-effects of chemically-derived quaternaries.

The finished product is a viscous, yellow-amber colored liquid that features a taste that is both bitter and acidic. Pure vegetable glycerin is added to reduce the bitterness and acidity to a tolerable level and to reduce the possibility that incidental contact could cause irritation to the skin or mucous membranes. Grapefruit seed extract has a slight citrus smell.
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:27 PM
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I was unaware of the fraudulent nature of grapefruit seed extracts until my att'n was called to it by a very knowledgeable guy, who has died since then, in another forum. The moderators here say we're not supposed to even name other online forums, so I'll leave it at that. Unfortunately I don't have a link handy, but you can probably find it if you search for the conjunction of "GSE" and "quaternary", or maybe just "GSE" and "fraudulent".

I like others for years had thought that someone in the 1990s had discovered by observing the decomposition of grapefruit a zone of inhibition of microbial growth around the seeds, and had succeeded in extracting from grapefruit seeds an inhibitory fraction useful as a preservative, and had several imitators who did similarly. However, my sources explained that all brands of putative GSE that they could find either had no significant antimicrobial effect, or had such effect only because of the addition of exogenous preservatives of various kinds, or the chemical synthesis (as described previously in this thread) of quaternary ammonium compounds from precursor material extracted from grapefruit seeds.

To the extent the "quats" (as they're called in the industry) in the brand of GSE described in the previous post are different from the usual kind listed, does anyone have any evidence that they have any better ratio of effectiveness to toxicity? If not, there doesn't seem to be any reason to make them from grapefruit seeds than there is to make them from the usual, cheaper precursors.

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Old 10-10-2007, 07:22 PM
 
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OK, I did a search and came up with the explanation below from this online site:
Quote:
There are several articles on the internet indicating problems with grapefruit seed extract. (In truth, it’s just one article that’s been re-circulated several times). The key points of the article are:
Grapefruit seed extract is highly processed
It’s not natural
It’s not organic
The extraction process uses toxic solvents such as hexane
The extraction process converts the natural phenolic compounds found in grapefruit into synthetic quaternary ammonium compounds such as benzethonium chloride, a highly toxic synthetic germicidal
It doesn’t work
All of the so called benefit comes from chemical preservatives added to grapefruit seed extract.
In fact, there is some truth to the claims, but, as they say, the devil is in the details.

Is it a highly processed product? Judge for yourself; here is the process.

The extract is prepared by grinding grapefruit seeds and pulp into a fine powder. The powder is dissolved into purified water and distilled to remove fiber and pectin. The distilled slurry is spray dried at low temperatures forming a concentrated grapefruit bioflavonoid powder. This concentrated powder is dissolved in vegetable glycerin and heated. Food grade ammonium chloride (An acidic substance found naturally in the stomach) and ascorbic acid are added. This mixture is heated under pressure where it undergoes catalytic conversion using natural catalysts, including hydrochloric acid and natural enzymes. The slurry is then cooled, filtered, and treated with ultraviolet light. Residual ammonium chloride in the final product is between 15 and 18%; residual ascorbic acid is between 25 and 35 mg/kg. There is no residue of hydrochloric acid in the final product. In the United States, standardized GSE contains 60% grapefruit extract materials and 40% vegetable glycerin.

As to not being natural or organic and, that depends on your source and your definition. Some brands definitely fit that definition. Other sources use organic grapefruit as the source ingredient and use natural solvents in the extraction process as outlined above. They qualify as organic.

And as for the complaint that the process produces synthetic quaternary ammonium compounds. That sounds bad unless you realize that B-vitamins such as choline and acetylcholine are quarternary ammonium compounds. In fact, the active component in grapefruit seed extract is diphenol hydroxybenzene, which is similiar to benzethonium chloride, but not the same. Statements that grapefruit seed extract contains traces of benzethonium chloride are inaccurate.

But the real statement that needs to be addressed is that grapefruit seed extract doesn’t work and that all its benefits come from added preservatives. And for that statement the articles rely primarily on a single report

From the Institute of Pharmacy, Ernst Moritz Arndt University, Greifswald, Germany. Woedtke T, Schluter B, Pflegel P, Lindequist U, Julich WD. 1999. Aspects of the antimicrobial efficacy of grapefruit seed extract and its relation to preservative substances contained. Pharmazie 54:452-6.
Not to be dismissive, but although the Ernst Moritz Arndt University has a long history, it is not ranked in the top 500 Universities in the world. More importantly, the results of this study are countermanded by dozens of other studies published over the last 30 years proving the exact opposite – that grapefruit seed extract does indeed have strong anti-pathogenic properties. For example:

A study by the USDA found it effective against three animal viruses: The United States Department of Agriculture, Greenport, New York, USA. Citricidal Effective Against Three Animal Viruses: Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD), African Swine Fever (ASF), Swine Vesicular Disease (SVD).

Testing was conducted by the U. of Georgia, in Athens, GA, to evaluate grapefruit seed extract in tests against E. Coli, Salmonella sps, and Staph aureus. Roger Wyatt, Ph.D., and Microbiologist for the U. of GA, reported, "Our studies indicate excellent potential for these products (GSE). ...The toxicological that I have reviewed indicated that this product and the active ingredient poses very low toxicity. As you know this is important because most disinfectants that are currently used in either animal or human environments have moderate to high toxicity and extreme care must be exercised when these products are used. The lack of any significant toxicological properties of (GSE) is also impressive when one views the efficacy data where extemely small concentrations of the product can be used with marked beneficial results."
And in fact, grapefruit seed extract is used in a number of hospitals around the world for its antimicrobial properties both to sterilize hospital laundry and carpets, and in higher concentrations, to disinfect operating rooms.
Bottom line: it is for the above reasons that, at least at this time, that Jon Barron still recommends the use of grapefruit seed extract.
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Old 10-11-2007, 02:54 AM
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The extract is prepared by grinding grapefruit seeds and pulp into a fine powder. The powder is dissolved into purified water and distilled to remove fiber and pectin. The distilled slurry is spray dried at low temperatures forming a concentrated grapefruit bioflavonoid powder. This concentrated powder is dissolved in vegetable glycerin and heated. Food grade ammonium chloride (An acidic substance found naturally in the stomach) and ascorbic acid are added. This mixture is heated under pressure where it undergoes catalytic conversion using natural catalysts, including hydrochloric acid and natural enzymes. The slurry is then cooled, filtered, and treated with ultraviolet light.
By the time you get done with that, you didn't need the grapefruit seeds! You could've started with any of various kinds of organic matter -- maybe from a landfill or compost-- and gotten as effective a preservative, probably cheaper.

Quote:
A study by the USDA found it effective against three animal viruses
But that has nothing to do with its being able to function as a preservative for inanimate matter. Viruses don't cause spoilage.

Quote:
And in fact, grapefruit seed extract is used in a number of hospitals around the world for its antimicrobial properties both to sterilize hospital laundry and carpets, and in higher concentrations, to disinfect operating rooms.
That last bit, about disinfecting ORs, I won't believe unless I see it reported by the hospital itself.

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Old 10-12-2007, 12:27 AM
 
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I have to agree with Robert on this one.
One thing to note, the only sources of information that are available about GSE come from the only manufacturers of GSE. Check your sources, everything that is out there traces back to the same company.
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