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#1 of 44 Old 03-30-2005, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I remember reading years ago that fetal tissue was used in manufacturing vax. Has anyone else heard that? Anyone have any link, references, etc?


Thanks.
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#2 of 44 Old 03-30-2005, 05:31 AM
 
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I think they refer to it as human diploid cells. I am going to try to find a link. From what I understand it is from one fetus from the 60's and they continue using the cells to make more cells?

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#3 of 44 Old 03-30-2005, 07:46 AM
 
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The following information on WI-38 (similar to MRC-5 ~ see below ~) might be useful.

Science, Volume 257, 21 August 1992, page 1027.

Author: Dr Leonard Hayflick.

Extract

In his editorial "Fetal tissue research" (26 June p 1741) Daniel I. Koshland, Jr, says that reserarch on the use of fetal tissue "could lead to the development of cell lines or drugs that could be the basis of large-scale therapy." In face, normal human fetal cell strains have been used in precisely this way inthe United States since 1962. Thirty years ago, my colleagues and I reported that a poliomyelitis vaccine produced in such cells was both safe and efficacious. Our human fetal cell strain, WI-38, and similar strains derived from surgical abortions are used in the United States for the production of vaccines against poliomyelitis, rubella, adenoviruses and rabies."

Journal. American Society of Microbiologist, Vol 48, No 3, 1982, pg 122,

About Our members, Leonard Hayflick.

Extract: "He proved experimentally that cultured normal fetal human cells are capable of reproducing only about 50 times, and then they die; cells from older donors age and die sooner. In the course of his studies in 1962, Dr. Hayflick isolated a normal human cells strain (WI-38) which exhibits the Hayflick likit. This strain, which still grows in laboratories throughout the world, can support the growth of most known human viruses...Dr. Hayflicks WI-38 is also the basis for producing superior vaccines now used to inoculate millions of people against polio, measles, German measles, adenoviruses, mumps and rabies."

I have in my hand the Merck Sharp and dohm package insert from an MMR II vaccine given in 1991 (still used today). At the top it says that "live attenuated rubella virus grown in human diploid cell (WI-38) culture, with two reference, 1 and 2.

Ref 1 = Plotkin S.A. et all. "studies of immunisation with living rubells virus: Trials in children with a strain cultured from an aborted fetus. Am J, Dis Children 110: 381 - 389, 1965.

the MMR used today is still cultured from Wi-38, and as far as I know, that is still, as described "from an aborted fetus"

MRC-5 is another "human diploid tissue" which is also from an aborted fetus, and of the vaccines we use, the following also use MRC-5:

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/dat.../havrixinj.htm

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/dat...rilirixinj.htm

MMR II continues to use aborted fetal tissue - see bottom under Action

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/dat...m/mmriiinj.htm

Havrix - Hepatitis A is also on MRC-5
http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/dat.../havrixinj.htm

Twinrix, a Hepatitis B and A combo is also on MRC-5

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/dat...twinrixinj.htm

Regarding Varivax the following may be of interest:

VARIVAX 1995 data sheet, Merck & Co., Inc. No 7779300:

“…VARIVAX is a preparation of the Oka/Merck strain of live, attenuated varicella virus. The virus was initially obtained from a child with natural varicella, then introduced into human embryonic lung cell cultures adapted to and propagated in embryonic guinea pig cell cultures, and finally propagated in human diploid cell cultures (WI 38). Further passage of the virus for varicella vaccine was performed at Merck Research Laboratories in human diploid cell cultures (MRC-5) that were free of adventitious agents...”

“…Each 0.5 ml dose contains the following: a minimum of 1350 PFU (plaque forming units) of Oka/Merck varicella virus when reconstituted; approximately 25 mg of sucrose; 12.5 mg hydrolysed gelatine; 3.2 mg sodium chloride; 0.5 mg monosodium L-glutamate; 0.45 mg of sodium phosphate dibasic; 0.08 mg of potassium phosphate monobasic; 0.08 mg of potassium chloride; residual components of MRC-5 cells including DNA and protein; and trace quantities of sodium phosphate monobasic; EDTA; neomycin, and fetal bovine serum. The product contains no preservative."

J Pediatrics 1995;127:518-25:

“…The nearly 2 ug of unmodified mammalian DNA in each dose of Varivax exceeds that present in any other approved childhood vaccine”

another extract - they studied the MRC-5 line:

“…generally accepted upper limits for chromosomal abnormalities. A clonal 7;12 chromosomal translocation in the MRC-5 cells used to produce some lots of Varivax exceeded these limits for structural abnormalities. To evaluate the theoretical concerns raised by this observation Merck undertook a comprehensive assessment of MRC-5 (aborted foetal) cells to document that they were not tumorigenic. MRC-5 cells from the cell banks used to produce vaccine
(1) did not produce tumours when injected into nude mice
(2) reached senescence normally, and
(3) did not exhibit a malignant phenotype.

Moreover, cells bearing the 7;12 translocation did not proliferate preferentially during the lifetime of the cell line in comparison with MRC-5 cells lacking the translocation. No human disease associated with abnormalities involving a 7;12 translocation has been reported. Outside experts concurred with the FDA’s assessment that the risk of MRC-5 DNA’s inducing a malignant transformation in vaccinees under the condition of vaccination was exceedingly low”


Here is a description of exactly what these cells are:

for those who didn't know how to get around the search on the link provided, here is the description of MRC-5 and the direct link so that you can confirm that MRC-5 is human fetal cells from a 14 week fetus.

http://phage.atcc.org/cgi-bin/search...171&text=MRC-5


IRR-MRC-5 [ATCC X-55; ATCC X55; irradiated MRC-5]
Depositors: J.P. Jacobs
Tissue: lung; fibroblast
Morphology: fibroblast
Comments: These cells are provided to be used as feeder cells to support the growth of other cells.
They have been irradiated and will not replicate.
It is recommended that the feeder cells be plated 24 hours before use.
The cells will begin to deteriorate in 2 to 3 weeks after plating.
Once the feeder cells have attached, the culture medium may be changed to accommodate the cells to be supported.
Age Stage: 14 weeks gestation
Ethnicity: Caucasian
Gender: male

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


That enough for you?

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#4 of 44 Old 03-30-2005, 09:54 AM
 
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This is a religious site focusing on this issue-good information:

www.cogforlife.org
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#5 of 44 Old 03-30-2005, 01:49 PM
 
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tons of relevant info. Thanks for the links.

and then one offtopic comment that had me giggling:

Quote:
(1) did not produce tumours when injected into nude mice
What about the clothed mice ? They left out an entire control group.

sorry...I'm operating on about four hours sleep ...it sounded funny to me.
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#6 of 44 Old 03-30-2005, 03:51 PM
 
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LOL Yeah, those darn clothed mice should report them for discrimination.
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#7 of 44 Old 03-30-2005, 05:58 PM
 
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Seems to me if you are "pro-life,anti-abortion,anti-choice", this is a clear way to claim a religious/philosophical/personal belief exemption.

Do not know why I had so many problems in Catholic School with my peers in the 1960's.

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#8 of 44 Old 03-30-2005, 05:59 PM
 
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Does the mother of this poor aborted fetus know that her child/fetus has provided the cells for this vaccine, and if so does she have a piece of the action$?

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#9 of 44 Old 03-30-2005, 11:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice
Does the mother of this poor aborted fetus know that her child/fetus has provided the cells for this vaccine, and if so does she have a piece of the action$?
Well, that I don't know. But from what I remember reading, her last name was Heler.

So if you read grown on 'Heler Cells', (might be Heller) that's what it is. Another way to hide the truth.
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#10 of 44 Old 04-02-2005, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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MT-- thanks for the info. I am speechless.
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#11 of 44 Old 04-02-2005, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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MT wrote:

the MMR used today is still cultured from Wi-38, and as far as I know, that is still, as described "from an aborted fetus"

HOw can I find out more about this and preferably citing something from the manufacturer, a medical or science research journal, FDA, etc...
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#12 of 44 Old 04-02-2005, 03:32 PM
 
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I know they are kept and cultured here . You have to dig through the site-quite technical. This place is right near me.
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#13 of 44 Old 04-03-2005, 08:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotmamacita
MT wrote:

the MMR used today is still cultured from Wi-38, and as far as I know, that is still, as described "from an aborted fetus"

HOw can I find out more about this and preferably citing something from the manufacturer, a medical or science research journal, FDA, etc...
Write to the manufacturer asking them to confirm that the MMR is still made on WI-38, and to confirm in writing, that WI-38 is still the same cell line as the original aborted fetus from which it was derived.

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#14 of 44 Old 04-08-2005, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow.
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#15 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 07:45 AM
 
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This is the official file for MRC-5 aborted foetal cells used in vaccine production.

http://www.atcc.org/common/catalog/n...tccNum=CCL-171
Quote:
Age: 14 weeks gestation
Gender: male
Ethnicity: Caucasian
Comments: The MRC-5 cell line was derived from normal lung tissue of a 14-week-old male fetus by J.P. Jacobs in September of 1966.
The cells are capable of 42 to 46 population doublings before the onset of senescence.



this is the official file for WI38 used in vaccine manufacture

http://www.atcc.org/common/catalog/n...atccNum=CCL-75
Quote:
Age: 3 months gestation fetus
Gender: female
Ethnicity: Caucasian
Comments: The WI-38 human diploid cell line was derived by Leonard Hayflick from normal embryonic (3 months gestation) lung tissue. [22194]
WI-38 cells have a finite lifetime of 50 plus or minus 10 population doublings with a doubling time of 24 hours. [22197]
This line was the first human diploid cell line to be used in human vaccine preparation. [26220]
The 8th passage ampule from which this freeze was derived was found to contain a bacterial contaminant (a micrococcus). The cell line was subsequently cured by several passages in the presence of antibiotics.
Growth of the cells is enhanced by addition of tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF alpha) to the medium.

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#16 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 07:53 AM
 
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http://www.*********/v/fetal.html

Quote:
Connaught (OPV) Aventis Pasteur MSD Ltd WI-38
Connaught (IPV) Aventis Pasteur MSD Ltd WI-38
Havrix (Hep A) (Hep A) Glaxo SmithKline
DIPLOVAX HDC 4.0 (Measles)
Eolarix (MR discontinued 1994) Glaxo SmithKline
M-M-R II (Rubella component) Aventis Pasteur MSD Ltd (RA27/3 strain) WI-38
Priorix (MMR) Glaxo SmithKline MRC5
Ervevax (Rubella) Glaxo SmithKline MRC5
Rabies Vaccine Aventis Pasteur MSD Ltd MRC5
Havarix (Hepatitis A) Glaxo SmithKline MRC5
Avaxim (Hepatitis A) Aventis Pasteur MSD Ltd MRC5
Poliovax (polio-E-IPV) Aventis Pasteur MSD Ltd MRC5
Varivax (Chickenpox) Merck

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#17 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 07:54 AM
 
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This list may not be up to date...

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#18 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 01:00 PM
 
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I'm going to post an updated list for Carla to archive.

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#19 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 01:11 PM
 
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Here's the current list I have for vaccines that contain fetal tissues:
Disease
Vaccine Name
Manufacture
Cell line (human fetal)


Polio
Poliovax
Aventis-Pasteur
MRC-5

Measles, Mumps, Rubella
MMR II--Merck & Co.--RA273 and WI-38

Measles-Rubella
Biavax II--Merck & Co.--RA 273 and WI-38

Rubella only
MR-VAX--Merck & Co.--RA 273 and WI-38

Rabies
Imovax--Vantis-Pasteur--MRC-5

Hepatitis A
Hivrax--AlaxoSmithKline--MRC-5
Vaqta--Merck & Co.--MRC-5

Hepatitis A-B combo
Twinrix--GlaxoSmithKline--MRC-5

Chickenpox
Varixax--Merck & Co.--WI-38 and MRC-5

Smallpox
Acambix 1000--Acambis--MRC-5

So the fetal cell lines are:
RA273
WI-38
MRC-5



For more information on the questionable content of vaccines:

Some vaccines contain tissue from an aborted fetus
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils...s_vaccines.htm

http://www.cogforlife.org/fetalvaccines.htm

http://www.dgwsoft.co.uk/homepages/v...ternatives.htm

http://www.catholicdoctors.org.uk/CM...ves_to_mmr.htm

http://www.dgwsoft.co.uk/homepages/v...svaccines.html

***I got that information from the package inserts of the vaccines (I have links for them all in another thread--"links needed" or something to that affect--it was about a week ago--if you really can't find the links via the search option here or by googling the vaccine name with the words "package insert" then I'll post the specific PDF links to the package inserts***
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#20 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 01:22 PM
 
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it says "cultured in human diploid cells" right in the package inserts

Hep A: http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_havrix.pdf

varicella: http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_...varivax_pi.pdf

MMR: http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_.../mmr_ii_pi.pdf

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#21 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 01:25 PM
 
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mrsfatty - thank you, and for the sake of accuracy:

The Hep A vax is Havrix, not Hivrax; and the CP is Varivax.

My list says Acambis 1000, not Acambix; but if you have the pkg insert I'll defer to you.

And don't forget the ProQuad (MMR + chickenpox), Zostavax (shingles), and the new vaxes for Ebola, HIV, and Flu that contain AFCL.


I've also posted a list & a link in the "Can we have a sticky?" thread.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsfatty
Rubella only
MR-VAX--Merck & Co.--RA 273 and WI-38
The Rubella-only vax is Meruvax II. MR VAX is Measles-Rubella.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#23 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 01:38 PM
 
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according to focus on the family (an organization that is fairly prolife and fairly pro-vax) it was one fetus. and while they all thecnically contain fetal tissue they are not constantly rounding up the bodies of babies to make more vaccine.

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#24 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 01:39 PM
 
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great thread - well as far as being informed. the information itself is sick IMO. But thank you - I just forwarded it on to some friends.
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#25 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 01:48 PM
 
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Focus on the Family is wrong. It is not just one single fetus. Twenty four were tried and eliminated before they found the ones they could use. Women were told to abort their babies IN CASE of rubella. It wasn't necessary since the Japenese proved you could get a perfect sample of the rubella virus from swabbing the throat of an infected person.
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#26 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 01:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka
according to focus on the family (an organization that is fairly prolife and fairly pro-vax) it was one fetus. and while they all thecnically contain fetal tissue they are not constantly rounding up the bodies of babies to make more vaccine.
Perhaps not, but that mother was supposedly coerced into the abortion so that the fetal cell lines could be specifically used to produce the MMR vax.

It's all bad, IMO.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#27 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 01:56 PM
 
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During the Rubella Epidemic of 1964, some doctors advised exposed pregnant women to abort their children. The resulting virus strain developed was known in the science world as RA/27/3. Where R=Rubella A=Abortus 27=27th fetus tested 3=3rd Tissue explant. There were 26 abortions prior to finding the "right" species with the active virus. (This was absolutely unnecessary as the Japanese proved by swabbing the throat of an infected child in order to obtain the virus.) The vaccine was then cultivated on the lung tissue of yet another aborted infant WI-38. WI-38 (Wistar Institute 38) was taken from the lung tissue of an aborted female infant at 3 months gestation in the 1960's. a second human cell line, MRC-5 was derived from a male at 14 weeks gestation in the 1970's. They were used to cultivate the weakened virus strains of several diseases to produce immunizations. These two human cell lines cultivated in the lab continue to provide an ongoing source for many widely used childhood vaccines.
Quote:
More disturbing is the pharmaceutical industry's latest trend to begin using a new fetal cell line named PER C6, created by Dutch pharmaceutical, Crucell, NV. This cell line was taken from the retinal tissue of an 18 week gestation baby, aborted because, according to Dr. Van Der Eb at recent FDA hearings, "the father was unknown and the woman wanted to get rid of the fetus". Dr. Van Der Eb went on to say, "PER C6 was made just for the pharmaceutical manufacturing of adenovirus vectors." He added, "I realize that this sounds a bit commercial, but PER C6 were made for that particular purpose."
Quote:
There are six commonly used vaccines: Polio, Rabies, Mumps, Rubella (MMR), Chickenpox and Hepatitis-A all of which were propagated from the lung tissue of two aborted babies, one male, one female. Of these, three have NO ALTERNATIVE SOURCE: Rubella (MMR-Measles, Mumps, Rubella), Chickenpox and Hepatitis-A. It is not that the pharmaceutical companies had to use aborted children as their source; they simply opted to do so. The United Kingdom was successful in obtaining alternatives for both Rubella and Hepatitis-A, but these products are not available in the United States



From
http://www.vaccinetruth.org/fetal_tissue.htm
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#28 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 03:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skellbelle
It's all bad, IMO.
Oh totally.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#29 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 04:04 PM
 
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There are six commonly used vaccines: Polio, Rabies, Mumps, Rubella (MMR), Chickenpox and Hepatitis-A all of which were propagated from the lung tissue of two aborted babies, one male, one female.
So my next question is, Where did the fetal cell lines for the Hep A & B vax, the shingles vax, the Ebola vax, the two new flu vaxes, the HIV vax, and the smallpox vax come from?

Maybe I don't really want to know.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#30 of 44 Old 01-19-2006, 04:24 PM
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A little off topic, but if you didn't know about that then you also might not have heard about what they use the foreskin from circumcised boys for (although you have a huge post count so you've probably already seen this article):

http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...cumcision.html

Quote:
Parents should be wary of anyone who tries to retract their child's foreskin, and especially wary of anyone who wants to cut it off. Human foreskins are in great demand for any number of commercial enterprises, and the marketing of purloined baby foreskins is a multimillion-dollar-a-year industry. Pharmaceutical and cosmetic companies use human foreskins as research material. Corporations such as Advanced Tissue Sciences, Organogenesis, and BioSurface Technology use human foreskins as the raw materials for a type of breathable bandage.10
I was shocked when I heard about this, and shocked again when I heard about the vacc's. : :Puke
pumpkinsmama is offline  
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