How do you analyze evidence? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 108 Old 06-16-2005, 06:55 AM
 
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As they used to say in public meetings, "Hear hear!!" I sooooooo agree with the above.

I think I am correct in saying that one of the most prestigious medical journals in the world, The Lancet of Britain, is proudly named after the two edged surgical instument which doctors used to use up until 100 or so years ago to open up the veins of gullible clients and bleed out a pint or two of their blood during fevers. It was the doctors sage advice to clients that this would do them the world of good and possibly save their lives by lowering the fever. In this way doctors inadvertently killed thousands upon thousands of people every year.

And as with puerperal fever, there never has been so much as an apology. No public acknowledgement of "Hey, we messed up bigtime!" It has all been swept under the carpet of history and people's short memories.

The medical profession or allopathy as I prefer to call their system of medical practice, is also guilty of using large amounts of mercury for all sorts of conditions, even though it cured nothing, and always poisoned recipients (sometimes to death). They extolled the virtues of mercury for many centuries, and well into the 20th century. Even up until the 1960s the most poisonous non-radioactive natural element on this planet -mercury- was being used for not a few medical conditions in hospitals and in general practice. Few people are aware of this. But I have a 1966 Black's Medical Dictionary which lists recommended uses for various medications with mercury as a major ingredient.

And then of course, we have the criminal use of mercury in many frontline vaccines right up to this day, with consequent autistic spectrum disorders and so on and so forth.

Do you think they could be honourable and responsible enough to admit they stuffed up? No, of course they couldn't. It is business as usual. (Of course there have been honourable exceptions ie. Prof. Robert Mendelsohn, Dr. Stephanie Cave, Russel Blaylock etc. )
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#92 of 108 Old 06-16-2005, 09:06 AM
 
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I thought this was a simple point: ERSsmom looked at a book. She found a factual error by the author throughout the book. She rejected the book.

Not sure I see the connection with pooperall fever. Are you saying she should trust this author anyway and believe everything else that is written in the book? IMO it is good to be more skeptical of a writer when he/she makes a blatant error and then repeats it.

ETA: Mercury stuff moved to appropriate thread.
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#93 of 108 Old 06-16-2005, 10:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Aquaduct
What we're talking about is wisdom really. Wisdom is the ability to grasp the truth, the eternal fact. The great spiritual master, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar said wisdom comes from knowing yourself, and observing the people around you. This is what I believe. This has been my experience.
Yes, yes, yes.

IMO this wisdom (I call it knowing) is eternal and beyond our "physical" minds. Not that our minds are physical but they are influenced by mass consciousness, conditioning and most importantly fear.

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#94 of 108 Old 06-16-2005, 09:13 PM
 
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Who is George Galloway? Isn't he that curmedgeonly English MP who's been accused of being Saddam Hussein's agent? What a hoot!
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#95 of 108 Old 06-16-2005, 11:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Aquaduct
Who is George Galloway? Isn't he that curmedgeonly English MP who's been accused of being Saddam Hussein's agent? What a hoot!
Yep, he's the one:

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“I told the world that Iraq, contrary to your claims did not have weapons of mass destruction. I told the world, contrary to your claims, that Iraq had no connection to al-Qaeda. I told the world, contrary to your claims, that Iraq had no connection to the atrocity on 9/11 2001. I told the world, contrary to your claims, that the Iraqi people would resist a British and American invasion of their country and that the fall of Baghdad would not be the beginning of the end, but merely the end of the beginning.


Senator, in everything I said about Iraq, I turned out to be right and you turned out to be wrong and 100,000 people paid with their lives; 1600 of them American soldiers sent to their deaths on a pack of lies; 15,000 of them wounded, many of them disabled forever on a pack of lies.
Geroge Galloway, Respect MP for Bethnal Green and Bow testifying at a US Senate hearing.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/galloway.html

My apologies to the OP for this OT post.

ETA: The man's a Scot, I am not sure he would appreciate being called English!

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#96 of 108 Old 06-17-2005, 12:34 AM
 
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Oh no uccomama, George Galloway is a very good illustration of what we are talking about here.

Someone they would like to make the world think is wrong, had it right.

How did he evaluate the evidence? (rhetorical statement)

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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#97 of 108 Old 06-17-2005, 09:28 AM
 
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The guy was a visionary. He obviously had a backbone and a mind of his own. No wonder Washington and Downing St. want to tarnish him.
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#98 of 108 Old 06-17-2005, 10:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Aquaduct
The guy was a visionary. He obviously had a backbone and a mind of his own. No wonder Washington and Downing St. want to tarnish him.
The man knows Iraq and the Middle East. He knew the truth because he took the time to find out for himself and not take the word of his fellow politicians. I don't think he was/is a visionary. MT, you are right, Galloway is an excellent example of what we are talking about in this thread!

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#99 of 108 Old 06-17-2005, 10:30 AM
 
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I was kind of joking Uccomama. No, he sounds like a man of principle.

By the way I liked what you said about the mind being outside of the physical. This is what I believe. We think by means of our brain, not with our brains. The brain is just a tool of our consciousness.
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#100 of 108 Old 06-17-2005, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Deborah, I really appreciate you sharing all that information. I had hoped this thread would be full of tips to help newbies find their way & help the rest of us use new strategies to delve deeper, but now that it's just going around in circles I think I'm done with it. Best of luck to everyone in finding the best solutions for your own families.
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#101 of 108 Old 06-17-2005, 12:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by amnesiac
That's pretty much the case with anything. So what's a newcomer to do - with so many untruths all the way around, how can they sort it all out? I don't think there are probably too many parents that would look at an assortment of conflicting information and assume that the one that is the sloppiest and least professional is most likely to be true.
If you want my opinion I think the answer lies beyond just researching vaccinations, although this is obviously what we are discussing in this forum. We are inundated with untruths in all aspects of our lives, and when you begin to realize this some sort of switch goes on and you begin to see all the deception and manipulation and those fakers are really easy to spot and you can laugh in their face. I realize this won't fly with you, because it isn't scientific.

It's back to the nebulous "knowing" which I said before is beyond mind and thinking.

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#102 of 108 Old 06-17-2005, 01:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Aquaduct
I was kind of joking Uccomama. No, he sounds like a man of principle.

By the way I liked what you said about the mind being outside of the physical. This is what I believe. We think by means of our brain, not with our brains. The brain is just a tool of our consciousness.
I believe Galloway is a man of principle too!

I tend to look at the brain as a intel processor. The mind/consciousness is the softwear program and is only as good as the information that is input into it. Knowing (true wisdom) is beyond the body/mind/subconcsious; which is very easy to manipulate, largely through fear.

Again, not much in the way of science to back this up. But going way OT, I thought the research done by a group of Russian scientists on the nature of DNA as a biological internet is very, very interesting. Here's an article, no doubt from a very dodgy website:

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/...cience/id/4161

The information is from the book Vernetzte Intelligenz by Grazyna Fosar and Franz Bludorf (ISBN 3930243237) which unfortunately is only published in German.

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#103 of 108 Old 06-17-2005, 11:04 PM
 
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I really relate to your comparison of the brain with a computer (an intel processor is a computer, isn't it?). And we download consciousness. That is why saying mantras and simply thinking of God can work. The thinking of an ideal brings the IDEAL or the Absolute more into our limited consciousness. A kind of downloading occurs. Ultimate Reality will reach out to us.

However we must go beyond thought if we want to reach into ultimate reality. To me this is the untying of a knot that unties all knots. The truth that allows us to know all truths.

This is why science has so many limitations. It is useful up to a degree on the material plane. But as quantum physics is showing us, the observer has an influence on outcomes. There is no such thing as objectivity. Thought or whirlpools of thought (Vritti) forever blind us, until we discipline our minds enough to go beyond them.

So with regard to vaccination, it really helps to realize how unobjective it is as a science. It is far from exact and in some ways to even argue as if it can be exact and verifiable defies wisdom. All outcomes are subject to the egos of the researchers concerned, their limited grasp of reality, their moral inconsistencies such as greed for status and money, their attachments, their conditionings etc. That is why when I analyze any "evidence" I try to be aware of all these variables.

In the final analysis the only "evidence" you can rely on is your own experience. We like to give so much weight to experts, but who is the expert? A mother knows her child so well, and her intuition is so often more accurate than a doctors for example. Go to an optomotrist to get yourself fitted for a pair of spectacles and we are impressed by a fancy machine which slides all these lens in front of our eyes. The "expert" slides all these different lens in front of us, but he is relying on our perceptions of our vision for finding the right lens!! Go out on the streets in India and you'll come across a stallholder hawking lots of used spectacles. He will try out lots of different glasses on until you find the right ones. The process is just the same, and the outcome just as accurate, and you could save yourself a great deal of dosh.
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#104 of 108 Old 06-17-2005, 11:47 PM
 
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However we must go beyond thought if we want to reach into ultimate reality. To me this is the untying of a knot that unties all knots. The truth that allows us to know all truths.
YES, YES, YES. I totally believe this is the case.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaduct
In the final analysis the only "evidence" you can rely on is your own experience. We like to give so much weight to experts, but who is the expert? A mother knows her child so well, and her intuition is so often more accurate than a doctors for example.


However, the problem is that most people are still very much manipulated both consciously and subconsiously, so are trapped in illusion and dominated by the mass program, which is basically fear. To really get to the "truth" one needs to connect to what you call ultimate reality. But then you get labeled crazy, or even worse, because you perceive the world differently.

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#105 of 108 Old 06-18-2005, 01:07 AM
 
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Yes Amnesiac, I think it is about time you fronted up. We must all have ideas of how we can grasp the truth of things. You give the impression that you see yourself as pretty scientific and objective. But we don't really know what your modus operandi is for evaluating evidence. Everyone has a plan, what's yours? Or will you just simply keep criticizing with that hint of leze-majesty?
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#106 of 108 Old 06-18-2005, 01:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Aquaduct
In the final analysis the only "evidence" you can rely on is your own experience. We like to give so much weight to experts, but who is the expert?

Exactly.

Amnesiac, I have just re-read this entire thread. Each of the posters have brought to this thread their own personal "strategies" as it relates to evalutating data/evidence, research, publications, websites, etc. and yet their answers are frustrating you ?????

Yes, "but who is the expert?" Who is the most credible? What is truth? What is the garbage? Is it the CDC? Is it Think Twice? Should I go to a website to help me evaluate? Should I use my common sense? Amnesiac - are you the expert in evaluating evidence? Am I? Is anyone here?

Bottom line: A thousand highly educated, highly respected, critical thinking medical professionals with lots of "credible" titles after their names could throw all the credible analyzed "evidence" in our faces and we still wouldn't vaccinate our kids.
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#107 of 108 Old 06-18-2005, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I’ve also included in this thread several of the other places I look and strategies I use. Maybe I didn’t type out a lecture detailing every minute detail – I didn’t feel that was necessary. This isn’t about me or anyone else lecturing, it’s about sharing ideas. If there’s something anyone wants me to elaborate on all you have to do is ask. If I weren’t comfortable with questions I wouldn’t ask so many myself.


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and yet their answers are frustrating you ?????
Not at all.


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Amnesiac - are you the expert in evaluating evidence? Am I? Is anyone here?
Who said anything about being an expert? Certainly not me! That’s the point of sharing – because NONE of us are experts.


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Bottom line: A thousand highly educated, highly respected, critical thinking medical professionals with lots of "credible" titles after their names could throw all the credible analyzed "evidence" in our faces and we still wouldn't vaccinate our kids.
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#108 of 108 Old 06-19-2005, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Uccomama, I think I understand more of what you mean & I can appreciate that.
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