Sodium Ascorbate - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 431 Old 02-04-2006, 08:09 PM
 
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#92 of 431 Old 02-04-2006, 09:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders
What is "ascorbate acid" if the label doesn't specify? Personally I take usually 2000mg of sodium ascorbate with rose hips each night (pill form) but also have some vit c powder that I put in smoothies for the boys and I (I have found I can tolerate 4000mg a day at least), but the label only says "ascorbate acid". I'm calling around town today to see if anyone carries sodium ascorbate, and if not, I'm breaking down and ordering it online.
I've never seen one with ascorbate acid. Here its always ascorbic acid.

You can make it sodium ascorbate by mixing equal quantities with sodium bicarbonate. I just think that mix tastes gross.

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Thanks! This forum rocks! (And MT, you never fail to amaze me with the amount of information you know and have taught yourself - I hope to have that much information in my head eventually.)
Well, when you get old, grey and saggy like me, you will know much more than I do now, becuase I only got the internet six years (minus four months) ago. You young things should be able to learn and apply at the speed of greased lightening, instead of having to look at various keyboard thingies and think "Now, what does that one do?"

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#93 of 431 Old 02-04-2006, 09:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chlobo
Any suggestions on how to get the vit c into a 2 year old? She doesn't eat a lot of soft foods I can mix it with.
Some little tough nuts won't take sodium ascorbate any other way than dry, straight off a spoon :
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#94 of 431 Old 02-04-2006, 10:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chlobo
Any suggestions on how to get the vit c into a 2 year old? She doesn't eat a lot of soft foods I can mix it with.
My kids love it in Tang or Lemonaide. Its the only thing we use Tang for.
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#95 of 431 Old 02-04-2006, 10:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by momto l&a
My kids love it in Tang or Lemonaide. Its the only thing we use Tang for.
Edited to add that now my 3.5 yo and 6yo can swallow so I just stuff capsules for them. The capsuels hold about 1 gram
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#96 of 431 Old 02-04-2006, 11:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by momto l&a
Edited to add that now my 3.5 yo and 6yo can swallow so I just stuff capsules for them. The capsuels hold about 1 gram



How did you teach your lil' one to swallow?? I would love for my 4 yr old to learn, and then he wouldn't have to take his probiotics in powder form :Puke


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Originally Posted by MT
Some little tough nuts won't take sodium ascorbate any other way than dry, straight off a spoon
Actually, that is how my 14m old takes his. I lick a finger, stick it in the powder and then put it in the inside of his cheek, tryingto bypass the tongue (which is hard when he is trying to lick my finger). I always have some bottled water available and as soon as I get it in him (if I hold him upside down his mouth opens automatically), he gets a swig of water.
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#97 of 431 Old 02-05-2006, 01:56 AM
 
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This is so useful. I've looked at the general health and wellness threads and it seems that most mamas there don't know as much as the nutrition goddesses that prowl around this forum.
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#98 of 431 Old 02-05-2006, 03:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
I've never seen one with ascorbate acid. Here its always ascorbic acid.
You are right - my fingers mistyped.

ETA: So the benefit of taking sodium ascorbate or mixing baking soda with ascorbic acid is to protect the stomach? Do I have that right? I mix it typically in smoothies (except for the pill form I take ... I'm not hip on swigging down a couple teaspoons of sodium bicarb with those), so I'm thinking it won't make much of a difference taste wise. But other than the stomach, why does it need to be done?

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#99 of 431 Old 02-05-2006, 01:53 PM
 
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Okay, now I gotta admit, I'm overwhelmed by trying to keep track of what all I and my kids need to be taking, in what form, how much of it, and where to get it.

I am ordering the Sodium Ascorbate powder from NOW and I can add that to my kids' and my juice. 50 mgs. per kilogram bodyweight in a child, and 100 mgs. per kilogram bodyweight in an adult, right?

Now, I need a multi. I need one that's kosher or vegan.

I think my kids probably need a multi, at least while I'm upgrading their diet. They're sort of resistant to change. The one they take now is the one the pedi prescribed and it has fluoride in it, which I've recently been given to understand is NOT a good idea. Bear with me here, I'm just starting with all this.

I take Acidophilus. This is a probiotic, right? I take 3 a day or so, in capsule form. Should I be giving this to my kids? What about to my nursing baby? Noone here is or has been on antibiotics recently.

Something else I"m missing? Other than making our diets better :. We're working on it...

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#100 of 431 Old 02-05-2006, 06:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders
You are right - my fingers mistyped.

ETA: So the benefit of taking sodium ascorbate or mixing baking soda with ascorbic acid is to protect the stomach? Do I have that right? I mix it typically in smoothies (except for the pill form I take ... I'm not hip on swigging down a couple teaspoons of sodium bicarb with those), so I'm thinking it won't make much of a difference taste wise. But other than the stomach, why does it need to be done?
Youre half way there. Yes, its to reduce the acidity, but it also is to provide the sodium ion.

Since I hope this will go in the archives, and thugh I've put this here before I'll put it again, since it does bear repeating...

Quote:
MT - I am in shock. Everyone in the health food store tells me that ester C is the best vit C because your body absorbes it slower so your body will take more vitamin c etc, etc....
That is incorrect. The physiology of ester c is that for you to get to bowel tolerance you will have to take twice as much, and the mechanics of that is that the calcium is sheared off of the ascorbate, but for the ascorbate to be absorbed the body utilises localised sodium from any source nearby, to split the ascorbate into two molecules, one which the body uses, and the other which is excreted. BUT, before the ascorbate is utilised, the body uses some of it to chelate out the calcium, which when free in the body is dangerous to the body.

Far from being absorbed slower, the reason you need MORE Ester C to get to bowel tolerance is that the body has to divert some ascorbate to get the calcium out, so less is able to be used by the body.

Furthermore, by dragging out sodium of the body to do the job it needs to do, if a person isn't eating salt hand over fist, you can become sodium deficient, which totally bombs the immune system. I know, because because of a mistake I made, I took Ester-C in high doses for 9 months, and my whole immune system crashed. I ended up having to salt my food for about three weeks. Urgh...

Quote:
I am glad that you mention about it. I have to really look into it becasue I am totally wrong
So what is the best vitamin C to take?
Sodium Ascorbate...

Quote:
I do like to take a lot of vit c

You said:
Never use Ester C, or calcium ascorbate, except, or unless there is NOTHING ELSE around, and do NOT use it long term. If you MUST use it, you will require about double what you'd need with sodium ascorbate, and if you don't salt your food, then you must if you use Ester C. But remember, if there is any possibility that cancer is an issue... excess calcium in the body makes cancer cells go rampant.
That's not the only reason to not use it though...

you can use ascorbic acid and bicarb, but I'm reluctant to do that, because it can mess with the stomach acidity. IMO its just better to get sodium ascorbate. Again, if you've got nothing else, then AA + sodium bicarb is better than a kick in the rump.

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#101 of 431 Old 02-05-2006, 06:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by My3Kids'Mama
Now, I need a multi. I need one that's kosher or vegan.

I think my kids probably need a multi, at least while I'm upgrading their diet. They're sort of resistant to change. The one they take now is the one the pedi prescribed and it has fluoride in it, which I've recently been given to understand is NOT a good idea. Bear with me here, I'm just starting with all this.
I think I'll start a 101 nutrition/immunology thread, okay?

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#102 of 431 Old 02-05-2006, 08:56 PM
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Wow! You mama's are veritible founts of info. It took me a good twenty minutes to read this thread.


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#103 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 01:56 AM
 
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MT - I'm going to order some SA online (because no one in this state seems to carry it : ). If it doesn't have bioflavonoids in it, do I then also need to get those? (From what I've been reading, they are important for the whole thing to work.)

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#104 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 02:12 AM
 
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I havent found a place to buy just bioflavonoids in the US.

My 3 kids, you may want to look at Rainbow light vitamins. Not sure if they are kosher though or not. I use their kids and prenatals
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#105 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 02:20 AM
 
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AmyD,

I have no clue how she learned. I gave her an empty gelatin capsule to chew on and she told me "I swallowed it, I swallowed it." So I gave her a capsule full of C and she swallowed that.

My oldest was 5 when she finally figured out how to swallow. For her it was those pearls of probiotics. They are really small and easy to swallow.

The capsules I stuff with c are big, well huge for a 3.5 yo
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#106 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 02:48 AM
 
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Usually places that sell SA online will have bioflavinoids in powder form, and yes, I prefer to put bioflavinoids with my SA, because they are co-factors.

If people want a tablet form more convenient for travelling... a 1 kg bag of white powder might set off some hysterics don't you think? then I use a brand called Natural Factors (Canada) 100% natural fruit chews C 500 mgs one....

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#107 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 02:49 AM
 
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momto l&a said:

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I havent found a place to buy just bioflavonoids in the US.
My local health food store has just Bioflavonoids for sale. I didn't buy them, so at the moment I can't remember the name brand, but I will check later this week and get back to you. Oh, and I'm in California.

Also, the same store didn't have Sodium Ascorbate on the shelf, but when I asked for it they ordered it from NOW for me, $8.95 for 8 oz. Then 2 weeks later I saw a different brand of SA on the shelf. So, if your hfs carries NOW products, they most certainly should be able to order SA for you.

ETA: Maybe I'm taking back the Bioflavonoids statement, because when I searched the NOW website, and found their Bioflavonoids product, the ingredients actually read:
Vitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid) 100 mg 167%
Citrus Bioflavonoids (37% Total Bioflavonoids as Hesperidin) 1.4 g †
Rutin 100 mg †

Pretty sneaky if you ask me 'cause the front label just says Bioflavonoid Caps.
I'll search on though.
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#108 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 02:55 AM
 
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Edited to add as my brain must be shot tonight. Mountain Chick, I look forward to seeing what brand the bioflavonoids are. thanks

I order SA from Bronson as they have the best price I have seen.

Speaking of Bronson they are going to have a buy one get one free in November for vitamin C

Bronson also has SA in tablet form.
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#109 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 03:08 AM
 
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Hmmm Swanson has a bioflavonoid complex
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#110 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 03:27 AM
 
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I just bought these:

Citrus Bioflavonoids, CL-7334
Country Life, 1000 mg,
250 Tablets

from iherb.com while I was buying S.A. powder. I'm thinking of getting the little pestel (sp?) thingy to grind them up and add to the SA powder when we take it, instead of having another pill to swallow (I'm beginning to realize that I live on various pills! ).

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#111 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 04:27 AM
 
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and that's the point. We shouldn't have to. That in itself makes me grumpy.

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#112 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 05:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
Usually places that sell SA online will have bioflavinoids in powder form, and yes, I prefer to put bioflavinoids with my SA, because they are co-factors.

If people want a tablet form more convenient for travelling... a 1 kg bag of white powder might set off some hysterics don't you think? then I use a brand called Natural Factors (Canada) 100% natural fruit chews C 500 mgs one....

the Natural Factors - 100% natural fruit chews C500mgs? so this is sodium ascorbate? Is this the product - Vitamin C 500mg NATURAL FRUIT CHEWS ( 180's ) Passionfruit/Peach/Mango ?
I went to the health food store and asked for chewables and they said that they have only powder. I will be traveling in a few months so I would like to get the chewable. I don't want to have any problems with the Custom especially that I am traveling with small baby and like you said, the powder could look really strange
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#113 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 05:42 AM
 
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Yes that's the one. I like that one best, but the kids prefer the blueberry, raspberry and Boysenberry, but they are more acid to me..., natural factors is a mix of sodium ascorbate and ascorbic acid, but not only does it have citrus bioflavinoids, it has hesperidin biolflavinoids, rosehips, rutin and silica, so in terms of a mix its the most reasonable of any tablet that I've found.

And I don't get grumpy looks from customs with it.

The funnist I had with "powder" was coming back from my embroidery scholarship. We transfer design onto embroidered foundations with shell powder which comes in small ziplock plastic bags with inscrutible Japanese Kanji on them.

Which can cost the unwary traveller a few hours in a chilly bin while they check to see that it's not something erstwhile...

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#114 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 12:08 PM
 
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Besides affecting stomach acidity and to provide the sodium ion, is there any other reason why ascorbate acid is not recommended? And why is stomach acidity so important (other than it breaks down our food)...to prevent ulcers, etc? If my children seem to be tolerating the ascorbic acid I give them daily, should I still switch to sodium ascorbate? For example, my oldest son (almost 6 yo and 67 pounds), receives approx. 3,000 mgs. of C daily when healthy and we up it when he is sick to about 6,500 to bowel tolerance. He takes a host of other supplements and eats 95% organic......am I killing his stomach? If he doesn't seem bothered by it is it because the damage hasn't been done yet (as in I would be seeing physical symptoms to gauge from), or because he likely is receiving the balance he needs of baking soda/sodium ion in his diet? I believe you said equal ratios. 1 part ascorbic acid to 1 part sodium bicarbonate? I believe he receives his sodium ion needs via iodine and calcium citrate. Is there a balance (ratio) equation for sodium ions in relation to the appropriate doses of ascorbic acid, and bicarbonate?

DC
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#115 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 02:35 PM
 
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Ok, I have SA in my cart to purchase. What I have here is calcium ascorbate and I understand that is not what i want. Am I reading that my kids also need bioflavonoids?? I can't find a bioflavonoid powder. Would it be better to buy the Natural Factors fruit chews for my kids and crush the tablets (dont want to ruin teeth) since it had bioflavonoids?

Thanks!!!
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#116 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 03:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara
Never use Ester C, or calcium ascorbate, except, or unless there is NOTHING ELSE around, and do NOT use it long term. If you MUST use it, you will require about double what you'd need with sodium ascorbate, and if you don't salt your food, then you must if you use Ester C. But remember, if there is any possibility that cancer is an issue... excess calcium in the body makes cancer cells go rampant.

That's not the only reason to not use it though...
Sorry to be getting in on the end of this - I haven't read the whole thread (LOTS of info!!) but I wanted to ask this because I keep forgetting. What's wrong with using Ester C? In Prescription for Nutritional Healing by Phyllis and James Balch, they recommend Ester C highly...

Quote:
Esterified vitamin C (Ester C) is a remarkably effective form of vitamin C, especially for those suffering from chronic illnesses such as cancer and AIDS. It is created by having the vitamin C react with a necessary mineral, such as calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium or zinc. This results in a form of the vitamin that is nonacidic and that contains vitamin C metabolites identical to those produced by the body. Esterified vitamin C enters the bloodstream and tissues four times faster than standard forms of vitamin C because it moves into the blood cells more efficiently and also stays in the body tissues longer. The levels of vitamin C in white blood cells achieved by taking esterified vitamin C are four times higher than those achieved with standard vitamin C. Further, only one-third as much is lost through excretion in the urine.
I was at both the pharmacy and the health food store today and I ended up getting the non-acid (Ester C? I don't even know. I'm in a new country and there's a new language and I'm never really sure about what I'm getting ) because I was so confused - I had forgotten which one you recommended, and I actually even forgot what the book recommended.

Anyway, enough of my going on and on. I'm sorry if this was already answered in the thread.. I'm going to go back and try to read it.

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#117 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 03:55 PM
 
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Emergen-C is potassium ascorbate. It is good during labor .

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#118 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 06:55 PM
 
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That is incorrect. The physiology of ester c is that for you to get to bowel tolerance you will have to take twice as much, and the mechanics of that is that the calcium is sheared off of the ascorbate, but for the ascorbate to be absorbed the body utilises localised sodium from any source nearby, to split the ascorbate into two molecules, one which the body uses, and the other which is excreted. BUT, before the ascorbate is utilised, the body uses some of it to chelate out the calcium, which when free in the body is dangerous to the body.

Far from being absorbed slower, the reason you need MORE Ester C to get to bowel tolerance is that the body has to divert some ascorbate to get the calcium out, so less is able to be used by the body.
Can this be translated into Dumb for me??
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#119 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 07:16 PM
 
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If I take all this myself, it will get to my cutie patootie through my breast milk, correct? He's only 3 months old.
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#120 of 431 Old 02-06-2006, 08:23 PM
 
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