whooping cough and Vitamin C - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 16 Old 09-18-2004, 12:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hello.

I have an unvaccinated 5 year old daughter and there is a whooping cough outbreak in my area. I've done a ton of research and have learned alot, in addition, from the archives on pertussis in these forums. I'm wondering, there's alot of info here about treating pertussis with Vitamin C. But a couple of naturapaths I know have mentioned that saturation levels of vitamin C prevent pertussis because that much C can kill the bacteria. You give Vitamin c (sodium ascorbate powder) to the child to the level of bowel tolerance.

Has anyone had any experience with this? I'm finding it a bit scarey -- though not as frightening as whooping cough!

Thanks!
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#2 of 16 Old 09-18-2004, 04:40 PM
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Disclaimer:
"I am not a Dr, nor do I play one on TV. I rarely can tell my bumm from a hole in the ground so you may want to judge what I say accordingly."

Having said that....You may be interested in the book Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, & Toxins by Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD

p 116:
Quote:
Otani (1936) found that pertussis bacteria seemed to be especially susceptible to the effects of vitamin C in the test tube, with high enough dose having a killing, bactericidal effect. It was also demonstrated that a culture of pertussis bacteria in which vitamin C had been added possessed a "strongly reduced" infectivity in test animals.
P118
Quote:
The bacteria causing pertussis can be killed in culture by vitamin C, and the effects of the pertussis toxin also appear to be lessened by vitamin C....

...adequate regular dosing of vitamin C should prevent pertussis from ever being contracted.
If I recall correctly, there are sticks that you can use to show if you are getting enough C for your body's needs. Excess C is spilled into the urine, so if there is C in the urine sample then you're getting more than you need.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Oh, and Welcome to the board!
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#3 of 16 Old 09-18-2004, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey Turquoise!

Thanks for your reply (and your welcome). The resource is very helpful. One great thing about having done all this web research is having found this Board.

Best,

Elena
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#4 of 16 Old 09-18-2004, 05:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elenavc
Hello.

I have an unvaccinated 5 year old daughter and there is a whooping cough outbreak in my area. I've done a ton of research and have learned alot, in addition, from the archives on pertussis in these forums. I'm wondering, there's alot of info here about treating pertussis with Vitamin C. But a couple of naturapaths I know have mentioned that saturation levels of vitamin C prevent pertussis because that much C can kill the bacteria. You give Vitamin c (sodium ascorbate powder) to the child to the level of bowel tolerance.

Has anyone had any experience with this? I'm finding it a bit scarey -- though not as frightening as whooping cough!

Thanks!
The primary function of Vitamin C is not to "kill" bacteria. Certainly it inhibits them, but the main action in any toxin-mediated disease (that is what whooping cough is referred to as ~ a toxin mediated disease ~ ) is to neutralise the toxin, to support the liver so that when the liver is "de-fragging" the endotoxin (to use a computer term) the liver works much more efficiently.

Vitamin C also puts petrol into the tank of macrophages and phagocytes, and in vitro increases their activity levels. Therefore in the body, it should increase the effectiveness of the immune system in general, as well as dealing with the specifics of the toxin issue, and inhibiting the bacteria itself.

Perhaps if you explain this to the naturopath, she can make sure she understands the concepts and is better able to help her future patients.

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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#5 of 16 Old 09-19-2004, 10:33 AM
 
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welcome elena-
i have 3 kids who are pertussis free for about 2 weeks now,
we did lots of vit c for the 9 abd 5 year old and really they never got too sick. my, now 5 month old was a different story- at 2 months it was scary as all heck. i did not give him vit c because of his age.
also all three got acupuncture during the illness....
i havent got to much infi0for you but wanted to show my support and ask you to keep us posted.........
good luck
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#6 of 16 Old 09-21-2004, 07:40 PM
 
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Love2all...

who told you you couldn't give your five month old vitamin C?

Had I been in your position (and I've had many friends who have been, and have supervised them because they were scared) I would have been not only dosing myself up hugely with vitamin C, but would have been using about 1 gram per day, split over waking hours.

It's easy enough to do. You dissolve it in breast milk, and using a dropper get it into them either when they are feeding anyway, or dribble it into the inside of the cheek.

You don't squirt it in their mouths in case they inhale it. That would trigger the vagus nerve.

Any baby, of any age with whooping cough, is able to be given vitamin C.

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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#7 of 16 Old 09-22-2004, 06:12 PM
 
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hi all...

we're currently dealing with an outbreak of pertussis and i was wondering if anyone could answer my two questions...

first, does vitamin c help even in the late stage of the disease?

second, how much should one take? what does *to bowel tolerance* mean? my kids are just finishing their mandatory abx from the health dept. and have diarrhea from that alone. how can i know approximate safe levels?

ok, i've got three questions i guess. what other herbs, vitamins or supportive comfort measures have you all heard of or used in dealing with this bug? i've got a 4 yo boy and 2 yo girl with pos. cultures and the rest of our tests are yet to come back (mom, dad and 6 yo girl.)

TIA!
lisa
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#8 of 16 Old 09-23-2004, 02:16 PM
 
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montezuma-nak-
noone ever said not to give vit c - i made the choice because i did not like the preservatives in the country life baby vit c drops-- just our personal choice.
good luck lunamama, a hug to your little ones- and to you too!!!
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#9 of 16 Old 09-24-2004, 03:41 AM
 
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Love2all,

If there is a next time, simply dilute sodium ascorbate powder in breast milk = no preservatives.

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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#10 of 16 Old 09-24-2004, 09:25 AM
 
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Home remedy for pertussis straight from a homeopathic meeting I attended last night.

This is from Dr. Kneipp:

Saturate a t-shirt in clod water. Put it on the child. Put two warm sweaters over the child and put him to bed for about half an hour.

Do that twice a day and the whooping cough will be gone within a week.

Anyone ever heard of that?

The Dr. who read it from Dr. Kneipp's book, (Dr. Loibner) swears by it. He said he has advised many parents to treat their child in that way for all respiratory problems and has always had positive results.

The discussion last night was called "Vaccines - Blessing or Risk?" By Dr. Johann Loibner from www.aegis.at

75 people attended and this in a very small village in central Europe.

Things are really happening here...
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#11 of 16 Old 09-24-2004, 10:55 AM
 
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That remedy reminds me of what my mom used to do for sore throats. She would wrap a cold cloth around our neck and cover it with a warm piece of flannel. I think this helped, but I can't remember for sure. Forty + years ago now!

Nana
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#12 of 16 Old 09-24-2004, 04:47 PM
 
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Hi all-
My dd has pertussis last fall. It is scary but, you will get through it. She coughed so bad that she would vomit.
Yeas- vit c does help even in laste stages of pertussis. I did'nt start giving my dd vit c until she had it for a couple week. I gave her as much as I could get in her. Even thought you feel like you are giving them alot, it probably is not enough. You should give at least 100 mg per month of age.
I did start giving kids chewable vit c, but she was taking it at least every hour and by the end of the day it still was not enough. So I got some adult chewable vit c and after that I sarted seeing improvment in her coughing in a couple days.
She still coughed for a few more weeks but the intensity of the cough went way down. She never took antibiotcs, only vit c and echinacea/goldenseal.
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#13 of 16 Old 09-25-2004, 02:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Lunamama

I hope my reply isn't too late for you. If so, for others or for future reference.

The Bowl tolerance method basically means you take a day (or part of a day) to give your child a small dose (1/4 tsp) of the C in juice every half hour to an hour until they have a loose stool. The amount of C it took them to get there is just past tolerance. So, you cut back 1/4 tsp and that's saturation. Each person has a different level as others have mentioned. And, each of us will tolerate more when we're sick. Hope this helps.

Elenavc

Quote:
Originally Posted by lunamama3
hi all...

we're currently dealing with an outbreak of pertussis and i was wondering if anyone could answer my two questions...

first, does vitamin c help even in the late stage of the disease?

second, how much should one take? what does *to bowel tolerance* mean? my kids are just finishing their mandatory abx from the health dept. and have diarrhea from that alone. how can i know approximate safe levels?

ok, i've got three questions i guess. what other herbs, vitamins or supportive comfort measures have you all heard of or used in dealing with this bug? i've got a 4 yo boy and 2 yo girl with pos. cultures and the rest of our tests are yet to come back (mom, dad and 6 yo girl.)

TIA!
lisa
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#14 of 16 Old 09-29-2004, 01:54 AM
 
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how is everyone's babies doing?

my dd came home with a note today that said a case of whooping cough was diagnosed in the morning preschool class. She is in the afternoon class in the same room with the same teacher. My kids are unvaxed and she is 4.5, ds is 18mo.

I have vit c kid vitamins (kangavites?) I can start on, but what about emergen-c type of drink... it has 1000mg vit c in it.

also, for my ds, I recently discovered that he seems to get a rash on his penis and bottom when I give him oj. No surprise there, his big sis was the same way. But how do I get vit c in him if he is reacting to citrus?

does anyone know if we can dodge this? Is there any way we can get out of getting it or are we going to have to face this for sure.

thanks!
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#15 of 16 Old 09-29-2004, 04:55 PM
 
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also I was told that this is an illness that you have to be right in the line of fire to contract. Although it is airborne it does not live in air it has to be transmitted via coughing... is that right?
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#16 of 16 Old 09-29-2004, 05:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turquoise
Disclaimer:


Having said that....You may be interested in the book Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, & Toxins by Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD
I was just going to post the same info :LOL

That book is very worth having IMO.
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