Pertussis vaccine does NOT prevent transmission? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 01:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, I asked this in another thread, but then I figured I'd just start a new one. Can anyone show me the links/evidence/research to support the statement "The Pertussis vaccine does NOT prevent transmission" ?
People always seem to be saying that, but I can't find the literature on it. And does anyone know where can I look to find out what other vaccines do not prevent transmission?

Also, if that is true, that means that they are just lying to everyone with the "I did it for Sophia" campaign?

Thanks!

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#2 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 02:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Natural Mommy*J View Post
Okay, I asked this in another thread, but then I figured I'd just start a new one. Can anyone show me the links/evidence/research to support the statement "The Pertussis vaccine does NOT prevent transmission" ?
People always seem to be saying that, but I can't find the literature on it. And does anyone know where can I look to find out what other vaccines do not prevent transmission?

Also, if that is true, that means that they are just lying to everyone with the "I did it for Sophia" campaign?

Thanks!
I have never heard of the "I did it for Sophia" campaign.
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#3 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 02:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by aniT View Post
I have never heard of the "I did it for Sophia" campaign.
http://doitforyourbaby.com/

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#4 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 02:11 AM
 
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I have never heard of the "I did it for Sophia" campaign.
(it's one of my big pet peeves...)

it's the print/tv campaign to push the adult TDaP.

from sanofi pasteur's website:

Quote:
To protect your baby from pertussis, anyone who spends time with your baby should be protected from pertussis. Don't be shy about asking people if they've been immunized and make sure they understand how important it can be to the health of your baby.
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#5 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 02:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kidspiration View Post
(it's one of my big pet peeves...)

it's the print/tv campaign to push the adult TDaP.

from sanofi pasteur's website:
Oh well that is why I have never heard of it then. It's for the new vax. And I have TIVO and don't watch commercials. I also don't read mainstream magazines. They tend to irritate me.
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#6 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 02:16 AM
 
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Yes. You are being misled, imo.

Here's a link to a study that discusses (among other things) the fact that they believe that children (even young, recently vaccinated children) can be silent transmitters of pertussis.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol6no5/pdf/srugo.pdf

Quote (page 3 of 4: Conclusion first paragraph)bolding mine

Quote:
The effects of whole-cell pertussis vaccine wane after 5 to 10 years, and infection in a vaccinated person causes nonspecific symptoms (3-7). Vaccinated adolescents and adults may serve as reservoirs for silent infection and become potential transmitters to unprotected infants (3-11). The whole-cell vaccine for pertussis is protective only against clinical disease, not against infection (15-17). Therefore, even young, recently vaccinated children may serve as reservoirs and potential transmitters of
infection.
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#7 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 02:27 AM
 
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What about the a-celluar vaccine for pertussis?
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#8 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 02:30 AM
 
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I'm honestly not sure...this is the only one I could find on short notice..they kinda have them hidden away it seems like!
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#9 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 02:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by purplestraws View Post
What about the a-celluar vaccine for pertussis?
the acelluar pertussis vaccine is LESS effective... so I don't see how it could provide protection against transmission when the old one didn't...

Don't have time to search for links right now, but it's well known if you know what to look for and have the patience to search.

-Angela
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#10 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 02:45 AM
 
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Yah, even in the old, old, old studies (back when the DTaP was tested in Japan...oh in the late 80's/early 90's??) all the stuff said the a-cellular wasn't as "good" as the whole-cell (but was supposed to be "less reactive" and was supposed to halt the "brain-damage" scandal)...can't remember the specifics right off the top of my head though
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#11 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 02:51 AM
 
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Its good to see that written out so clearly. I have always suspected that since diseases come from germs and that vaccines don't really kill germs they just give you immunity (sometimes) that the idea of vaccinating yourself for other people just doesnt' make a whole lot of common sense.
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#12 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 03:05 AM
 
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I have always suspected that since diseases come from germs and that vaccines don't really kill germs they just give you immunity (sometimes) that the idea of vaccinating yourself for other people just doesnt' make a whole lot of common sense.
You know I NEVER thought about it that way. Wow, I am sllllow.

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#13 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 04:28 AM
 
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You know I NEVER thought about it that way. Wow, I am sllllow.
LOL. You're not slow. I mean it makes sense to me, but still I don't really understand how we have eradicated polio and smallpox if we haven't eradicated the germs, so obviously there is something there that I'm not quite getting.

It makes my head hurt.

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#14 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 05:12 AM
 
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LOL. You're not slow. I mean it makes sense to me, but still I don't really understand how we have eradicated polio and smallpox if we haven't eradicated the germs, so obviously there is something there that I'm not quite getting.

It makes my head hurt.

Polio hasn't been eradicated. It still affects millions of people.
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#15 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 05:27 AM
 
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Polio hasn't been eradicated. It still affects millions of people.
I stand corrected.

Why did I think it was eradicated? It seems like I have heard that a lot.
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#16 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 05:37 AM
 
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I stand corrected.

Why did I think it was eradicated? It seems like I have heard that a lot.
You don't hear about polio infection in the United States. At least not often. There were some secondary infections from the OPV a few years back and they did some testing in the Amish population.
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#17 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 11:15 AM
 
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Some vaccines do seem to prevent carriage. The three that definitely do not prevent carriage are Tetanus, Diptheria and Pertussis vaxes.
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#18 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 11:19 AM
 
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Some vaccines do seem to prevent carriage. The three that definitely do not prevent carriage are Tetanus, Diptheria and Pertussis vaxes.
But which ones DO? And what evidence do you have to show that Tetanus, Diptheria and Pertussis don't? And I'm not trying to start a fight- I'm still researching all of this!!!
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#19 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 11:31 AM
 
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But which ones DO? And what evidence do you have to show that Tetanus, Diptheria and Pertussis don't? And I'm not trying to start a fight- I'm still researching all of this!!!
See post #6 for a link.

The reason they don't prevent transmission is because they don't kill the bacteria that cause the disease. They make the body able to resist the toxin that the bacteria release. This toxin is what actually makes the person sick. This is also the reason for the claim that being vaxed will make your case of pertussis milder, because even if you don't get the full effect, total blockage of the toxin, you might get partial blockage and cough less and so on.

As to which vaxes do prevent transmission. This is a big research job. Off the top of my head, I would say Hib and Prevnar. The same ones that have the serotype replacement problems.

Varicella (CP) vax seems to prevent transmission, but also sometimes spreads CP. It also wears off rather quickly in the absence of circulating disease, so it will require frequent boosters.

So, a start at least.
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#20 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 11:34 AM
 
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But which ones DO? And what evidence do you have to show that Tetanus, Diptheria and Pertussis don't? And I'm not trying to start a fight- I'm still researching all of this!!!
Measles, Mumps, Rubella and Chickepox (when it works) should prevent transmission.

As should Hib and prevnar.

-Angela
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#21 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 11:43 AM
 
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Here's a thread on the the biology behind the DTaP and what's going on on a cellular level that explains why the vaccine doesn't result in herd immunity. (preventing transmission/infection)
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=555012

Also, this thread starts of talking about chickenpox, but at post 11, we switch to the pertussis vaccine and transmission:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...t=phagocytosis
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#22 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 12:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Measles, Mumps, Rubella and Chickepox (when it works) should prevent transmission.

As should Hib and prevnar.

-Angela
But which of these are live vaccines? Because a live vaccine can shed, right? So even if it sometimes prevents transmission, it can also infect people. So isn't it kind of six of one, half dozen of the other?

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#23 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 12:39 PM
 
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From the Adacel brochure:
http://www.adacel-locator.com/index....E&P=HowS_pread

While many adolescents and adults get a milder form of the disease, they can still pass it on to vulnerable infants (those who have not had a full series of vaccinations).2

It is unknown whether immunizing adolescents and adults against pertussis will reduce the risk of transmission to infants.3
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#24 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 12:50 PM
 
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But which of these are live vaccines? Because a live vaccine can shed, right? So even if it sometimes prevents transmission, it can also infect people. So isn't it kind of six of one, half dozen of the other?
Chickenpox is the only one out of those that probably infects others semi-regularly. Measles and mumps have never been documented to do that, and rubella only seems to when it's a mother who gets it (the vax) after having a baby, and it infects the baby.
The rotavirus vaccine is farily new, so no one knows for sure yet, but it probably sheds a LOT. Flumist infects others, but not terribly often.
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#25 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 01:09 PM
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How about looking at the website for the new pertussis vaccine?

http://doitforyourbaby.com/preventin....html#section2

Quote:
You and other members of your family may have been vaccinated against pertussis as children. But these vaccinations lose their ability to protect after about five to ten years. That means you are vulnerable to getting pertussis and spreading it to other people around you. That's why the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends a pertussis booster for everyone 11-64 years of age.
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#26 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 01:19 PM
 
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The dtap and tdap vaccines don't prevent pertussis 100% but they have been shown in a lot of research to make for less severity in cases of pertussis. So, yes, you could still pass it to an infant but the idea is that there is less pertussis with the vaccine and that cases are less severe. Dr. Sears says this much in his Vaccine Book. He also says pertussis is common but that it is milder due to the vaccine.


Polio has been eradicated in the USA. If I recall correctly, that Amish case was found to originate in another country and was brought back in to the USA.
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#27 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 01:30 PM
 
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Ugh. My post got deleted.

Okay, wasn't there a graph on the CDC that showed that polio was on a steady decline before the vaccine? So, really, did vaccines eradicate it?

Also, thanks to everyone for repeating info over and over. I'm sure this has been hashed over, but it really pays to keep repeating it...
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#28 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 01:52 PM
 
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Polio has been eradicated in the USA. If I recall correctly, that Amish case was found to originate in another country and was brought back in to the USA.
The Amish "case" was actually vaccine-derived polio virus, not the wild polio virus.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5441a6.htm
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#29 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 02:16 PM
 
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But which ones DO? And what evidence do you have to show that Tetanus, Diptheria and Pertussis don't? And I'm not trying to start a fight- I'm still researching all of this!!!
Tetanus isn't a communicable disease.
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#30 of 45 Old 12-08-2007, 02:19 PM
 
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Ugh. My post got deleted.

Okay, wasn't there a graph on the CDC that showed that polio was on a steady decline before the vaccine? So, really, did vaccines eradicate it?

Also, thanks to everyone for repeating info over and over. I'm sure this has been hashed over, but it really pays to keep repeating it...
The classification changed for Polio in about the 1960's after vaccine administration began. Coxsackie cases were removed for instance and the paralysis period was adjusted in order for it to qualify as poliomyelitis. So there were a bunch of "polio cases" that shouldn't have been considered. The before numbers weren't adjusted though so the populations aren't the same.
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