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-   HIB and Prevnar (http://www.mothering.com/forum/114-hib-prevnar/)
-   -   Can we talk a little about Hib? (http://www.mothering.com/forum/114-hib-prevnar/232521-can-we-talk-little-about-hib.html)

dharmama 01-03-2005 01:51 PM

My dd is 6.5 mo and has not had any vaxes. We are basically delaying until we feel confident in our decision one way or the other. I lean more towards not vaxing...DH, who works in public health (but also had a serious vax reaction as a baby), leans more towards selective/delayed vaxing.

At our 6 mo wbc our doc, who we have a good relationship with, brought up vaxes and asked if we have made a decision. I told him that we are leaning towards not doing any.

He didn't say much (We've had LONG conversations about this...I know he disagrees with not vaxing but he is respectful of our right to decide) except that he'd like me to consider
doing the Hib shot.

He said he has seen two 2 month old twins die from meningitis when he was a young doctor and that it really impacted him and gave him a healthy respect for the disease and the vax. (I didn't bother to ask for specifics...were they breastfed, full term, at home or in daycare, otherwise healthy babies etc.)

Our next apt is not until her one year check. So I told him I would research it further and make an apt between now and then if I wanted to do that vax.

I checked the archives here and there's nothing under Hib. I'm not really a numbers person so the "stats" don't really do it for me. I'm more of a emotional/feelings decision maker. I've read Romm, Cave, and Mendleson's books. I find they all have good info but none of them compel me in either direction.

Any one have any thoughts?

Thanks mamas.

~Erin

alegna 01-03-2005 02:00 PM

My thoughts on Hib were twofold- 1. There was no vax for it when we were kids and I don't remember it being a huge epidemic. and 2. The research shows that when you give Hib, THAT kind of meningitis goes down, but a different kind increases, leaving you with the same kinds of numbers.

-Angela

amnesiac 01-03-2005 02:34 PM

Hib stuf starts about halfway down:
http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/Y...-bacterial.htm

dharmama 01-03-2005 02:43 PM

Thanks for the link and personal story. That's the kind of info I find really helpful!!

hcsl 01-03-2005 03:16 PM

You've read the same books I have, and I was scared enough about Hib to say that that would be the vax I would allow for ds at his 4 month appointment. Unfortunately (said tongue in cheek), the ped's office was out of it and he never got it. At that time I was still a little bit wary of not vaxing (first child, normal mother worries) and family members were giving me all sorts of horror stories about my uncle with polio and my grandmother's cousin who had diptheria, so I caved and said I'd get ds one vax. He was exclusively breast fed and stays home, so I'm not sure why I agreed to that one- maybe because it seemed like the lesser of many evils... At any rate, ds is 18 months now and I'm so glad he didn't get the vax.

Isaac'smama 01-03-2005 03:58 PM

If I considered this one, I'll wait until a year because then they only need ONE dose to be considered "immune". Plus, I'm b/fing and from what I've read (in one of the books you mentioned), that b/f protects against HIB to a large extent. However with vaxing, I'm still fearful of that window of opportunity issue where kids are more likely to get the disease within a short period of time after they recieve the vax.

Plus, here is a link on b/f and HIB: http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Daily...astfeeding.htm

DesireeH 01-03-2005 07:54 PM

Personal story with no statistics coming...........

My friend has a 6 month little boy who is staying with her (not hers, the mother sucks). Anyways, he was just hospitalized for a month from meningitis. He had all his recommended vaccines which would mean he had hib at 2 and 4 months and still got meningitis (he is not breastfed either). He ended up with a blood transfusion. Then he is out of the hospital maybe a week and he gets his 6 month vaxes ( :mad ) and now he has a brain infection. I'd say skip it, it doesnt work and then on top of it if you do get it, your body has no immune system left to fight it off.

Gitti 01-03-2005 10:40 PM

Please read this about Prevnar

...and make a copy for your doctor!



Here is another interesting link.

dharmama 01-03-2005 10:56 PM

Thanks for the link Gitti! and

Desiree ~ Poor little guy!! ((( )))

suschi 01-04-2005 01:09 PM

No vax for hib was around when my first two were born, in fact, I never even heard of hib until a vax for it was offered to my 3rd child born in 1995.

Interesting that 2 month old babes were infected. I wonder if they were vaccinated, making them more susceptible to circulating infections. My first born was fine until her 1st round of shots, then came down with viral meningitis. I believe that vaccines skew the immune system making children catch much more than they would if they weren't vaxed.

My youngest is not vaxed at all, he turned 2 in Sept, and has been the healthiest to date of the 5.

The hand typed hand out for Hib that my dr gave me stated that children in daycare were more at risk for this infection. My baby was not in daycare and was breastfed, so he was not considered high risk, but our dr said they were advising it for all babies. If you haven't already requested the vaccine inserts for each and every vaccine your dr advises, please do so. You will probably find enough info there to make your decision.

alex-lynne 01-04-2005 01:19 PM

I felt that THE VACCINE GUIDE by Randall Neustader had a little more Hib info.
One of the side effects is increased risk of Hib meningitis after the shot...yikes that scared me enough to say no.
al

RiceMomma 01-04-2005 01:37 PM

I may be missing something, but while my vote is not to get this vax, I just wanted to clarify that the Hib and Prevnar are separate vaxes- Hib= Haemophilis influenzae type B and Prevnar= Strep pneumo. (not a big fan of prevnar either. )

Good luck in your decision, OP.

dharmama 01-04-2005 02:11 PM

Andrea ~ thanks for the clarification. i was wondering about that.

suschi 01-10-2005 02:49 PM

Some concerns about Prevnar

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol5no3/lipsitch.htm


http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/94/12/6571

Gitti 01-10-2005 08:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceMomma
I may be missing something, but while my vote is not to get this vax, I just wanted to clarify that the Hib and Prevnar are separate vaxes- Hib= Haemophilis influenzae type B and Prevnar= Strep pneumo. (not a big fan of prevnar either. )

Good luck in your decision, OP.
Gosh, I am glad someone is keeping us all straight!

Hib and breastfeeding


Hey but wait a minute, this article talks about both Hib and S.pneumonia in one vaccine. Which one is that? Not Prevnar? I am confused!

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/94/12/6571

amnesiac 01-10-2005 10:44 PM

No, 2 vaccines. RiceMomma was right. That article does talk about both types of bacteria though.

KatSG 01-11-2005 04:37 AM

And I posted about it here a lot, maybe they purge the archives.

Your post sounds so much like something I would have written last year. We were big fence sitters, too. I guess you could say we still are, she just hasn't been to the doctor in 5 months so it hasn't come up.

So, believe it or not, I can't remember how old she was when she had Hib. 3 or 4 months, maybe 5. I think we all had it. My dh had pink eye, I had itchy eyes and a runny nose, and dd got bad pink eye and a bad cold. Our NP cultured her eyes, that's how we got the diagnosis. I really think that if it weren't for the fact that she wasn't vaxxed, or if we were with another provider, she likely wouldn't have had the culture and we would have been sent home to give her Tylenol. I'd had these symptoms many times before, especially as a pre-teen, and I think it just goes around a lot without diagnosis.

It took a few weeks for her to get over it but she did. Even then, the NP said he'd like her to get that vax, because he saw a kid with epiglotitis once. I'm convinced providers tell you to get the vax for the disease they saw once that scared them. There's really no reason she should get it now that she's got some natural immunity to it.

DD is 15 mos old now, never vaxxed, still BF a little, and in a home daycare with one other kid. So, she's low risk, but she's also incredibly healthy. Dh gets respiratory infections all the time and I was waiting for her to get one, but she gets a few hours of sniffles and then is fine. It's pretty exciting to see my determination to not vax her pay off. (knock wood)

So, I say don't worry about it. It's not always the horrible disease they make it out to be.

gilnikche 01-11-2005 07:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatSG
And I posted about it here a lot, maybe they purge the archives.
Is this the thread you were referring to?

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=150709

RiceMomma 01-11-2005 10:05 AM

Gitti,

I didn't mean to be anal or anything. I don't want anyone coming here and dismissing information or thinking that the wise mommas on this board don't know what their talking about, or getting confused (although, I am often the confused one!) I just wanted to make sure it was clear what vax we were talking about. Probably doesn't matter, as most people don't know which vax is for what, or what their vaxing against.


stayathomecristi 01-11-2005 03:50 PM

Just a thought from another angle: if you allow them to give this vax, will that open the door for others? I think that sometimes providers try to wear us down by getting us to agree to "just one". Then again, many providers will look for any opportunity to vax--er visit, some "epidemic", or a case they just saw.

Don't know why that crossed my mind, but thought I'd share it.

Cristi

Electra375 01-11-2005 05:04 PM

Hib -- again a newer vaccine.
We didn't have this on the schedule when I was a child. If I didn't get the vaccine there is no way I'm letting my children get it. I had vaccines for typhoid, black plague, yellow fever, and other off the wall things. I can't believe my mother was so nieve, but wouldn't let me get small pox vaccine b/c of the scar... I was under 3 for all of this.

Did you know that if you wait until the child is 12 - 15 mo old, they only need one dose instead of one a 2, 4, 6 and 12-15 mo? This tid bit of information is in the fine print of the vaccine schedule put out by the CDC.

What Hib is suppose to prevent is so limited a strain, it isn't effective against all cases.

Hib was the one shot I didn't do w/ my 1st child b/c he was not at risk. Meaning I was a stay at home mom and he was not in a daycare environment. I caved in when I sent him to preschool, it was on the public school schedule even though it is not to be administered to children age 5 and over (it has since been removed from the school requirements).

My other children won't get this period. I'm not convinced it is necessary for my children.

KatSG 01-11-2005 09:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gilnikche
Is this the thread you were referring to?

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=150709
Yep. That was one of them.

milkmommaof2 01-15-2005 06:38 PM

I wish I read this thread before my ds 15 month check up yesterday
We are doing the delay/selective vax BUT yesterday I went in and I didn't want to get ANY vaxs!! Well my doc kind of lectured me since he is behind in his vaxs. He was due for the HIB and MMR, I def. am NOT getting the mmr until much later if at all so i went with the HIB I wish I would have just stuck to my guns and not gotten any!! My ds, well both of my sons actually always get ear infections!!

chicken 02-03-2005 03:03 PM

I was wondering about the pink eye and HIB connection. We had the same thing happen around here a couple of months ago. The doctor prescribed an antibiotic for the pink eye without seeing us. Is it possible that we really had HIB? If so, where would we stand now? Natural immunity or lowered? Confusing!

mamamoogs 02-04-2005 02:36 AM

Come to think of it not to long after my dd 's hib shot when she was two months old her eye got very gooping and teared alot for about a week so i called the ped and they said that it sounded like a blocked tear duct, and to apply warm compresses on it and message the corner well it wasnt working so they rx and an antibiotic ointment for us to put in her eye but we never did because after another day or so it cleared up and (knock on wood) we havent seen it happen again and that was three months ago, she hasnt had any more shots since then nor will she be getting anymore.

azmusiclover 02-04-2005 02:51 PM

My brother got one of the very first Hib vaccines when he was 18 months old. He had a seizure, a bad one. Then continued to have seizures. They checked him for everything, never found a cause, stuck him on all sorts of nasty seizure meds.
My mom is convinced now that it was the Hib vaccine and has told me to refuse it for my kids (which I do anyway) but I see my brother who has stunted growth from all the seizure meds and learning disabilities that have occurred from all the seizures which he would not have had.

So this seems to be another way for them to have scare tactics and add more $$$ to the pot.

owensmom 02-23-2005 02:51 AM

Can anyone point me to the what the symptoms of HiB are? Reading the above, and the mention of pinkeye (which I believe my son had in both eyes with his longterm cold this past couple weeks), I'm curious.

I'm actually reading this thread because I ended up taking him to the ped even though his cold had seemed to clear up - he was tiring easily, not eating, and his glands were swollen, and I thought he was getting better - so I got not our normal ped because she was out, and of course I got the vax lectures. She tried to scare me about ds getting epiglottitis because he doesn't have his HiB (or any) vax.

She also told me I could catch him up on his vaxes, even though he was sick.

Thanks!

Mommy To Baby Roni 02-23-2005 04:35 AM

Quote:
He said he has seen two 2 month old twins die from meningitis when he was a young doctor and that it really impacted him and gave him a healthy respect for the disease and the vax.
If this experience impacted him so deeply, why hadn't he mentioned it before? Why wait until your child is 6 mos. old, when you've already had vax discussions, to mention this story about 2-month olds. I think many peds try to start parents on "just one" vax, then "oh, and this one is also most important", etc. Honestly, I think he's just using it go lure you in.

KatSG 02-26-2005 08:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by owensmom
Can anyone point me to the what the symptoms of HiB are? Reading the above, and the mention of pinkeye (which I believe my son had in both eyes with his longterm cold this past couple weeks), I'm curious.
I now really wish I'd written it all down because I can't remember, but I know when dd had HiB she had pink eye in both eyes, the green, goopy kind. She had a sniffly nose, and she just felt rotten. She was so little, though, a few months old, that I couldn't tell you if she was especially tired or lethargic because it's just harder to tell at that age, you know?

It did go on for a few weeks but was only really bad for maybe 5 days. I know it wasn't weeks of trauma. We did do the AB for the eyes because the culture came back as bacterial. Our FNP suggested it but I was skeptical and irritated at him for throwing ABs ate me until the culture came back positive. I'm a firm believe in diagnostics, and I'm glad our FNP is, too.

If you want to know for sure get a culture. Like I said, sometimes it's worth it to go to the doctor even if it's not an emergency just to get an accurate diagnosis so you know what's the appropriate course of action and so you can keep track of your kid's health history.

nancy926 03-01-2005 05:05 PM

HiB stands for Haemophilus influenzae type B. It's a type of bacteria and 90 percent of us have it in our systems right now. It can cause bacterial meningitis (which is an infection of the membranes around the brain and spinal cord) in young kids (under 4) especially. this type of meningitis has about a 10 percent death rate and can also cause seizures, etc. It's treated with antibiotics - but thanks to antibiotic overuse, Hib meningitis has become more common, or at least it did from about the mid-1940s to mid-1980s.

www.909shot.com says:

In 1995, out of 74 Hib disease cases where age and vaccination status were known, 41 had received at least one Hib shot; 22 were appropriately vaccinated for their age; and 18 had completed the primary series.

That leaves 3 that were unvaccinated!

emedicine.com says about 70 percent of cases are in kids under 2. Mayoclinic.com says there are about 700 deaths a year overall. So if there's a 10 percent death rate, there are about 7,000 cases, or about 5,000 cases in kids under 2 in the U.S. That's not many. i have no idea how many kids under 2 there are in this country (and you would think that would be relatively easy to find out!).

I do know that our new wee one will be at least selectively vaxed, and HiB is not at the top of my list of vaxes I'm keen on getting.


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