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#31 of 44 Old 06-16-2008, 11:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Emmeline II View Post
Your child can make her own decision as an adult.

Adult can react badly to the vaccine; adults can react badly to the wild virus . At least you can attempt to treat the latter.
I've been reading this thread and trying to process where I stand on the issue. Thanks Emmeline...this makes sense to me.

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#32 of 44 Old 06-16-2008, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It doesn't matter WHY the numbers are wrong; the point is that they are wrong. The traditional diagnostic criteria for measles can give false positives, and I don't think most doctors order the bloodwork.
Don't t bite my head off. lol I think it's hard to gather any info, correct or incorrect when the resources are so dang limited. And a misdiagnosis in Africa isn't the same as one in the US. Not to sound like a meanie or anything, but i am trying to make a decision in my part of the world, with the resources here.
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#33 of 44 Old 06-16-2008, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've been reading this thread and trying to process where I stand on the issue. Thanks Emmeline...this makes sense to me.
Yeah, it's taken me until the later teen years to get here. And now with these outbreaks near, while small, is giving me pause since my kids never got the disease in childhood. That would have offerred life- long immunity.
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#34 of 44 Old 06-16-2008, 11:30 AM
 
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I think in your situation, my reasoning would include talking to them and educating them.

Also, I would consider their lifestyles. Are they particularly health-conscious kids? Or are they rebelling right now and trying to subsist entirely on junk and 2 hours of sleep a night?

-Angela
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#35 of 44 Old 06-16-2008, 11:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
I appreciate all the thoughts. Thanks for keeping it calm, too.


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5718a5.htm
74 confirmed cases
14 hospitalizations
0 reported complications
0 deaths


Do you know where it says there were no complications? And this is the first time I've seen where more uivax'd people got measles than vax'd. That's interesintg.
Of all the news coverages there were no reports of complications.


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The other site includes baby reactions doesn't separate baby vax from adult vax. I need that info. Is it there and I just don't see it?
Infants and adults get the same MMR vaccine (I'm almost positive that they get the same doseage, as well). But if you meant infant reactions reported, here's the VAERS report for under age 2:
http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/fin...adsheet+format
247 total adverse events
97 ER visits
15 hospitalizations
1 life-threatening reaction
1 death

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The 664 figure based is how many MMRs given in a year, and I am thinking it's a couple of million? Some of those reactions, too, didn't result in long- lasting complications.
Yes, but keep in mind that reactions are dismally under-reported; the FDA estimates that only about 10% of reactions are ever reported.

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Some of those reactions, too, didn't result in long- lasting complications.
And neither did the measles cases, despite the oldest "victim" being 71 years old and the youngest being 5 months old.

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I am trying to figure out risk factors...664 Vs 2 million or 14 Vs 74. Temporary complications Vs long tasting ones etc.
See, and I view it the opposite way: why assume the risk of the MMR (we did with my son, and my siggy pretty much says how that turned out, but that's a whole other debate), when the reality is that measles in a healthy child is relatively uncomplicated.

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Measles in small children is not the same as measles in an adult. That's my concern. Try to bear with me as I tweak this out. And as you post, please remember I am not the enemy.
((hugs)) I completely understand. We should be able to have concrete nubers to make educated decisions, but for so long parents have been encouraged NOT to educate ourselves.
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#36 of 44 Old 06-16-2008, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Dr Jay Gordon-- you've posted here before...and if you're out there now, and maybe reading this, can you PM me? Or something? lol Pretty please. Help a mama of teens. :
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#37 of 44 Old 06-16-2008, 11:50 AM
 
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I'm sorry, just realized that your kids are older. This is the VAERS report for age 10 and up:

93 total adverse events reported
29 ER visits
0 hospitalizations
0 life-threatening
0 deaths
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#38 of 44 Old 06-16-2008, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm sorry, just realized that your kids are older. This is the VAERS report for age 10 and up:

93 total adverse events reported
29 ER visits
0 hospitalizations
0 life-threatening
0 deaths

Oh, that's helpful! Where did you find that? link? Does it say how many MMRs were given in this 10 + age group? I'd like to know 93 out of how many. I'd also love to know the ages of those 93. Old people? Sick people? What were the reactions, specifically. ETA-- I just found the main page-- I can do the sifting. Never mind.

I realize this doesn't include RA, and I would like those. I can't find where there is a clear connection. I'd love some help on that.
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#39 of 44 Old 06-16-2008, 03:20 PM
 
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Athritis is associated with the rubella component of the MMR. From the MMR package insert:

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_.../mmr_ii_pi.pdf
Following vaccination in children, reactions in joints are uncommon and generally of brief duration. In women, incidence rates for arthritis and arthralgia are generally higher than those seen in children (children: 0-3%; women: 12-26%)7,36,37 and the reactions tend to be more marked and of longer duration. Symptoms may persist for a matter of months or on rare occasions for years. In adolescent girls, the reactions appear to be intermediate in incidence between those seen in children and in adult women.
Even in women older than 35 years, these reactions are generally well tolerated and rarely interfere with normal activities. Myalgia and paresthesia have been reported rarely after administration of MERUVAX II.


But in all fairness, the same joint symptoms can happen if a woman contracts wild-type rubella as well.
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#40 of 44 Old 06-16-2008, 04:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by UUMom View Post
Yeah, it's taken me until the later teen years to get here. And now with these outbreaks near, while small, is giving me pause since my kids never got the disease in childhood. That would have offerred life- long immunity.
This may be a silly question but have they had titers done? They could actually have immunity already.

Just a thought…
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#41 of 44 Old 06-16-2008, 05:26 PM
 
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Don't t bite my head off. lol I think it's hard to gather any info, correct or incorrect when the resources are so dang limited. And a misdiagnosis in Africa isn't the same as one in the US. Not to sound like a meanie or anything, but i am trying to make a decision in my part of the world, with the resources here.
Didn't mean to sound snippy, sorry about that. I don't think the problem is limited to Africa, that's part of my point. I was thinking about the travel aspect of exposure, what Carrie mentioned.

As for diagnosis in the US, I don't know how often they do bloodwork but I would be surprised if the insurance companies pay for regular blood work after a measles diagnosis in cases without complications. Does anyone know?

One reason I think this is important, is that I think the efficacy of the measles vaccine may be overstated. We tend to take for granted that, whatever the downsides, this vaccine is very effective. However, it isn't clear exactly how any of the vaccines that appear to work really "work," aside from generating positive titres, which we know isn't the whole game.

So, I really think that we need to seriously tender the possibility that a lot of kids do get some kind of exposure, which they successfully defend against. Granted, nutrition is not what it could be, even in the developed world, but a lot of folks clearly still happen upon a sufficient minimum of nutrients, because we don't see rafts of serious disease and illness from common diseases among "healthy" folks. Some people do get really sick, and I think that is usually a pretty good litmus test of where their deficiencies may lie, but you already know what you need to keep up with for better health.

Whenever allopaths claim to have developed an effective surgical strike, I always think Andromeda Strain...
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#42 of 44 Old 06-16-2008, 06:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alegna View Post
I think in your situation, my reasoning would include talking to them and educating them.

Also, I would consider their lifestyles. Are they particularly health-conscious kids? Or are they rebelling right now and trying to subsist entirely on junk and 2 hours of sleep a night?

-Angela
: I think at age 14 and 16 they are more than capable of making a decision themseves actually. I would give them the information and leave it up to them. I think measles in teens is often not as mild as in children and maybe they don't want to be sick for a week yk?
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#43 of 44 Old 06-16-2008, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, peeps! I appreciate this discussion. I'm good now.
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#44 of 44 Old 06-20-2008, 04:04 PM
 
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My kids are 16 and 14 and I hate to put that burden on them right now. If I wait long enough, until they are 21, I guess. But I am concerned about measles complications in their age and until then. Just because they can decide later, doesn't mean I shouldn't take on the burden at this point.

You're talking about a parenting choice-- to let it go until they are legal adults, and I am trying to make what I think is a medical decision for minors.
They can have reactions to the vaccines at their ages as well. Ah weli, I see someone addressed that.
Teen hospitalized due to chicken pox vaccine reaction.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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