"Intervention" for overweight friend. - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 03:29 PM
 
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A) yes, fat can help in certain instances, but the negative affects of being overweight, far outweigh the benefits. You simply cannot say it's "healthier" to be fat.

B) I definately agree that often, fatter people are in better shape than thinner people. My husband is a great example. He's skinny as a stick (neurofibromatosis) and can't gain weight for the life of him, thus, he eats chips all day and never plays sports or goes for walks.

BUT I believe that portion sizes are often the problem for many people. Yes, chicken, potatoes and beans is a great meal, but it doens't have to be a heaping plate full. If you look at restaurant portions they've increased dramatically. Just while I worked at mcdonalds they phased out the smallest cup and the medium became a small, etc, and they brought in a new "big" size.

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#62 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 03:47 PM
 
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Yes, I am saying just being overweight does not mean you're unhealthy anymore than being thin means you're healthy.

And I guess the part where it's never been proved (although many have tried) that overweight people eat more or exercise less than thin people.

And if we can't figure out why some people can't gain weight (and no one blames them for it ) then why is it hard to grasp the same applies for fat people who can't lose weight (which most people blame them for). Either extreme on the size spectrum isn't healthy but you're more likely to die from being on the very thin end statistically.
The fact is many people especially in the USA eat unhealthily and don't move enough whether or not they are fat, thin or in between.

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#63 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 04:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bcblondie View Post
Fact being. Even drug addicts KNOW they are drug addicts. But they don't turn their life around until they hit rock bottom. Anne knows she's overweight. The intervention isn't to tell her what she already knows, it's to say hey! Whatever you are doing isn't working. You need to find solutions, and we need to do it NOW. Speak with a dietician (though she may have already) and be held accountable to someone for her weight loss each week/month. SOMETHING.
But how do you know she isn't already doing this? Fact is, you don't. She has doctor's appointments regularly and that may be something she is addressing already and for all we know there may be other things they are having her address first. For example, if she has high blood pressure they'd most likely want to make sure that was under control before allowing an exercise program in her condition. Frankly whatever steps she may be taking with her physicians are no one else's business, and there's no reason she should be backed in a corner forced to defend herself and offering up personal information like that if she is taking those steps. There are much nicer and more effective ways to address this!
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#64 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 04:15 PM
 
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while the idea of an intervention as originally proposed is clearly a harsh way to go, i'm not quite understanding the advice to not say anything to someone you cared about. if you see someone go from 200 to 400 pounds, i would think a good friend would bring it up - privately - and in a gentle way to see if there was anything they could do to help.

and, for those who are saying the fat person knows they are fat - this is not always true. i have a good friend who has a very distorted imagine of herself, her size and what she thinks she's eating vs what she really is eating.

for example, at a picnic last summer she ate 3 hotdogs, 2 burgers, tons of sides (potato salad, etc), an uncounted number of brownies and at least 3 pieces of cheesecake and multiple beers over about 4 hours (i am probably forgetting some stuff too). i know this because we sat next to each other that whole time and i was floored when we were packing things up that she said she didn't know why she felt so full off of "a hotdog and a little potato salad."

she really meant it. it was like she was completely erasing all the other food she had eaten from her memory. i said "well, the beer and cheesecake probably helped that too" and she replied that a few beers (she had had at least 8) and half a piece of cheesecake weren't anything to worry over.

i dropped it at that point because i've seen this before. when we go to dinner at a restaurant she will eat the entire basket of bread and then tease me about not leaving her any even though i didn't eat any.

for someone like that, how do you not say anything? i've tried to talk to her kindly about it and she looks at me like i really have 3 heads and has no idea what i'm talking about. i worry about how much she's eating and how fast her weight is climbing and how unhealthy she is. i really worry she is eating her way into a heartattack at 40.

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#66 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 04:24 PM
 
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About the blog

A) yes, fat can help in certain instances, but the negative affects of being overweight, far outweigh the benefits. You simply cannot say it's "healthier" to be fat.

B) I definately agree that often, fatter people are in better shape than thinner people. My husband is a great example. He's skinny as a stick (neurofibromatosis) and can't gain weight for the life of him, thus, he eats chips all day and never plays sports or goes for walks.

BUT I believe that portion sizes are often the problem for many people. Yes, chicken, potatoes and beans is a great meal, but it doens't have to be a heaping plate full. If you look at restaurant portions they've increased dramatically. Just while I worked at mcdonalds they phased out the smallest cup and the medium became a small, etc, and they brought in a new "big" size.
but I've noticed that overweight people actually eat less. My mom weighs 30 lbs more than I do, and eats about half as much. My grandma barely eats at all, and weighs 40-50 lbs more than I do. I really think genetics play a huge role in weight. I eat A LOT, and mostly crap to be honest, and I weigh 113 lbs. My body fat percentage is too high; I'm out of shape, and don't feel well most of the time. I don't think weight plays a huge factor in good overall health.

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#67 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 04:38 PM
 
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It's really hard to say how much someone eats sometimes because even an extra couple bites full can make you much fatter 30 years from now.
Here's an example with some math.
3500 calories = 1 lb of fat.

So if you eat an extra 19 calories per day, more than you burn (which could litterally be one mouthfull of food, the the difference between having stairs in your house or not)... That equals almost 7000 (6935) calories extra in a year. So about 2lbs of fat would be gained. Very hard to even notice considering weight tends to fluctuate day by day 5, even 10lbs, depending if it was a heavy or light eating day.

But an extra 2lbs per year means in 30 years you will be 60 lbs overweight.

Add in a couple babies, those last 20 lbs are a bugger to lose, I know!) and could be 100 lbs overweight without having really eaten poorly at all!

But guaranteed, those 100 lbs will impact your life, Every single aspect of life will be more difficult, having to carry that weight.. Imagine strapping a couple sacks of potatoes to yourself.

Now there are obviously some more details here. You may be well within your calories for the day but it depends where they come from. The sugars from fruits are much more easily processed than simple sugars like candy. So that needs to be taken into consideration. But I think my math stands.

Mom to angel baby, grew wings at 5 weeks in May '07, William, born Dec '08, and another angel who grew wings at 8w4d (lost at 11w) in Oct '10. Rachel born Feb 2012, Another angel Lost Sept '13. New bean due Nov '14!
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#68 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 04:38 PM
 
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The obesity myths link I posted up thread and this link are a really good place to start if you are wanting to get a different perspective on being fat and the lies, myths and prejudice that come along with it.
http://kateharding.net/faq/but-dont-...-is-unhealthy/

This is great- thanks for sharing!
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#69 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 04:41 PM
 
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I can't argue the math LOL
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Originally Posted by bcblondie View Post
It's really hard to say how much someone eats sometimes because even an extra couple bites full can make you much fatter 30 years from now.
Here's an example with some math.
3500 calories = 1 lb of fat.

So if you eat an extra 19 calories per day, more than you burn (which could litterally be one mouthfull of food, the the difference between having stairs in your house or not)... That equals almost 7000 (6935) calories extra in a year. So about 2lbs of fat would be gained. Very hard to even notice considering weight tends to fluctuate day by day 5, even 10lbs, depending if it was a heavy or light eating day.

But an extra 2lbs per year means in 30 years you will be 60 lbs overweight.

Add in a couple babies, those last 20 lbs are a bugger to lose, I know!) and could be 100 lbs overweight without having really eaten poorly at all!

But guaranteed, those 100 lbs will impact your life, Every single aspect of life will be more difficult, having to carry that weight.. Imagine strapping a couple sacks of potatoes to yourself.

Now there are obviously some more details here. You may be well within your calories for the day but it depends where they come from. The sugars from fruits are much more easily processed than simple sugars like candy. So that needs to be taken into consideration. But I think my math stands.

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#70 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 04:47 PM
 
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for someone like that, how do you not say anything? i've tried to talk to her kindly about it and she looks at me like i really have 3 heads and has no idea what i'm talking about. i worry about how much she's eating and how fast her weight is climbing and how unhealthy she is. i really worry she is eating her way into a heartattack at 40.
Take her swimsuit shopping in a store with three-way mirrors and when she complains about her weight, mention that you've being doing some food journaling?

more seriously, if she's teasing you about eating stuff that she ate how about "actually you ate all of that, are you okay? I've noticed you don't always realize when you're eating, are you worried about something?"
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#71 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 05:01 PM
 
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more seriously, if she's teasing you about eating stuff that she ate how about "actually you ate all of that, are you okay? I've noticed you don't always realize when you're eating, are you worried about something?"
that's actually a good idea. i can't tell you how weird it is to hear several times during a dinner about how you didn't save any bread for her when you know you haven't touched the stuff (or when she "jokes" with the waiter about how we need more bread b/c i must have been very hungry).

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#72 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 05:03 PM
 
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I'd just like to commend everyone involved in this discussion. Weight is such a sensitive subject and everyone has been extremely civil. On some other mommy forums I'm part of, I don't know that it would have hit 4 pages without being locked.

Mom to angel baby, grew wings at 5 weeks in May '07, William, born Dec '08, and another angel who grew wings at 8w4d (lost at 11w) in Oct '10. Rachel born Feb 2012, Another angel Lost Sept '13. New bean due Nov '14!
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#73 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 05:06 PM
 
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Your math is fine as far as I can tell but gaining and losing weight doesn't seem to be that simple or follow the equation some of the time maybe not most the time. If the equation with out a doubt worked then we wouldn't have people eating 2000+ calories a day (not burning that much +) that can't gain weight no matter how much fat/calories they eat. And if that's true then the same can be said for the other end of the spectrum. There's more to it than an equation.

And I think most people sometimes take an extra bite or two but then the same person probably skips a meal or two as well. And again it doesn't seem to hold true that overweight people eat more or exercise less than their thinner counterparts so the point is moot imo. And thinner people seem to die sooner than overweight people according to studies so maybe that extra bite is a health benefit.

But most of all if you wouldn't throw an intervention for a thin friend who eats crap and doesn't exercise then you shouldn't for your fat friend either!

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#74 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 05:08 PM
 
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for someone like that, how do you not say anything? i've tried to talk to her kindly about it and she looks at me like i really have 3 heads and has no idea what i'm talking about. i worry about how much she's eating and how fast her weight is climbing and how unhealthy she is. i really worry she is eating her way into a heartattack at 40.
It is hard, isn't it? I have a friend in a very similar situation and I truly worry about her health and her being there to watch her little girl grow up. She could hardly trick or treat with us - and we went 2 blocks at a toddler's pace. I thought she was going to pass out.

But I can't say anything. In the past she used to ask questions and talk/vent a bit but any answer I gave her was wrong and at one point she accused me of being anorexic! Um...I'm a size 6. A round size 6 at the moment (thanks infertility drugs!). I just work out and watch what I eat 70% of the time. My rambling point was that even when she asked me straight out about what I do/how to do it she still got mad at me.

I think all we can do is overlook the flaws of our friends and be there as a supportive individual in life. Even when we worry.

To the OP...so glad this intervention was called off. Anne would have been so humilated.
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#75 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 05:31 PM
 
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My only thought was, "What if this carnival drives your friend to suicide?"
More evidence that fat causes early death!
Okay, that was crass; but I have heard doctors comment that one problem with overweight is that it causes depression, and I suspect "interventions" like this might be a big part of the reason.
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I'd just like to commend everyone involved in this discussion. Weight is such a sensitive subject and everyone has been extremely civil. On some other mommy forums I'm part of, I don't know that it would have hit 4 pages without being locked.
I have been trying to figure out why people feel so intensely about fat. Being bad for your health is not enough to explain the hostility.
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#76 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 05:35 PM
 
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I have been trying to figure out why people feel so intensely about fat. Being bad for your health is not enough to explain the hostility.
Some people are cruel teenagers on the inside. Kids pick on whatever is the easiest to make fun of, to make themselves look/feel better. Fat is an easy target.

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#77 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 05:39 PM
 
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It's really hard to say how much someone eats sometimes because even an extra couple bites full can make you much fatter 30 years from now.
Here's an example with some math.
3500 calories = 1 lb of fat.

So if you eat an extra 19 calories per day, more than you burn (which could litterally be one mouthfull of food, the the difference between having stairs in your house or not)... That equals almost 7000 (6935) calories extra in a year. So about 2lbs of fat would be gained. Very hard to even notice considering weight tends to fluctuate day by day 5, even 10lbs, depending if it was a heavy or light eating day.

But an extra 2lbs per year means in 30 years you will be 60 lbs overweight.

Add in a couple babies, those last 20 lbs are a bugger to lose, I know!) and could be 100 lbs overweight without having really eaten poorly at all!

But guaranteed, those 100 lbs will impact your life, Every single aspect of life will be more difficult, having to carry that weight.. Imagine strapping a couple sacks of potatoes to yourself.

Now there are obviously some more details here. You may be well within your calories for the day but it depends where they come from. The sugars from fruits are much more easily processed than simple sugars like candy. So that needs to be taken into consideration. But I think my math stands.


The fact is that this doesnt' factor in individual metobolic efficiency. Many overweight people, myself included, have damaged their metabolism through years and years of under eating low calorie, low-fat diets. I was over 250 lbs and GAINING weight eating only 1200 calories a day. My body thought it was starving, so it hung on to every little thing. When I went to weight management from my insurance company, they wanted my body to literally go into starvation mode - past the hang on to every calorie phase and into concentration camp victim phase in order to drop weight. The health care professionals were recommending 600-800 calories a day on a 100% liquid diet. I'm so glad i decided not to do it, because I can only imagine that once I started eating like a human being my weight would have ricoched even higher. I think I've finally repaired my metabolism by eating way more for awhile, and even gaining a bit of weight while my body was trying to decide if I was faking it out. Now I'm losing weight eating 2000 calories a day. Doctors are so fat phobic, though, that no one is looking for other solutions.
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#78 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 05:39 PM
 
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We consider fat to be a sign of personal weakness.

Gary Taubes has pretty much disproved the personal weakness theory of fat, though.

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#79 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 05:42 PM
 
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for someone like that, how do you not say anything?
I don't see how you could say anything useful in that situation. Clearly something is not right with her. It's like when you try to talk to your mother about something she did to you as a child that you thought was horrible, and she has no clue what you are talking about, or has a completely different memory.
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#80 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 05:46 PM
 
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Oh, and I can also serve as an example of a person who gained weight on semi-starvation allottment of calories. Same with my mother. Last year I was eating 900-1200 calories a day (and breastfeeding... literally starving myself, as this is half the recommended calories for a healthy adult woman) and lifting weights and running. I have 6 extra pounds to show for it.

People like blondie can sneer all the want about self control but the evidence shows that it's not about self control. People are following the recommended calorie restrictions and exercise programs and are bewildered and dispairing when it doesn't work. The problem is not self control but that the recommended diet is wrong, very wrong.

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#81 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 05:50 PM
 
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It's a lot more complicated than the math in post 67. For instance, if you're African-American your body will store calories as fat more efficiently and let go of that fat more reluctantly. The reason for this dates back to the Middle Passage, where the AA population went through a bottleneck due to starvation on the slave ships. Those that survived were those who had the ability to store fat efficiently. This happens to be a well-studied example: people of other cultures likely have similar genetic quirks, which are historically harder to determine.

It's also not terribly useful math, unless one is so phenomenally in tune with one's body that one knows how many calories one is using up day by day. Eating a spoonful of food less every day on the grounds that one might be using up less energy than one is consuming seems a rather bizarre attitude to take to food - all it takes is one phone call while one's hopping out of the shower and one's going "underweight" again.
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I don't see how you could say anything useful in that situation. Clearly something is not right with her. It's like when you try to talk to your mother about something she did to you as a child that you thought was horrible, and she has no clue what you are talking about, or has a completely different memory.
I agree. It doesn't sound like your friend's issue is overweightness. Implying you ate food she ate sounds passive-aggressive at best (Wives and Daughters, anyone?). I'd call her on that without mentioning her weight, which is none of your business. "Um, I didn't eat any of that bread" would do, and her reaction (whether "I know, sweetie, I was kidding" or "What? Where did it go? Did I eat it?") would likely give you a clue as to where she's coming from.

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#82 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 05:52 PM
 
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Everyone's metabolisms are different based on height, frame, amount of muscle and yes, even fat. Moving a heavier body does take more calories. But you need to work with what you got. Yes goign into starvation mode can be killer on your metabolism, I've been there. But it CAN recover. Lots of proteins and fluids helps.

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#83 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 06:24 PM
 
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I agree. It doesn't sound like your friend's issue is overweightness. Implying you ate food she ate sounds passive-aggressive at best (Wives and Daughters, anyone?). I'd call her on that without mentioning her weight, which is none of your business. "Um, I didn't eat any of that bread" would do, and her reaction (whether "I know, sweetie, I was kidding" or "What? Where did it go? Did I eat it?") would likely give you a clue as to where she's coming from.
don't want to drag this too far afield, but i have said "um, i didn't eat any of it" and she rolls her eyes at me and kind of makes this "pfft" noise like she's thinking "whatever" and chooses not to answer me.

i could give many examples of things like that, for instance, where we go to an all you can eat buffet place and she pushes all her empty plates on my side of the table as if they were mine all along.

i have to think on this a bit more. you gals are offering me a different point of view that it's not a weight/control issue so much as it is something else going on in her head / in her life that causes her to not realize what she's doing. i had not thought of this before.

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#84 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 06:47 PM
 
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Everyone's metabolisms are different based on height, frame, amount of muscle and yes, even fat. Moving a heavier body does take more calories. But you need to work with what you got. Yes goign into starvation mode can be killer on your metabolism, I've been there. But it CAN recover. Lots of proteins and fluids helps.
Are you actually suggesting people go into starvation mode? I hope I'm reading that wrong.

Catubodua: The behavior you describe is really off. Like, mighty odd. I wouldn't want to say weight/body image issues have nothing to do with her behavior, but there's definitely more going on there than her weight (I mean, how many overweight people do you know who do that?). She sounds kinda sad. Does she just do this to you, or to other people? Does she "rewrite history" on other issues as well as food? (Not sure where I'm going with this, as I have no expertise in psychology: I'm just curious!)

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#85 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 07:48 PM
 
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i'm not sure if she does this to other people or not. when we go out it's usually just the two of us. and, i have noticed she does this for other things too - like with money / costs of things. she'll make a comment about how her and her husband are trying to quit smoking because of the cost. she said we need that $400 a month for other things. i don't smoke so i asked how much that was and she said they both smoke a carton per week and the carton costs $78 each. i did it in my head real quick (at $80 per) and said "god, that's actually closer to $650 per month, not $400!" and went through the math i did in my head.

she'll agree and say "wow it's higher than i thought!" but, an hour later, she'll buy something and say "well, i guess we don't need that $400 this month" as if she's either forgotten what we said or she just doesn't want to acknowledge it.

as for other overweight friends, no, none of them do anything like that. if they do say something like i ate all the bread when i hadn't touched it, it's because they are joking and they know they are teasing me and it's a joke we share, not something they really believe.

mom to Andrew   born Feb 6th, already a mom to child with fur; and still missing and still wondering about the lost possibilities Mar 17, 2009
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#86 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 08:31 PM
 
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Are you actually suggesting people go into starvation mode? I hope I'm reading that wrong.
Oh that is absolutely not what I meant!! I just meant that IF you've been like me and you've damaged your metabolism by eating too little, you aren't "scr*wed for life" if you know what I mean. Don't give up hope or give up trying... Keep taking care of your body as best you can.

Smokering my math was just to show that it COULD be as simple as a tiny bit too much food each day. Obviously you can't know, down to the calorie, how many you are taking in. But if you are only a few lbs overweight, your diet might just need a tiny tweak, or maybe an extra walk around the block. That's all I'm saying. Even if you are 60 lbs overweight, it came on slowly, a little at a time, it might take time to come off. If your lifestyle is normally pretty sedentary, a walk around the block can do wonders. Little things. That's all I'm saying.

About the lady who denies what she eats. Wow. I thought she was kidding. But I guess she really is eating without thinking! Or she's in denial.... Because that is a LOT of food.

Mom to angel baby, grew wings at 5 weeks in May '07, William, born Dec '08, and another angel who grew wings at 8w4d (lost at 11w) in Oct '10. Rachel born Feb 2012, Another angel Lost Sept '13. New bean due Nov '14!
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#87 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 09:11 PM
 
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But since it's not in itself unhealthy to be overweight just keep eating healthy and getting exercise but stop buying into our society's sick obsession with thin and the myths about obesity. I think that is the major message we need to be taking away from this discussion imo.
If we stopped focusing on size then maybe we could actually focus on real health, which comes in many different sizes.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#88 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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But since it's not in itself unhealthy to be overweight just keep eating healthy and getting exercise but stop buying into our society's sick obsession with thin and the myths about obesity. I think that is the major message we need to be taking away from this discussion imo.
If we stopped focusing on size then maybe we could actually focus on real health, which comes in many different sizes.
Absolutely. I agree with this.

BUT

I don't want to offend anyone, and I really hope I don't. But isn't it a different ball game when you are talking about someone who weighs 400 lbs, as opposed to someone who just weights, say, 200 lbs? I mean, you get to a certain weight, and you might diet and you might exercise... but just the sheer volume of fat is extremely hard on your body. At 400#, you know they have a high % of body fat. Even if they don't have diabetes or high blood pressure (which, yes, anyone can get any any weight) our bodies weren't designed to hold and carry that much weight.

I guess I am playing devil's advocate here.

Again, I don't agree with Jane's tactics, and obviously I'm in the majority with this opinion (both here online and IRL)... BUT in Jane's defense... I think she truly is worried that her childhood friend is dying. As much as she is a drama queen, and probably enjoyed that aspect of all of this, I think she does feel desperate to help Anne. I can basically promise you that she is of the opinion that I'm not a very good friend because I don't confront her on this. She would argue that a true friend would do what is uncomfortable and difficult, rather than just standing by watching someone die.

I just think there is a big difference when talking about someone who is overweight, or even obese, versus someone who is as large as Anne. Anne is losing mobility.

I hope this makes sense. Again, I stand by the decision.

::
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#89 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 10:45 PM
 
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But since it's not in itself unhealthy to be overweight just keep eating healthy and getting exercise but stop buying into our society's sick obsession with thin and the myths about obesity. I think that is the major message we need to be taking away from this discussion imo.
If we stopped focusing on size then maybe we could actually focus on real health, which comes in many different sizes.

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
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#90 of 122 Old 01-11-2010, 10:50 PM
 
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I don't want to offend anyone, and I really hope I don't. But isn't it a different ball game when you are talking about someone who weighs 400 lbs, as opposed to someone who just weights, say, 200 lbs? I mean, you get to a certain weight, and you might diet and you might exercise... but just the sheer volume of fat is extremely hard on your body. At 400#, you know they have a high % of body fat. Even if they don't have diabetes or high blood pressure (which, yes, anyone can get any any weight) our bodies weren't designed to hold and carry that much weight.
.
This!! That's what I was trying to say.

Mom to angel baby, grew wings at 5 weeks in May '07, William, born Dec '08, and another angel who grew wings at 8w4d (lost at 11w) in Oct '10. Rachel born Feb 2012, Another angel Lost Sept '13. New bean due Nov '14!
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