"New Mamas of Spirtual Awakening in Our Marriages" roll call - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 236 Old 06-01-2005, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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For all of us wanting to better ourselves and our marriages~

(sent to me by my friend today )

The Four Agreements (Plus One) as affirmations and more…

1. I AM Impeccable With My Word
I speak with integrity. I say only what I mean. I avoid using the word to speak against myself or to gossip about others. I use the power of my word in the direction of truth and love.

2. I Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of me. What others say and do is a projection of their reality, their own dream. I choose to be immune to the opinions and actions of others, therefore I AM removed from playing the role of “victim” and needless suffering.

3. I Don't Make Assumptions
I conjure Courage to ASK pertinent questions and LISTEN carefully to the responses to learn well and discern clearly. I express what I really desire from a space of Wholeness, not neediness. I communicate with others as clearly as I can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. I refrain from telling another “What Is So.” I utilize compassionate wisdom to ASK powerful questions so the listener “Realizes (the) Truth” for themselves. Staying in this agreement, I can completely transform my life and catalyze transformation in others who are willing.

4. I Always Do My Best
My best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when I AM healthy and clear as opposed to when I am out-of-touch with my wellness. Under any circumstance, I simply do my best, and I avoid self-judgment, self-abuse and regret.

5. I See Transformation Occurring in ALL, Moment to Moment

My choices contribute to the collective ascension, so I utilize discernment wisely. I serve SELF, LIFE, and OTHERS in this order of priority. I refrain from telling another “What Is So.” I utilize compassionate wisdom to gently ASK powerful questions, so the listener “Realizes (the) Truth” for themselves. Staying in this agreement, I can completely transform my life and catalyze transformation in others. I use SOFT POWER (Gentle Strength) in all my human interactions unless direct aversion and confrontation is required—and it rarely is!

the four agreements

"The deeper the mud the more beautiful the flower"
~buddhist teaching

many blessings~~

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#2 of 236 Old 06-01-2005, 02:08 PM
 
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Thanks for starting this movement, mystic~mama






Food for thought ~~


"MARRIAGE:

When two people are under the influence of the most violent, most insane, most delusive, and most transient of passions, they are required to swear that they will remain in that excited, abnormal, and exhausting condition continuously until death do them part."


--George Bernard Shaw
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#3 of 236 Old 06-01-2005, 02:20 PM
 
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I love it... I'm in. I do marriage counseling for a living but boy am I aware of how little I am practicing what I preach these days. I recently took a personal development seminar (The Landmark Forum) which really got me to see that my challenge is to be fully expressive with dh. This means I am not supposed to figure out exactly what to say so that I get the response that I need. I need to just say things. That is hard for me. I am a perfectionist and perhaps just a bit.... manipulative. : So- count me in... I want to give my marriage my all. (Of course that is the perfectionism, right?)

Maureen
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#4 of 236 Old 06-01-2005, 03:21 PM
 
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Hurrah! thanks for starting this mystic mama...I need all the help I can get. Nothing to add right now, just :

Lisa: Homeschooling Mum of ds, 8 and dd, 6
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#5 of 236 Old 06-01-2005, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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great quote May May

MsMoMpls & lisa72~ glad u joined

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#6 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 02:21 AM
 
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So where do we start? I keep flitting back and reading the "Harsh reality " Thread which is making me think lots about what our limits are as women and mothers.
I remember reading a previous thread a while ago about a young mum who was suffering terribly with her horribly abusive husband. She ended up not leaving him and I was sitting there thinking "I wouldn't do that, I would leave and never go back" Well I left and did go back. So what the hell do I know? I have to say this other man was much more violent than my husband, but mine was still very abusive.

What leaving him taught me is what my limit is. It sounds like nothing, but I couldn't figure this out..I was stumped. I realised what I was putting myself and my children through the night before I left. It came to me and that was it, no planning, nothing.. I left in what our counsellor called "flight or fight" mode, I couldn't believe I had let this happen for so long. It felt FANTASTIC.


Anyway, I'm still REALLY angry with him. I loose it so quickly now it's awful. I have instant hate for him which freaks me out. It's like I came home and suddenly became the angry one(towards him only). wierd.

I do love this person. He is good, he is trying. I do know now though, that if he ever pulls that rubbish again, we will be gone. The kids passports are ready and I have NO problem calling the police and starting a legal paper trail.

Lisa: Homeschooling Mum of ds, 8 and dd, 6
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#7 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 11:14 AM
 
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I've been married all of 18 months to the love of my life. We are blessed in many ways... but what a crazy learning curve we're on! I saw on another board a thread about lying... I thought, well *I've* never done that! And brought it up to hubby last nite. It was disturbing to be told that he's thought of lying several times. I mean, I 'm glad he didn't :LOL , but still.

I can't lie to save myself. I confess EVERY little thing.

Of course, this is ONE issue. So count me in. :LOL

Stacy - mom to Lily 5-20-06 , Angel, stillborn @ 25 wks 12-17-07 , and Cami 4-21-09.
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#8 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 11:35 AM
 
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Thank you for posting this...I needed a reminder...before I had my last daughter I was on a path spiritually...guess I still am but then it was active, now it's more passive...I need a little active travel again...thank you...thank you...thank you!

I like the "I don't make assumptions" since I quite often do...I definitely need to work on this a bit...though I will say...I am a lot better. Since I am more mindful of this now I do find myself giving the "benefit of the doubt" a lot more.

Dr. Wayne Dyer talks about how a lot of our suffering stems from "looking to be offended" if we look to be offended then we will find it...if we assume that we won't be offended or that others don't mean to offend us then we wont' be. We have no real way of knowing the motivations of others so let's not assume they are out to get us kwim. But maybe they aren't, maybe they are just living their own reality and it's just opposite of ours.
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#9 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 12:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allgirls
Dr. Wayne Dyer talks about how a lot of our suffering stems from "looking to be offended" if we look to be offended then we will find it...if we assume that we won't be offended or that others don't mean to offend us then we wont' be. We have no real way of knowing the motivations of others so let's not assume they are out to get us kwim. But maybe they aren't, maybe they are just living their own reality and it's just opposite of ours.

Well said..I spend a lot of time waiting for my h to piss me off somehow.

Lisa: Homeschooling Mum of ds, 8 and dd, 6
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#10 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 01:06 PM
 
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I, too, have a tendency to feel offended by, in our case, obnoxious behaviour.

That is where the second agreement (of The Four Agreements) comes in handy.


Not taking things personally is a huge one for me, especially when it comes to children. One of my issues with my dh is how he behaves with/toward the dc at times. It is then that the mama bear in me comes out to get all huffy and protective -- I'm feeling offended by dh's behaviour toward the dc, and I feel/behave defensively. It happens when he's in a grumpy mood.
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#11 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 01:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lisa72
I spend a lot of time waiting for my h to piss me off somehow.

Yeah, unfortunately, this builds into a vicious cycle where the woman is all pumped up and alert, hyper-vigilant, waiting for the proverbial other shoe to drop. Sometimes she may even over-react or mis-interpret something because she's so used to these things happening that she's expecting it. But the man has co-created this, too, by his own behaviour.
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#12 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 01:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by May May
Yeah, unfortunately, this builds into a vicious cycle where the woman is all pumped up and alert, hyper-vigilant, waiting for the proverbial other shoe to drop. Sometimes she may even over-react or mis-interpret something because she's so used to these things happening that she's expecting it. But the man has co-created this, too, by his own behaviour.

very true...and we are products of our environment...but we can't change the man, we can only change our reactions to the man...and actually maybe by being an example and having a different reaction the man will choose to change and grow himself...

I have a very dear personal friend who had a vicious temper..her husband also had a pretty volatile personality though both of them are darlings they had very dramatic fights when they had them...she started meditation and started changing her reactions to his behaviour...ie coming home late, she would meditate and think through it and greet him kindly and be willing to see him anytime he came home...eventually he started coming home earlier and earlier because home was a nicer place to come to.
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#13 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 02:14 PM
 
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Those are good points, allgirls.
Reminds me of one of the things our marriage counsellor said to us over and over again:


"It only takes one person to stop arguing."
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#14 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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more coucel from my buddhist friend (typos and all)~

hope you will encourage him little by
little,,,building faith like water gently builds from
a small trickle tp a might river, eventually joining
the ocean!

With patience a small drip of water wears away the
hardest stone

Men especially need to be gently supported and
encouraged---never pushed...and if they resist, we get
to ask ourselves, 'am I pushing instead of
encourageing?


I'm loving reading your insights


blessings~~

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#15 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 05:34 PM
 
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a quote that stuck with me though I have no idea who to attribute it to is~

before enlightenment..chop wood
after enlightenment..chop wood


in other words nothing really ever changes in the world around us...we are all surrounded by the same reality and our own perspective is the only difference. If we know a different perspective then it changes everything even if all the reality around remains the same.
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#16 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 06:45 PM
 
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Wondering if you're into the stars, mystic~mama?


From an astrological perspective, you're right at the end of the middle of your first Saturn return. That means you're coming into your full power as an adult. Society tells us we're no longer juveniles by 18 or 21, but on a spiritual level we are still blooming until our Saturn return, which occurs from approximately 27-29. It means you know yourself better now and are more fully-rooted in your being than ever before (in this lifetime); it's a real milestone-marker in your growth as a human, and, of course, carries over into all your relationships in a major way.


~~~
I like the thoughts from your friend.
My friends and I discuss these topics often IRL and we've agreed that the most important thing you can do in order to realize and manifest the concepts your friend mentioned (i.e. to maintain those levels of patience and grace that produce the small drips of water ) is to


Take Care of Yourself



Yes, I feel strongly about the above thought.
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#17 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 06:48 PM
 
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Peeking in...

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#18 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 08:15 PM
 
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Oh wow, this thread is amazing. I'll definitely be reading. That thing about the stars is fascinating, because one of my husband's biggest complaints about me is that I'm "always changing" (we met when I was 18! duh!) And now I'm 27 and feel more like "myself" than ever, but I can't really get him to understand this.
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#19 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 10:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webjefita
Oh wow, this thread is amazing. I'll definitely be reading. That thing about the stars is fascinating, because one of my husband's biggest complaints about me is that I'm "always changing" (we met when I was 18! duh!) And now I'm 27 and feel more like "myself" than ever, but I can't really get him to understand this.

Yeah...people have said this to me...and it really is wierd to me...ever since I can remember I have evolved and changed but some people think this is unnusual...gives me the feeling they are not evolving somehow...I mean don't we all grow and change through out our lives? Wouldn't it get boring if we were at the same level at 30 as we were at 20?
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#20 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 10:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by allgirls
...I mean don't we all grow and change through out our lives? Wouldn't it get boring if we were at the same level at 30 as we were at 20?
i'm like you in that i'm always looking for ways to grow and change and to be more and more true to myself and discover myself over the years. however, i don't believe that everyone grows and changes through their lives. i have had people say to me that they are done growing that they want to change nothing about themselves. sadly, i believe this to be true of many people.

thanks for the thread, i will be checking back in i also have some personal things i can work on related to the 4 agreements.

cheers!
mandi

Midwifery student , Mama to my 4 amazing kids. treehugger.gif

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#21 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 10:52 PM
 
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mandib50..yeah...I been thinking about it...and I could come up with many examples of people who have the same opinions, attitudes now as they did 20 years ago...mmmmmmmmmmm...and many of them are very unhappy in their lives...my ex comes to mind
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#22 of 236 Old 06-02-2005, 10:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by May May
From an astrological perspective, you're right at the end of the middle of your first Saturn return. That means you're coming into your full power as an adult. Society tells us we're no longer juveniles by 18 or 21, but on a spiritual level we are still blooming until our Saturn return, which occurs from approximately 27-29. It means you know yourself better now and are more fully-rooted in your being than ever before (in this lifetime); it's a real milestone-marker in your growth as a human, and, of course, carries over into all your relationships in a major way.
I would love to hear more on this. I just turned 28 and am finding it difficult to jive with dh. I think it's me since I'm pretty sure he is exactly the same.

Also, since we just had a child after being together for 12 years, it is kind of weird to find out so much new stuff about someone so far into the game.

I'm in for this change and I really love:
before enlightenment..chop wood
after enlightenment..chop wood
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#23 of 236 Old 06-03-2005, 02:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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may may~


after I posted re my bday I had a thought about the thread getting into astrology...what you wrote about the saturn return, wow, thats right where I am at My friend said something to me before I moved away, something about congratulations for coming into my full woman power...Can you tell me about my compatability with Sagitarius (dh 11-24-73)?

what sign is everyone?

turning negatives into positives or "poison into medicine"~~~

At dinner, I asked dh if I could use the car tomorrow a.m and bring it back to him on his lunch break...he sighed deeply and said maybe....then said fine in a way which seemed like he was not fine about it...soooo I tried discussing the car issue (I always *try* and discuss issues) because I wanted to know why he acts so put out when I ask for the car which is hardly ever...he would NOT discuss it (not at all unusual) and ended up telling me to F off more than once (after he left the table without finishing his food) when I was insisting he tell me...we have been thru this before and never got anywhere...I got extremely frustrated and I called him an a~hole a few times, without raising my voice...I was totally calm, on the outside at least, I gave up and left the room and cried out of total frustration because he was not doing what I wanted him to do!!

I decieded to chant, dd sat beside me to chant also (dd in the other room, picked up on our vibes and was acting a bit pissy)so I decieded to chant gongyo & say prayers, so put what I have been learning in this buddhism into practice, I chanted with all my heart about what was happening, it energized and calmed me down and I realized that I need to take reasponsiblity for myself and forget about what he was doing...so I got dd and I ready and we left to go to the stores...I said bye to dh and asked if he wanted anything he kind of rolled his eyes at me then I gave him an awesome wink (I'm not much of winker but this one came naturally) and was out the door...I had to call him to ask a question and something had changed in his attitude. I talked to him again when he called me to ask me to pick up something for him...everything was nice between us after that...problem solved.
I turned a negative into a positive....I acted instead of reacted and the situation totally turned around...for a second I thought I dont want to stay with dh because he is like this (my pattern) but it only lasted a second...Looking back on it, it seems like a simple solution but, at the time it didnt feel that way...last night at a chanting group, a Japanease woman we call Grandma who has been chanting for 50 years was talking about this, she said that in Buddhism we begin to look forward to challenges because we know we can turn them into positives.... : I'm really encouraged by this experience so I thought I would share it here

many blessings~~

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#24 of 236 Old 06-03-2005, 11:08 AM
 
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mystic mama...sounds like you are putting your practice into action in your life...way to go...my husband does the sigh thing too...it's such a passive-aggressive act...I used to be offended by it too...then I decided that I would respond to him as though he hadn't done it.

For intance in your example..here is how I would have done it now as opposed to before studying Buddhism...because I am a litttle more mindful.

"can I use the car on tomorrow morning and bring it back on your lunch break?"

"sigh, fine"

"oh good, I really need it..you're the best" (ignoring all the sighing and fining-will meditate on that later) smile at him and go on with dinner.

(in that entire conversation I would be relying on #1 and #2 of the 4 agreements)

then the chanting with dd etc...the after-reaction was great! Love the


You know what...my hubby never really does the sigh much any more...I don't know if he made the conscious decision or if it was a direct result of not getting some kind of payoff from it(a sense of power maybe, habit most likely)

or maybe I just don't notice it anymore
bring on the next challenge!
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#25 of 236 Old 06-03-2005, 12:11 PM
 
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THis is a great thread...I'm always changing, learning, exploring etc which I think slightly irrated my h. He has begun to accept that about me. I too find that if we do not let his pissy mood effect us all seems to be well.

I Love that is that simple. I still find it hard sometimes, I find If I am disciplined enough during the day with my thoughts, remembereing that I can control my thoughts, it's my brain, It's ok to be happy.( thats my little mantra I think) Then when H comes home and is tired and grumpy, if I can maintain that mood, he cheers up and we have a GREAT time together.

Two books that I find really helpful; "Creative visualization", by Shakti Gawain, and "Meditation", by Sogyal Rinpoche. Both of these books can be picked up, even for 5mins when the kids are driving me nuts and I feel better.



I'm on the cusp, Scorpio/Sagg. ( Nov22)

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#26 of 236 Old 06-03-2005, 12:29 PM
 
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oh...with regard to changing yourself, your perspective and your reaction...you also have to do it without expectation...don't expect others to change, don't expect too much...just let it be as it is and accept what happens as what is supposed to happen...in other words don't change yourself and improve yourself with an eye to it affecting and changing your partner for the better...just do it to change yourself...your partner may or may not change/improve...it doesn't matter...it's your "self" you are improving.

just needed to add that

I don't remember a great change around that age at all...I had my second child at 29...mmmm...for me my biggest time of change was in 1998 when my father died from cancer...it was the worse time of my life and the most life altering time and for the better....sounds awful but I took it as a huge life lesson and made conscious decisions to live for now because that's all we have...I was 31 - 32 at the time.

eta...it was also the beginning of the end of my first marriage...he just couldn't accept my growth and also he was an alcoholic...the more growing I did the more abusive to alcohol and me he became...I finally left him...a couple years later.

I am 39 now and I am an Aries...yep..definitely a ram here! my birthday is April 8
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#27 of 236 Old 06-03-2005, 12:47 PM
 
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Great thread! I'm in!

Will post more later when the kids aren't rioting in the living room.
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#28 of 236 Old 06-03-2005, 12:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allgirls
oh...with regard to changing yourself, your perspective and your reaction...you also have to do it without expectation...don't expect others to change, don't expect too much...just let it be as it is and accept what happens as what is supposed to happen...in other words don't change yourself and improve yourself with an eye to it affecting and changing your partner for the better...just do it to change yourself...your partner may or may not change/improve...it doesn't matter...it's your "self" you are improving.
Yes....it took me ages to figure that out. Sometimes it's easier than others to get there. I find it easier in the summer to be calm and centered, in the winter, things go a bit nuts. The older I get however, I'm 32, the more this feeling comes. My expectations are different, of myself and my husband. I'm slowly learning not to be as dissapointend by the things he does, and realise how complex and strange all people can be and accept that, rather than critisize him, expecting everything to be "perfect". Life just isn't like that is it?
One of the dom abuse women I talked to a few months ago gave me a really good quote..."own your sh*t", which I think can be used in many different contexts.
I'm rambling now, sorry

Lisa: Homeschooling Mum of ds, 8 and dd, 6
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#29 of 236 Old 06-03-2005, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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allgirls,

passive agressive definitly describes my dh...his way of dealing with things frustrates me immensly...sometimes I can keep my positive mind attitude but other times it gets to me :

I feel like if I just smile and say okay thanks, I will have to deal with him not speaking to me for the whole next day probably, he can give the silent treatment forever it seems like...and then I get frustrated even more so I always try and deal with it/talk it out right then which usually isnt that helpful either and I will end up being PO'd at him for how he is treating me...yesterday was a victory for me in that I took reasponsiblity and changed the situation.

Dh will not or does not know how to communicate so its rare when we can talk something out...I have to approach him at just the right time in just the right way and usually and pull the words out of him practically, its tiring.

lisa72 Quote:
Originally Posted by allgirls
oh...with regard to changing yourself, your perspective and your reaction...you also have to do it without expectation...don't expect others to change, don't expect too much...just let it be as it is and accept what happens as what is supposed to happen...in other words don't change yourself and improve yourself with an eye to it affecting and changing your partner for the better...just do it to change yourself...your partner may or may not change/improve...it doesn't matter...it's your "self" you are improving.



so true! this is something I'm working at...could this be our 6th agreement?



Yes....it took me ages to figure that out. Sometimes it's easier than others to get there. I find it easier in the summer to be calm and centered, in the winter, things go a bit nuts. The older I get however, I'm 32, the more this feeling comes. My expectations are different, of myself and my husband. I'm slowly learning not to be as dissapointend by the things he does, and realise how complex and strange all people can be and accept that, rather than critisize him, expecting everything to be "perfect". Life just isn't like that is it?
One of the dom abuse women I talked to a few months ago gave me a really good quote..."own your sh*t", which I think can be used in many different contexts.
I'm rambling now, sorry


"own your shit"~~ totally!

kind of like~

"walk it off" ~my sister

re growing and changing~

for the past 7 years I have been on a conscious journey of self growth and I have transformed myself compared to who I used to be...every day, week, month I feel enormous amounts of growth & change in myself, thats human revolution, that is LIVING!!

blessings~~~

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yep....the 6th agreement...

I think that probably goes to "attachment" being the source of our suffering...

in a relationship we are often "attached" to how we want/expect our partners to respond...if we can let go of that attachment then we will no longer suffer as a result of their not behaving the way we would like them to.

and even though we label it "passive-aggressive" is it really aggressive? We interpret it as aggressive because as humans and particularly female humans we often see a motive that isn't there...maybe it's just the way he is...passive. Maybe he thinks that the way he is answering you/communicating with you is ok or maybe he is aware that he is failing at communication and that makes him insecure...maybe he just doesn't know how.

And maybe he is doing it on purpose to irritate you...that may be so but I would give him the benefit of the doubt...I would work from the assumption that that is just the way he is. Your trying to "make" him discuss things teh way you like to probably does nothing but get him to shut down...from a feeling of inadequacy and insecurity. I do that when someone points out my faults/weaknesses.

You are on a good path...

btw...my road is a little easier...my hubby now is a pretty good communicator and we are quite connected. We never argue and we never name call...actually he is the best person I know. I am better because he is so awesome and I think he is a better person because of me as well.
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