ever since shortly after dd was born. and it's just not been possible logistically, with nursing babies and the busy schedule of friends.
i think dream groups probably work best IRL but as i was falling asleep last night, it occurred to me that an MDC dreamgroup could work very well!
is anyone else interested?
i would want to follow jeremy taylor's guidelines for setting up and providing feedback to dreamers. i have his dreamwork book and a newer one wending its way to me from amazon.com.
in a nutshell, DREAMWORK offers some basic dream interpretation concepts culled from the various schools/philosophies and encourages you to use your intuition to parse your own dream's meaning.
he also offers some wonderful guidlines for helping others to interpret dreams, in particular, that each person should preface their suggestions with "if it were my dream" and that even if someone is 100 percent conviced they know what an image is about in someone else's dream, unless the dreamer has a tingle/aha/realization when they hear that interpretation, it's not valid for them. (he explains why in the book.) i think those are great rules for keeping the process respectful and ensuring that everyone feels that they "own" their own dreams.
he also cautions people not to join a dream group if there's something going on in their lives that they want to hide, because it will manifest in a dream, in ways the dreamer doesn't recognize but others easily do!
and lastly, it's important to make a commitment to participate in the group. that is what allows you to remember dreams, your intention to process them is like an invitation for your deep mind to open up the channels of communication.
so, all that said,
anyone want to join me and say, post a dream once a week, then offer your input to fellow group members on their weekly dreams?
eagerly awaiting any responses,
Sounds great, but I'm a coward!
If I ever decide I have nothing tlo hide, I'll come back!
Good luck finding dreamers!
sueami, I'm game! I had an awesome dream the other night and was really wanting to share it here but just couldn't think of how to do it! Crazy, I know
I'll just go ahead and tell it...
My best gf's mom died a few years ago. I promised her I would look out for her dtr (she's 10 yrs younger than me). I've had a few dreams involving her since she died. This one the other morning was significant to my life situation right now. I am surprisingly unemployed right now. I won't get into all that right now, but will say I've been open to learning which direction to take.
Linda (her name) was in my dream, didn't say anything in the dream, I received more like a psychic message and feeling of peace. She was in a dress shop, trying on a beautiful dress and she looked soooo beautiful. Not much more to the dream, other than me waking up, thinking about what she did for a living (was a financial planner) and asking myself some questions about that. I had never considered it for myself until now.
Upon awakening I knew I needed to phone her dtr (my best gf) and tell her about my dream. She immediately said, "what did she say to you?" and I blurted out "to become a financial planner" and I proceeded to ask her questions about her mom's career. She was surprised too, as she said she NEVER thinks about her mom's career much and suddenly was asking herself the answers to the same questions I came to ask her.
Needless to say, I find my dreams very informative and helpful. They are a huge part of my life. Looking forward to hearing of other's experiences and sharing more of my own.
Hope we aren't the only ones!
hey, susan61, i'm glad to hear you're interested! we susans have to stick together.
thanks for sharing your dream, i love it when dreams answer waking life questions like that! i wonder what linda's trying on the beautiful dress meant to you?
lets see if anyone else expresses interest (probably not the best time of year to be trying to start something like this. i can barely managed to post the last few days.
thanks, mamaDsofi, for your encouragement. whenever you decided to live a clean life, feel free to join us!
i want to join in, although i usually forget my dreams because im awakened by ds to nurse and suddenly all vanishes BUT last night i dreamed that i was with a tall dark haired & skin woman and then we hugged each other and our wombs were together and then we began to produce lots of warmth, everything was getting really warm i remember that much!
wow, luma, that's an intense dream! it sounds like it was tapping into some deep, primal energies. (oops, i'm supposed to say, if it were my dream...does that woman feel like an aspect of yourself? )
hey, i'm very glad you're interested. i have the same problem that you do. ds wakes every 1 1/2 to 3 hrs and on the shorter end of that schedule there's no way in heck i'd actually wake myself up to write/tape record any dreams. a functional amount of sleep takes priority, so i tend to only remember the ones i have right before waking, if i'm lucky to wake at the end of a dream cycle...
lets hope we get a couple more dreamers on board, then i'll try to find the time to type up some suggestions from taylor's book to get us started. i'm very excited!
I second on the lack of sleep affecting ones dreams. It wasn't until recently, when dd2 finally allowed me to get a decent, uninterrupted sleep, that my connection to the dreamworld was re-established. I was soooooo happy!
Hang in there dreaming mamas - it will return!
I read once that an aid in remembering dreams was to stay in the same position you wake up until you memorize the dream and then move, for me its like that, when I move is like all the pieces of a puzzle move and diappear. If I can remain still I can remember but thats unusual because of the nursing positions I have to asume first thing in the morning
sueami: I dont feel like she was an aspect of myself, although it could be, this was a different kind of dream, the woman was somewhat frightening, but I wasnt scared, there was a "no fooling around or time wasting"attitude and look in her eyes, she was really tall, very dark skin, and brows, and hair, and her eyes were strong, I have been actually trying to think about what race or country could she be from... her nose was very straight and fine but big, and she was slim. Her eyes very black, her brows too... as I said she was really tall.
So, I too hope that more dreamers join in!
Hi, dreamer here
My dreams puzzle and disturb me. Briefly, I grew up with an abusive father who my mum divorced when I was 17. But every dream I have, whether it be about my dad or not, is set in the house where I grew up. Often I dream about my dad as well, that my mum has taken him back and that we are all trapped in the house again. It is really frightening. I really wondered if there were such things as dream counsellors, as I really need to understand this, but I guess this group full of wise MDCers is good enough!!! I'd really like to let go of this dream, as he holds me back in my waking life. I have other dreams occasionally as well, and will be happy to share them as they occur. I warn you though, I am a very vivid dreamer!!!
Lucy don't worry, my dreams are very vivid and strange sometimes too.
I don't know how we are to approach responding to other's dreams, sueami ??
What I've done for myself in situations that I dream about over and over (obviously trying to work it out), I make a conscious effort to dream about a positive direction I'd like to move the situation towards.
I'm so grateful for the wealth of knowledge within our dreamworlds.
the little ones are demanding my attn right now, but i wanted to post this link to give you dreamers a chance to browse jeremy taylor's site for instruction and some idea of how he reccds we work with dreams. i havn't explored it yet myself, will do so when i get a chance. i did just get a second book by him. welcome sdmummy! your dream is very interesting! more as soon as i get a chance...www.jeremytaylor.com
edited to add:
if you're pressed for time, at least check out his dreamwork toolkit, under the dreamwork link, and cyberdreamwork. that should give us a common starting point here. although his common dreams link is fun too and gives you an idea of how he interprets dreams...
since the kids are self-entertaining for the moment, i just wanted to respond to luma's elaboration of her dream...
if this were my dream, i might consider the idea that the dark-haired, dark-skinned woman was a shadow aspect of myself. one interpretation of dreams is that all characters in them are aspects of ourselves. (and there are supposedly many many layers to every dream so other interpretations of this figure are also just as possible and equally valid. taylor asserts that dreams are incredibly complex and our minds can pack an unbelievably dense and rich message into even the simplest images/scenes). the reason this might seem like a shadow aspect of myself is that she is scary but you are not scared of her (because she's you). i think shadow aspects of ourselves can include parts of us that we haven't fully developed as well as bad things that happened to us, emotions that we don't want to acknowledge and parts of ourselves that frighten us for some reason. i'm struck by her sense of urgency and her strength. are you ttc, thinking about having children, worried about running out of time? have you had a pap smear lately? could you be teling yourself something about your fertility or the health of your reproductive organs? is there some aspect of your being a mother that she is trying to communicate about? is being strong an issue with you in some way? these are just the questions that come to mind for me...
and sdmummy, if this were my dream (and i've had some similar ones!) i'd consider the common dream interpretation of house as self. i'd maybe take it as a msg that i need to revisit that 17yo self, that there are unresolved issues that my deeper consciousness wants me to address. (duh, i know. doesn't exactly tell you how to resolve them). i think i'd take this dream, if it were mine, as an indication that i need to work through this part of my past, maybe with a therapist. (fwiw, my therapist, when i first started seeing her, was so excited to hear that i kept having recurring house dreams. i thought they were about my anxiety over just buying my first house but she said they were an indication that i was ready to begin doing this sort of personal growth work.) and as for the dreams where your mom specifically takes him back and you are trapped in that same house, i'm don't have as many ideas to offer. if it were my dream, i'd consider that maybe i needed/wanted to talk to my mom about what happened? ask why she stayed with him as long as she did? come to some understanding that would relieve me of the worry that she could yet draw me back into such a dangerous situation?
susan61, luma, any thoughts?
susan, does the dream website answer your questions about how to respond to dreamers within the group? you point out that we should probably establish a protocol here. do we start a different thread for each person's dream or does that clutter up the personal growth board? do we keep it in one thread and do one dream a week? what are your thoughts? and we need to talk about issues of confidentiality. taylor raises this on his website. is the anonymity of cyberspace enough or do we have on-line personas that we want to protect? should we conduct the dream group through personal messages? how do each of you feel about this?
i think i'm comfortable posting my dreams as a thread, but i'm open to any options.
gotta run and moderate an escalating confrontation.
wow thats amazing sueami, I usually tend to think that every character in my dream is an aspect of myself, although this time somehow it was different because the dream didnt change much as dreams do, we were just holding each other and producing warmth and it was very pleasant as well as powerful. But it could be that it was an aspect of myself! This dream happened 1 or 2 days after I had my 1st bellydancing show in a theather, I was so scared to do it but everything went fine and I enjoyed it immensely. The night after the show, I woke up feeling really relaxed and warm and next night i had the dream, so maybe it could be that I managed to dance through my fear and enjoyed it and produced something really pleasant even though I was doing something scary for me???????
I dont know these are just free thoughts! Still, Im intrigued by her features, this is cool!
And about Lucys dream, someone told me once to identifiy all the emotions that the dream brings up, and almost forget about the content, so I would identify like you said fright, and what else? Maybe I would think that I, as a little girl, was still frightened of that man?
just wanted to ask all of you what do you personally think about this, quoted from sueami's post above
one interpretation of dreams is that all characters in them are aspects of ourselves.
I'd like to participate in this. I have several vivid dreams a night, usually. Esp. if I'm going thru a growth. My dreams are usually very weird and sometimes intense. But, I'd be willing to share them and get insight from others. And, offer any insight I have.
|one interpretation of dreams is that all characters in them are aspects of ourselves.
I don't agree w/this, altho I do think that what the characters are or are not doing in the dreams represent aspects of ourselves.
i wanted to post a few excerpts from the dream work book before i fell alseep, in case they help anyone...
these are general dream work suggestions:
make a written record of your dream, no matter how you record them initially (i use a tape recorder sometimes)
record them in the present tense. give your dream a title. the moment of picking a title is often a doorway into insight.
you are the only one who can know what meanings and significance your dream holds. the "aha" feeling is the only reliable touchstone of dreamwork.
however that tingle test is only a positive test, which is to say that the absense of a tingle doesn't necc. mean that an idea is wrong, it may be or you may not be prepared to acknowledge some aspect of the whole truth about yourself at that moment.
experiment with different ways of recording yoru dreams. draw pictures of them, write poems about them.
do not ignore dream fragments, which are often an image carefully edited to make as economic anc clear a symbolic statement as possible.
remember that every dream has many meanings and many levels of meaning and don't get too dazzled by the first or second set of tingles you have.
review all your dreams periodically, looking for new patterns.
suggestions for group dream work:
share dreams in present tense as much as possible.
every dream has multiple meanings. one of the reasons group dreamwork is so rewarding is that the different ideas, projections and intuitions of others will touch a much wider range of possible meanings than working alone.
what is said about a dream always reflects the personality and symbol structures of the person making the comment as much or more than anything in the dream itself.
spooky things occur in dreams frequently; don't ignore or repress any aspect of your experience just because you don't understand it.
after a dream has been shared, deal first with any questions of clarification in the narrative. then address feeling responses, intuitions, ideas about meaning and metaphor, etc.
understand you can never come to the end of possible meanings for any dream, so decide when you've done your collective best and move on.
and lastly from a chapter titled some elements that are always present in dreams (he argues that the different schools and styles of dream work emphasize different universal aspects of dreaming and are not mutually exclusive) :
every dream comes in the service of wholeness and the effort to harmonize inner and outer life
every dream contains an element of sexual desire.
every dream contains an element of unconscious wish fulfillment
every dream depicts elements of the dreamer's personality and vital energies
every dream contains an element of reflecting the physical health and condition of the body at the moment of the dream
every dream has an element drawn from the memories of the preceding day or two; it's important to ask why that particular event instead of some other has been woven into the fabric of the dream. (this speaks to the idea that every element of the dream is specifically chosen for its msg, no matter how random or odd it may seem. lots of puns and wordplay in dream meaning)
and this chapter actually goes on a great deal more, but i'm running out of steam, so i'll stop here.
good night, and fruitful dreaming...
edited to add:
glad to hear that you're interested in doing this too, chaka! i look forward to hearing your interpretations!
Thanks for your interpretation of my dream Sueami- it all makes sense. I have felt for a while that these dreams are telling me I have to resolve my past, I have just been unwilling to listen (too painful to rehash). But it may be the only way to stop them.
Luma, I think your belly dancing experience may totally have something to do with your dream. Maybe that was YOU you dreamt about, with the warmth eminating from the stomach area. You said the woman in your dream was dark (you are dark) and tall- an exaggerated version of you? If you were feeling confident about your performance, you may have been embracing (literally) the side of you that is more powerful and expressive. Sorry if I'm not expressing myself very well.
And by the way Luma, I'm glad your dance went well. Simone told me how nervous you were. It must be a great form of self expression
BTW Luma, your postbox if full
just cleared the pm box, Lucy!
thanks for your interpretation, and you expressed yourself very well! Yes, matter of fact this bellydancing experience has been very healing for me in many ways, I have always been kinda tomboyish, I grew up in between 2 brothers and loved climbing up trees etc, and hated skirts, dolls... Being a male was favored in my parenst house so it was a very helpful survival tool then, but now I feel that motherhood, pregnancy and bellydancing are helping me become a full womyn, and Im just realizing that maybe thats why is hard for me to accept that amazing woman in my dream as ME!?! but ok ok I will, it was an aspect of myself, a powerful, beautiful, warm and mmmm tall aspect of me!!
Although she could also be a goddess saying hi in the dreamland
sueami, thats a very helpful post thanks!
fruitful dreaming to you all too! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Luma, I just posted to you in Tao!!!!
luma, i meant to saythis last night but i was really tired. i love how your bellydancing experience informs the dream's meaning! with that information, to me it seems like a marvelously affirming dream, with an unexplored aspect of yourself embracing you and warming you with her energy and vitality! congratulations on exploring new territory and expanding yourself with your dancing!
I want to join...I try to interpret my dreams and use them to help me and it feels very good. For years the majority of my dreams I would remember were very scary...being chased,someones trying to get me,that sort of stuff. But recently I have been having no scary dreams and actually good feeling ones. Heres one I had a few nights ago....Me and my best friend,boyfriend and my dd are walking in a poor part of a town close to where I live...we are walking on a street and it goes up into a big hill...we walk up it and go in a store at the top...we are browsing, feels like we are shopping...its a gift store and I remember looking at a necklace...I buy something, i think a phone and as we are leaving there are security guards checking our bags...when we go home my niece is there and my boyfriend and I walk her and dd to the park which has hills and hills of grass. The end...
Do any of you know what dreaming that someone is frozen is supposed to mean? I had this very powerful dream a couple of years ago, and I haven't been able to find out what that meant. It was my mother, if that helps. Maybe I should tell the whole dream...
Well, I was riding in a car w/my step-dad (he was driving) and we found my mother, frozen, along the road. I tried so hard to unfreeze her, but nothing worked. I remember yelling at her, but not in an angry way, just frustrated. And, we put her in the trunk and drove off. At some point in this same dream, my step-dad tried to do something sexual with me, but nothing happened.
My step-dad never molested me or anything IRL, but I have felt that he had perverse feelings toward me growing up. I think I know what this dream meant, but I'm still working it out.
gosh Chaka, that is a tough one. Your mother being frozen seems to signify that either you or she has/had repressed feelings, maybe when it comes to your relationship. I'm not sure, it'll be interesting to see what others make of this dream.
Just another though- you say "I remember yelling at her, but not in an angry way, just frustrated"- it sounds like you were trying to tell her something at that time in your life, but that you felt that it wasn't getting thorugh to her- hence the ice??
Not sure about the sexual advances by your stepdad, but what you said may explain it.
hi all, sorry i haven't been around. out-of-town family visit has kept me from mdc. i have a few minutes now, so thought i'd try to catch up a bit.
it seems like this is something people want to do on an adhoc basis, posting dreams as they think of them. we can try that, although i have found that having a deadline to discuss a dream somehow either calls them up or helps me remember them more easily. it never failed when i was working with dreams with my psychologist that i'd have a really interesting one a day or two before my appt, just as i was thinking of cancelling for lack of material.
that's why i was thinking that a weekly posting, maybe on a sunday or monday, might prompt us to have a more productive dream life. i think we may also need to add some personal details when we post dreams, to help others offer useful comments. since we don't know each other irl, we don't know the context the dreams are coming out of. i'm thinking of your belly dancing experience luma, and how that adds meaning to your dream.
welcome, amymarie! that's great that you can remember and recount your dreams with so much detail. i'm going to throw out a bunch of things that come to mind to see if any give you that tingle of recognition...
if this were my dream, i would wonder whether walking through a poor neighborhood and then going up hill to a shopping district might say something about the economic/financial progress going on in my life. gifts imply an abundance over and above just having your needs met. what does a necklace symbolize for you? it might mean to me an aspect of beauty and wealth, or in a different vein being collared/restricted. a phone to me seems very much about communicating (is there someone you need to feel heard by? someone you want to say something too?) security guards searching bags might indicate a feeling that i am not really entitled to these gifts (personal abilities are also called gifts--do you feel you have a gift for communication? a gift of beauty?) or i am under suspicion for having them. what does your niece represent for you? how do you feel about her? a park with hills (again.) of grass is a mix of bucolic and tranquil with uneven terrain, a tough climb, maybe, an inability to see very far around you? how did the park feel to you, what emotions did it elicit?
and chaka, a very powerful sounding dream. if it were my dream, i'd consider the various meanings of being frozen -- unable to move, unable to act, unable to communicate, cold, unloving, unemotional, stopped in time all come to mind.
in my dream, step-dad driving would indicate he is in control of where i am going or what i am experiencing, and i wonder how that felt to you in the dream. okay, exciting, frustrating, frightenening, oppressive?
yelling, but not in anger, is interesting... for me anger is a big component of my frustration, when i feel frustrated i feel angry too. so if this were my dream and i wasn't feeling angry in it i'd wonder if that was being repressed.
putting her in the trunk instead of the car is interesting... some possible interpretations -- she is not treated like a person, she is not included in the trip/experience you are having with your step dad; you are putting her away because you can't reach her, you can't communicate with her.
and then a sexual experience attempted/initiated by your stepdad. I've had some dreams like this with a male relative that made me wonder if i'd repressed molestation, but i was never able to come up with anything, so i had to let it go and assume it was a metaphor for other boundaries being crossed.
i'd be interested to hear if any of these possibilities resonated with you. if it were my dream i'd consider one theme or msg to be that i felt like my mom was unresponsive/not protecting me from my step-dad's inappropriate interest in me, and i might explore the idea of unacknowledged anger/my own frozen emotions towards her.
i have a four year old bouncing on my lap, so i'm going to sign off now.
maybe after christmas we can try to get up and running with this, if you all are willing and interested.
Thanks, SDmummy and Sueami for your responses!
My mother and I definately had a cold relationship. I was not allowed beyond these boundaries she had set up. My interpretation of the dream was that she was never there for me, removed b/c of choice and partially b/c my step-father was in the picture. And, I was trying to get thru to her, but that it was no use. My step-dad was running the show and she was just along for the ride, but it was ruining any chance of a decent relationship with her.
But, the fact that she was frozen has always bothered me. I guess b/c if I go w/my gut feeling on it, my not being able to reach her has more to do w/outside circumstances. Like it's beyond our control. Or, at least beyond mine since I couldn't thaw her out. Does it help to know that ever since I was a little girl, I've felt responsible for my mother? Like, I am here to show her something, teach her something, but she refuses to learn from me. She has always provided for me just fine, so there was never any codependancy going on. But, I just know that my purpose in being her daughter is not getting served and it frustrates me. I have learned to not dwell on it, b/c you can't help ppl who don't want you to, but it is a concern of mine. Sometimes I feel like after I die, my soul is going to suffer b/c I didn't complete my main task in this life (my mother).
Anyway, thanks for reading. That's my "real life" background...
thanks for the background chaka. i'm sorry that your mom was so difficult to have a relationship with. mothers are so primary to our emotional needs, i know...
i wonder if the frzn aspect is the dream's msg to you that you are not responsible for a failure to reach your mom, that she is not able to receive your message?
hi all, Im glad the thread is going!
thanks all for your input on the belly dream, im still thinking about it and I have had other dreams, so sueami, you suggest that we post one dream a week each?
chaka, i have been thinking about your dream and it made me remember one time I had a dream where my hands were frozen and at the time it had to do with anger that I felt I needed to freeze in order to avoid the violence that I could produce with my hands if they were free or not frozen, I dont know if this makes any sense to you? but if it were my dream I would think is some feeling im afraid to express or act upon...????
amymarie, If it were my dream the "security" guards going through my stuff would make me feel the opposite: un-secure, ...
sueami youre right about giving the background...
|Originally posted by sueami
i wonder if the frzn aspect is the dream's msg to you that you are not responsible for a failure to reach your mom, that she is not able to receive your message?
very good interpretation. I feel you are probably correct.
|Originally posted by Luma
I had a dream where my hands were frozen and at the time it had to do with anger that I felt I needed to freeze in order to avoid the violence that I could produce with my hands if they were free or not frozen, I dont know if this makes any sense to you? but if it were my dream I would think is some feeling im afraid to express or act upon...????
I don't understand how that would apply to my mother being frozen. Could you please explain more?
SDmummy: I reread your post abt your dream. I have often dreamt abt my parents (mom & step-dad) and me (sometimes my kids are in it, too), and they were always controlling me in some way. But, unlike IRL, I would argue w/them and yell at them, trying to regain control of my life. We would be in different houses, tho sometimes different dreams would take place in the same house.
If I was having the dreams you have, I would think that there is something significant in my youth that I have not gotten over or learned all the lessons from yet. Maybe fear of your father or being trapped in an abusive relationship w/someone like him. Or, maybe you have someone in your life that displays a lot of the attributes of your father, and that's why these dreams are still occurring in your present life on a regular basis.
One dream/week is fine by me. Should we all keep dream journals, then?
Luma: I have nothing to contribute abt your dream (sorry!). I could envision that woman tho. Sounds like a powerful dream.
chaka, im not sure about how it would apply to your mother being frozen, because I related it to my own dream, (ok this is getting crazier and crazier) but Im going to ramble a lot:
If I think of the dream in terms of "I am every person in the dream and Im my mom in some ways" I would think that my mom part, was afraid to express, feel, act upon something, or just plain afraid because freezing, is like stopping or not-moving, alive but unable to act, and fear freezes. I thought of the dream I mentioned above and it was to me fear to express violent feelings, so I thought maybe there would be an element of that in this dream IF it were mine.
Then wanting to bring her back, to unfreeze her, maybe I would think that a part of me was frozen and that I desperately needed that part of me alive inside of me, nurturing, and that I could try to do that now, that is nurture myself and be my own mom.
Now, if I were to separate the mom from me, I would maybe think that I kinda wanted her to be frozen so I could be with my stepdad (all this is me and IM CRAAAZY!)
And also that I cant feel her and she cant feel me, no matter what I do and this would make me feel very sad indeed.
You know, i went through a stage with my mom where I felt I had to get through to her, it was in my 20's and the way I did it was through lots of touching and holding and kissing, like every time I saw her I would literally jump on her until I felt I had broke through some wall I thought was there.
im sorry if im not making ANY sense, this is harder than I thought!