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#61 of 109 Old 03-05-2003, 12:24 AM
 
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I'm a cancer and so I can be very moody. Yea, I can be crabby.
I actually don't like hurting people's feelings and I hate confrontation. I am more likey to clam up than tell it like it is. However if you catch me in the right , maybe wrong is a better word, mood I will let you know exactly how I feel.
My daughter is a pisces, so is my mother, my father and my mother-in -law. My daughter is a wonderful person but very intense and extremely strong willed. My son is a cancer like his mama.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#62 of 109 Old 03-05-2003, 12:31 AM
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Heather~

Kailey is a Pisces too! She is already showing those intense persnality traits LOL!
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#63 of 109 Old 03-05-2003, 01:45 AM
 
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i am a sagitarius, in a big way, my moon is in sag, too. so that accounts for what a wierd spaz i am, but why the brooding nature? must be that pices rising. honestly, i just miss the cusp of scorpio, and i feel like a scorpio often. but, um, yeah, scorpios can be a bit scarry. i used to have nothing but bad experiences with them, but lately the scorps coming into in my life have been fabulous, like dd. maybe scorpios are an aquired taste, and just not everybody is wise and brave enough to tackle their depth? you know, those water signs, well what can i say but the ocean is deep?
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#64 of 109 Old 03-05-2003, 01:48 AM
 
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T How do you find out your moon sign, rising sign etc..?

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#65 of 109 Old 03-05-2003, 01:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Sheacoby, there are charts you can do on the internet. Birth charts. I'll try to find you a link. Or, you can just search for birthcharts AND astrology or something. Maybe just birth charts alone will do it.
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#66 of 109 Old 03-05-2003, 01:58 AM
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Ah, see...that's what happens when you live in the land of the mullet
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#67 of 109 Old 03-05-2003, 08:57 PM
 
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Geez Chaka, I could have written the same thread starting post! I feel exactly the same way. I dont' want to give up on these friendships I've worked so hard to develop, but I feel we have grown apart, or maybe we were never really very much alike to begin with. I think that with at least one of my friends, she had an image of me that I just didn't live up to, and I guess the real me isn't what she is looking for. Oh geez, it's just too much work to maintain.

I'm with you Debra Baker, my best friends are my sister, my daughters and my daughter-in-law. Well my sons and dh too, of course. I'm blessed to have a close family, but then I worked at it pretty hard all these years I've been mothering them.

Anyway, sorry to jump in here late and go off on a tangent, but it is so good to hear that other women relate to what I'm feeling.

Back to the flow of the discussion, I'm a Leo and I guess I am a little headstrong, but I dont' think I fit the bill as a leader in the traditional sense.

-b
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#68 of 109 Old 03-07-2003, 07:51 PM
 
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I remember how lonely I was before, and I recognize that I still am pretty lonely since my friends don't act how I need them to act, but I feel like something is better than nothing. Sometimes, I feel that way. But, more, I'm starting to feel like I'd rather be alone and friendless.
This statement really hit home with me, because other people are other people, and they are going to act the way they act, and you can change how you PERCEIVE the person, but you can't change the person, kwim?
It does sound like self-sabotage. You feel that you are hopeless and hapless no matter which way you slice the pie, and nothing could be further from the truth. I have read a lot of your posts, and you seem to be a very insightful, intelligent human being. (Assuming you're not a gray alien ) It seems like, for whatever reason, you have made people into an enemy that only exists in your own head. The only reason I'm assuming this is because I am going through it right now. You are projecting out your inner demons and they are mirrored in other people. What you "see" and what is really "there" are two totally different ballparks, kwim?
Beggars can't be choosers. It would be nice if everyone was as intelligent, sensitive, and spiritually aware as us But we are in the minority. I'll bet that just by perceiving people and situations differently you could change them. Just my .02, for what it's worth
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#69 of 109 Old 03-07-2003, 11:54 PM
 
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I remember how lonely I was before, and I recognize that I still am pretty lonely since my friends don't act how I need them to act, but I feel like something is better than nothing. Sometimes, I feel that way. But, more, I'm starting to feel like I'd rather be alone and friendless.
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I think if your friends consistently let you down then it's time to find new friends. I think it's better to be alone for a while and be your own best friend rather than be with people who just aren't there for you.

After being with some real doozies for a while, I realised that I was no longer acting like the supportive, happy friend that I used to be. I became judgmental and negative. Once I broke off those relationships, I got back in touch with my "good friend" self. Now I feel like I really have something positive to offer to a friend. There are a few prospective friends on my horizon, and I think they are so cool! I'd forgotten how nice it is to truly like and respect my female buddies. If you hang out with crappy "friends", you will eventually forget how fun and supportive a good friend is. You will become a lousy friend too. It's such a drain to be with people who don't care about and support you. They are miserable and they want you to be, too. And then you are miserable and unable to attract the kind of supportive people that you really want to be with.

Once you clear out the yucky relationships, you may feel lonely for a while, but if you can ride it out, you will find much better friends.
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#70 of 109 Old 03-08-2003, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I am recieving some great insights and advice tonight! I was just thinking about this and came to the same conclusion, candiland.

I have obviously been projecting an energy that would draw ppl like this to me. So, either I change my energy or I'll keep drawing ppl like this. I've decided to change my energy.

Recently, I stopped biting my tongue and taking "crap" off my flakiest friend. She has stopped bitching so much and bothering me w/her "crap". I feel like our relationship has improved already!

It really is about me. Weird, b/c sometimes I don't see that, but I'm all about taking responsibility for what happens in my life. But, if I am the problem, then I am the solution.

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#71 of 109 Old 03-08-2003, 02:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chaka Falls


It really is about me. Weird, b/c sometimes I don't see that, but I'm all about taking responsibility for what happens in my life. But, if I am the problem, then I am the solution.

This is what I have trouble keeping in perspective; when things in a relationship aren''t good, it's not all just the other person's fault. Somehow I've given permission for the dynamic to be the way it is and ultimately it's my responsibilty to do something about it if it bothers me. Now if I could just REMEMBER that in the heat of the moment!
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#72 of 109 Old 03-08-2003, 02:57 PM
 
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Totally independent from any one particular post . . . I remember in 6th grade my mother told me, "If you are having a problem with everyone Heather, then YOU are the problem." I used to hate hearing that, but now I repeat it to myself a lot. Maybe I am the problem. Maybe I'm too 'set' in my ways to bend and therefore don't want to mess with what it would take (bending-wise) to get involved in a relationship that doesn't seem as easy as I'd like. Some relationships ARE just so much EASIER for one reason or another. I'm still saying I'm a friendship snob.
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#73 of 109 Old 03-08-2003, 04:05 PM
 
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heather, chaka and lalaluna,
your posts have also struck a chord with me. i've been thinking about this thread for the past week and i'm coming to the conclusion that in my case, too, the problem is about me, in a couple of different ways: 1) i feel like i do draw friends sometimes who *need* something from me, (but maybe everyone runs into that, there's always people in the world that have it more together than us and those that have it less together, and if you wait for folks to approach you, you're likely to end up with just needy friends, so i'm not sure how valid this conclusion is) and 2 (i feel very confident of this conclusion) i need to take charge and seek out friends who seem interesting to me, even when i am afraid that either they're *too* together (and will feel about me the way i feel about my needier friends) or that we don't have enough in common. this latter point in particular has been coming up for me over and over again. i have made so many choices/growth moves in my life that there are very few people who are like me in all the ways that seem important to me. if i restrict myself to such friends, i'm going to be very lonely. so, i live in a conservative, actively christian part of socal and i've been very nervous about trying to make friends with women who put their religious beliefs out early in the acquaintance. i'm pretty sure they're hoping i'll say, i'm christian too! and i'm afraid they'll reject me if i say, "my spiritual growth is the most important thing in my life, but it is informed by buddhism." i'm going to have to take that chance though, with a couple of women in particular, who i really like, but whom i've resisted opening up to in this way.
not sure if this is making sense to anyone, i wasn't going to post yet b/c i was still working it out in my head, but the last few posts were too good to ignore!
susan
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#74 of 109 Old 03-08-2003, 04:17 PM
 
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i knew i was still working this one out...:
the other major way in which i want my friends to be like me is in my parenting choices. and there, again, i am not going to find many, if *any* moms in this community who alternative parent to the same degree that i do. and i'm not saying it pridefully, i parent like this b/c i have to, to do otherwise awakens too much pain from my childhood. (and, yes, this makes me question if i'm making the right parenting choices all the time...) that same pain gets awakened when i am around moms who cio, or demean their children in the name of discipline or send their kids crying to preschool or who worry about the stresses their older kids are encountering in public school.
so, almost any other friend i encounter, if she's a parent, is going to trigger me on some issue or another. and that's *my* problem to work out. i'm really digging into it right now and i hope that once i've made some progress i can open up to these women and enjoy their uniqueness and their wonderful, dear souls, wounds (just like mine) and all.
at the deepest level, i feel pretty certain that being able to have deep, nourishing, intimate friendships is directly related to being able to embrace yourself wholly, even the hurt, even the selfish parts, even the insecurities... at least for me. the rest of you are just having bad luck, i'm sure!
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#75 of 109 Old 03-08-2003, 04:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by sueami
so, i live in a conservative, actively christian part of socal and i've been very nervous about trying to make friends with women who put their religious beliefs out early in the acquaintance. i'm pretty sure they're hoping i'll say, i'm christian too! and i'm afraid they'll reject me if i say, "my spiritual growth is the most important thing in my life, but it is informed by buddhism." i'm going to have to take that chance though, with a couple of women in particular, who i really like, but whom i've resisted opening up to in this way.
Susan, without getting into spirituality - because that is obviously another forum . . . I really feel that if these 'christian' women ostracize you for your choice of worship, then they are not, in essence, acting upon their beliefs. I am a Christian, but I would not ever NOT consider developing a close friendship with a buddhist. It goes against what I believe to be at the essence of my belief - and that is to love. We aren't told to 'love only if . . . ,' just to love. And honestly, I believe that is the basis for many belief systems . . . it is just practiced much less in some of the more recognized - and often 'negatively portrayed' (and for good reason) religions - Christianity being one. Oh how we've ostracized ourselves.
Step out for certain if it is what you are ready to pursue, but know that if you are rejected then they didn't deserve the opportunity to develop a meaningful friendship with you anyhow.
Obviously 'commonalities' are important in friendships, but I don't have a checklist to tick off and it isn't all or nothing.
The Christian women you speak of, if they are that way, may find that their children reject their belief system as adults if they are raised to recognize true love and then watch the example of their mothers. Ugggh . . . okay, I should get off this - it is entirely for another forum.
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#76 of 109 Old 03-08-2003, 05:38 PM
 
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Well said hlsanders, and thank you for reminding us all to love unconditionally.

This thread has been healing. It is true that we do tend to repel and attract certian types of people by the energy, or what have you, that we project. At times it is the hustle and bustle of life that makes it so difficult to sustain relationships. I've learned that I have only so much to give to relationships outside of family, and I fear that at present, my friends simply aren't understanding that.

-b
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#77 of 109 Old 03-08-2003, 05:43 PM
 
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barbara, i totally agree w/you on the finite energy issue. there is only so much time and energy in the day, and i know my kids are quite intent (and rightly so) on absorbing as much of mine as possible.
heather, thank you very much for your post! that makes me feel much braver. i think my fears come from experiences in high school, and i just need to see them as leftovers from a much different peer group...
warmly,
susan
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#78 of 109 Old 03-09-2003, 01:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Such a yummy discussion we're having!

Susan, I totally understand the fear of rejection. I tend to think that if ppl are so together, why would they want to hang around me? I'm a puddle of mess. But, I've got this one flaky friend who really seemed to have it together (even her tarot reading predicted that!), but now that I've gotten to know her better, I see all these flaws.

I think part of my problem is that I seek perfection. In myself and in others that I deal with. And, it's difficult to accept less than that from ppl I've chosen to have in my life.

It's really vain, I know.
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#79 of 109 Old 03-09-2003, 02:03 AM
 
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I was discussing a bit of this thread with my husband - and being the 'helpful' man that he is , he informed me that I don't make friends b/c I only leave the house to go to the post office. In other words, he is pointing out my 'home-body-ness.' I have always been this way . . . home is my haven. So, um . . . what are people 'wearing' these days? This hermit wouldn't want to stick out! J.J. :LOL
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#80 of 109 Old 03-09-2003, 05:20 AM
 
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Originally posted by hlsanders
So, um . . . what are people 'wearing' these days?
Well clothes, generally. Maybe this is why you're friendless?

Here's something Chaka's post reminded me of that I haven't thought of in years- about the pursuit of perfection in self and others. An old Sociology prof. I had used to say that the things that bugged us most in other people tended to be the things we most needed to take a look at in ourselves.

Which makes me think that if I'm so fed up with flakiness and not-being-there-ness in friends am I being that way myself? [SIZE=1]maybe on some level...
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#81 of 109 Old 03-09-2003, 12:09 PM
 
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Originally posted by LaLaLuna
Well clothes, generally. Maybe this is why you're friendless?
YES!!! THAT'S IT!!! Oh, thank you for clearing that up!! It was right 'under my nose' the entire time. :LOL
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#82 of 109 Old 03-10-2003, 02:06 AM
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Am I too late to join this discussion? Just today I had an uncomfortable friend epiphany, which has been happening A LOT since I got pg with my now 13 month old DD.

(I'm Sag with Capricorn moon and a full throttle Scorp mother, who happens to be dead now, so I know what you mean about that.)

I am feeling (or am I in fact) so alone and without real friends. I'm sure it has something to do with me being a hard person to assimilate into a group and I do not do the popularity thing well at all. I am sure I have failed to nurture friendships along the way, properly, and I may have harmed them in my selfishness along the way.

Anyway, I found out I was pregnant, very unexpectedly, about 2 years ago. At that time my best friend, a guy, of 17 years (I know the number means little) was engaged to marry a woman who I thought was my friend and who had been trying to get pg too. They are 40 and she was ticking like mad but they weren't getting pg. I flipped out because I was pg alone and dd's father was a real problem at that time. It was a tough, hormonal time for me and I leaned on my friend for support, which he was not giving me at all. He shut the door in my face and wouldn't even talk to me and I was so alone. And I had always had issues about taking proper care of myself, making enough money to care for myself properly, though I've always worked hard I never made a lot of money, so I was afraid of how I would support the new little one with no help. I desperately needed to talk to someone and my friend disappeared emotionally.

My friend's fiancee (the girl I thought was my friend) got threatened when I was pg and she wasn't , yet. then, my friend's mother, who I'd also been close to for 17 years, threw me out of their wedding because the future DIL was threatenedby my being pregnant and was complaining to her. My best friend did nothing, would not speak to me, would not stand up and say that i was his friend and I was still part of their wedding. This started a long period of estrangement where they got pg, got married and had their baby. I had my baby alone during this itme. I have no family who are alive and I actually took a cab home from the hospital with my baby after an emergency c-section. No one came to see her when she was born. What "friends" I had had flown the coop when i got pg. Being around a single mom just wasn't their style.

Time went by and when my baby was about 4 months old I started emailing my friend, the guy, saying we didn't have to be friends but that I really wanted him to see my little baby and to see his baby boy who had just beenborn. it took awhile because he wouldn't talk to me still. In married life he decided he had to defer everything to his wife which I know many people do. Eventually it was my friend's 40th birthday and the wife called me, which was hard to face, but I kept all my hard feelings to myself and accepted the invite to his party, where we all saw each other's babies and where the mother continued to hate me. She still dislikes me and doesn't want me around and treats my baby with indifference whne we are around.

So cut to today. We went to a mutual friend's wake for her grandmother. (a 3rd party girlfriend) this mutual friend also has a baby around my child's age. I have known this mutual friend for 15 years and the new wife has known her for 3, since she met my friend who she married. I looked through a little album of my girlfriend's baby shower that i wasn't invited to because I was ex-communicated by our other friend and his family at that ime and it really hurt me. there was this new wife and the mother who used to be my friend who still hates me, and my best friend all there at the shower and I couldn't come (my baby was 6 months old by then) because they had kicked me to the curb.

I guess the bottom line is that it hurts, these people (without the new wife) had been my family in essence. We'd spent all the holidays together, and so much more it would take a novel to write here, and they just cut me like that at my greatest time of need. Our friend had written in her baby shower scrap book how the mother (of my best friend) had given her $100 for her baby shower. It hurt me a lot, I don't think because of the money, but because this woman had shown 0 support for my baby or me and we are alone and obviously in a position where any kind of even moral support would make all the difference in the world.

Me and the old girlfriend (who had the wake) and my friend's wife all kind of hang around sometimes with the babies, etc. My friend's wife did buy my dd a crib and offers on occassion to watch her when I need to run out for a quick job here and there, so it's not like she is still cold to me. But the two make it clear that they are friends before I can ever be included. They do their married stuff together and I get left out. Today at the wake I felt like they were all distancing from me and i left early becaue I felt shut out. The only comfort I had was on the way home in the car I could feel the pressence of the departed grandmother with us. there was a song on the radio and she was there with us.

I feel very lonely, I feel punished, I feel a little sad for my daughter, wondering if my lack of real friendships will make her have a lonely life while the kids of these other two friends get to have it all.

I have lost so many "friends in the past 2 years since I got pregnant. All of my girlfriends down to the very last one.

I don't think there is a question here. I guess I am just telling my story and feeling pain over it. When I was younger I never thought my life would be this way.
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#83 of 109 Old 03-10-2003, 02:16 AM
 
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.oatmeal, i posted at the same time as you, so i am editing to add a big hug. that sounds so hurtful.

my little revelation last week (since we seem to be in solution mode)- i am supremely insecure and generally untrusting, which makes the friend situation rather sticky. to be my friend, you pretty much need to either already have been my friend for the past several years, come begging on your hands and knees, or else be a member here at MDC. otherwise, i'll figure that you either dont like me, or wont like me when you get to know who i really am.
i just never really realized how closed off i am right now, until someone pointed out to me that i was really armored. my feelings are very easily hurt, so it's easy to see how i got that way- but since relationships are very important in my life, it would behoove me to open myself to both give and recieve love. i think over the years, i have alternated between *no boundaries* and very rigid *boundaries galore*. at this point, balance would be a good thing to strive for.
right now, if i call someone to set up a get togeather, and they accept, i find myself thinking they dont really want to see me, they felt cornered, couldnt think up a good excuse, feel sorry for me, etc... basically i consider every possibility except the one that they might really want to spend time with me. but often, i hear second hand that 'gee, so and so thinks you really dont like them...' when that is not the case at all.
the friends i have now are good, but there are other people around with whom i wish to deepen the connection, so i am going to be more open (with affection, but not necessarily information). because what have i got to lose? and anyway, when i'm all wrapped up in my insecurities, it make me act all nervous and wierd, and then people REALLY dont like me.
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#84 of 109 Old 03-10-2003, 02:20 AM
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Oatmeal!

I just want to you and and you! Could live with us so we can be bestest friends!

Ok, I am a complete dork, but no one should have to feel the way you do!

Your story was so sad. I really ache for you!!

Hey our DD's are pretty much the same age, we already have something in common!

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#85 of 109 Old 03-10-2003, 10:00 AM
 
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Oatmeal . . . your story touched my heart this morning - thank you for sharing. I got all teary reading about your ride home from the hospital in a cab. Uggh! Wish your friend's wife (also 'supposedly' your friend) could have embraced you as women should . . . especially at the amazing moment of new life.

Speaking of MDC women . . . any of you guys get to meet? I have met 2 and another is coming my way next month and we are going to meet! It really is exciting!
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#86 of 109 Old 03-10-2003, 12:00 PM
 
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Hugs to you oatmeal. I do hope you will find new friends that will connect with you and your dd in a way that will provide the support and encouragement that you need. Hugs to you!

Yes yes, I have met a few MDCers irl. Several mamas in the area have gotten together and I am planning to have the group over to my home for morning tea in a week or so.

-b
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#87 of 109 Old 03-10-2003, 01:51 PM
 
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Oatmeal, I really feel for you! But it sounds like its time to make new friends! The door has closed on that chapter of your life with those people. Join a local LLL or put yourself out there to meet new moms at the park, singles moms groups, etc . Maybe someone at work?

I know how lonely it can be when you lose all your friends when you really need support! Hugs to you!!!!
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#88 of 109 Old 03-10-2003, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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oatmeal, This is the perfect forum for you to place your hurt and pain and move on. It's time to stop allowing yourself to be tortured by those ppl. True friends don't just ditch you, esp. when you need them most.

I have a friend (one of the flaky ones...and, who suggested that I might be flaky? cuz I'm not! well, I might be to the flakiest one, b/c I can only take so much! I don't feel obligated to be a good friend to someone who flakes out on me constantly) who is generally toxic for me to be around. I am an emotional sponge, and I have to set up walls around my head and heart in order to be around her. Well, I took a break from her while she was pregnant, b/c it just got to be too much. I understood that I was going thru my own stuff and that was why her predicaments and actions were driving me insane. So, I stopped dealing with her for a few weeks, but I never blamed it on her. I explained to her that I had some stuff to work out within me. Well, she had her baby and told a mutual friend, "I know she doesn't want to talk to me right now, but could you tell her I had the baby? I miss her." Well, I felt *argh* b/c I did want to talk to her and I missed her tremendously, but I had just reached a point of growth, and I had to honor that or I would have drowned in self-pity. So, of course, I went to visit her and the baby at the hospital and we've been "on" since then.

I recognize that I am her only friend. And, I try to be there for her even tho sometimes she is not a very good friend to me (IMO). So, what I'm trying to say is that a true friend doesn't bail on you when you need him/her the most. Even if you're emotionally draining and can be a user. :
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#89 of 109 Old 03-10-2003, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chaka Falls
So, what I'm trying to say is that a true friend doesn't bail on you when you need him/her the most. Even if you're emotionally draining and can be a user. : [/B]
This is their excuse, that they had to pull away because they were getting married and wanted to think about themselves and not what was happening to me and that I was emotionally draining on them - really on the girl. I got totally pissed and put the squeeze on my friend to pay me back the $300 I had spent on the outfit to be in their wedding and it was really ugly, I have to give them that. I still wake up in the middle of the night and feel what it was like to be in the hospital with my little newborn and know we were totally alone, that this girl had basically made off with the only family I have and left me alone with it all.

How can I cut these people out now? The fact is I need them in whatever teeny little shrunken capacity they can offer me but especially my baby. I haven't made new friends in 20 years and there is not much chance of that happening now. I can't just bop over ot the nearest mommy group and make myself at home. It doesn't work that way - escpecially for a single mother - which "normal" mothers don't like at all. I can't assimilate into their married life without a husband of my own and I'm viewed as a liability. There is nothing that I have that they want so why bother with me?

Anyway, I'm still sad about it this morning. I phoned my friend - the guy who used to be my best friend before her got married and told him how I felt from the thing yesterday when I saw the baby shower scrap book. As he so rightfully said back to me, I don't have time to be sad so I better just get over it.

I wish making new friends were that easy. I don't know why the peope I have in my life don't respect me or appreciate me. It must be my fault but I don't know what's wrong with me.
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#90 of 109 Old 03-10-2003, 09:06 PM
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Doin da butt (_/_) (_\_) (_/_) cha cha cha!
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