i am sad - Important Relationship Question! please answer - Mothering Forums
 
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#1 of 26 Old 01-05-2007, 01:16 AM - Thread Starter
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#2 of 26 Old 01-05-2007, 01:40 AM
 
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I urge you to work out as much of this as possible in advance (before baby), and to be clear with him that this is for henceforth. A dear friend thought she had it worked out but DH was under the impression that it was not "permanent." Almost 5 years later, it is the biggest issue in their relationship.
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#3 of 26 Old 01-05-2007, 02:03 AM
 
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It sounds like there are some serious parenting disagreements that should be worked out prior to baby being born. You definitly do not want to come home from work one day to find out that baby has been vac.ed against your will. My advice is to print out the research that you have done and make him read it. It would prove to him that you are not being nutty, but serious. Good Luck
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#4 of 26 Old 01-05-2007, 05:40 AM
 
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I think when two parents disagree, then one parent is the main "kiddo" decider. Kind of like when in a dual religion couple, the child is frequently raised in just one religion.

But I have to wonder why this is such an issue now? I'm sure you have been aware of his eating habits long before this. And those of us who "do" eat meat don't feel like we are doing something dangerous, so I can see why he isn't giving in on this.

He doesn't view his beliefs as wrong and yours as right, just different. This is a person you chose to create a child with. At what point is the give and take in the behaviors and beliefs? In a mature relationship, one partner doesn't say "My way only" and the other partner doesn't say "I'll do it behind your back." There is give and take. Lots of it, sometimes.

Being a parent means dealing with issues, daily, forever really. You aren't even agreeing on some basic simple things. What will happen to this relationship when the going gets tough? Will you both bend or both break?

I don't think you need to "convince" him you are right. I think you should request that he honor your concerns and do these two things for you. But...and it's a big But...what will you give back? How will you negotiate? That's what you must learn to do...negotiate. If wonderful relationships were based on love only, we'd all be still with our first loves. A mature relationship takes much, much more. Don't be afraid to get professional counseling help. Not many of us are born doing this well and many couples need help navigating the waters.
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#5 of 26 Old 01-12-2007, 08:29 PM
 
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Don't have any advice, sorry, but wanted to give you a ...........
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#6 of 26 Old 01-12-2007, 09:11 PM
 
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Well, first, if you're in the USA, and you're not married to him, don't sign paternity papers, and he won't be able to do jack shit medically behind your back. But then again, something happens to you, and he still can't do jack shit for her medically.

That being said. I feel the same way in some thing. I am an EXTREMELY particular eater. I am also very anti-vaccine, BUT, I chose to look up what the deal was with vaccines, and met him halfway. We are vaxing, but I am ONLY willing to vax the ones that are mercury and thimerisol free. Prior to mercury and thimerisol being added, there were no problems with vaccines. Perhaps you could research some more, and meet him halfway on that one? We are vaxing, but selectively, and she gets each and every shot individually (that's a lot more crying, but a lot less health risk).

As for being vegetarians... I don't mean to be rude, but it's extremely hard to be one properly. And you're demanding that someone who LIKES meat, and who doesn't want to put forth all the effort of properly regulating an extreme diet... to give all that up for... what?

Are you aware of the phyto-estrogens in soy and the problems that will give him as a man? Have you come up with a good alternative source for him? Are you prepared to prepare all of his meals for him while you are also dealing with a new baby, or are you going to expect him to not only give up something he likes and feels is healthier, but to also put forth the effort to have to change his diet completely and prepare unfamiliar foods?

Have you given him some environmental cleaners to use, or just told him to stop using those you don't like?

Did you not know how he was before you got pregnant? if you did, why did you get pregnant with someone you're so unhappy with? If you didn't, then I assume you're not married, and you can simply refuse to sign any papers that give him any rights to her.

But if you think it's a fight now, just wait until you do something like that.

I am also curious as to what YOU are willign to give up. Everything is your way only? In what area do YOU meet him halfway?

I also have done a TON of research, and vegetarianism isn't particularly healthier than eating meat, so long as you get organic meats and not processed/injected meats.

I am NOT jumping on you, or siding with him. I'm askign questions to try to get a clearer picture of what's going on before I can help you.
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#7 of 26 Old 01-12-2007, 11:15 PM
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We are vaxing, but I am ONLY willing to vax the ones that are mercury and thimerisol free. Prior to mercury and thimerisol being added, there were no problems with vaccines.
That's not true.
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#8 of 26 Old 01-12-2007, 11:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2Sweeties1Angel View Post
That's not true.
Oh, so prior to that, 1 in 166 kids were autistic? Please do show me these figures, because I'm sorry, but speaking of untruth, that's definitely not true. Vaccinations have had only a few known adverse reactions prior to thimerisol and mercury being introduced. The epidemic of autism and other adverse reactions started when mercury and thimerisol were introduced. Thimerisol is known to cause autism, and mercury is a known poison.

So do show me some actual scientific statistics on how all these kids ended up with autism prior to the known causes being introduced. I'd really appreciate a valid scientific source with data, not an anecdotal one, please.
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#9 of 26 Old 01-12-2007, 11:43 PM
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Autism isn't the only bad thing that can happen from vaxes. My son died from a reaction to the DTaP vaccine. Autism would have been nice compared to that.

Go visit the vax board. They have a lot of info over there.
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#10 of 26 Old 01-13-2007, 01:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 2Sweeties1Angel View Post
Autism isn't the only bad thing that can happen from vaxes. My son died from a reaction to the DTaP vaccine. Autism would have been nice compared to that.

Go visit the vax board. They have a lot of info over there.
I said selective vaccination. I'm sincerely sorry that your child died.

However, all I have seen on the vaccination area is correlation, not causation on most of the vaccines. In fact, in general, I see them all linked together... "well, the child was vaccinated with all this, and had a reaction to that, therefor all vaccinations are bad." That is hysteria, not science.

I understand that the board in general is against vaxing. However, I think that it would be wise to take things on an individual basis, rather than simply throw everything out because of a few bad bits.
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#11 of 26 Old 01-19-2007, 02:28 AM
 
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My husband told me recently the same thing about vaxes and I told him I would leave him an not think twice of it. I have done two sided research, him none. I am the sole care giver he is the sole money maker, I don't tell him to run the airplane, he can't tell me how to run our child. If you he were to do that not only is he disregarding ds, but my beliefs that tha just pisses me off.

I know you can work through it, with all that being said. There is no more stressful time in anyones life than your first pregnacy. It is hard and nothing tests relationship more that parenting, and that sucks hard. YOU HAVE TO KEEP open lines of communication. Even if you don't agree, hear him out and the calmly rebuttle your points that confict his and don't stray from what his subjects are. I hope that makes sense.

By the way, I know how you feel, my 'crunchiness' bothers Dh to no end. He had no idea that that is what I would become but being a mom changes you!

Best of luck and it will work out!
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#12 of 26 Old 01-21-2007, 11:21 AM
 
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I just want to sympathize with you. It is extremely difficult to not be on the same page with your dp. My dh and I are very similar, have the same ap values and he is a fabulous father. We agreed on delaying vax, but the more I read, the more I realized that I could never vax my kids. He disagreed. He did a lot of reading as well and came to a different conclusion. I was so shocked at my reaction to the man I love, I was ready to leave him. I have never told him that, but he saw something in me, the Mama Bear I guess lol, that he backed off and allowed me to make the decision regarding vax.

I am a big believer in going for counseling, before things get really bad. We take cars for maintenance checkups to prevent breakdowns, so aren't our relationships worth the same consideration?
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#13 of 26 Old 01-22-2007, 02:53 AM
 
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I have a vax injured child.
I also have a science background. I won't be getting anymore for my kids and it is NOT from hysteria.
It was much research ( not just online) and heart and soul searching

its very hard when you do not agree on big issues..perhaps get him to talk to you and explain why it is important to you..
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#14 of 26 Old 01-22-2007, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Amris View Post
Thimerisol is known to cause autism, and mercury is a known poison.
Thimerosal doesn't scare me, but aluminum and formaldehyde do.

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Originally Posted by Amris View Post
So do show me some actual scientific statistics on how all these kids ended up with autism prior to the known causes being introduced. I'd really appreciate a valid scientific source with data, not an anecdotal one, please.
Aluminum has been linked with Asperger's, ADD, ADHD, cancer, etc.

It's all on the vax forum.
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#15 of 26 Old 01-22-2007, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jes_mar_wak_hod View Post
the thing that really pissed me off today was we were talking about vaccines and he made some remark about how he would "just take Story (our daughter) to the doctor and get her shots while i was at work"!!!!! i was and am : ......i usually dont get so mad....but for him to even SAY that! how dare he!?
That is abusive!
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#16 of 26 Old 01-22-2007, 12:16 PM
 
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we have a neurologist who flat out said "I can't say this on record because of my colleagues but it was the vax" and promptly wrote him a medical exemption.
Our ped goes to conferences/does research both here and abroad and the board isn't big enough to hold some of her findings.
If I had paid attention to my gut when my now 20 yr old had a reaction and not been dismissed as 'just a worried new mom" this wouldn't have happened to my now vax injured kidlet.

just my circumstances but it may help her talk to her dp. Maybe not. depends on the level of respect or lack thereof
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#17 of 26 Old 01-22-2007, 12:35 PM
 
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To the OP

I will say that you guys need to have a discussion about these things, openly and honestly... and realize that even if you don't stay together, you still will be co-parents.

What does that mean?? Well, he can still take your daughter out and get her vax'd when you're not around.

Regarding food, a good friend of mine is veggie and her husband is not. They agreed that the children would eat veggie at home... and she could talk to them about why she chose to eat veggie when they were a bit older. However, it was perfectly fine for the husband to feed them meat when they were out... or visiting his parents. The kids still benefits from a 90% veggie diet... and got used to eating and enjoying veggie foods. No idea what they'll chose for their own diet when they're older... but most likely, it will include a lot of veggie options as they truly like the food their Mom cooks for them.

As for vaxing... there's a DVD that a lot of people talk about on the Vaccination forums by Sherri Tenpenney? (? name). It's usually easier for me, at least, to get my husband to watch a DVD than read anything. You could watch it together... and then talk about things. Perhaps you can at least agree on a delayed or selective vax schedule. Maybe he will still want all the vaccinations, but won't mind you splitting up them into 2-3 appointments each time. There are compromises you can make.

If he can love your crunchiness and you can respect his non-crunchiness... then why shouldn't it work?? Just realize that issues are always magnified when kids come up... so you need to find a way to respect each other's views. Whether or not you stay together, you still will always be Story's Mom and Dad.

Mom to DS(8), DS(6), DD(4), and DS(1).  "Kids do as well as they can."

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#18 of 26 Old 01-22-2007, 01:13 PM
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Amris: Yeah what alot of the pp said. You just come off a little strong, not that there is anything wrong with that


jes_mar_wak_hod: Previous posters (pp's) gave you some great ideas. Hopefully some of them will be useful!
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#19 of 26 Old 01-22-2007, 02:48 PM
 
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I really understand your challenge. I was there a couple of years ago with my own dh. I way was more "crunchy" than him prior to getting married. But it wasn't until I knew I was pregnant that I realized just how important some of those issues were to me. And that my dh wasn't really proactively making lifestyle choices in the manner in which I do, he was kind of going along with very commonplace mainstream practices. Please do not beat yourself up over this rift! I think this a common occurence. There are so many people for who parenthood changes nearly every aspect in their lives and find they have problems they didn't know existed. I find it very hard to believe that most couples out there talk about vaccinating their children before marriage or conception. Many people don't talk about whether they'll have children at all!

From my experience I think the hardest thing to work with is not the opinions and views themselves but our unique personalities. My dh is very stubborn and hates to be told anything. I am very well educated and often correct and have the unfortunate tendency to act like a know it all. So at first when these issues would come up he felt like I was being really aggressive, preachy, even condescending. I found with my dh that the best way to approach things was to have a "come to the table" kinds of discussions. We would choose a certain topic and each bring information supporting our view. For most things my husband had to admit that his opinion was really not supportable. And that he didn't care quite as much about it as I do. And when I showed him literature and documentaries etc it wasn't just me telling him what I thought. So my ds is intact, not vaxed, breastfed, cloth diapered...

The animal foods issue is still a bit of a sticking point. I would really like our family to be totally vegan. But for my part, I have to admit that when I married dh I in fact accepted that animal foods and products would be present in our household. So our compromise is that I do not buy, prepare, eat, or offer animal foods to our children. Not ideal, but then what is? But I kind of just quietly plug along and little by little my dh realizes that it wasn't such a big deal after all to not circumsize Liam, or to have compost, or to eat beans and veggies most of the time. After we saw "An Inconvenient Truth" he actually thanked me for all the "crunchy" things I've always done

Anyway, if you think you could demonstrate that you are willing to meet him halfway, at least to have an open discussion about all these issues, than I would try that. I think counseling is not a bad idea at all either - a third party can be really helpful with communication barriers. As far as envisioning yourself with someone who shares these particular ideals, please be careful with that. First of all, you are taking time and energy away from making the relationship you do have work. Secondly, there is no guarantee that someone as crunchy as you will be more compatible. Not to diminish the importance of being environmentally and socially aware/proactive, but there are many other qualities that are important in a partner as well Which I'm sure you know, since you love your dh so much despite his not being just like you.

ps I love your baby's name! Did you get it from Lady in the Water?

treehugger.gif homemaker mama to jumpers.gif and stork-boy.gif due in March

 

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#20 of 26 Old 01-22-2007, 03:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2Sweeties1Angel View Post
Autism isn't the only bad thing that can happen from vaxes. My son died from a reaction to the DTaP vaccine. Autism would have been nice compared to that.

Go visit the vax board. They have a lot of info over there.
Yeah, me too. I'd take autism. It looks better from where I sit.

I also think you can compromise on the veggie thing. It's NOT hard to eat properly with just a little bit of thought. And the soy thing~ eat soy FOOD (tofu, tempeh, miso, etc). Stay away from soy protein isolate. (If you are even concerned, that is)
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#21 of 26 Old 01-22-2007, 03:52 PM
 
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I said selective vaccination. I'm sincerely sorry that your child died.

However, all I have seen on the vaccination area is correlation, not causation on most of the vaccines. In fact, in general, I see them all linked together... "well, the child was vaccinated with all this, and had a reaction to that, therefor all vaccinations are bad." That is hysteria, not science.

I understand that the board in general is against vaxing. However, I think that it would be wise to take things on an individual basis, rather than simply throw everything out because of a few bad bits.
So let's assume you are right, and there are only "a few bad bits" in regards to vaccines. Which, by the way, I do not believe you are. What it sounds like you are saying is that just because some kids die sometimes, it really doesn't matter, because vaccines are *important*. I am seriously offended. You are saying my daughter was an acceptable loss.

If you honestly believe the only problem with vaxes is thimerisol, you owe yourself and your children many more hours of research. Spend some time on the vax board, where people can point you to the CDC's own numbers, which prove exactly what they claim is not so.

Are you purposefully trying to be inflammatory? Your whole post came off that way.
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#22 of 26 Old 01-22-2007, 07:07 PM
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So do show me some actual scientific statistics on how all these kids ended up with autism prior to the known causes being introduced. I'd really appreciate a valid scientific source with data, not an anecdotal one, please.
Here is one showing that measles may have an impact in autism, which is found in the MMR vaccine(which has never contained THimerosal/mercury).
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Daily...aTitersAut.htm
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#23 of 26 Old 01-23-2007, 08:25 AM
 
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I had a whirlwind romance in 2003... married the guy 6 months after we met. He "appeared" to love everything about me, my 5 year old son, and all of the alternative approaches I took to raising my son. Even if he did not agree per se, we agreed to disagree. That all changed the minute he moved into my house 3 weeks before the wedding...

He took over and started to bully and verbally assault me and my son. Told me my friends were crazy, that I was crazy, took my homeopathy references and parenting books and put them under the bed ("I don't want to see these"), kicked my son out of the family bed without transition, and started in on a campaign of punitive and emotionally damaging "discipline." Passive aggressive not speaking to us for days... prisoners in our own home.

I got pregnant 6 weeks into the marriage, and spent 9 months having panic attacks because of the monster I managed to marry. My dd is now 28 months, and we are in the middle of what started out as an amicable divorce. Now he is after my house. It is all a freakin' nightmare!

My message is this: listen to your gut abouth this dp of yours... 6 weeks before the wedding we travelled to see my family for 5 days. The way he treated me and my son while we were there set off HUGE alarms in my head, but I chalked it up to travel and pre-wedding nerves. The night after the wedding I saw more of his moodiness and crazy behavior and my stomach just sank. I just assumed the "nerves" would get better. Then the pregnancy, and 2.5 years of emotional assault.

Not to be a party pooper, but weigh carefully how well you can negotiate with this partner when you disagree on a lot of your core beliefs and values.

By the way, even though the divorce is getting nasty now, I have never been healthier and stronger and willing to fight for the best interest of my children!
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#24 of 26 Old 01-24-2007, 12:51 AM - Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=SageR;7086058

ps I love your baby's name! Did you get it from Lady in the Water?[/QUOTE]

I didn't know that was in there-haven't seen the movie yet. I just love to read and it popped into my head. At first it sounded odd but I promptly feel in love with it. People are so silly tho criticising it. "No one will ever take her seriously with a name like that!" LOL.
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#25 of 26 Old 01-26-2007, 03:13 AM
 
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relationships take work and both parties are always both involved. even if someone feels attacked (with these kinds of issues) they are also reacting with less grace than possible. this is from someone who has reacted all sorts of ways. i've been with my dh for almost 14 years and it has been great, hard, terrible, peaceful, and now amazing. we have really grown together. having a partner can help create balance for some people.

it is common for the mammas to be more concerned about diet, to do baby related research and for the dads to tend towards a doctors opinion.

it is also common for new parents to have disagreements like these. that's why having kids suddenly makes us into adults, LOL.

there is no couple that agrees on all issues and habits. what is more important is working on your communication with each other and keeping trust, faith and respect towards fully ACCEPTING that you are the way you each are. i accept and love you but i disagree even though you think you are right, and i love you for it. willingness to try to understand each other is more important than agreeing. acknowledging each others comfort is important.

there are many levels of communication between people. to start, people tend to be visual, auditory, or physical. i can easily forget something my dh has said to me, and i tend to be more careless with what i say. but if it is written down, i get things more accurately. i need a map, and he needs the directions told to him. so we have had to work on this transfer of understanding.
the more i have learned about myself, the better i have learned to communicate how i feel to others.

the johari window is just an example of how tricky communication can be.
http://www.noogenesis.com/game_theor...ri_window.html

i also highly rec the book: five love languages for mates.

so say concerning the vax issue. you would need to acknowledge his fears and limitations. most people are happy with medicine having a godlike quality in that people would have lesser responsibility. it may make him crazy knowing there is something he can do to protect your dd from harm, because that is most people's perception of vax. it's no fun to live with someone feeling crazy about something they want to control, even if you don't agree. he needs to feel you will totally hear him, that he is safe from you attacking his weaknesses, before you can possibly convince him otherwise. depending on a doctor is a source of comfort at different levels for most people in the current western world. it is a technical weakness, and you are asking him to quit being weak by not vaxing which is very scary for him. talking abt no vax typically sounds negligent in this world, when really it is about making an informed decision.

i find his threat likely to be empty. it is just talk cos he felt threatened and threatened back. if he truly did not trust you, i am sure you would probably not be in this relationship in the first place.

the vegetarianism can possibly make him feel judged, and incapacitated as a daddy. i'm just suggesting possible viewpoints here!!!!!

i also suggest not talking so long term. it is scary to commit to what partner wants for forever, no matter how much you adore them or want to. even if it is the same result by going day by day - talking in long term or absolute can make any of us feel trapped.

i have found that parenting a world i can breathe in.....is where we feel we are doing our best, that this is the best decision we are capable of now (even decisions to do nothing), knowing that we can always adapt or change our outlook later.
you don't have to decide it all now. more better is to be getting along so that if crisis occurs you can figure it out together without getting so upset.

what is harder (from my observation) for some male partners to understand, is how these types of decisions, how to mother, are part of our identity as a person. so when they reject these ideas, we feel they are rejecting us. plus we ladies are all tending towards sensitive and sleep deprived and lacking adult conversation.....so when we say this is how it is going to be, we are using the mamma trump card, and they feel they have no say as daddies, that we are rejecting their opinion, and often they have no idea how much we have invested in the mamma identity, since it is inherently biological.

there are no guarantees with life. it is more about faith and forgiveness in each other regardless. i ain't saying it is easy. but let's say there was a partner that seems to be more in agreement at the beginning. there is no way to know they will have the same lifestyle as you later, and after baby. there is now way to promise how you will feel ten years from now. and after man of us have kids growing up bigger and bigger, we relax a little more about these issues because of the world we live in. even if you were both veg, that does not mean your kid would never want to try meat, and you could go crazy keeping her home when she is 7 just to protect that.

besides, having a partner that just agrees and does everything you want can get dull.

there's my lecture for the day, LOL. (hide) for writing so much.
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#26 of 26 Old 01-27-2007, 01:41 AM
 
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I know how you feel. I am much "crunchier" then my dh. However, the longer we are together, the "crunchier" he gets. Can't say for sure if yours will be the same, but maybe. But I do still make compromises with him. He LOVES beef. It disgusts me. So, sometimes I buy him a steak, and he cooks it, and cleans up when he's done, and its not a problem for me, and he is happy! True, I would prefer to not have the smell drifting through the house, but its better then him feeling like his needs don't matter. He has let me make most of the descisions with the girls because I am the one with them all the time. So that has worked out in my favor, however, we still have to be able to make other descisions together. So bottomline, Its important to be able to talk about things without screaming and/or hurting eachother because realtionships are ALOT of talking and descisons. I think counseling is always a good idea if you can find a good counselor. I know how hard it can be to have such conflicting views, just listen to your intuition, and it should take care of you.
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