Life After Waldorf ~ A Support Group - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 1201 Old 06-02-2007, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
beansavi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Listening to Widespread!
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xaloxe View Post
Ok, I'm LOL right now. DH is really good with writing things and just getting to the point. I could have just written this:
I am so sad that so many of you had such negative experiences with one teaching methodolgy. I want you to know though that through the sharing of your experiences you can help others in getting educated and informed. That through your heartfelt words others can garner information to help them make informed decisions on their own. I am sorry for all that you went through, but I support your desire to heal and learn from your experiences. Through similiar websites we found when looking into WE we received a ton of information that helped us make our own informed and educated decision for our DD as to whether WE was right for her.

Someday I will learn to just get to the point.
Hi Xaloxe. Thanks for your encouragement and sharing your story, too. It sounds like you are a strong, open-minded Mama. Good for you!

Happy weekend,
Bean
beansavi is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#32 of 1201 Old 06-03-2007, 11:48 AM
 
eyeB4U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by boobybunny View Post
How about being close friends with a waldorf teacher.

Before she graduated from the program, she was our "nanny" and she is now married to my oldest and dearest friend. The first year she was teaching at Waldorf, she completely poo pooed ALL of our parenting skills. It was really strange, on the one hand she compliments us all the time on how well behaved and great our children are, and the next she is telling me how rewarding my oldest child's completed homework, or chores with video game time is destructive. She is now pregnant with their first child, and has told her husband that their child will not have the thomas trains stuff... too commercial, how leggos will not be allowed because they are evil plastic, and that they will not vax the kiddo. He is a family med doc, and that last one went over like a lead zeppelin. But also the rest are not sitting well with any of us. Leggos are plastic, but the small motor skills, the imagination used is important, not to mention they are fun! Thomas is fun imaginative play with problem solving. (have you ever tried to make a track?) There are countless other examples, these are just what pops into my mind now.

It is almost like she has been brain washed. Seriously, anything but the waldorf way is bad, modern education, modern technology is evil.

Her husband has been a video game FREAK!!! since the early 80's. I do not think it harmed him... he is a very warm and loving person, with a heck of a brain, and well... he made it through med school. He used VG as brain mushing, turning off stress when he needed too, and as a tool to talk to younger patients. HE HAS NOT PLAYED VGs in a year. Yet, when he is at my home, he seeks our oldest out to WATCH him play on his PSP.

Sorry, I am just venting and purging everything I want to say to her, but am afraid it will end our friendship. She has truly changed since becoming a waldorf teacher.
Hello boobybunny, Thanks for sharing your story on this board. I recognize so0 much in your concerns about your friends behaviour. If you want to give more thoughts about your situation, please do so. It really makes me wonder how many people have the same questions about how it is to be friends and then be afraid of a break-up when you don't share the same Waldorf-ideologies in the same way. Because I broke up with some friends indeed and I sometimes feel miserable and guilty about it. Looking foreward to more messages on this topic, Bye Elisabeth
eyeB4U is offline  
#33 of 1201 Old 06-03-2007, 12:01 PM
 
yaM yaM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Boobybunny, thank you so much for sharing your experience with us. I can so relate to the emotional conflict you express.



Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeB4U View Post
Because I broke up with some friends indeed and I sometimes feel miserable and guilty about it.


I hear you, Elizabeth.

Yk, I used to feel that way too until I inquired within and noticed that it simply was no longer true for me to live a life that is inspired out of guilt & shame.

And I see that it may very well be true for some others - even, perhaps, dear friends - to live that way (I see Waldorf methodology consistenly-yet-covertly encouraging those two elements as effective and appropriate means to achieve a desired result in childrens' behavior).

And I feel ok about the changing context between us, knowing that I'll always love them and that we are both living our truths. I can be honest and live in alignment with my integrity ~ loving and understanding someone who's ways may not be mine while not participating in their actions that are untrue for me. That feels peaceful to me and I am being, therefore, the change I wish to see.
yaM yaM is offline  
#34 of 1201 Old 06-03-2007, 05:39 PM
 
browneyedsol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by May May View Post
And I feel ok about the changing context between us, knowing that I'll always love them and that we are both living our truths. I can be honest and live in alignment with my integrity ~ loving and understanding someone who's ways may not be mine while not participating in their actions that are untrue for me. That feels peaceful to me and I am being, therefore, the change I wish to see.
This is lovely. Thanks May May.

Xaloxe and others--
There is so much to love about WE. Ofcourse we want to give it a chance. It is unfortunate to me that the movement is not willing to flex more. When I was in graduate school, it was important to me that I research holistic education through a more inclusive lens--not simply learn about holistic education exclusively through an anthroposophical institution. It proved incredibly helpful for me to look into all methodologies that claim to be holistic in approach. The dogma of WE and anthroposophy became painfully clear. I also love Reggio Emilia methods (not available where I live, unfortunately). I also love Enki Education (www.enkieducation.org). I happen to think Enki will become the new Waldorf eventually, because I don't see Waldorf making great enough strides to change for the needs of evolving families of our time. It seems to me, through a decade of inquiry, that holistic minded families are seeking holism, inclusion, diversity, peace, and unity...but won't long be patient with the dogmatic aspects of WE.
browneyedsol is offline  
#35 of 1201 Old 06-04-2007, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
beansavi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Listening to Widespread!
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I could not agree with the recent posts more.

I struggle with the lesson that it is up to me to rise above the negative influences that are all around. Going to my local health food store brings up all kinds of flashbacks, anxiety, etc. for me. (Isn't that ironic!)

The Waldorf community had the audacity to publicly state, and claim to know what was in my heart. They told me I was a liar, etc. in reference to my son's molestation and treatment from his teacher. What's more, the school was vain enough and foolish enough to put those statements onto paper, giving me a copy. That's how sure they were they knew my heart. And they were determined to tell me, in writing, what was in my heart.

Counseling has helped me to realize that when I have anxiety driving near the school (down the road from my ancestral home), or run into people in the healthfood store from the school who ignore me, though making eye contact, the negative language in my mind that belittles myself is actually the same language used in the documents given to me from the Waldorf school.

And so, May May's last post speaks to me on a deep level. I continue to choose not to let others' negative behavior silence me or stain the fabric of my daily life.
beansavi is offline  
#36 of 1201 Old 06-04-2007, 01:23 PM
 
browneyedsol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Bensavi, I don't recall reading that part of your story before. How could anyone possibly assert and define what is in anothers heart, especially without asking? With regard to anthroposophy, what about that Parzival questions: "What ails thee? What brings thee joy?" Perhaps those folks need to go back to their foundation studies.

It is hardly an evolved communication style to make an assumption about what is in someone elses heart and prounounce it a fact. Isn't this large in part what is wrong with the way human beings are treating one another and what keeps us from evolving? I think so.

Back to my ultimate mantra ..::Follow Your Bliss::..
browneyedsol is offline  
#37 of 1201 Old 06-04-2007, 01:55 PM
 
Jennifer3141's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Traverse City, MI
Posts: 4,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for the directions, Bean!

Well, we finished out the year at the new Waldorf preschool. I'm about 80% certain that we won't go back in the fall.

Since leaving school I've realized that the kids really, really love their light up shoes. DD loves to run past our mirrors at night. It helps her get to sleep.

DS is having some Sensory Processsing Disorder stuff and possibly autism. I spoke to one of the teachers about it and she explained that is all a "defect in the angel lobe" of DS' brain. My DH is a medical doctor. Exactly how am I supposed to present THAT theory to him?? I've started DS on the path to a diagnosis because we need help as a family. I understand about following Steiner but HELLO!! We've kind of expanded both our scientific knowledge and medical knowledge since WWII.

DD loves starfall.com. I'm also kind of tired of "hiding" her skills at ASL and beginning reading.

I will miss Waldorf because it has been a very safe place for the kids to play. I feel like I can turn my back without fear that some other kid is going to bite or hit without intervention. I have made some friendships but not too close. I probably have more in common with the moms who drifted away over the year.

I LOVE the art projects. My kids are still playing with the wool butterflies they made 3 weeks ago.

I'm guessing that we'll be too busy with therapies for DS and swimming lessons at the local water park to go back in the fall. And that's really ok with me.

secular classical-ish mama to an incredible 5 year old DS and an amazing 6 year old DD.
Jennifer3141 is offline  
#38 of 1201 Old 06-04-2007, 05:38 PM
 
eyeB4U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
And I feel ok about the changing context between us, knowing that I'll always love them and that we are both living our truths. I can be honest and live in alignment with my integrity ~ loving and understanding someone who's ways may not be mine while not participating in their actions that are untrue for me. That feels peaceful to me and I am being, therefore, the change I wish to see.
Dear MaymayThanks and a big hug for your beautifull words.. Someday I also will live and feel that just the way you described...In fact there are good days where I can really can hold on to the sympathy and understanding we once had. And yes maybe one day I will make it up to those who are in my heart. I hope to read more about how to remain friends after Waldorf. Love Elisabeth
eyeB4U is offline  
#39 of 1201 Old 06-04-2007, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
beansavi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Listening to Widespread!
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by browneyedsol View Post

How could anyone possibly assert and define what is in anothers heart without asking? To frame it in anthroposophy, what about that Parzival question..."What ails thee? What brings thee joy?" Perhaps those folks need to go back to biography class...
: That struck me as so funny tonight!

.... Aaaaaaaaah. Those strange old days of Waldorf teacher training...and Parcifal class...and Biography class...

How many times AFTER being kicked out of Waldorf have I compared myself to Parcifal: excluded, wandering in the forrest... but not in the sense that Waldorf is King Arthur's court, merrily camping around Brittany, awaiting Parcival's return... nope.

Waldorf is that weird guy who told Percy not to ask any questions.

That's right. I said it.
beansavi is offline  
#40 of 1201 Old 06-04-2007, 11:23 PM
 
BelovedK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: wandering around.... with an aim.
Posts: 16,765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Beanie, you're killing me :

                                Whatever will be, already is...
 
BelovedK is offline  
#41 of 1201 Old 06-04-2007, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
beansavi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Listening to Widespread!
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by browneyedsol View Post
Bensavi, I don't recall reading that part of your story before. I don't want to stir up cause for you to trudge up anything you'd rather let lie where it is, but I am curious and would like to read a couple of sentences from that letter they sent you (to see just how they peg you in a way that works for them).
I have to admit I got the shakes just thinking about it... but all of the documents, along with my lawyer's, are in the attic tucked away for the day when I bring them out again and go through them with an iron heart.

(What is up with me sounding like some flaky poet tonight?: )

What I can quote from memory went something like this:

We have found your complaints against the Kindergarten teachers to be untrue and unfounded. We are disappointed in the amount of money you have cost the school, causing us to hire a guide from AWSNA to settle this issue. You are on probation as of today and must do the following or your employment will be immediately terminated:

1) Write a letter to Dr. ________ [anthroposophical doctor] apologizing for telling him the reason you brought your son to see him. By telling him the details of what you claim happened to your son [repeated molestation by another student, verbal and emotional abuse by teacher], you put _________'s [teacher] Waldorf career at risk. You must submit your letter to the doctor to us [personnel committee and faculty chair] first, so that we may edit it where necessary.

2) We have found your claims that your son was harmed in any way to be untrue. We have found that your child's experience in this school has been entirely positive.We are disturbed that you would cause so much unfounded trouble in our school. [Several other parents complained their children were molested repeatedly by the same child, yet my son somehow was not and I was lying?]

3) You are hereby required to seek individual counseling for anger management. [I never once yelled, cursed, threatened, behaved beligerently or lied in any way.]

4) You are hereby required to apologize in writing to the Kindergarten teachers for your complaints about your son's treatment. This written apology will be reviewed prior to submittal, with editing and additions as necessary by this committee. [This editing process took SEVEN MONTHS, with my rewriting again and again, down to the smallest of phrases suggested by the faculty chair.]

5) You son will not be allowed in the school for his first grade year, and will only be readmitted to second grade after a review of your case.
This is because you looked in the files of other students. [The first faculty chair ~they switched mid-year~ went in the file cabinet to see if the teachers had reported any incidents in the class like my son's, or if they had even documented my son's molestation. They had not. I was with her, and they changed the details of this event completely.]

6) No more discussion or input will be allowed in reference to this event. Discussing this with anyone will result in immediate termination of employment.



There is more. Just too shaky to go into it now. But it sure does feel good to get it out of my system!

Bean
beansavi is offline  
#42 of 1201 Old 06-05-2007, 01:30 AM
 
browneyedsol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well. Forget about it. I don't want you shaking over there. Obviously you have been over and over it if you remember it that well. I don't want you to have to re-visit it all. I have to wonder, because I am a decluttered haven lover, if you could store that crud somewhere out of your home...or if it is totally over and you want to release it...just get rid of it. I'm personally enjoying the thought of you shredding it away.
browneyedsol is offline  
#43 of 1201 Old 06-05-2007, 01:34 AM
 
browneyedsol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by beansavi View Post

Waldorf is that weird guy who told Percy not to ask any questions.
That's a fresh approach!
browneyedsol is offline  
#44 of 1201 Old 06-05-2007, 02:26 PM
 
eyeB4U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks Beth, for being bold and share everything that happened to you and your son. I read how you describe your visits at the organic foodstore and how you cope with specific "looks" recieved from former "Waldorfians" with much interest. When you recieve dissapproval looks, just grab a cabbage, skeeze it firmly and think to yourself: "this cabbage has more sense then you!".

By the way, it was Percivals mother who teached him not to ask too many questions, so he was obidiant and did what mommy told him to. You just hit the nail: by pretending to read your heart they wanted to tell you just to accept everything that was going on even when things were going wrong. Thanks again for sharing, Bye Elisabeth
eyeB4U is offline  
#45 of 1201 Old 06-05-2007, 03:12 PM
 
Aeress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Neat the Shores of Lake Erie
Posts: 6,397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am glad I stumbled by this thread. I am looking at opening a private school that is influenced by waldorf but when the more I read about anthroposothy, I find more questions than answers.


I haven't had an experience with a waldorf school becuase the closest one is an hour away but in my own research I have found concerns.

Dhjammin.gif, Me knit.gif, DD 10 REPlaySkateboard04HL.gif, DD 7 cat.gif, DD 4 joy.gif

We reading.gif, homeschool.gif, cold.gif, eat.gif, sleepytime.gif not in that order

Aeress is offline  
#46 of 1201 Old 06-05-2007, 03:31 PM
 
Jennifer3141's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Traverse City, MI
Posts: 4,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Karen! It's so good to see you here!

secular classical-ish mama to an incredible 5 year old DS and an amazing 6 year old DD.
Jennifer3141 is offline  
#47 of 1201 Old 06-05-2007, 04:39 PM
 
Aeress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Neat the Shores of Lake Erie
Posts: 6,397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks. Would anyone be interested in sharing their concerns with waldorf?

One of my concerns centers around the idea of reading and not encouraging children who can read at an earlier age, if they are ready. Is this an accurate idea? I had heard this from another mom.

Dhjammin.gif, Me knit.gif, DD 10 REPlaySkateboard04HL.gif, DD 7 cat.gif, DD 4 joy.gif

We reading.gif, homeschool.gif, cold.gif, eat.gif, sleepytime.gif not in that order

Aeress is offline  
#48 of 1201 Old 06-05-2007, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
beansavi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Listening to Widespread!
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by browneyedsol View Post
Well. Forget about it. I don't want you shaking over there. Obviously you have been over and over it if you remember it that well. I don't want you to have to re-visit it all. I have to wonder, because I am a decluttered haven lover, if you could store that crud somewhere out of your home...or if it is totally over and you want to release it...just get rid of it. I'm personally enjoying the thought of you shredding it away.
I have thought of storing it somewhere else, too, and that is a good idea. Having it literally hanging over my head (in the attic) is probably breaking some huge feng shui rule!

And, uh, yeah. It is pretty trippy how that letter is burned into my mind so deeply I can pretty much recite it.
beansavi is offline  
#49 of 1201 Old 06-05-2007, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
beansavi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Listening to Widespread!
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeB4U View Post
Thanks Beth, for being bold and share everything that happened to you and your son. I read how you describe your visits at the organic foodstore and how you cope with specific "looks" recieved from former "Waldorfians" with much interest. When you recieve dissapproval looks, just grab a cabbage, skeeze it firmly and think to yourself: "this cabbage has more sense then you!".

By the way, it was Percivals mother who teached him not to ask too many questions, so he was obidiant and did what mommy told him to. You just hit the nail: by pretending to read your heart they wanted to tell you just to accept everything that was going on even when things were going wrong. Thanks again for sharing, Bye Elisabeth
Thanks so much Elisabeth, you made me giggle with the cabbage thing.

I think Percy's Mom said it first, you are right. But the guy he met and learned to joust from, etc. also reinforced it, didn't he? The whole ethic of "dare not question, just accept everything or you are naughty" idea?

Anyway, yep. I felt like the Waldorfers I knew thought they were reincarnates of the keepers of the Grail (at Munsalvesche Castle-sp?). Steiner said he is the reincarnated Shionatulander... the knight in the story... so I am sure this thought is not far from other Anthros. Not trying to be sarcastic. Just,as usual, trying to make sense of it all.
beansavi is offline  
#50 of 1201 Old 06-05-2007, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
beansavi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Listening to Widespread!
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by brendon View Post
Thanks. Would anyone be interested in sharing their concerns with waldorf?

One of my concerns centers around the idea of reading and not encouraging children who can read at an earlier age, if they are ready. Is this an accurate idea? I had heard this from another mom.
Brendon, I have experience with teaching reading in Waldorf and in public school... after my kids go to bed tonight I will try and chime in on this issue.

Bean
beansavi is offline  
#51 of 1201 Old 06-05-2007, 05:13 PM
 
browneyedsol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
brendon, reading is not encouraged until grade 1 or 2. In grade 1, children first learn to write letters before reading words. The process of teaching writing before reading is wise in my personal opinion. I have noted over the years that some children are definitely interested and ready to learn sooner than age 7. It was easy for me to subscribe to the "all children..." statements when my oldest was young. He wasn't too interested in desk work until he was 7. We were lucky that his teacher was a Waldorf teacher who was pro-reading sooner than is usual in Waldorf, and he was doing great by the middle of second grade. Steiner did suggest that children are not ready to begin with letters until the change of teeth, but he also mentioned that children should not be abberations of thier culture. Considering the times we now live in, I wonder why more emphasis is not put on the latter statement!? My younger son sits for longer periods of time with ease, and is clearly interested and ready to begin learning letters. He's not quite 6 yet. If you are looking at a Waldorf inspired school, I would say keep looking into it. Waldorf inspired schools may prove much more flexible than AWSNA schools. There is a lot of wisdom in Waldorf perspectives on child development.

Good luck!
browneyedsol is offline  
#52 of 1201 Old 06-06-2007, 01:05 AM
 
~Kira~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi Karen -


Keeping in mind that all schools may operate differently, the Waldorf school myself and my sister attended taught that children should not be taught to read until all of their baby teeth had fallen out. I had two classmates who told us they were unable to read, when in fact, they were the only two who had been in Waldorf from the beginning and simply had not been taught to read.

I cannot express how frustrating it was to not be allowed to read, to not have books in school, to try to learn French and German without any texts. I'm very very grateful I only went there for one year, since I had so many tutorials as a result of that year, that I know it could have been much more difficult had I been there any longer.

Because I was a strong reader and began reading at an early age, I didn't need any tutorials for English/Reading/Writing, but I did for Math, Socials, and Science.

I hope that might be of some help!


- Kira
~Kira~ is offline  
#53 of 1201 Old 06-06-2007, 03:55 AM
 
mamaofthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was wondering if I could ask a question...
I have been doing reading on Waldorf for homeschooling, I understand that hsing Waldorf is way different then actually sending your child to a school and teaching at a school (as I can pick and choose what I like pretty much... and I do. LOL Plus I add all sorts of other stuff into the mix) Anywho... my question is this...
Do you all feel that your bad experiences with the schools that you had your children in and or worked in yourself could have also been in another type of school or was the particle experience bad because of the Waldorf infuence (sp sorry) at the school? (Did that make sense??)

Thanks

H

mama to 6 amazing children joy.gif married to my main man for 21 years love.gif and finally home FULL time dishes.gifhang.gifknit.gif

mamaofthree is offline  
#54 of 1201 Old 06-07-2007, 05:29 PM
 
eyeB4U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by beansavi View Post
Anyway, yep. I felt like the Waldorfers I knew thought they were reincarnates of the keepers of the Grail (at Munsalvesche Castle-sp?). Steiner said he is the reincarnated Shionatulander... the knight in the story... so I am sure this thought is not far from other Anthros. Not trying to be sarcastic. Just,as usual, trying to make sense of it all.
Hello Beth,

When you realize that Percival and all the other persons are in fact romantic characters that never existed.....It's no wonder that you get eerie about collegues who consider themselves to be the reincarnation of a never existing person. The legend of Parcival is very dear to me. A story about how people grow up with their dreams and their idols and how they deal with failure and fortune. As a story the Parcival-saga makes perfect sense, it becomes idiotry if people pretend to be the heir of that legend. It would be the same as somebody was claiming to be the reincarnation of the little Mermaid or Rumpelstilskin.:

When I was abandoning anthroposophy, I became awkward about the "reincarnation" idea. Was it really that interesting to think about and did it really matter or bring convenience to any social and humanistic development??? For me the anwer was NO!
Bye and have a nice weekend! Elisabeth
eyeB4U is offline  
#55 of 1201 Old 06-08-2007, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
beansavi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Listening to Widespread!
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaofthree View Post
I was wondering if I could ask a question...
I have been doing reading on Waldorf for homeschooling, I understand that hsing Waldorf is way different then actually sending your child to a school and teaching at a school (as I can pick and choose what I like pretty much... and I do. LOL Plus I add all sorts of other stuff into the mix) Anywho... my question is this...
Do you all feel that your bad experiences with the schools that you had your children in and or worked in yourself could have also been in another type of school or was the particle experience bad because of the Waldorf infuence (sp sorry) at the school? (Did that make sense??)

Thanks

H
My story completely hinges on the fact that the offending school was a Waldorf school. Within Waldorf I found a culture that existed inside our larger society and one that was very secretive and dogmatic. As I have mentioned before, the way I was treated -and let's just stick to the professional part for simplicity in this post- the way I was treated as a faculty member was illegal.


A) It is illegal to have knowledge that a child is molesting other children (far beyond normal "sex play") and refuse to call Social Services. It is the law to call them immediately and all teachers are considered "madated reporters".

B) One cannot make up a rule after something happens and say "You broke the new rule...before we made it! So you are punished!". That's illegal.

C) In our society, you cannot "punish" (the school's word) people for nine months day in and day out, and not allow them to be a part of the faculty meetings. That is called "A hostile work environment".

D) It is illegal to literally slander teachers publicly within the school's and larger community. The Waldorf school sent out a memo to the parents that literally contained lies, one saying I left on my own accord because I wanted to stay home and take care of my children.

In a public school there are laws, values, moral guidelines that protect teachers. Although these same laws apply within all schools, public and private, the dynamic within the Waldorf school I worked for was so dysfunctional and secretive that it was like a sticky, confusing spider's web. There is no "National Teacher's Association" or NEA, etc. for Waldorf Teachers---that is a separate entity looking out for teacher rights like you have in public schools.Waldorf schools use mentors within Waldorf and AWSNA.

To summarize with an example of dysfunctional secrecy, the faculty that fired me voted me out. But before the vote is counted, I am still a part of the faculty, right? Not in Waldorf. The vote to fire me was held in secret, in the 2nd grade classroom (not the faculty meeting room), without my knowledge and without two of the five or so teachers being present.

Um. What? This is illegal and unethical.

It is also just plain cheatin'!

Great question, btw. Thanks for asking it. I think it's an important one here.

Bean
beansavi is offline  
#56 of 1201 Old 06-08-2007, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
beansavi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Listening to Widespread!
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I love the Parcival story, too, Elisabeth. I told someone the other day that I used to identify with the ever-faithful Sigune... but now feel more connected to Cundrie.

Cundrie is (as you know), the wild, hairy woman who demanded Parcival stop wasting his time, acting important and fancy and noble, hanging around the pretty girls in Arthur's Court... he had a job to go finish. He had to finish the job that was not always easy or pretty or noticed publicly...but instead was one of spiritual self discovery...and one in which he truly helped others, rather than just pretending he did.

Ahem. Was that analogy to my feelings about Waldorf a little too obvious?:

Hey Waldorf! I am Cundrie reincarnated. Just kidding!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeB4U View Post
Hello Beth,

When you realize that Percival and all the other persons are in fact romantic characters that never existed.....It's no wonder that you get eerie about collegues who consider themselves to be the reincarnation of a never existing person. The legend of Parcival is very dear to me. A story about how people grow up with their dreams and their idols and how they deal with failure and fortune. As a story the Parcival-saga makes perfect sense, it becomes idiotry if people pretend to be the heir of that legend. It would be the same as somebody was claiming to be the reincarnation of the little Mermaid or Rumpelstilskin.:

When I was abandoning anthroposophy, I became awkward about the "reincarnation" idea. Was it really that interesting to think about and did it really matter or bring convenience to any social and humanistic development??? For me the anwer was NO!
Bye and have a nice weekend! Elisabeth
beansavi is offline  
#57 of 1201 Old 06-08-2007, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
beansavi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Listening to Widespread!
Posts: 4,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by browneyedsol View Post
Bensavi the Feng Shui No-No


You are determined to call me Bensavi, aren't you?
beansavi is offline  
#58 of 1201 Old 06-08-2007, 11:57 AM
 
eyeB4U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by browneyedsol View Post
Well. Forget about it. I don't want you shaking over there. Obviously you have been over and over it if you remember it that well. I don't want you to have to re-visit it all. I have to wonder, because I am a decluttered haven lover, if you could store that crud somewhere out of your home...or if it is totally over and you want to release it...just get rid of it. I'm personally enjoying the thought of you shredding it away.
Hello Brownseyedsol
If the shredding contains legal documents that can proof you're family is treated illegally, I would suggest that you treasure them, because it can help in the future. As for the rest of all anthro-clutter I would do the same thing you say: "down the shredder with it"!!!! In my case I sold my Steiner-books and recycled all my study-material because it was of no use anymore for my further future. I also lost dear friends along the way and I feel very sad about that.

Quote:
I happen to think Enki will become the new Waldorf eventually, because I don't see Waldorf making great enough strides to change for the needs of evolving families of our time. It seems to me, through a decade of inquiry, that holistic minded families are seeking holism, inclusion, diversity, peace, and unity...but won't long be patient with the dogmatic aspects of WE.
I don't understand what you are saying. Enki becomes the new Waldorf?? Can you please explain is Enki in fact a Steiner-bases school?? Bye Elisabeth
eyeB4U is offline  
#59 of 1201 Old 06-08-2007, 12:55 PM
 
eyeB4U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by beansavi View Post
I love the Parcival story, too, Elisabeth. I told someone the other day that I used to identify with the ever-faithful Sigune... but now feel more connected to Cundrie.

Cundrie is (as you know), the wild, hairy woman who demanded Parcival stop wasting his time, acting important and fancy and noble, hanging around the pretty girls in Arthur's Court... he had a job to go finish. He had to finish the job that was not always easy or pretty or noticed publicly...but instead was one of spiritual self discovery...and one in which he truly helped others, rather than just pretending he did.

Ahem. Was that analogy to my feelings about Waldorf a little too obvious?:

Hey Waldorf! I am Cundrie reincarnated. Just kidding!
Hello beth, That is just soooo funny
As in all good tales you can imagine yourself being one of the figures. That happens when a story becomes a beautifull romance like the Parcival-saga; you can imagine how it feels to be one of the characters. The Cundry character is the most flexible and colourfull figure in this romance. Like to see you in the same way, Beth!! Love Elisabeth
eyeB4U is offline  
#60 of 1201 Old 06-08-2007, 02:54 PM
 
Tapioca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi.

Long time lurker, first time poster :

Thanks for being so open about the problems with Waldorf. Like another poster, I have noticed that Waldorf seems to have created far stronger 'anti' feelings than other philosophies and that made me very suspicious. Up until that point I had considered it for my child but not anymore. I have directed friends to this thread over the past 2 years who were considering Waldorf for their children and 2 of them have been turned off completely after reading it. Another loves her local school and doesn't feel that it has the same issues as some of yours, but at least she knows what to be aware of now.

And I find it very disturbing that other parents should be privy to personal financial info and have that kind of power and control over other families. VERY disturbing.
Tapioca is offline  
Reply

User Tag List



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off