Life After Waldorf ~ A Support Group - Page 25 - Mothering Forums

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#721 of 1208 Old 05-30-2008, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, you can just imagine faculty meetings, then!
Oh yeah, baby! Sitting in small wooden kindergarden-sized chairs for three hours waiting for everyone NOT to make any decisions!


Talk about symbolic!


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Cool--an alternative to the virtual "cup of coffee" I feel like I have with all you strong ladies as we converse on this thread. Seriously, summer logistics are crazy, but the thought is fun.


I was always a ball of fun at the study groups bean. At first really trying to connect my spirituality with what I was reading, swallowing the huge leaps in the discussion, nodding thoughtfully. One day it hit me-this is racist and elitist cr*p, and we're all grooving on how psycho-spiritual it is. Time to wake up.
You brought up a great point. Once, an older woman in our group suddenly said, "Hold on. All of Steiner's 'visions' about the nature of man and the way waldorf schools should be run were eventually proven scientifically, right?"

When we told her, "No, EVERYTHING we are doing and studying and teaching is all based on FAITH that Steiner's clairvoyance was real" she looked very stunned... and I woke up in that moment, too.

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So I have a crazy idea for those who are interested. The first ever Life After Waldorf Support Group get together. I would like to keep it as anonymous as possible. So I think we should meet someplace where none of us live. Sometime during the summer and date to be announced. If interested you can PM me and tell me the general region where you live. It should be noted I'm direction senseless so you can make it as simple as I'm from the right side of the US map. I will try to pick a place in the middle of the everyone and if you can give dates when you are free that would be great! Thanks to those who are interested!
I think this is a fantastic idea! We can keep conversing in PM for our safety and the safety of our children. I would love to give each of you a hug one day. If not this summer, the next. Maybe I'll just make a road trippin' hugging tour cross country and what not!
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#722 of 1208 Old 06-02-2008, 06:38 PM
 
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Apparently, my child's teacher sent home a note today (I haven't seen it yet) which says that photography and videotaping will not be allowed at their eighth grade graduation!!!!

Where is the emoticon with steam pouring out of the ears?!

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#723 of 1208 Old 06-02-2008, 08:15 PM
 
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Are you kidding me? That's pretty offensive, esp. for the graduation.

My in-laws videotaped a lot of assemblies, etc. They're pretty tech-savvy and never really agreed with the policy to begin with. Honestly, I would do what you need to do---you've paid for the education, you ought to at least get a picture of your child graduating out of it.
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#724 of 1208 Old 06-02-2008, 09:26 PM
 
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you've paid for the education, you ought to at least get a picture of your child graduating out of it.
Thank you! When we taped their play last month, we got some glares, but also, a dozen people came over and said, "thank god someone's taping this- how do I get a copy?" I think this irritated the teacher.

Personally I always thought it was stupid not to videotape it- maybe they don't want a ton of flashbulbs going off; ok, fine. But designate someone to photograph with no flash, and someone to videotape it, and even- gasp- sell them for a school fundraiser! There isn't a grandparent alive who wouldn't drop ten bucks for a DVD of their precious one's performance or graduation.

To say nothing of the fact that it's their last time together as a class- and they're performing! at least one song and some orchestral stuff!- and not all of them are going on to high school together. Wouldn't it be a nice memento for THE CHILDREN?!?!?!?!

Of course the real concern is that somehow karma will be disrupted by the presence of EMFs - I've heard this "argument" put forth straight-faced-ly - and that it detracts from the children to tape or photograph them. What a load of nonsense.

At least our family- and the other parents I've talked to- plan to photograph and/or tape the proceedings, no matter what anyone says.

I still have steam coming out of my ears, though. : Let us just make it through the next two weeks(knock wood)!!!
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#725 of 1208 Old 06-02-2008, 09:47 PM
 
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LizD glad to hear you are going to capture that memory for you child! I was furious when I read that too! I can understand the photographing with the flashing but no video! The teacher just seems to be trying to grasp at whatever last straw of control she can get a hold of. Maybe something karmic will happen and she won't be able make graduation either! Best luck! It's almost over. You'll be laughing about the whole thing soon!
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#726 of 1208 Old 06-03-2008, 12:07 AM
 
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The teacher just seems to be trying to grasp at whatever last straw of control she can get a hold of.
This is an understatement! We are witnessing snide remarks, outright cruelty, very erratic and unprofessional behavior- even profanity directed at the students! -on the part of the teachers.
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#727 of 1208 Old 06-03-2008, 04:52 PM
 
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Sounds more like a bad movie than a school! Hopefully it will over real quickly! Hang in there!
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#728 of 1208 Old 06-03-2008, 08:42 PM
 
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LizD what's going on there? It sounds like a nightmare for the kids. Is the teacher just completely fried, or is something more malicious going on? To me the whole environment sounds very toxic. I've seen enough of the last weeks of the waldorf 8th graders to know that it can be a really emotionally challenging time, but shouldn't the class teacher be guiding them toward a "good ending" so to speak. The teacher has presumably spent 8 years removing barriers to the kids growth in that funny anthroposophical way that they do it, so what's with the childish behavior?
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#729 of 1208 Old 06-03-2008, 09:23 PM
 
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but shouldn't the class teacher be guiding them toward a "good ending" so to speak.
I seem to recall all my teachers, whether at the so-so public school or at the second-to-none public school (literally, according to US News and World Report), even the mean teachers, finding a balance between maintaining standards and simply enjoying the wild energy of kids with spring fever and ready-for-summer. Most loosened up and tried to have a good time the last weeks of school.

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The teacher has presumably spent 8 years removing barriers to the kids growth in that funny anthroposophical way that they do it, so what's with the childish behavior?
In my experience, sadly, Waldorf does nothing but erect barriers to growth and maturity.
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#730 of 1208 Old 06-04-2008, 11:44 AM
 
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This seems right in line with what I've seen the teachers do for the good of Anthroposophy. At our school they have gone as far as blocking certain parents from attending school related functions. Just because the parents have stood up for their children when certain behaviors in class have gotten out of hand. Sad that they pay lots of money and teachers have to control everything. Even when they are wrong.
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#731 of 1208 Old 06-04-2008, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Apparently, my child's teacher sent home a note today (I haven't seen it yet) which says that photography and videotaping will not be allowed at their eighth grade graduation!!!!

Where is the emoticon with steam pouring out of the ears?!

Well, then I would sarcastically ask them if there will be a teacher creating watercolor portrait renditions of the event for each child.
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#732 of 1208 Old 06-04-2008, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, then I would sarcastically ask them if there will be a teacher creating watercolor portrait renditions of the event for each child.
In all seriousness, waldorfians say that because they believe electronics will ruin the energy/vibe of the event, and that it is important to the spiritual development and incarnation of the child to have direct memories, not ones in which they are actually remembering the video-taped version.

But its freaking GRADUATION! Not like its the Spiral of Light or something!

*rolls eyes*
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#733 of 1208 Old 06-04-2008, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Are you kidding me? That's pretty offensive, esp. for the graduation.

My in-laws videotaped a lot of assemblies, etc. They're pretty tech-savvy and never really agreed with the policy to begin with. Honestly, I would do what you need to do---you've paid for the education, you ought to at least get a picture of your child graduating out of it.
Hell yes. I would roll up in there, sit in the MIDDLE of a row so they can't get to you easily, and after everyone was quiet I would whip out the recorder!

Seriously. This is what I would do.
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#734 of 1208 Old 06-04-2008, 10:22 PM
 
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Hell yes. I would roll up in there, sit in the MIDDLE of a row so they can't get to you easily, and after everyone was quiet I would whip out the recorder!

Seriously. This is what I would do.
I can not believe someone would have the balls to ask you to stop recording after you had started!
Tell me if I have this wrong. If the child doesn't have the consciousness to remember this, wouldn't you want to record it for there memories???? Am I right or what?
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#735 of 1208 Old 06-04-2008, 10:31 PM
 
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Hell yes. I would roll up in there, sit in the MIDDLE of a row so they can't get to you easily, and after everyone was quiet I would whip out the recorder!

Seriously. This is what I would do.


Seriously. This is what they did.



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#736 of 1208 Old 06-04-2008, 10:34 PM
 
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Well, then I would sarcastically ask them if there will be a teacher creating watercolor portrait renditions of the event for each child.



If that option is not available, perhaps a beeswax sculpted model of the special event? Or a finely knitted rendition of your child crossing the stage, stuffed with wool and lavender?

Ladies, I think we may have the beginnings of a small buisness germinating here.
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#737 of 1208 Old 06-06-2008, 02:12 PM
 
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#738 of 1208 Old 06-06-2008, 05:23 PM
 
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I do not see how the local Waldorf school can stay open. They are in such dire financial state that they can't pay their teachers! Yet they are claiming that financially they are doing well in their newsletters. Is this not being deceitful or even illegal to claim one thing and have another thing happen?
It just upsets me that they still aren't taking responsibility for the students actions either. The bullying has escalated to kids plotting against eachother. The talk of killing certain children has been heard too. Yet the teacher's claim that this is just kids being kids. When will the parents wake up?!! I really hope the parents smarten up and take their children out before something terrible happens. :
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#739 of 1208 Old 06-06-2008, 07:07 PM
 
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My experience is that a lot of the ugliness takes place in the grades. Early childhood lulls everyone in, and people assume that the gentleness and beauty extends to the grades when the reality looks a lot more like Lord of the Flies.

I have to laugh again at the know it alls who say that we some how didn't know what we were getting into. Yeah, I guess if someone had said that the education would be substandard, bullying accepted, steiner elitism encouraged, creativity discouraged, little to no critical thinking skills taught, BUT better there than any other scary, threatening form of education because your children will only incarnate properly here, and by the way this is a healing education, healing primarily from the lack of knowledge of the parents--yeah that might have changed my mind.

Sometimes it's hard to spot a cult untl you really experience the craziness, and it's the lucky ones who make it out.
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#740 of 1208 Old 06-06-2008, 07:54 PM
 
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Well, I lived through a eurythmy performance the other night, and didn't howl with laughter until after I was in the car, but I felt like I was in The Emperor's New Clothes the whole time, especially when the teacher had the audacity to say that certain "exercises" will help cure scoliosis . The worst was all the sagely nodding heads every time he said something ridiculous like that.

I was impressed that the kids, despite their giddy age, rose to the occasion and tried their best. (I had seen a high school performance a few months ago that was *so* bad it's a wonder they still require eurythmy. It was embarrassing, and certainly added to my conviction that the high school sucks.)

What I am *really* sick of, however, is parents who credit the class teacher (not even the eurythmy teacher!) with everything the kids do well. I ran into a parent afterwards, and carefully watching my words, said the kids did very well, and that they were a great group. Her response? ["Well, it's really that they have a great class teacher."] :
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#741 of 1208 Old 06-06-2008, 10:39 PM
 
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And equally scary is the class teacher willing to accept the accolades of the parent. Although my child's public school class teacher is someone deserving of lots and lots of praise--the teacher works incredibly hard, never gives up on a child, holds them so dearly, and believes that every child can do more than they think they can. No "problems with incarnating" crap there, thank goodness.
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#742 of 1208 Old 06-06-2008, 10:58 PM
 
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And equally scary is the class teacher willing to accept the accolades of the parent.
Yeah, the teachers at our soon-to-be-former school are all pretty high on themselves. What else is to be expected, when they're indoctrinated into this cult, the whole goal of which is total perfection, they're constantly told how much better they are than everyone else, while never seeing anyone else for honest comparison, and to top it off, consider themselves to be guardians of the children's karma and spiritual path?


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No "problems with incarnating" crap there, thank goodness.
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#743 of 1208 Old 06-06-2008, 11:07 PM
 
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Yeah, the teachers at our soon-to-be-former school are all pretty high on themselves. What else is to be expected, when they're indoctrinated into this cult, the whole goal of which is total perfection, they're constantly told how much better they are than everyone else, while never seeing anyone else for honest comparison, and to top it off, consider themselves to be guardians of the children's karma and spiritual path?



Did you just kind of gag a little bit writing this?
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#744 of 1208 Old 06-06-2008, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Guys!

I have some col-allergy thing goin' on, so I am going to bed and haven't played "ketchup" on this thread yet...

But I wanted to ask if any of you have heard of an author named Eckhart Tolle?

He has a new book called "A New Earth" and he and Oprah did ten discussions/podcasts on each chapter which you can watch on her site.

This guy basically says the things I was (at first) drawn to about waldorf and anthroposophy.... yet he does not label or put people or nations into a hierarchy...

and his main message is that anytime you feel "spiritually superior", you are acting out of your EGO, and not your true self, which is not the ego but is separate from that.

The whole attitude in waldorf, I believe, (after watching a few podcasts online and reading some of his book) is basically ego driven, and this can be stated in a very scientific manner. Waldorf acts out of ego at every turn, labelling children as choleric/sanguine/etc., judging them based on body and head shape, guessing about karma and past lives....

all of these actions are ego based and therefore are not spiritually superior in any way, shape, or form.

Reading his work and watching he and Oprah explain it and discuss it in further detail has done WONDERS for me in my healing journey from waldorf over the last few days.

I think his book says in crystal clarity what the whole problem and facade waldorf really is.

TTYS,
Bean

PS Here's a link:

http://www.oprah.com/obc_classic/web...e_watchnow.jsp
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#745 of 1208 Old 06-07-2008, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, so stuffy head and all... I gotta respond to a couple real quick!

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If that option is not available, perhaps a beeswax sculpted model of the special event? Or a finely knitted rendition of your child crossing the stage, stuffed with wool and lavender?

Ladies, I think we may have the beginnings of a small buisness germinating here.
*spits out herbal tea as she laughs hysterically*
*knit-knit-knit*

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It just upsets me that they still aren't taking responsibility for the students actions either. The bullying has escalated to kids plotting against eachother. The talk of killing certain children has been heard too. Yet the teacher's claim that this is just kids being kids. When will the parents wake up?!! I really hope the parents smarten up and take their children out before something terrible happens. :
Good Lord! That is HORRIBLE and NOT normal.

In a public school, if you say you are plotting to kill someone, you are suspended, reported to central office, and cannot return until you have met-family intow-with the principal. Hello? Anyone in waldorf ever heard of COLUMBINE?

Maybe they SHOULD have one lady knitting and watching TV to keep abreast of events.


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Well, I lived through a eurythmy performance the other night, and didn't howl with laughter until after I was in the car, but I felt like I was in The Emperor's New Clothes the whole time, especially when the teacher had the audacity to say that certain "exercises" will help cure scoliosis . The worst was all the sagely nodding heads every time he said something ridiculous like that.
Oh MAN I so remember those sagely nodding heads.... like they really knew anything, anyway. Just wanted to bve a spiritual big wig in the community.

"The Emporer's New Clothes" is the perfect analogy!

Hey! Somebody make a "nekkid waldorfers" type of bumper sticker, would ya?

Nitey!
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#746 of 1208 Old 06-09-2008, 11:00 PM
 
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I finally got the actual letter.

"The eighth grade and I are actively preparing for the ceremony. To support the sanctity of the ceremony, I ask for two things: 1). That the students be dressed formally and somewhat conservatively, excluding flip flops or sneakers and dresses that are too revealing and 2) That there be no photography or videotaping during the ceremony."

The letter goes on to talk about other business as this last (!) week closes, but nowhere is anything cheery, there is not one exclamation point or happy-sounding thing in the whole letter. Sharp contrast to the notes I get from our mainstream preschool (or even my college professors!). Is the teacher having a nervous breakdown over this change?

And what's with "sanctity?" :
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#747 of 1208 Old 06-10-2008, 11:43 AM
 
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Well LizD I think that she can't reason with why she can't allow those things to be brought. Unless it's taken to a higher religious level. People do really dumb things for religious reasons. She probably thought that was the only way for the parents to listen.
In my mind I see a whole movie crew descending to record the ceremony! I bet that would get her.
On a happier note, my dd's class teacher has been asked to move up with the class. I guess there are so many 4th graders going into 5th grade that they don't have enough teachers.
Even though school doesn't end for another 2 weeks the kids have been having fun. Yesterday they were making board games to play. I hope all of you are staying cool despite the summer heat!
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#748 of 1208 Old 06-10-2008, 12:05 PM
 
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LIZD how about the "sanctity" of your experience as as parent, for crying out loud? It would be great to hear what actual harm might befall everyone if you video your kid? Get over yourselves waldorf!

Ravie my child too has been having so much FUN this week, and her teacher too moves up, which we are happy, happy about because she is AMAZING and COMPETENT! It is so freeing to have come to this point and be satisfied, no, super-satisfied with how the year went.
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#749 of 1208 Old 06-12-2008, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oo Ooooo!

I have had two crossing with waldorf this week.

One was in the waiting room of my doc's office, where that parenting magazine called Wondertime was on the tables. In it they reviewed several styles of pre-schools, including, co-ops, Montessori, Regio Emilia, and waldorf.

At first I was tempted to tear out the article... then I realied just how LITTLE I need to prove myself anymore... so I am just paraphrasing.

The article said that waldorf was a down-to-earth style of pre-school, but that downsides are the religious overtones, overt Christian symbolism, lack of diversity among the population and the homogenous parent groups, even getting as specific as saying one former parent observed that at one meeting every swingle mother had on the same clogs. LOL. Well, I own those Dansko clogs, too, and love em. But the clog symbol is a good one.

The article went on to say through a quote from a former parent that the waldorf stance is (paraphrase) "If you don't like what we do, too bad.We don't have to answer to you.

One the opposite page there is an illustration of a fake cereal box that is called "waldorfios" (or something similar) and its slogan is something like "grind your own grain and fingerknit yourself a bowl of wholesome goodness".



I will try to find a link.

Also, Dr. Drew, of Oprah and rehab center fame had a quote about Scientology that fits our waldorf discussions. Here it is:

"A lot of people in the public eye who behave strangely have mental illness we can learn from, and much of it is based on childhood trauma, without a doubt. Take a guy like Tom Cruise. Why would somebody be drawn into a cultish kind of environment like Scientology? To me, that's a function of a very deep emptiness and suggests serious neglect in childhood - maybe some abuse, but mostly neglect."


Hmmm.... sounds so familiar!

I speak personally, because I came from a negligent childhood and I was drawn to waldorf from that perspective, too, on one level.

I only bring all this up because it helps me feel better. It helps me know the rest of the world sees what we see, they get it, and the minority are the waldorfers, not us.

I also speak personally, because I came from a negligent childhood and I was drawn to waldorf from that perspective, too, on one level.

We are the majority!
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#750 of 1208 Old 06-13-2008, 10:45 PM
 
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Thanks Bean! That really made my day! It makes me feel like they can't take over the world!
Does anyone have a perfect childhood? I have a lot of secrets that came out while I was growing up. So issues here too. People know how to prey on others and they will take advantage as much as they can!
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