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#91 of 107 Old 09-27-2008, 12:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by H & J's Mom View Post
I find this attitude so frustrating. I've tried to educate her but ...

Different choices do not mean uneducated choices.
Yeah, that.

Also, just because you choose to spend time with someone on a subject, that in now way obligates them to do it your way. If you feel like it's a waste of time, stop doing it.
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#92 of 107 Old 09-27-2008, 01:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
This is one of those situations where we stop for a moment from our daily grind, our daily effort to make things better for ourselves, or our partners, or our kids, and we see some other person lying in the sun so to speak and get angry.

This reminds me of when I was planning a 500+ guest list for my wedding, pulling together two huge families, battling full time work, part time work and full time school, and my best friend called me one night around 1AM (as I was hand making favors b/c I was paying for the whole thing alone) to tell me that she moved in with her boyfriend and her parents are paying for the appartment and can I come over for the housewarming party?


It's like you work your little tail off because you are trying to do something good and you see another person waltz through life.

I know, there's no good reason for this to make a person angry. But it makes me angry. Such as the way I spent hours reading and researching, traveling across the state to meet midwives or natural-friendly OBs, settling on a high-responsibility U/C, etc. Then I hear a coworker say something like "My dr. scheduled the c-section on X so it doesn't interfere with our holiday plans. He's the greatest dr. ever! He said 3 weeks early isn't early anymore with the technology we have."


Are there people who can't make certain choices in life? Sure. Lots of people have limited choices. Lots of people experience situations where they have to choose what's in front of them. But what about the ones who don't?


I think personally that this is a dangerous and ultra-judgemental road to go down. I worry for women in general when talk starts about people taking the easy way out of something-I don't know, it just feels unkind and goes down a road I'd rather not see. But, that's me. Parenting a child is a complete package-the feeding, clothing, emotional care, self care for the mom who provides all of this, family support to the new parent(s), care of other children. I would never assume that just because of how someone is feeding their child that they are having a day in the sun. Life is just more complicated than that, and again no one really knows anyone else's life or circumstances. There are plenty of situations in life where one could accuse a parent of taking a day in the sun, but how do you really know? And ultimately what is the goal in even expressing this sentiment? If your own road (just in general, not specifically the pp)was difficult or arduous, so be it. That's your path and you managed it in a way that was authentic to you. But it might not work for someone else.
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#93 of 107 Old 09-27-2008, 01:46 PM
 
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I think personally that this is a dangerous and ultra-judgemental road to go down. I worry for women in general when talk starts about people taking the easy way out of something-I don't know, it just feels unkind and goes down a road I'd rather not see. But, that's me. Parenting a child is a complete package-the feeding, clothing, emotional care, self care for the mom who provides all of this, family support to the new parent(s), care of other children. I would never assume that just because of how someone is feeding their child that they are having a day in the sun. Life is just more complicated than that, and again no one really knows anyone else's life or circumstances. There are plenty of situations in life where one could accuse a parent of taking a day in the sun, but how do you really know? And ultimately what is the goal in even expressing this sentiment? If your own road (just in general, not specifically the pp)was difficult or arduous, so be it. That's your path and you managed it in a way that was authentic to you. But it might not work for someone else.

I don't think the OP's scenario was a quick judgment without knowing the facts, and some of my scenarios were pretty in-depth (for me) as well.

E.g. We've known each other since we were 5.

I still say some people do take an easy way and it can feel bad when you're working your a%% off not to do the easy way. There are easier ways and harder ways. There are better ways and worse ways. Guess what, right and wrong do exist. We can know the answers and learn the answers. Better, good, kind of good and bad are things we as humans are capable of defining. It's not going to tear someone down to look at a choice or action and conclude on it. I can easily feel stressed that my BFF is living in w/ her boyfriend of 6 months and still be her BFF and love her dearly.

Mama to expecting Babe 2
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#94 of 107 Old 09-27-2008, 02:07 PM
 
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Yes, absolute rights and wrongs do exist. Abusing a child is wrong. Not feeding a child is wrong. Then there are issues of what's optimal and not optimal-very different from right and wrong, I believe. Just becaise the path you may have chosen was difficult for you does not mean that someone else who either couldn't and didn't choose the same path should be villified. I just don't think we are all in a position to truly know other people's hearts or circumstances.

It doesn't seem to be a popular position here to look for the good and commonalities that draw us together as mamas, and to go gently with each other on this journey. It makes me sad. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. But, in the end I think compassion and the understanding that we may not know what the fullness of time will bring to the care of the child and the parenting decisions a mama will make, will better serve all of us. I know-run on sentence there. I hope my sentiment is still understood.
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#95 of 107 Old 09-27-2008, 06:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamameg View Post
Also, just because you choose to spend time with someone on a subject, that in now way obligates them to do it your way. If you feel like it's a waste of time, stop doing it.
hmmm I never said I felt it was a waste of time...

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... but NOT medical. Probably for a personal convenience (so what they think because there is nothing more convenient than breastfeeding - ya know... no bottles, no washing, no heating, it's free, etc.), is really sad to go through that after you have done all of that work, is very exhausting BUt again, we have to accept it and keep going, and keep trying... that's what is life is all about
It's natural to get frustrated after all that work... for example: when I approached my best friend about bfing her child, I had a long talk with her and her husband. Including the no-circ argument, she said it was 'prettier' to get it done to her baby. She didn't bfed her child because she was lazy about it and had no patience for it, exactly those were her words. How can't you get frustrated? We know each other since we were in highschool so her reaction didn't surprise me but I DID get frustrated. It's NORMAL to get like that, after all the info I have found about bfind and circ. Like I said, formula is not bad when you know bfing is not an option. But when you have a healthy body that produces plenty of healthy milk for the baby, you stay at home, you don't have any health issues, etc, it's NORMAL to get frustrated, its a natural reaction esp when you care about the person... I then say: OKAY next!

I keep trying and hoping for the next opportunity to motivate other mamas to breastfeed their children, because that's how passionate I am about breastfeeding...

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#96 of 107 Old 09-27-2008, 07:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by karne View Post
I think personally that this is a dangerous and ultra-judgemental road to go down. I worry for women in general when talk starts about people taking the easy way out of something-I don't know, it just feels unkind and goes down a road I'd rather not see. But, that's me. Parenting a child is a complete package-the feeding, clothing, emotional care, self care for the mom who provides all of this, family support to the new parent(s), care of other children. I would never assume that just because of how someone is feeding their child that they are having a day in the sun. Life is just more complicated than that, and again no one really knows anyone else's life or circumstances. There are plenty of situations in life where one could accuse a parent of taking a day in the sun, but how do you really know? And ultimately what is the goal in even expressing this sentiment? If your own road (just in general, not specifically the pp)was difficult or arduous, so be it. That's your path and you managed it in a way that was authentic to you. But it might not work for someone else.
:

FF is not a "day in the sun"....I have twins, people with one baby is like having a "day in the sun" To say that your one child is easy, you have all this free time to do what you want to do, and you definately get more sleep with one child so stop whining about your one when I have TWINS and have it so much harder? See the point? It's hurtful to compare a bfing mother to a ffing mother just like it is hurtful to compare the hard work that one baby takes to the hard work that 2 babies take?

This entire thread is very mean spirited. I can't believe the judgement being thrown around. It doesn't matter why a mother chose to bf or chose to ff. It's everyone's own right and choice and none of your business. I am very PROUD to say that my premature twins were ebf for 4 months, it was not my choice to give it up but my body could not keep with the demand of colicky twins and absolutely no sleep. I guess I am a bad mama b/c my body couldn't handle the stress and my milk dried up, guess I didn't try hard enough My little formula babies are wonderfully bright, healthy and amazing children.

single mommy to identical twin girls (3/06) Non-traditional mama just : through life.
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#97 of 107 Old 09-27-2008, 08:02 PM
 
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Are you serious? "Stole your kids' thunder"? Do that own that day or something???
In defense of what she was saying, I think I'd be a little weirded out if I had a friend who deliberately chose my kids' bdays for her birthing dates. If that same friend had bday parties that trumped on my kids' (taking all my kids' guests) I would feel *very* hurt and betrayed. Not a healthy friendship...

But that doesn't excuse anyone for having hostility at another mother for FFing—nor does it excuse anyone to be smug about a baby getting sick and ending up in a hospital (FF'd, early vaxed, or not).

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This entire thread is very mean spirited. I can't believe the judgement being thrown around.
Oh, I don't know about that. I seems like there are a quite a few of us who are on the same page about not judging other moms who make different choices.

It's actually a very interesting topic. Really, everyone is capable of being judgmental. It reflects more on our own personal issues than it does with the others' choices.

What I really like about this thread is some of the openess that has been going on—especially with those who have this anger and openly admit it. That's not an easy thing to do.

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#98 of 107 Old 09-27-2008, 10:52 PM
 
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In defense of what she was saying, I think I'd be a little weirded out if I had a friend who deliberately chose my kids' bdays for her birthing dates.
But you know, even if you have a scheduled induction or c-section, it's not like you can just pick any day you feel like, for the heck of it. You're considering the due date, your own schedule, your doctor's schedule, the day of the week. There's not usually a wide range of options. And I'd think it was pretty weird if a friend expected me to turn down my first choice of dates for a planned c-section just because HER kid already had that birthday.
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#99 of 107 Old 09-28-2008, 12:09 AM
 
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Oh, I don't know about that. I seems like there are a quite a few of us who are on the same page about not judging other moms who make different choices.
To clarify, I should have said "some" not "all" of the posts are mean spirited. I had my twins screaming in my ear at the time I wrote it, my bad....

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#100 of 107 Old 09-28-2008, 12:47 AM
 
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FF is not a "day in the sun"....I have twins, people with one baby is like having a "day in the sun" To say that your one child is easy, you have all this free time to do what you want to do, and you definately get more sleep with one child so stop whining about your one when I have TWINS and have it so much harder? See the point? It's hurtful to compare a bfing mother to a ffing mother just like it is hurtful to compare the hard work that one baby takes to the hard work that 2 babies take?

This entire thread is very mean spirited. I can't believe the judgement being thrown around. It doesn't matter why a mother chose to bf or chose to ff. It's everyone's own right and choice and none of your business. I am very PROUD to say that my premature twins were ebf for 4 months, it was not my choice to give it up but my body could not keep with the demand of colicky twins and absolutely no sleep. I guess I am a bad mama b/c my body couldn't handle the stress and my milk dried up, guess I didn't try hard enough My little formula babies are wonderfully bright, healthy and amazing children.

The trouble with these judgmental threads is the inconsistency of the people involved in them. It makes it kind of hard to accuse someone of being judgmental, as then that makes the accuser judgmental. Case in point, somehow it's judgmental for me to conclude *something* about a person's actions, but it's not judgmental for another poster to call me judgmental or mean spirited.

It's impossible for any of us to go through life without judging, concluding and deciding on something. That's why no one can respond to my post without in turn contradicting their stance.

The problem is the posters are disagreeing on which issue is at hand here. When I read the original post, I read it as a person frustrated by another person's choices. Others read the original post as some sort of personal judgment or condemnation of the actual person and not the action itself.

I can't really see changing my mind on this issue, as I've lived through the experience and know for myself that I can judge someone's choices and still love that person. Some people can't do that, or don't understand that, but if they really want to live up to their claim of being nonjudgmental, it doesn't have to become an anonymous online fight. I only wanted to bring up a different perspective here, as I have a feeling the OP's post might have been misunderstood.

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#101 of 107 Old 09-28-2008, 10:44 AM
 
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But you know, even if you have a scheduled induction or c-section, it's not like you can just pick any day you feel like, for the heck of it. You're considering the due date, your own schedule, your doctor's schedule, the day of the week. There's not usually a wide range of options. And I'd think it was pretty weird if a friend expected me to turn down my first choice of dates for a planned c-section just because HER kid already had that birthday.
Really? I'm surprised. I know scheduling surgery can be tough, but at the OB's office I went to, they offered a number of dates. They were still around the doctor's schedule, but I could chose a day. Of course, that was for polyp removal (very uncomplicated surgery compared to a C/S), and I have never had a C/S before so I don't know if those work any differently as far as advanced scheduling. Still, it seems like it could vary from office-to-office.

The way I read it, I was under the impression her friend chose the dates deliberately so their kids would have bdays together.

It is an odd coincidence, isn't it? Especially as *both* of their two kids share a birthday. I could see how conflict come come of it (regardless of how it came to happen). I can't blame her for feeling hurt about it.

I think if I had a friend who's kids shared bdays with my mine (and we shared a group of friends), I'd at least see if we could come to some sort of compromise where we could have different dates for holding big parties every year. We could both celebrate our kids' bdays on their days (with a small family celebration), but do the the big parties on different dates—a week or two apart. That way neither of us miss out on guests, and we could also invite each other.

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I only wanted to bring up a different perspective here, as I have a feeling the OP's post might have been misunderstood.
I think the OP was very brave to start the thread. She wanted to explore how not to get so upset about her friend for FFing (even though she had valid reasons for feeling frustrated), and was asking for advice and support. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

What has been hurtful to some is the anti-FFing tone that has come from a couple other posters here. That said, I respect everyone's openness and honesty.

I think if we can openly share our experiences and feelings to discuss why we feel certain things are wrong—versus accusing or name-calling—it makes for a very interesting discussion.

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#102 of 107 Old 09-28-2008, 03:00 PM
 
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I think the OP was very brave to start the thread. She wanted to explore how not to get so upset about her friend for FFing (even though she had valid reasons for feeling frustrated), and was asking for advice and support. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

What has been hurtful to some is the anti-FFing tone that has come from a couple other posters here. That said, I respect everyone's openness and honesty.

I think if we can openly share our experiences and feelings to discuss why we feel certain things are wrong—versus accusing or name-calling—it makes for a very interesting discussion.
ITA.
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#103 of 107 Old 09-28-2008, 05:53 PM
 
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Firstly; :

Like I said. We all agree how wonderful and beneficial breastfeeding is, but let's not get carried away. I'm not a doctor or anything, but I highly doubt that this child's leukemia would have been prevented by breastfeeding.
Sounds like you're not up to date on your breastfeeding research.

Yes, breastfeeding is linked to lower rates of leukemia.

Think about it. You're raising a human infant not on milk that is nutritionally perfect but rather on milk based off of a cow - milk for a baby cow not a human baby that is developing. There are going to be consequences.
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#104 of 107 Old 09-28-2008, 10:56 PM
 
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Are you serious? "Stole your kids' thunder"? Do that own that day or something???
Also on that note, if you don't exactly hang out with her, why would she be familiar with your kids birthdays? Or even if she was, if she's not that close to you that it would motivate her not to? I wouldn't really care if someone I only casually knew had a kids with birthdays on potential due dates that I would decide not to go with those days if they were better for me....
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#105 of 107 Old 09-29-2008, 05:45 AM
 
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But you know, even if you have a scheduled induction or c-section, it's not like you can just pick any day you feel like, for the heck of it.

didn't want to go OT here but yes you can!!! with my first, my OB asked me if I wanted to have my child the day of my bday. We even tried! I was induced the day before my bday but she came the day AFTER my bday. So yes, it's definitely possible

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#106 of 107 Old 09-29-2008, 05:48 AM
 
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Yes, breastfeeding is linked to lower rates of leukemia.

Think about it. You're raising a human infant not on milk that is nutritionally perfect but rather on milk based off of a cow - milk for a baby cow not a human baby that is developing. There are going to be consequences.
WOW!

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#107 of 107 Old 09-29-2008, 07:27 AM
 
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Sounds like you're not up to date on your breastfeeding research.

Yes, breastfeeding is linked to lower rates of leukemia.

Think about it. You're raising a human infant not on milk that is nutritionally perfect but rather on milk based off of a cow - milk for a baby cow not a human baby that is developing. There are going to be consequences.
See, it's this kind of attitude that gets people up in arms in dialogues like this one.
Nobody here is denying that human milk is the best thing for human babies, or that breastfeeding has been shown to reduce the risk of certain diseases. So in your line of thinking, this child got leukemia because it did not receive human milk? Really?

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There are going to be consequences.
This is just not true. Millions of babies all over the world were brought up on formula and are happy healthy adults. NOT that I'm advocating formula feeding. I'm just saying blanket statements like this are not helpful to anyone.

I HAVE thought about it. Please don't use this dismissive tone with me.

I was actually originally implying (if you read my posts) that I thought this line of thinking was just inappropriate in the midst of a family illness involving a child. My point was not the leukemia/breastfeeding link or debating if it was in fact true.

Yes there have been studies showing statistics of breastfed babies having or not having leukemia, but really, are we sure that if someone is genetically pre-disposed to having cancer, that breastfeeding is going to PREVENT that cancer from becoming active?
I'm not convinced.
THAT IS TO SAY, I am NOT stating either theory as a fact, I'm just saying from the research that I have seen, I have not personally come to this conclusion.
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