Support for totally unvaccinated - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 28 Old 01-09-2004, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We have one child that is 9 months old who has never received any vaccinations. We live in a small town in New York, which seems to be the strictest state as far as vaccinations are concerned. I have been told that not vaccinating is grounds for CPS to remove a child. I am scared. I still believe that not vaccinating is the healthiest for my baby's immune system and I don't want to do it just because I am scared. I feel like everyone is watching us and I am even scared to discuss this with people for fear they will call CPS. It's not fair that I have to feel this stress. I feel that it is abuse when a child is circumcised or when they are formula fed. But I don't call CPS on the parents. In fact if I did, I would be laughed at. Circumcision and formula feeding are acceptable in our society. But not vaccinating is looked at with such scorn.

So I would like to hear from others who feel the same way. Meaning, who amongst all the consequences of not vaccinating their children, still decided not to because they strongly felt it was the best option for their children.

Lauren
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#2 of 28 Old 01-09-2004, 08:01 PM
 
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It is unfortunate; but it is best to only discuss this with those you feel will not persecute you. Even 9 years after my decision to not vaccinate; I am cautious of who I talk to. Generally; the other person brings it up first.

For my own peace of mind, I have researched what my rights are with CPS, Sheriff's visit. I should start a new thread on knowing your rights.

Anyhow...

You definitely need to get in contact with other like-minded folks! I have some contact info for ya:



New Yorkers for Vaccination Information and Choice

222 W. 14th Street

New York, NY 10011

(212) 799-6857

nyvic@goodlight.net


http://www.goodlight.net/nyvic
Gary Krasner, Director, Coalition For Informed Choice.
188-34 87th Drive, #4B,
Hollis, NY 11423
Fax / Phone: 718-479-2939
comprehensive counseling and guidance for obtaining the religious waiver, only for NY state.
email: GK-CFIC@JUNO.COM for fees and extensive information.


Long Island Vaccination Information Networking Group (L.I.V.I.N.G.)

Anne Attivissimo. President

P.O. Box 432

Centerport, NY 11721

516-757-2693

LIVING2693@aol.com
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#3 of 28 Old 01-09-2004, 09:54 PM
 
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Check your state law. It seems to me that NY is a state that recognizes personal and religious convictions against vaxing.

Mississippi, Washington DC, and WV are the only states that do not have these exemptions. They only have medical exemptions, and you have to guess in a state where the mindset is so muchin favor of vaxing that no MD will grant a no-vax status to any child.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#4 of 28 Old 01-09-2004, 11:39 PM
 
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New York does have a religious excemption:

Quote:
This section shall not apply to children whose parent, parents, or guardian hold genuine and sincere religious beliefs which are contrary to the practices herein required, and no certificate shall be required as a prerequisite to such children being admitted or received into school or attending school.
Here is the link. My state also has a religious excemption. I figure that the government has no problem lying to me about vaccination safety, so I have no problems fudging a bit about my religious beliefs.

It's hard to go against the grain. If you feel that you will be persecuted don't let it be known that you don't vaccinate. There is no need to make yourself a target for harassment.

Homesteading Mama to homeschoolin' kiddos London (10) ; Alexander (8) :; Holden (5) :; and Sergei born at home 8/18/08
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#5 of 28 Old 01-10-2004, 12:23 AM
 
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Other people posted the links for you, I just wanted to offer you . Do what feels right to you for your family. IMO there are a whole lot worse things you can do to a child than not vax, I would be cautious about who I mentioned it to but if you have a copy of the states exemption form there isn't much anyone can say about you not vaxing.
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#6 of 28 Old 01-10-2004, 02:51 AM
 
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Hi Lauren,

I could have written your post! I feel exactly the same way. I recently moved to NYS and am scared to discuss this topic with others. I have a soon-to-be 5 y/o and a 19 m/o and neither have received vaccines. I'm completely freaked out about what to do about school and I can't sleep.
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#7 of 28 Old 01-10-2004, 02:53 AM
 
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Seems like you've already been given some good info. I just wanted to give you a pat on the back for sticking to what you think is the best for your child, instead of caving under the pressure. I agree with the rest, the less you mention it, the easier it will be for you. And, that doesn't mean that if someone brings up the issue that you have to be forthecoming with the fact that your child isn't vaccinated. Hang in there!
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#8 of 28 Old 01-10-2004, 03:23 AM
 
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these are sort of topical to your post:


http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...ghlight=lawyer

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...ghlight=lawyer



http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...ghlight=lawyer

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#9 of 28 Old 01-12-2004, 01:04 PM
 
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Hi lauren, I have recently gotten a religous exemption for my son, who started scholl this past sept.
The school superintendant was actually very helpful.. although made it clear that she was only a go-between for the schools attorneys and me.

CPS cannot take your child away because you don't vaccinate. At worst they could attempt to charge you with negligence... but you can only be negligent if you fail to do anything about vaccination. By researching and making an informed choice about vaxing, you cannot be charged with negligence.( look into this)

I don't go around screaming that I don't vaccinate, but many people here know of my choice. also my family practitioner is very respectful of my decision, lucky for me..

If you have any questions please feel free to pm me..
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#10 of 28 Old 01-12-2004, 04:42 PM
 
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I can't believe what I am reading here. Those fears and anxieties over ones' own child.! What is happening to our basic freedom or liberties?


I NEVER took my children to the doctor except for the 9 vaxes. (Unfortunately! I should have never taken them at all.) That was in 1970.

Have we passed laws since then that mandate doctors visits?

What if a person does not believe in medical intervention at all?

Something is wrong here.

I don't see that sort of fear in Europeans.

Aren't we the ones living in the land of the FREE?
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#11 of 28 Old 01-12-2004, 04:50 PM
 
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I feel strongly compelled to state this again...

Cover Your Arse!

Find the codes pertaining to immunization in your state. Have documentation of what your rights are. Unfortunately; one visit to the ER could show you just how many have no knowledge of the codes/ law.

Please be forearmed. I have had the experience of being harrassed by "righteous" folks who thought they were doing a good thing. I also worked as a nurse & have heard how non-vaxers are considered.

Others have posted about New York on this board. From those posts , I have learned that they usually ask for proof of your religious beliefs. Here is one church that does specifically state this.

Congregation of Universal Wisdom


Quote:
SACRILEGE

It shall be sacrilege to depart from the precepts of the Congregation by the following:

1. The ingestion of medication or other chemical substances that defy natural law.
2. The injection into the body of medication or other matter of substances that defy natural law.
3. The application of medication, chemicals or other foreign matter or substances unharmonious to the laws of nature.
4. The inhalation of medication, chemicals or other foreign substances in disharmony with the laws of nature.

The "Tuberculin Tests" are a direct violation of our tenets.

1. The Mantoux Test is an intradermal injection of tuberculin and as such violates "b" and "c" above and therefore it is forbidden.
2. Vollmer's Patch Test is the application of foreign matter (tuberculin) and in a way that defies natural law and as such violates "b" and "c" above and therefore it is forbidden.
3. Von Pirquet's Cutireaction is the application of foreign matter (tuberculin) and in a way that defies natural law and as such violates "b" and "c" above and therefore it is forbidden.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cuw/index.html


Also learn what your rights are with CPS or police coming to your door. Here is an excellent document to keep inside the front door. There is no longer a link, so I will post it.

---------------------------
AMENDMENT IV

The right of the people to be secure
in their persons, houses, papers and
effects, against unreasonable searches
and seizures, shall not be violated ,
and no warrants shall issue, but upon
probable cause, supported by oath
or affirmation
, and particularly
describing the place to be searched,
and the persons or things to be seized.


DO NOT LET THEM IN YOUR HOUSE WITHOUT A SEARCH WARRANT!

They will try their best to get you to "waive" your rights.
ESPECIALLY, they will THREATEN you. No, you do
not think that you have anything to hide, but that is NOT THE POINT.

Do not allow them to "rattle" you. Remain polite, but firm.

To every THREAT, calmly reply-

"Gee, I would really like to let you in, but I JUST CAN'T surrender my civil rights"
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#12 of 28 Old 01-12-2004, 06:34 PM
 
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http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/18/25/02.html

Would'nt articles like this one convince the courts that it is wise to question vaccinations?

Would it be prudent to collect books and other information to show that what you do is in the best interest of the child?
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#13 of 28 Old 01-12-2004, 11:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by gilnikche
For my own peace of mind, I have researched what my rights are with CPS, Sheriff's visit. I should start a new thread on knowing your rights.
Carla, please do start that thread. I would love to know how to find out this sort of information about what CPS would consider neglect, abuse, etc. as it pertains to vax. I want to cover my arse and I need to know just how to where these institutions are concerned.

This thread is very timely for me. We just moved to a state that has no philosophical exemption. I feel less "safe" here because of that. The legal consequences of my choice not to vax have been plaguing my mind lately, to the point that I would consider not having another child because I don't know if I want to live with the constant mild fear.

I don't think knowing what the statute says is enough for ER personnel or similar potential antagonists. I believe the statute here in Iowa says every person shall be vaccinated. Where do I go with that? I need to know what CPS considers neglect in this particular situation. How do I find that out?
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#14 of 28 Old 01-12-2004, 11:44 PM
 
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When I posted
Quote:
Find the codes pertaining to immunization in your state. Have documentation of what your rights are.
I should have clarified. By documentation; I meant have an affidavit written up & available.
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#15 of 28 Old 01-13-2004, 01:17 AM
 
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T Nataliekat... Iowa currently has both medical and religious exemptions. There are other Iowa moms that don't vax. Including me.

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#16 of 28 Old 01-13-2004, 05:26 AM
 
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I dont vax at all either.........I usually only say it online and to close close friends and family.

I need to "cover my butt" though better. We dont do well baby checks.....I figure why take him to a germ infested office so he can be weighed and measured? I do that at home. Maybe I better make a stupid appt just to show that we have gone (we went when he was 7 months old......and we were at the ER a few weeks ago when we thought he swallowed a watch battery). Do you think they would count that as seeking medical care? Or is that not enough?

I am not ANTI dr. I think in some cases drs are necessary. If my child's appendix bursted.....I would be grateful to the drs who did surgery to remove it.....but over colds, weighing, etc.........

Desiree

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#17 of 28 Old 01-18-2004, 08:47 PM
 
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From what I've read lately in Vacc. the issue of our times - Peggy O'Mara - the only thing that will stand up in court are these words:

"IT IS MY GOD-GIVEN RIGHT TO REFUSE TO IMMUNIZE MY CHILD"

You would think we live in a "far-right-wing" society!

Where's the FRANKENTEAM?:LOL
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#18 of 28 Old 01-18-2004, 09:11 PM
 
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Ds is 16 months old, un-vaxed, no plans of ever getting any shots for him.

We live in the UK right now, and it has never been an issue. He had to be registered as a private patient with our health clinic because every NHS (National Health Service) registered child HAS TO be vaxed or the clinic pays heavy financial penalties but that was it. I have certainly never been afraid of prosecution or the like.

Now, my question is: At the moment, we are planning to move to the US next year. Is it really that bad over there for un-vaxed children/ conscientious non-vaxing parents? You mamas are scaring me a little.
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#19 of 28 Old 01-18-2004, 09:38 PM
 
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In my circle in Minnesota, it's fine. Our Pediatrcian had us sign a document stating that we do not vax. The laws in my state dictate that either proof of vax or proof of exemption is required for daycare or school. I move in a crunchy natural health group and many do not vax. Some selectively vax, and some fully vax. No one makes a big issue out of it. Most of the parents I know with autistic kids don't vax. They're great allies.

Wife to my wonderful Pablo, mum to Roo 8/10/01, Vin 1/10/07, Bug 6/3/07, Butterbean 12/12/09
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#20 of 28 Old 01-20-2004, 12:38 AM
 
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Hi. I am new to this forum. I read the message from the mom who is scared of CPS. That sounds like me. Only I am worried about everything including my son getting into school, college, being singled out by health officials, etc. I get nervous when anyone (friends and some family included) brings up the subject of immunizations. I feel so strongly about my decision not to vaccinate and luckily have total support from my husband and immediate family, but it doesn't make me worry any less. I have a religious exemption form for my state (MD). It states that "administration of vaccine and other immunizing agents is contrary to my bona fide religious beliefs and practices..." My question is this... What if health or school officials demand to know my exact beliefs and need proof that it is a "bona fide" belief and practice??? I do not attend a church. I worry that this will happen. I live in fear that people will find out. It is amazing to me how our society looks down on people like me and a lot of people would think that it is terrible that I do not vaccinate my child (when in truth it would be SO much easier to give in and vaccinate). I believe in being as natural as possible by breastfeeding, eating healthy, avoiding toxins when possible, etc. I just wish I didn't live in fear because of my decision. However, while I am not the strongest person, when it comes to the health of my child, I will stick up for what I believe in. I would appreciate any advice. Thanks!
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#21 of 28 Old 01-20-2004, 01:12 AM
 
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I stopped vaxing my 8 yr old when she was 12 months and haven't vaxed my 6 yr old at all and I've never worried about it. The schools ask me to fill out an exemption form, but I don't even put the reason any more. It just asks you to check medical, religious or philosophical and I check the latter. I used to write a long detailed explaination just for educational purposes (the education of the person reading the form, that is), but now I don't even bother to do that. I figure if I have the right to an exemption it's none of their business to know why. If we only had a religious exemption here, I would check that box and leave it at that. I guess I am lucky to live in a state where no one seems to care. I did get a questionaire from the state once related to vaccinating your child and I got great pleasure from filling it out (they probably don't get many responses from well-informed non vaxers). I asked a friend of mine who works for CDC (a nonvaxer as well) if she thought they sent it to me knowing I didn't vax and she said definitely.
I've never worried about it and it's terrible to hear how many of you feel you need to worry about it. Are they really so hard core about it in some states? Do they require knowing what religion you are if you claim a religious exemption? Can you just tell them none of your business if they ask?

Land of the free, yeah right. Good luck, all you mamas.

Alison
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#22 of 28 Old 01-20-2004, 11:24 PM
 
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Constitutionally speaking, no one can require you to state your religious affiliation or "prove" that you belong to a specific religion whose tenets oppose vaccinations. IIRC, there have been successful constitutional challenges to religious exemption statutes that allowed for such questioning. The theory is that the law, in effect, affords the exemption to certain religions, but not others, which amounts to discrimination on the basis of religion. Definitely do more research (and I would find links for you if I didn't have a tired 18 m/o), but I believe this is the case.

ETA: The new Texas conscientious exemption that just went into effect in September includes a provision that no health & human services agency (in other words, CPS) can take punitive action against non-vaxing parents based on their choice not to vax. This includes launching an investigation.
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#23 of 28 Old 01-23-2004, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks to all the responses. I have been trying to remain calm and not stress out about this issue. I guess I do need to look more into the legal stuff which I will do soon. I feel like my energy has been taken away and so I need to recharge.

As far as the religious exemption, it won't work for us. My husband is an athiest and will not sign any form stating that he has a "religious" objection to anything. In fact, he refused to sign the religious objection to the heal prick test when we applied for our baby's birth certificate (our baby was born in California). The woman who was going to issue the certificate threatened to not give us one. She had to make a lot of phone calls and then came back and said that by law she had to give us a birth certificate. I don't know if they came looking for us later as we moved out of state shortly after that.

I'm not concerned about school either at this point. I guess it seems too early to worry about that as our baby is only 9 months old.
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#24 of 28 Old 01-23-2004, 11:50 PM
 
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Quote:
As far as the religious exemption, it won't work for us. My husband is an athiest and will not sign any form stating that he has a "religious" objection to anything.
I would think you could sign it and it would work.
Maybe he signs a paper that says, "I defer all vaccination decisions to my wife."
keep that in your file. And then you sign the religous waiver.

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#25 of 28 Old 01-24-2004, 02:47 AM
 
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Lauren,

Did you check out the site I posted? Your husband may not have a problem with it. I have read that it was started by a group of chiropractors to satisfy the requirements for a religious exemption.

Congregation of Universal Wisdom
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#26 of 28 Old 01-24-2004, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes thank you gilnikche, I did see the link and read about the congregation. Any religious objection just won't work for us.

Land of the free.........yeah right.

My husband said that when he goes back to school (in about 4 years), he is going to look into schools in other countries. Hopefully we can find one that fits.

Lauren
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#27 of 28 Old 02-14-2004, 04:33 PM
 
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bumping up
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#28 of 28 Old 02-14-2004, 09:00 PM
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Unfortunately, in Canada, the lovely "Notwithstanding" clause in our constitution actually invalidates all the rights given to us in all the other clauses. It is the same clause that gives Quebec power to force all signs to be french and fine any english ones. (short version of what is happening there)

So when CPS comes nocking at your door here, you pretty much have to let them in, although you can and should make a fuss about it - break out the tape and video recorders... etc etc etc.

That and have the Vaccine issue of Mothering on your coffee table for them to see... Mothering is just mainstream enough that the ones who decided to inspect me almost walked off with it....
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