Powell at the United Nations.. Are you listening? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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anyone listening to the live feed of this?

msnbc, cnn probably have this..
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#2 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 02:13 PM
 
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I am listening.

While he drones on and on and on all I can think is:

"If a little country like Iraq has all of this, what in heavens name do WE have? How about Russia? China? "

What a horrible, scary world we live in. What a terrible environment to bring our children into..................


I'm not swayed, btw. I still maintain that the only way to bring an end to the madness is through peace. We cannot bomb all into submission.


El
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#3 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 02:21 PM
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I just do not think that they could possibly have that much shit in cars roaming about the countryside.
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#4 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 02:54 PM
 
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YEs, I have been watching every minute. I am worried at how detailed it is, including audio tapes, satelite photos and all! This says to me that our gov't is REALLY pushing for war. I am not sure we will wait. I think this speech shows me that my gov't has already decided to go to war. I think it will happen sooner than I had thought. I will be interested in reaction from U.N. countries...
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#5 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 03:10 PM
 
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My DH is watching and says he's pretty convincing! :

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#6 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 03:47 PM
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it could have been fabricated. The evidence, I mean. Just a thought.

This sucks.
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#7 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 04:05 PM
 
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That was my first thought too, mamapie.
The baby's asleep in the sling, so I'm not able to listen or watch, but I'm reading reports about it on the web.
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#8 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 04:14 PM
 
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Spent the morning roving thrift shops on the East Side, in the Grammercy Park area. And each one had a TV on to Powell's statement.

Very detailed, the little bits I heard. A la Adlai pre-missile crisis.

Don't know which is scarier, the information given or the historical parallels.



- Amy
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#9 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I was at work listening through headphones..

either way, is there any doubt US is going to war with or without other countries?

just another here
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#10 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 04:37 PM
 
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I agree with mamapie, not that I'm saying they are fabricated but that they COULD be. Snatches of phone conversations between people who could really be anyone... satellite photos which I am assuming of course we need their expertise to interpret (and which could theoretically be doctored anyways). Informants could be paid, could be actors.

Again I am not saying its the case but it could be, and so how can we not be skeptical ? Is this the "proof" ? I didn't see the whole thing, so please, if I missed something big, let me know.

It is hardly, IMO, "irrefutable and undeniable" evidence that we need to go to war. Not that I support war if the evidence is all true, but this last bit doesn't exactly help the shaky foundation upon which this new war is being built. Ugh.
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#11 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 04:51 PM
 
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Of course it could be fabricated. But I'm not sure if we will ever know for sure. Powell did go a good job of delivering his speech.

What got me was when he was done and CNN started in with reposrts of "increased possiblity of terrorist attacks now" and the "1000 Iraqi's in the US that are supportive of Iraq". It honestly sounded like major scare tactics. Or at easily planted info to make us all afraid and even more willing to anything to get Iraq. That is where they lost me.

What really is the point of telling us all of the "increased risk of terrorism after Powells address" other than to incite paranoia. Of course there could be another terrorist attack. But, without any firm info on when or where there is nothing that we as individuals can do to protect ourselves. So I don't buy these reports at all. They are too unspecific and convieniantly timed.
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#12 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 04:52 PM
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there is so much information being lobbied about that frankly, I believe Bush will get the war whether it is "called for" or not because the head of the nation is just spinning right now.
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#13 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 05:37 PM
 
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I caught snippets but missed most of it. For those who caught it, did he provide evidence of the following:

1) That the US is in imminent danger of being attacked by Iraq
2) That Iraq possesses the capabilites to deliver WMD (if it has them)
3) That Iraq has plans or intention of using WMD (if it has them)

I am very curious to know.

~Deirdre
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#14 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 07:36 PM
 
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But I can understand why his hair has turned completely white now. If I was beating my head against a brick wall on both sides, I think I'd look the same.

I think I'm going to be very sad when he leaves the administration *if* Bush is re-elected for a second term.

There wasn't enough detail there to even convice him, I don't think...and it was pretty obvious. If it weren't for him, the adminstration wouldn't have gone to the UN in the first place.

However, I'm not really sure who to be more annoyed with. Us, or the Iraqi administration saying that they NEVER EVER used chemical weapons against the Kurds. Yeah...RIGHT. We're still playing the game of wanting to put a Snidely Whiplash suit on Saddam, and he acts as if a halo should pop out over his head.

*sigh*

Does anyone really think that this made a difference? Was anyone, pro-forced disarming or against, really expecting it to?

I think this 'war' is completely inane. However I really wonder if it's going to be all that much better for the Iraqi people to live under severe sanctions for ANOTHER decade or two while Iraq, the US, and the UN all play footsie with one another. :P
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#15 of 28 Old 02-05-2003, 08:09 PM
 
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Remember, our governement helped "engineer" the story of the Iraqi soldiers thowing the kuwaiti babies out the incubators on to the floor. Which was a total fabrication. Now we are supposed to believe it will be in everyone's best interest to go to war with Iraq?
(My name is Deirdre too, Deirdre)
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#16 of 28 Old 02-06-2003, 11:53 AM
 
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Hi Deirdre aka Carmen Veranda! It is nice to meet other Deirdre's...not too many of us around


Tigerchild~ I do kind of feel sorry for Colin Powell. He is one elephant I kind of like. He is so pro-diplomacy and is really intent on rebuilding the State Dept. which had seriously cut it's diplomatic staff since the 80's. Is he going to leave if Bush gets re-elected? I didn't know that.

I caught a snippet in this morning's paper about the "show" by Powell really being more for the public than the UN. They really want to sway public opinion towards this war. A poll in NJ (where I live) says that only 50% or less approve of military action.

The reason I asked about whether there is evidence of intent and delivery vehicles is because, well, every WMD we have accused SH of having we have 100 times over. So the only difference I can see of whether it is us or them who deserves to be disarmed is the "evidence of intent" with what we are going to do with these weapons.

I do shudder to think about the Iraqis suffering under 10 more years of sanctions. I also shudder to think of the destruction and death a war will bring them. Especially when one recognizes that this was a country with an excellent healthcare system, high literacy rates, and a thriving population prior to Gulf War I. There are no easy answers. In hindsight I think we should never have imposed sanctions and instead helped to rebuild after the war and fostered an opposition movement. I disagree with those who say this couldn;t have been done. There was a huge opposition movement built up right under Milosevic which was partially financed by the US.
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#17 of 28 Old 02-06-2003, 12:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tigerchild
Does anyone really think that this made a difference? Was anyone, pro-forced disarming or against, really expecting it to?
I knew it was just a show to get US support. I've known for a long time that whether we want it or not, we are going to war. I've always thought Bush made his mind up a long time ago, and that he's just waiting it out so that he can try to get more allied support. I'm starting to think that he will go on even without that support and I never thought a US pres would do that.
The fact that he is most likely going to ignore the wishes of the UN really scares me, because if we get into a conflict, I really believe that we will need their help.

All I can do is try to pray for him, pray that he has peace in his life.
Pray that he has abundant happiness and joy in his life.

That's probably the most powerful way I can protest what's going on.

Marcy
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#18 of 28 Old 02-07-2003, 01:00 AM
 
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Quote by Marcy 74

All I can do is try to pray for him, pray that he has peace in his life.
Pray that he has abundant happiness and joy in his life.

That's beautiful! I think if we hate anyone or anything it just feeds the negative energy even more. Like they say, love conquers all. (if enough people participate)

Just want to mention that the former CIA Iraq analyst wasn't convinced with Powell's findings:

How convinced were you today by what Colin Powell had to say in the Security Council?

DR STEPHEN PELLETIERE, FORMER CIA IRAQ ANALYST (HARRISBURG, PENNSYLVANIA): I wasn't very convinced at all...

KERRY O'BRIEN: What about the links between Iraq and Al Qaeda that Colin Powell drew today?

DR STEPHEN PELLETIERE: There are problems with that because he's claiming that that group is lodged on the border of Iran.

If it's lodged on the border of Iran, then it's hard to believe that that's an Al Qaeda group, because Iran and Al Qaeda are enemies.

If it's a group that's linked to Saddam Hussein, it's hard to see how they're surviving up there because they're surrounded by enemies.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2003/s778700.htm
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#19 of 28 Old 02-07-2003, 10:35 AM
 
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Dear Nursing Mother:

I just wanted to ask you a couple of questions.

How do you see that going to war will help our children live in a terror-free world?
We have WMD. Why do we have them, if we don't plan on using them? And we have used them on millions of innocent people. Why are our WMD less evil than SH's? Isreal has WMD. India, Pakistan, China... North Korea. Way go to war with one country over this issue when we all are in the catagory?

I hope I am not putting you on the spot. That is not really my intention. I am truely open to trying to understand the someone's reasoning on this issue. Truthfully, I can't talk to many people about this because the work place is not really the place or time for a polical discussion, and my friends are all pretty much in agreement with me. My brother is 100% behind the war, but I find we seem to get too emotional about it and end up just being mad.

So tia, if you want to. with respect...
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#20 of 28 Old 02-07-2003, 03:55 PM
 
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I wholeheartedly agree with everything Nursing Mother said.

It's a very, very scary time we live it. But it's only going to get more dangerous if we don't do anything and just sit on our hands. It may get scarier before it gets better.

Some people say that a war with Iraq is going to lead to more terrorism by Islamic extremists in our country and around the world. Perhaps, but the truth is, this terrrorism is going to happen even if we DON'T take action!

We have to get WMD out of the hands of those who can't be trusted to withhold them from terrorists. We have to do something to overturn the governments in the Arab world that oppress their people to the point that they resort to terrorism against us. It starts with Iraq, and hopefully Iran will follow with a revolt from within, even Saudia Arabia has got to reform.

It's not pretty, it's awful. But it really is the only way to make the world safer for our children and grandchildren.
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#21 of 28 Old 06-04-2003, 11:11 PM
 
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Bump...

Quote:
Mamapie said~it could have been fabricated. The evidence, I mean. Just a thought.
Well Mamapie, it appears you may have been correct ?!
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#22 of 28 Old 06-05-2003, 09:39 AM
 
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Yep, it appears we have been sold a bill of goods. And we fell for it, hook line and sinker. The leaders of this country took us to WAR for fabricated evidence. What evil. The horrors of war to spare us all the weapons of mass distruction and THEY AREN"T THERE. And, now, we hear, "Oh, no, it was never about WMD? WTF? I have mommy can't remember anything mushbrain, but holy moly it was only a few months ago, and I clearly remember Powell's pathetic presentation at the UN. I have quotes for the president. First saying one thing, (this is about WMD) and months later saying it is about getting Saddam, and months later saying it was never sbout either. Liars.
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#23 of 28 Old 06-05-2003, 09:49 AM
 
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I saw this up again and wondered, "What? Is he speaking to the UN again? Did I miss something?" But, it's just Devi on her roving investigative reporter mode!! GO GIRL!!
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#24 of 28 Old 06-05-2003, 09:50 AM
 
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It threw me for a loop for a minute too!!
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#25 of 28 Old 06-05-2003, 02:35 PM
 
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This threw me for a loop too, especially because I got an email from Truthout yesterday with a story about how Powell was given a speech to read (prepared by Dick Cheney) and he threw the pages into the air and said "This is bullshit. I'm not reading this." I'd share the link, but I already deleted it. I know some other people here are on Truthout's mailing list, so maybe someone else will share the story.
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#26 of 28 Old 06-05-2003, 02:36 PM
 
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Sorry guys, I was perusing the threads for 'dish' on the Shrub admin. Found this and thought, hmmmmmmmmm.??

Quote:
We have to get WMD out of the hands of those who can't be trusted to withhold them from terrorists.
But....what if there weren't any? What if it was all a big lie? Is this war still OK? Just curious honestly...


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#27 of 28 Old 06-06-2003, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nursing Mother
I'll let the powers that be get outta the snag scenario of the WMD question?
If this is a question to yourself, NM, then I hope you do not 'let the powers that be' rule your rationality. Blind faith in these 'powers' will put you in a very vulnerable spot.

It's a good start in asking these sorts of questions, for sure.
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#28 of 28 Old 06-06-2003, 02:59 AM
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Hey, but we have a fiscally-ignorant, shoot from the hip cowboy leader who likens people to cows he can herd and counts one of his gifts as the ability to make people relax.

That plus nuclear powers only matched by cultural arrogance makes for a mighty nation over God, eh?

Hilary, that sig makes me crack up everytime! I love it. No one could make this stuff up, it's too rich.
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