Respect for the Presidency - Mothering Forums
View Poll Results: How important is it to repect the Office of the President of the USA?
VERY!! 15 18.52%
NOT AT ALL!! 45 55.56%
SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN - please explain 21 25.93%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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#1 of 32 Old 04-30-2003, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Recently I had an exchange with someone, which got me to thinking . . .

She said, basically, that in her area there was a great variety of opinions on the war, but it all came down to having enough respect for the Presidency. So - here are some of my ramblings - isn't America founded by a bunch of rebels? Why is it the rebellious South tends to show so much "respect" for the Presidency? GWBush wasn't voted into office by a majority of the votes - why are these people now showing so much respect for this office when he shouldn't really be there? How important IS it to respect the Presidency???? What does that entail? WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS?:
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#2 of 32 Old 04-30-2003, 02:43 PM
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The President doesn't get any default respect from me just because he somehow arrived at the People's House. He gets to earn my respect just like everyone else. Stupid is as stupid does, if you will.

It's so old school to advocate respect based on title. Respect your parents because they're your parents. One should respect all police officers. One should respect the local priest because he has the title, Father, etc.

Disrespect isn't automatic for me based on title or lack thereof. Neither is respect.

Of course, I have the joy of hearing this garbage from my own DH who advoates default respect for Shrub. 'At some point, you have to respect him and support him because he is the one in office.'

Pass the digitalis, please.
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#3 of 32 Old 04-30-2003, 02:56 PM
 
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Title is just a word designation for a position that is often inherited and given without any qualification more than popularity.

Mere biology does not a "parent" make either...Joyce in the mts.

CD Labor/Postpartum (MSTM), Doula trainer (BAI), Midwifery Student/Apprentice, CPS Tech
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#4 of 32 Old 04-30-2003, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I guess I got too rambling with my questions - I really do, sincerely wonder if the USA really needs to have this "respect for the heirarchy" - if there is so little uniting these masses of long term resident aliens that they really need the LAW to keep them from chaos. That the fear of chaos is what is keeping the masses supporting this pResident?
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#5 of 32 Old 04-30-2003, 04:56 PM
 
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I want to respect all people, if they deserve it. So far, shrub hasn't given me any reason to respect him. I did right after 9/11, because I got caught up in the emotion, just like he wanted me to. This makes me respect him even less because he played on my emotions in order to get me to tow the line.
I agree that he wasn't truly elected and I pray we can get him and his cronies (and that's really the heart of the matter IMO) out too!
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#6 of 32 Old 04-30-2003, 06:03 PM
 
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Uh............. NO!
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#7 of 32 Old 04-30-2003, 07:41 PM
 
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I voted "Very", but before you flame me, let me explain. I think it's very important that we have a leader that we respect. It saddens me that at this time, we have a president who is contemptible. The question doesn't ask "Do you respect our current president?"

What kind of future does this country have if the last election set a precedent and leaders will be appointed rather than elected? If the majority of Americans feel that someone they don't respect is leading our country?

I fervently hope that the next presidential election is carried out fairly, and that everyone who has the right to vote does so, and that everyone who has the right to vote has the opportunity to do so. Maybe then we'll be led by a person who deserves respect.

I don't feel that a person who manages to arrive in the White House is somehow superior to the rest of us. However, every country needs a leader. There are many people I respect, I wish our president were one of them.
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#8 of 32 Old 04-30-2003, 07:41 PM
 
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SCA Bush doesn't have any respect for the Presidency, so why should we??? How else can you explain his behavior?
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#9 of 32 Old 04-30-2003, 09:54 PM
 
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I voted somewhere in between because I think respect for the president is somewhat important. My morale is down because I do NOT have ANY respect for President Bush. I think it would be wonderful if the majority of the American ppl were happy with and respectful of their president. This is just not the case right now. Hell, the majority of the American ppl didn't even vote for the president we have now.

On the same note, it will be impossible for us ever to a have president that EVERY American respected but I think a general happiness with the president is good for the country.

I do not think respect is a given and granted automatically. I do think it is something that is earned. Bush has not done that for me and that is why I do not respect him. As much as I think that respect for our president would be good for our country, I refuse to give credit where credit is not due.

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#10 of 32 Old 04-30-2003, 10:01 PM
 
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when the President shows respect for me- as a woman, a mother, not a member of the richest 1 percent of the country or a board member of any Fortune 500 company, as someone concerned about peace and social justice and clean air and clean water and wilderness, THEN I will have respect for him.
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#11 of 32 Old 04-30-2003, 10:13 PM
 
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Daylily,
You're absolutely right! I read the title of the thread and I guess, I overlooked the actual question. It IS very important to have respect for the Office of the President. I was stating that I don't respect our current president.
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#12 of 32 Old 04-30-2003, 10:39 PM
 
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Politics in the south in a funny thing.

Bush was born in MA, but because he was governor of TX, his father is a "resident" of TX for tax purposes, and his little brother is governor of FL, then he is a "good old boy?".

His mother comes from an aristocratic New England family. Her distant cousin was President Pierce, her maiden name, and was a strong supportor of slavery, although he retired to Vermont. During his administration (1852-56), he did little to avert the tensions that precipitated the Civil War (1860-65).

Southern politics is not well understood by most of the United States and the rest of the world. This is a problem that was present from before the United States was formed, and is the cause of the Civil War, and continues to be a problem today.

My sister did her specialty training in Augusta, GA and lived in Columbia, SC, for three years. The Confederate flag still waves there over (or near) the State House. The ruling classes in SC are very proud of the fact that SC was the first colony to declare war against King George III in 1773 and again the first state to secede from the Union in 1860. My sister told me it was an eye-opener, because history as taught in regular school does not cover the Southern perspective. Her husband was born in Shreveport, Louisiana, so she was accepted as part of the community during her stay there. He was a "southern boy, one of our own".

So, let it be said that there are two distinct cultures in the United States: Northern and Southern.

There is even a cultural difference between the border states as Delaware, Maryland, Tennessee, Kentucky and Missouri which were neutral during the Civil War and the Deep Southern States which had large plantations. There are no large cotton fields in the border states to pick here, so there were few slaves held here. The State of Virginia seceded from the Union, but the poorer Western region of the state "seceded from the Secession" and rejoined the Union as a separate state because the region was different in culture and economics from the rest of the State of Virginia which held large cotton plantations.


As far as respecting the President is concern: like it or not, he does represent my country. I did not vote for him, nor do I like the circumstances under which he was "(s)elected" but his office represents the country I call "home". Conversely, during the Monica Lewinsky scandal during the Clinton administration, I felt that I could not even discuss the presidency or current events with my third/fourth/fifth grade students, so I suspended that part of my curriculum until it blew over. But if Bill Clinton had graced my class with his presence, we would have shown the President the respect for his Office that he deserved. Furthermore, I am old enough to remember the 1960 election which elected JFK from the late Chicago returns which were suspected to be from registered voters posthumously. My parents did not vote for him either.

The U.S. is full of suspicious elections, free as they are supposed to be.
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#13 of 32 Old 05-01-2003, 02:12 AM
 
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NOT AT ALL!

It is a free country ( ummm, sort of........like, well, errrr, you'll be OK if you don't publicize that Bush makes you :Puke )



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#14 of 32 Old 05-01-2003, 06:04 AM
 
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Absolutely.

The "earning" comes when they are elected (or appointed, as the case may be : ) to the office. Even assuming arguendo that the current occupant was not actually elected, he still managed to become the nominee of the party of Lincoln (I hate when Republicans say that, makes me nuts, but it just fits the point of the post). He was able to "earn" that. As all who are eventually elected (or appointed : ) do ...

I have absolute respect for the office.
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#15 of 32 Old 05-01-2003, 06:27 AM
 
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In short, I suspect that I have respect for the office of the Presidency, but the person is another whole thing. They are only human.

There are even suspicions about LIncoln as president. Supposedly he is th only plresident to order the massacre of Indians in Michigan. They are all flawed human beings.

But the office deserves respect. The person needs to earn my respect. NOne have yet.
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#16 of 32 Old 05-01-2003, 02:08 PM
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I have so little respect for Bush that it's hard to answer this question in context. But I realize that the answer is, really, somewhere in between, because I remember being sickened by how little respect Clinton's enemies showed for him; and I remember thinking, I don't care if they don't like him, don't care if they don't respect him, but they need to respect that he is the president of the United States. But it was also easier to think that because I did respect him so very much.

Bush is one of the most detestable people in the universe currently living. And yes, I guess I do have respect for the office itself, because it's one reason I hate him so much--he's so unworthy of the office, which is such a powerful one, with so much influence over this country for good or ill. It's a respectable office, inhabited by a man who deserves no respect.
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#17 of 32 Old 05-01-2003, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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oops!
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#18 of 32 Old 05-01-2003, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serena
And yes, I guess I do have respect for the office itself, because it's one reason I hate him so much--he's so unworthy of the office, which is such a powerful one, with so much influence over this country for good or ill. It's a respectable office, inhabited by a man who deserves no respect.
I want to thank you for your enlightenment- you have opened my eyes to one reason why I am so upset by this whole thing - and that IS because I respect the office so much and feel an unworthy person is in there. It's the whole Peter's Principle all over again . . . I don't recall ever thinking anyone owed Clinton respect for his office - I thought he deserved respect for the job he did running the country - he did a good job, regardless of the Monica thing - I am not here on this earth to judge morality - but it is my responsibility to judge on the job someone I'm voting on is doing, and this guy is not worthy of this job.
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#19 of 32 Old 05-01-2003, 04:53 PM
 
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I voted very. I think we should absolutely respect the Presidency.

And I think that a lot of times the disrespect for the office begins inside it.

That said, I cannot think of anything for which I might respect the current president. Not one thing.

The office? That's like respecting the idea of the president. Yeah, I can do that...and perhaps if we ALL would--most specifically those vying for the position--perhaps then things might be different.
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#20 of 32 Old 05-01-2003, 05:30 PM
 
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I voted the third choice because I agree with those of you who say you respect the office itself, but not necessarily the person in it.

I do respect the office itself, and I think that in the governmental system we live in, it is important to do so.

I don't believe, however, that a country with a president or even a leader is the only kind of country that will work or even the best way, but that is how this country is set up and I think in most situations it works reasonably well. That's why I have respect for the office.

The person occupying that office right now though? :Thumbs down

Aren't we supposed to be able to question those in government? Or are we just supposed to keep our mouths shut and voice our opinions in the voting booths, which don't help much anyway?

T El Casey S, I love your quote.
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#21 of 32 Old 05-02-2003, 12:02 AM
 
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I agree with those that said respect the office but not necessarily the person.

Not all those who wander are lost 
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#22 of 32 Old 05-02-2003, 10:27 AM
 
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Well, I voted "somewhere in between".
On a spiritual level, I believe that the only way you can change a person - or the world - is to change yourself first. (Alright, easier said than done, as I have done my fair share of Shrub flaming). So by feeding these people the energy of disrespect, anger, hatred, whatever, you are, in effect, making them even more powerful. So I am trying to respect them as sentient human beings... trying to tell myself that no matter how many people they massacre in the name of domination - er, I mean, freedom - and despite the "bad" or wrong choices, that deep down, all people are good. They just don't always choose the highest choices sometimes (or, in this case, the majority of the time: ).
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#23 of 32 Old 05-02-2003, 04:42 PM
 
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I do respect the office of the PResidency. Maybe because of being amilitary brat, I was brought up to respect rank. I did not ever respect Clinton as a person or as my president, but I did respect the fact that he help the highest office in the land. I respect Bush the president and Bush the man, but as an American I believe it is ok to disagree with the President and not respect his actions or choices, but the office he holds and represents should be respected.

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Before you were conceived, I wanted you. Before you were born I loved you. Before you were a minute old, I would have died for you. That is the miracle of life. ~Maureen Hawkins~
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#24 of 32 Old 05-03-2003, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've always been a bit allergic to the "Respect" order - it always seemed to be used to oppress me and to make less or look over the mistakes of those I was to respect. Which AP parent would say, "Because I said so!" as a response to a "why?" question from our child? So why SHOULD we absolutely respect any office? It seems too much like giving a blank check . . . like saying, "I vas only folloving oerters!"

I am totally opposed at any time to respecting someone only for the title. We should respect all humans the same - and as for those for whom we carry responsibility (like voting, etc.) we need to be able to be free to follow our inner voice/spirit and not feel forced to follow some external command. Should the world be a miltary base? Is the military way the right way?
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#25 of 32 Old 05-03-2003, 04:27 PM
 
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I don't simply respect titles or offices. What is a title without a person wearing it? How do you respect the office and not respect the person in it? What is an office without the person?

I don't think that simply because this is the way the country is right now is reason enough to accept it. I believe strongly in questioning and challenging positions of power especially when they prove to be historically shady.

This is slightly off topic, but there is soooo much praise for Abraham Lincoln it makes me sad. Slavery was not ended because his presidency felt a moral obligation to end it, but rather because the cotton gin was introduced and slavery was no longer economically feasible.

An excellent historical reference is A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn.

Peace,
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#26 of 32 Old 05-04-2003, 03:04 AM
 
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It really does not matter if GWB or Al Gore got the most votes.

America is a representative democracy or republic; the president is elected by the electoral college and once each state has made up it mind which candidate it supports, all of the electoral votes goes for that candidate.

That explains why Clinton and Gore spent lots of time in California (55 electoral votes). I remember Nixon, Reagan, Carter, Kennedy, Dukakis and Bush did the same thing. California is the gold mine of votes.

Candidates hardly ever go to Nebraska (5 electoral votes) and basically ignored Utah and Alaska (3 electoral votes each).

Alaska may not have alot of electoral votes, but it does have losts of oil. People who live there do get a rebate from the oil profits that the state benefits from. So the state is rich in oil, but not votes, but who cares about it?

Anyway, I am just trying to explain to you why it is possible to lose an election despite receiving more of the popular vote. It is the electoral vote that counts. That is why everyone was waiting for Florida's returns to be resolved.

BTW, Gore did not even carry his own home state of Tennessee.
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#27 of 32 Old 05-04-2003, 03:18 AM
 
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T

Nappyhair:

Lincoln also did not free the slaves with the Emanicipation Proclamation. It was the 13th amendment that freed the slaves after his assassination.

U S Grant owned slaves; he owned slaves while he served as General for the Northern forces. He did not free them until the 13th amendment passed, that is, until he HAD to! He then went on to become president.

BTW, Robert E. Lee DID not own slaves. He was married to George Washington's granddaughter, and Lee freed all of his slaves in 1850, 10 years before the Civil War. His plantation was nationalized and is today Arlington National Cemetary.

It was even possible at one point early in the was that Lee could have lead our Northern forces. He considered himself a Virginian first, and an American second, therefore he felt that he owed his first allegiance to the State of Virginia before the US. He was an able leader, having graduated at the top of his class at Westpoint.

This decision on the part of Lee to lead as a Virginian rather than as an American points up another cause of the Civil War - regionalism and state's rights.

Remember that LIncoln was the only president to order a massacre of Indians in Michigan

Hope that helps.
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#28 of 32 Old 05-04-2003, 03:49 AM
 
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I think that it's problematic to respect titles and offices. That's the sort of thig that sets up the systems where a small miority have poser over the majority and exploit that power. Seems to me the concept of "respect the office even if you dislike the man" is just another way to try to illegitimize critique and dissent.

That said, i do agree that everyone needs to be treated with respect. It just bugs me that some how if you have an "office" or a "title" you are MORE worthy of respect.
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#29 of 32 Old 05-04-2003, 10:45 AM
 
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See, the way I am looking at it is that the office represents the idea of this elected official representing the US populace.

This is why I say the problem of disrespect seems to begin within the office itself. Now, becoming President of the US is all about power--not humility and serving the people who voted you in.

So, you could say that the lack of respect for the Presidency--by the President--could be seen as a lack of respect for the people who chose him. And of course, couple that with an apathetic population too bored and busy watching TV to be insulted...and here we are.
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#30 of 32 Old 05-05-2003, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by UmmNuh
See, the way I am looking at it is that the office represents the idea of this elected official representing the US populace.

This is why I say the problem of disrespect seems to begin within the office itself. Now, becoming President of the US is all about power--not humility and serving the people who voted you in.

So, you could say that the lack of respect for the Presidency--by the President--could be seen as a lack of respect for the people who chose him. And of course, couple that with an apathetic population too bored and busy watching TV to be insulted...and here we are.
And where is "here"?
For those apathetic ones, they will be watching FOX and "Reality TV", but what about us not bored and TV watching folk? That leaves us scared poopydooless! And frustrated!
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