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#1 of 27 Old 05-17-2003, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.msnbc.com/news/913993.asp?0dm=C25IN
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“The folks in Washington made a fundamental mistake by thinking that we can beat George Bush by being ‘Bush lite,’” Dean said. “We need to stand up for what we believe — again.... If you make me the Democratic nominee, I’ll make you proud to be Democrats again.”
He said that many Democrats across the nation “are almost as mad at the Democratic Party as they are at the Republican Party.”
I can say AMEN to that!!!

It seems MSNBC really likes Dean, here are more links offered on the same Main page:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/914625.asp?0cv=CB30

http://www.msnbc.com/news/910162.asp?0dm=C2FIN

http://www.msnbc.com/news/912910.asp?0dm=C2BIN
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#2 of 27 Old 05-17-2003, 11:51 AM
 
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wasn;t that quote from the debate?? Regardless I remember him saying something similar during the debate and I was doing this

He is a little too smooth for my taste, but hell I love his political stance. I think this country could use more of the progressive laws that they have in VT nationwide. maybe he could get that antiquated "marriage protection" law reversed.
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#3 of 27 Old 05-18-2003, 12:57 AM
 
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Would be open to him, but the NRA giving him their highest rating has me thoroughly ... skeeved.

(No offense to any gun-toting mamas, hope you'll understand.)

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#4 of 27 Old 05-18-2003, 01:12 AM
 
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He ties to the pharmaceutical industry (being a Dr and all) concern me just as much as the NRA. But all in all he is a HUGE improvement over what we have now.
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#5 of 27 Old 05-18-2003, 01:52 AM
 
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#6 of 27 Old 05-18-2003, 07:14 PM
 
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El C... I admit I've gone back and forth on Dean, but after reading that he admits there is much to learn, I feel a bit re-energized about him.

Thanks for the great information.

I like the fact that Dean isn't as worried about his image, as he is about the issues.

He also admits he has much to learn, refreshing...

I hope he ends up on the Dem ticket somewhere, either as VP or Prez...

He seems to have some good ol' fashioned spunk and courage, my how we need that!

Re: the NRA, I've found no info on that, does anyone have any. I've heard Dean speak about GC and he sounds reasonable?

Also re: the pharm ties, I don't think all docs have blind faith in the pharm industry, KWIM?
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#7 of 27 Old 05-18-2003, 10:32 PM
 
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I too was excited about Dean until I read more about his gun policies. Unacceptable! I'm excited about John Edwards from N.C. He's very progressive -- he's the only guy out there I ever hear talk about civil rights issues. He's prochoice and he's got a great, dynamic wife. Are any of you watching him? What are your thoughts....
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#8 of 27 Old 05-20-2003, 12:21 PM
 
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I think that Deans Gun Control issues are what gives him a chance.

Personally, I know of at least 30 folks who voted for Bush last time SOLELY for his gun control policies. THey did not give a hoot about anything except that one issue. My step dad is a member of the NRA so I get to hear all about it.

For the record, we own a rifle. The shells are about 500 yards from the house where no kids can get them. THe gun is hidden and HUGE. Where I live, it has saved us a few times. We have water moccasins that occasionally come up to the nursery to lay on the weed fabric for heat. We also have a high pop of rabid animals.

I do not condone the use of water guns or any other shooting toys in my home NOR will I let my family take my children "hunting" until they hit puberty and express a wish to do so themselves. My entire family has a "you kill it, you eat it" policy (except with poisonous snakes and rabid animals).

Anyway, I would imagine all of this is hard to fathom for someone who is not incredibly rural, which is why I think Dean's policy on gun control is awesome! Let the local groups make thier decisions.
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#9 of 27 Old 05-20-2003, 05:30 PM
 
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ITA with Chanley's take on the gun control issue! VT is very different from NY, from NM, to CA.

Just wanted to add... what better first lady could we get than an MD who plans on continuing to work!?!?

Kay

 

 

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#10 of 27 Old 05-20-2003, 07:37 PM
 
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*ahem* I live in NY...where I live in rural NY is VERY much like rural VT. (People forget that NY is more than city and suburbs)

I own a gun and can use it safely. I am a mountain woman. (That does not negate my spirituality or compassion, intelligence, choice to be safe or my commitment to children and peace.)

I really don't like guns and would never use my gun unless it was a necessity.

There are actually MANY families, it was my surprise to learn while working at school here over the years, who still shoot and eat game. They actually do depend on their guns as tools of living. I have a close friend who lives up on a mt. across the valley from us who considers his gun his survival...he predominantly eats game as a mainstay, as well as wild greens and such. He is a very intelligent and well-read person. I respect him very much and he is a long time friend.

We are not the casual "weekend mt. men", who come from the city who don't know a deer from a cow, drink beer while hunting, or shoot one another. Neither are we likely going to be the ones to use a gun for murder or anything like that. In fact, the few murders that have happened hereabouts were strangulation, stabbing, etc. Guns were not involved in any way.

Rural life is different for sure...there are always exceptions, however. I think that Dr. Dean's ideas on guns are commonsense and balanced...and again, I REALLY don't like guns.

Now that you know I own and can use a gun...can you still respect me in the morning?...Joyce in the mts.

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#11 of 27 Old 05-21-2003, 02:48 AM
 
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Yes, I can respect anyone in the morning who owns a gun. That said ...

Can you or anyone who uses their gun to get their food live with waiting a few weeks to actually get their new gun? Can you live without assault weapons to get that food?



The NRA's view of Dean is that they gave him their highest rating. Now, precisely why they did that, I'm not sure, and no one on this thread has clarified it. Some mamas have told us they're gun owners/users, okay, fine. But that doesn't explain Dean's gun policy. Or why the NRA loves it so.
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#12 of 27 Old 05-21-2003, 11:01 AM
 
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Hi Amy!

Y'know, we (those who are rural and hunt for food, etc.) are NOT the ones buying assault style weapons. More likely and at least in what I have seen with my two eyes, it's those weekend "mt. men" from the city who have to blow game apart with guns like that. I find that truly disgusting not to mention wasteful, and always have found it so.

And believe me, come hunting season here, I am truly afraid for my own life walking with my dogs, for whom I also worry, out in the woods even on my own land. The tourist-hunters are really dangerous.

I don't hunt personally, and I like to have the deer and coyotes and turkeys and foxes on my land.

I don't know why anyone would want to use such outlandish weapons for hunting either. I guess it's a guy thing...probably compensating for something...KWIM?

I also don't care how long it takes to complete the background check stuff. They called it in...and it was pretty smooth and quick. I think that it is time well-spent and did not subject me to any indignity. It was a thorough questionnaire, a few minutes on the phone to call the info in, and I was happy to do it.

I am not a member of the NRA...so I don't know their group mind per se. Dean as far as I know, is for leaving it to the states to determine the laws pertaining to gun control. Perhaps that in itself is why the NRA gives him a high rating. I can see how it could be so.

Sorry I cannot be more helpful on that, but I am truly thinking that is the crux of it.

Joyce in the mts.

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#13 of 27 Old 05-21-2003, 12:03 PM
 
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If I thought gun control would save lives in Vermont, I would support it. If you say "gun control" in Vermont or Tennessee, people think you want to take away their hunting rifle. If you say "gun control" New York or L.A., people are happy to see Uzi's or illegal handguns taken off the streets. I think Vermont ought to be able to have a different set of laws than California. Let's keep and enforce the federal gun laws we have, close the gun show loophole using Insta-check, and then let the states decide for themselves what if any gun control laws they want. We need to get guns off the national radar screen if Democrats are ever going to win again in the South and the West. Just as we resist attempts by President Bush to dictate to the states how we run our school systems and what kind of welfare programs to have, we need to resist attempts to tell states how to deal with guns beyond existing Federal law.~Howard Dean
This is Deans position.

Dean on the issues
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#14 of 27 Old 05-21-2003, 01:51 PM
 
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Joyce---

The above post was what I was referring to earlier. I know most of NY is rural

Kay

 

 

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#15 of 27 Old 05-21-2003, 02:51 PM
 
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"The real debate is can we afford another tax cut when this president has run up the largest deficits in the history of the country and we have a war with no way to pay for it," said Dean. "The middle class people in this country are the ones who pay the bill and I'm going to put a stop to it."


Oops here's the link
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#16 of 27 Old 05-22-2003, 08:19 AM
 
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Will Pitt talks to Howard Dean:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/052203A.shtml

Enjoy...Joyce in the mts.

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#17 of 27 Old 05-22-2003, 09:59 AM
 
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Thanks for the interview. It was great. FIL (republican through and through) says he will vote for Dean if he is nominated and Ken Lay is not in serious trouble by the time of the election!!! I'm so excited.

kay

 

 

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#18 of 27 Old 05-22-2003, 11:07 AM
 
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I don't think I've run to the left. I am who I am, and I say who I am. I'm not saying anything different than I've said in my Governor's races. I don't think you run to the left or you run to the center. You go out there and lay out your ideas, and your ideas are the same in the primaries as they are in the general election. I'm more conservative on budgets and guns, and I'm pretty liberal on civil rights and health insurance and investing in children. People are just going to have to make up their minds if they can deal with all these different positions. I'm not unwilling to change positions based on facts, but I am unwilling to change positions based on polls.

Love that quote. Thanks Joyce!


Did you guys see this?!
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#19 of 27 Old 05-22-2003, 11:22 AM
 
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Re DLC:

I have been emailing them almost daily since that came out days ago...they probably press the delete button if they see my emails come in by now.

hehe!

Dr. Dean is NOT worried about it as stated in the interview.

...Joyce in the mts.

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#20 of 27 Old 05-22-2003, 11:29 AM
 
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Yea, he actually said it 'helped' him? Good News!
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#21 of 27 Old 05-22-2003, 03:52 PM
 
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T but it is apropros to some of the discussion above and I didn't think it was big enough to start a new thread over....As I've stated before in earlier threads on Dean, I think he's great.
I haven't stated a position on gun control, so here it is: I think the NRA has its head up its a** on any guns all the time. However, I am a hunter. (Umm, bowhunter only these days, though. But I still used a rifle to get all the pigeons out of the barn. Squab pie!) I agree with Dean on states rights issues (which are really states rights issues, not specifically gun law issues, even though those are some of the many things that get caught up in the ribbon). AND, the biggest problem to me right now with gun laws is the TOTAL LACK OF ENFORCEMENT OF LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS!!! ........... Sorry for yelling. .......... I mean, my god, if we had had decent enforcement, lots of things probably wouldn't have happened, from the Maryland sniper to the kids at Columbine. If 'security forces' are going to get money thrown at them, it would be nice if 'domestic security' meant that gun stores records were checked for discrepancy and fraud. It would be a lot better than sending bombs to the Middle East.
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#22 of 27 Old 05-22-2003, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by sohj
I am a hunter.
Somehow I didn't picture that from a Persian Peace Name I'm lurking and learning - thougth it was weird that I found 4 links to Dean on one day from one page. It is a very interesting talk, carry on , sorry for the interruption
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#23 of 27 Old 05-26-2003, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Found yet another . . .
http://www.msnbc.com/news/913993.asp?0dm=T2CENParty reckons with Dean phenomenon
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#24 of 27 Old 05-26-2003, 06:00 PM
 
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Chanley I agree COMPLETELY! It was the gun issue that lost Gore the election in my opinion. Even union members were voting against him because of that.

I also agree the gun control laws are not being enforced. Except Columbine, those were purchased legally it would have been difficult to know that she had given the boys the guns but now Colorado has laws that require background checks for all purchases at gun shows before the Columbine shooting the law only required background checks for dealers.

Not all those who wander are lost 
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#25 of 27 Old 05-26-2003, 08:38 PM
 
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Under fire from the Democratic Leadership Council, a key business-friendly group, presidential contender Howard Dean is thriving on the criticism, drawing excited crowds on the campaign trail and making an unexpectedly strong bid for the 2004 Democratic nomination.

And...

Quote:
“I find him a very exciting candidate, and I see a lot of energy for Dean in this state,” Berendt told MSNBC.com. “He’s really pushing back at Bush on the issues that people care about. And this is something Democrats have been yearning for — someone who will stand up to the Bush administration and to these policies which we think are a disaster.”
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#26 of 27 Old 05-27-2003, 03:03 PM
 
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I agree that an NRA endorsement for a Democrat may be the wedge that can really help get rid of the awful Bushies.

I'm always arguing with my husband the Libertarian about stuff like this. He says why don't the lefites in the ACLU protect the Second Ammendment? and I say, because the NRA is already doing it, so why duplicate the effort?"

So we have kind of agreed that we are both in favor of civil liberties, but with different emphisis.

I guess what I'm saying is that an NRA endorsement doesn't suggest to me that Dean is opposed to democratic values. It may just mean he has a broader view of civil liberties.

So far, I think Dean is a pretty exciting candidate.

--AmyB
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#27 of 27 Old 06-08-2003, 02:31 PM
 
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Today...! 2:00 Eastern time

That's 30 mns away. I imagine most of you have a life and wont see this in time. BUT..... Just in case.

D
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