Chronology of lies - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 32 Old 06-04-2003, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am interested in putting together a 'how it went down' chronology of events leading up to the war.

Here is the latest

Quote:
WASHINGTON - When all three major U.S. newsweeklies – Time, Newsweek and U.S. News & World Report – run major features on the same day on possible government lying, you can bet you have the makings of a major scandal.

And when the two most important outlets of neo-conservative opinion – The Weekly Standard and The Wall Street Journal – come out on the same day with lead editorials spluttering outrage about suggestions of government lying, you can bet that things are going to get very hot as summer approaches in Washington
I haven't watched the boob tube, but am curious if this is getting any TV media attention. I saw a ridiculous story briefly on MSNBC about how "Blair" is being investigated by parliment, funny they didn't mention the Congressional investigation taking place at home...

I am seriously interested in getting together a group of 'investigative moms' here in activism and providing our congress with 'evidence'... Any takers???
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#2 of 32 Old 06-04-2003, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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in September 2002, just as Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld was telling Congress that the Baghdad "regime has amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of chemical weapons, including VX, sarin, cyclosarin and mustard gas."

As we've talked about before, 'this' is why the Dems rolled over. They were lied too as were we. Damned fools believed the Bush Government...

If they find WMD tomorrow, they obviously had NO credible evidence they existed or they'd found them by now!
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#3 of 32 Old 06-04-2003, 05:02 PM
 
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As we've talked about before, 'this' is why the Dems rolled over. They were lied too as were we. Damned fools believed the Bush Government...
*This* is what I just don't understand. With Clinton, every little impropriety (and, of course, the big ones) were immediately jumped on. If I were a Dem, or even a Rep Sen/Rep I would be screaming, "I was lied to, too" as loud as I could. Unless they were "in" on it. What is going on here !?!?!?

 

 

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#4 of 32 Old 06-04-2003, 05:26 PM
 
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I believe the chronology would begin late last summer when Bush/Blair announced that Iraq, according to International Atomic Energy Agency, could have nuclear weapons in 6 months. A spokesman at Indiana for the IAEA when asked about this report by a reporter months later said, "Not only was there no new report saying that Saddam Hussein was six months away from having a nuclear weapon; we've never issued any such report."

http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/tr...macarthur.html

I like your idea of the "Activism" board members actually becoming active.
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#5 of 32 Old 06-04-2003, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree! I get sooo pi$$ed at their politeness and or fear, it drives me nuts.

I plan to start sending evidence to Bob Graham and Senator John McCain. McCain is a Repub, but I respect his stand on campaign finance reform ect. They are in the beginning stages of an investigation.

Anyone want to help? We can put together evidence via the net and at least get them a start with names etc... I don't think it could hurt?

I also intend to urge my dem reps to 'SPEAK OUT' and be certain that every flaw in this rush to war is exposed!

GGGGGRRRRR!!!!
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#6 of 32 Old 06-04-2003, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I cross posted w/ you cumulus.

I plan to put together quotes from the administration leading the way to war, and then provide info that I/we have come across here and other places. HELP MAMAS, lets make an impact! We can make a difference, either that or I am on a manic high, and I'm not manic so????

There is much information available and any help I can give, I will!

Cumulus, I recall these statments and I also recall the CIA saying they were pressured to 'falsify' evidence. HMMMM!

AND.....guess whats on forefront of American News, Martha Fargen Stewart???!!!
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#7 of 32 Old 06-04-2003, 09:01 PM
 
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Devi ~ I will try to help if I can. One thing to look at is interviews with Scott Ritter - former UN weapons inspector-who has been saying over and over there are/were no WMD's in Iraq.

Dang, we need to get Hilary on the case..between the 2 of you there could be an impeachment trial in the making
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#8 of 32 Old 06-04-2003, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Deirdre~I sooo appreciate your help! My dh thinks I'm wasting my time, but I figure it can't hurt right? If they knew what 'we' do they would never have authorized this BS war in the first place. After all, they don't spend time here at mothering :LOL

I've got links to contact the key players, Graham, Waxman and even Kucinich as he is calling for 'justice'. Right now I'm compliling data to send, just need some ideas for strategy????

Should I start a new thread asking for help?
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#9 of 32 Old 06-04-2003, 10:19 PM
 
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I'll hunt around.

Vietnam was launched with a lie also. Gulf of Tonkin. Nuthin' ever came of it except 60,000 dead soliders and over a million dead Vietnamese...............
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#10 of 32 Old 06-04-2003, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Els said~Vietnam was launched with a lie also. Gulf of Tonkin. Nuthin' ever came of it except 60,000 dead soliders and over a million dead Vietnamese
Very true Els

Buuuut... Bush is up for re-election. And, we should do everything in our power to expose this admin before Nov of 2004... It may do not do any good, but its 'something'..?

I posted this elsewhere, but it outlines the beginnings of the investigation aka probe...

Here is our focal point:

Quote:
The US Congress has ordered an investigation into possible abuse of intelligence information about alleged weapons of mass destruction in Iraq

And...

Henry Waxman, a California Democrat on the House Government Reform Committee, called on Mr Bush to explain why the administration cited dubious and later discredited documents to back its claims about Iraqi weapons.
I think it begins next month, so I want to 'try' to get info compiled before hand. I may be insane, but I doubt they or their assistants use the internet for research?

Thanky!!!!!

I want to focus on WMD and fabricating evidence. That should make it easier ey?

I appreciate your support/ideas guys...
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#11 of 32 Old 06-04-2003, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And am hoping she'll help us out...
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#12 of 32 Old 06-05-2003, 12:34 AM
 
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Awww, Devi, I didn't mean to rain on your parade.

I'm in!!! I'll see if I can google the next couple of days and put up what I find.

Here is a link to the whole of congress so we can all contact our reps:

Congress

I think hammering at tv and radio stations might do more. The Dems are going to tread very carefully and would really like this to go quietly under a rug....................they are complicit and they damn well know it. Like you said, it is an election year!!



But, in the end, it was the protests that brought an end to 'Nam. THE PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER!!!


“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, commited citizens
can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.”
Margaret Mead

El
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#13 of 32 Old 06-05-2003, 04:11 AM
 
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I, for one, am sleeping better now, knowing that HILARY is back and on the case!!
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#14 of 32 Old 06-05-2003, 08:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hilary
I would have thought you would have been the first to start a petition to have me fired. who needs a ranter?????
WHERE ON EARTH DID YOU GET THAT IDEA? Do you really think that of me? I still admire you even if you don't respect my profession!! Really!
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#15 of 32 Old 06-05-2003, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Sound the trumpets! Hilary to the rescue...

Thank you HILARY!!!



And....this is Hilary
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#16 of 32 Old 06-05-2003, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Els' 3 Ones
Awww, Devi, I didn't mean to rain on your parade.

I'm in!!! I'll see if I can google the next couple of days and put up what I find.

Here is a link to the whole of congress so we can all contact our reps:

Congress

I think hammering at tv and radio stations might do more. The Dems are going to tread very carefully and would really like this to go quietly under a rug....................they are complicit and they damn well know it. Like you said, it is an election year!!



But, in the end, it was the protests that brought an end to 'Nam. THE PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER!!!


“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, commited citizens
can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.”
Margaret Mead

El
Right On!

Hey Els~Thanks, don't worry about raining on parades, I stopped having them after 'selection' 2000. Great idea about contacting the Television media and 'demanding' they give this some attention.

I think we should start by providing links here... if Hilary hasn't uncovered everything already

Then compile a list of 'important' people. There are about 4 key people in the gov working on this.

1. Henry Waxman Dem
2. Bob Graham Dem
3. John McCain Repub
4. John ?? Repub

And, Dennis Kucinich (Dem presidential candidate) has been very outspoken??

Then we should set a time limit. I think perhaps by Wednesday of next week we could have all our links 'in'. And then decide how to provide the info and to whom???

Thoughts/suggestions appreciated!
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#17 of 32 Old 06-05-2003, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Are the Dems waking up???

Except for Lieberman and Gephardt of course :Puke


Quote:
Republicans agree. "I think there's enough trust and confidence in Bush's leadership that if there was bad intelligence, people will blame the CIA," said Don Sipple, a Republican strategist and occasional White House advisor. "The American people tend to be results oriented and seem to feel the war came out OK."
Blame the CIA!! The administration pressured the CIA to alter information did they not?

There is our smoking gun, I know I saw a story about how the CIA was pressured into providing false/altered evidence?

Here it is! Although it pertains to Al Qaida, it may be relevent in establishing a pattern as Hil says?

One of Hilarys links of course

Sorry for rambling and thinking out loud.

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#18 of 32 Old 06-05-2003, 01:51 PM
 
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This may help and I will find more...Joyce in the mts.

From Counterpunch:

A PNAC Primer
How We Got Into This Mess
By BERNARD WEINER
Recently, I was the guest on a radio talk-show hosted by a thoroughly decent far-right Republician. I got verbally battered, but returned fire and, I think, held my own. Toward the end of the hour, I mentioned that the National Security Strategy -- promulgated by the Bush Administration in September 2002 -- now included attacking possible future competitors first, assuming regional hegemony by force of arms, controlling energy resources around the globe, maintaining a permanent-war strategy, etc.

"I'm not making up this stuff," I said. "It's all talked about openly by the neoconservatives of the Project for the New American Century -- who now are in charge of America's military and foreign policy -- and published as official U.S. doctrine in the National Security Strategy of the United States of America."

The talk-show host seemed to gulp, and then replied: "If you really can demonstrate all that, you probably can deny George Bush a second term in 2004."

More here:
http://www.counterpunch.org/weiner05282003.html

CD Labor/Postpartum (MSTM), Doula trainer (BAI), Midwifery Student/Apprentice, CPS Tech
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#19 of 32 Old 06-05-2003, 01:59 PM
 
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War: Mental health hygiene for the nation

Jun-04-03, 10:29 PM (ET)
Bush safe from Iraq weapons fallout
WASHINGTON (AFP) Jun 05, 2003


Charles Pena, a specialist on defense policy at the CATO Institute in Washington, said though no weapons of mass destruction nor links with al-Qaeda had been found, "Now it's not discussed.

"Polls show that Americans don't really care whether we find WMD or not.

"For America this war was cathartic. It was about regaining a sense of pride and confidence after September 11. Even after Afghanistan there was still an existential need to kick some butt and Saddam Hussein was an easy target," said Pena. . . .

http://www.spacewar.com/2003/030605010505.u0kxctfd.html

I find this damn chilling, right to the bone. We bombed the crap out of poor, sick, and frightened fellow humans: over 50% children, to regain our friggin' wounded "MOJO"!?

Shame and pity for those who supported this war...Joyce in the mts.

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#20 of 32 Old 06-05-2003, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Joyce chilling is right! Glad to see you...

From your story...

Quote:
"Polls show that Americans don't really care whether we find WMD or not.

"For America this war was cathartic. It was about regaining a sense of pride and confidence after September 11. Even after Afghanistan there was still an existential need to kick some butt and Saddam Hussein was an easy target," said Pena.
People dont care!! *sigh*

I have a list of contacts i.e. those working on this in the Senate...

Here is a brief summary..

Senate investigation

Committee Members

This could be good....

Todays headlines

If the media makes it an issue, it will become an issue.


Out for today.
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#21 of 32 Old 06-05-2003, 03:31 PM
 
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Interesting..."Scooter" Libby is another PNAC guy...check it out!

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...700335400.html

Multiple visits to the CIA by the United States Vice-President, Dick Cheney, created an environment in which some analysts felt they were being pressured to make their assessments on Iraq fit with Bush Administration policy objectives, intelligence officials said.

They said Mr Cheney and his chief of staff, "Scooter" Libby, questioned analysts studying Iraq's weapons programs and alleged links to al-Qaeda.

Mr Cheney took the lead in the Administration last August in advocating military action against Iraq by claiming it had weapons of mass destruction.

The visits "sent signals, intended or otherwise, that a certain output was desired from here", one agency official said.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...r=emailarticle

Vice President Cheney and his most senior aide made multiple trips to the CIA over the past year to question analysts studying Iraq's weapons programs and alleged links to al Qaeda, creating an environment in which some analysts felt they were being pressured to make their assessments fit with the Bush administration's policy objectives, according to senior intelligence officials.

With Cheney taking the lead in the administration last August in advocating military action against Iraq by claiming it had weapons of mass destruction, the visits by the vice president and his chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, "sent signals, intended or otherwise, that a certain output was desired from here," one senior agency official said yesterday.

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#22 of 32 Old 06-05-2003, 06:17 PM
 
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Thank you for all the info. Hilary!!

They called you in and you came through!!!



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#23 of 32 Old 06-05-2003, 07:03 PM
 
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hilary, you are truely awe-inspiring!!! no way can i read all those links (and take care of dd and the house), but i so admire your wealth of info. and abilitiy to put it in cogent form!

too bad you can't run for prez...........
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#24 of 32 Old 06-05-2003, 07:08 PM
 
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Wow! Hilary, that is an incredible amount of information. Thanks!
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#25 of 32 Old 06-06-2003, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow!

I have got more links, but I may duplicate as I have not had time to peruse all of yours. I'll post mine later.

I plan to send the Senate Intelligence Committee and some key dems loads of information for their arsenal. They may have it already, but it 'caint hurt'...

SOOOOO glad to see you here!

Stick around.

Denise aka Devi
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#26 of 32 Old 06-08-2003, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey gang, I posted this at Dem Underground

Thanks for your links/support guys. Next I'd like to construct a form/base letter with info that people could use... Not sure if I'll have time though?

Quote:
We are in the midst of a potential Bush white house scandal.

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/15...ligence+.shtml

Quote:
From the Boston Globe~"A Central Command planner told Newsweek that the CIA's information on the sites where weapons of mass destruction were stored was ''crap.'' An intelligence official told US News and World Report that ''the policy decisions weren't matching the reports we were reading every day.'' In a 2002 document, the Defense Intelligence Agency concluded, ''There is no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons."''
As citizens of this country WE must demand our elected officials not drop the ball. Write your newspapers/congress/senate....

There is an investigation underway.
http://intelligence.senate.gov/030604.htm

Don't let the media/senate/congress and most of all BUSH off the hook. We still have a say, lets use it!

Write the senate intelligence committee members here:
http://intelligence.senate.gov/members.htm

Find your elected officials here...

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

http://www.senate.gov/

More information below.....

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16063

http://www.opednews.com/vetsIntelligence_fiasco.htm

http://www.prospect.org/print-friend...reyfuss-r.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/04/in...al/04WEAP.html

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/talla...cs/4233223.htm

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Dail...999022421.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...807194,00.html

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/6404

http://find.slate.com/id/2080583

http://www.ccmep.org/2002_articles/Iraq/101001_cia.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...-bamford_x.htm

http://slate.msn.com/id/2083760/

http://www.msnbc.com/news/919753.asp#BODY

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13098

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in520830.shtml

http://lists.freelives.ca/pipermail/...er/000584.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com.../12_lying.html

"Lets Roll!"
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#27 of 32 Old 06-08-2003, 05:46 PM
 
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You may find this an article of interest (note the author):
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030606.html
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#28 of 32 Old 06-08-2003, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Rowansdad~Wow. I've just skimmed the article, but so far it looks great!

Thanks
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#29 of 32 Old 06-10-2003, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Listed here...

I have a letter in the works:
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#30 of 32 Old 06-10-2003, 03:38 PM
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RD, thank you! That is one awesome piece by John Dean.

He should know, eh?

Thanks for all your hard work and research, Devi.

I see that Year One costs for running Iraq (no one really believed that we would let Iraq run their country, right?) is estimated at over 45 Billion. Where is that money going to come from? Halliburton and Bechtel subsidiaries can't be funding that, no?
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