I would like to hear from those of you who were in favor of the war... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 57 Old 06-18-2003, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I would love to say "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" but, that would be wrong.

But, seriously, aren't you angry for being lied to by your president and his "people"???? I know I would be. I mean to risk our very young sons and daughters for a lie!!!! I am one very angry American woman!!!! And our innocent and brave military men and women are still risking their lives every single day~!!! It doesn't make the headlines much anymore but they are miserable. And should have never had to be in this situation.


I believe Bush's handling of this war on Iraq has been directly responsible for increased terrorist activities worldwide, increased violence between Palestine and Israel, hatred against the U.S.A being at an all time high, loss of jobs, crumbling economy, environmental disasters, and so on.........


Here is a good link to a story:


http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid...administration

QUOTE:
"Turner's broadside adds the retired admiral's name to a list of former intelligence professionals concerned that the CIA and its intelligence reports were manipulated to justify the war. Since Baghdad fell April 9, U.S. forces have been unable to find chemical and biological weapons the White House said were in Iraq"
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#2 of 57 Old 06-18-2003, 08:29 PM
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Gawd, haven't we heard enough from those supporting the invasion?

I mean, they have Iran to look forward to next. What more could A Charge To Keep kinda person need?

Please. I can find the pro-invasion, pro-murder, 'they are better off now', 'we liberated the people' rhetoric with both eyes closed.

The truth isn't heard enough for me.
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#3 of 57 Old 06-18-2003, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, BUT I really am wondering how they could justify this?? The pro-war folks here at MDC are actually pretty cool. I guess I am hoping for an admission of mistakenly being taken in by Bush & Co. Maybe they have even lost faith in their republican leardership????? Perhaps a light bulb went on and they have "seen the light!"

I guess I may be expecting too much!!!:

marg
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#4 of 57 Old 06-18-2003, 08:46 PM
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Sorry, I forgot about 'hope'. It's all so deflating for me these days.

Yes, maybe there are those who see the truth but before were blind.

Thanks for that reminder.

Based on my small sample (family, neighborhood), they all believe Dubya and would be ripe for supporting the invasion of Iran. More flags than ever and lots of 'we had to show the world we won't tolerate terrorism!'
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#5 of 57 Old 06-18-2003, 08:49 PM
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Well, NM, you never came to my mind when I wrote my response to Marg's call for those supporting the war.

You are as free to post here as any of us. Your choice. But don't assume I'm talking about you because unless I say I am, I'm not.
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#6 of 57 Old 06-18-2003, 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by Nursing Mother
Well if you consider my posts are about the only ones supporting this, I guess I've made quite a negative impression and you're pretty fed up hearing my POV.

So I'll refrain from this topic.

(and its not because I have nothing to say about it)
SOME of us are interested in hearing your point of view (and appreciate your persistence in this forum, however much we might frequently disagree with your perspectives )!

I guess _my_ question to you, NM, and to anyone else who supported the war, is whether you are upset that the Bush administration apparently lied (or, if one wishes to be charitable, took prodigious liberties with the truth) in order to justify a preemptive war? I can imagine being upset about this even if one still believes that unseating Saddam Hussein by force was justified for other reasons.
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#7 of 57 Old 06-18-2003, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi! N.M>!! Yes, you were one of the "pretty cool" posters I was referring to!! I just want to know,

Are there any regrets???

Will you have a harder time being convinced that a country does have WMDs without strong proof??


Have you been at all disillusioned??

Hope you will write more, Anna....

marg
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#8 of 57 Old 06-18-2003, 09:40 PM
 
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This may be T but I read a letter to the editor in today's paper regarding the fact that many reservists are still in Iraq while active duty folks have been sent home. I don't know much about this but she seemed quite ticked that they were using reservists to maintain the occupation.

Also, is it just me or does it seem like a few more US soldiers are killed everyday in Iraq? How long will the US public accept this? Or do they care?

Anyway, I am not holding my breath for a "you were right" on MDC but I must say the Letters to the Editor in my NJ paper sure sway in the direction of people quite annoyed with the situation. I would say 4 letters irrate at the Bush admin. to one letter in support.

~Deirdre
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#9 of 57 Old 06-18-2003, 09:45 PM
 
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I think it's only a matter of time before we start seeing lawsuits brought against the government by the families of maimed or killed servicemen, for prosecuting an illegal, and unnecessary war. Wouldn't it be ironic to see Jessica Lynch testifying against the president that destroyed her life???
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#10 of 57 Old 06-18-2003, 10:03 PM
 
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many reservists are still in Iraq while active duty folks have been sent home
This went on in the first Gulf War also. Many families of reservists were upset about staying in Kuwait and Iraq and Saudi Arabia while the "regulars" were sent home. BTW, one of the regulars that came home was my brother, who had already stayed well past his contract to go to Iraq. I think it all depends, and I suspect it isn't "fair".

I don't think we should allow this president to take us into another war before this issue about intelligence and WMD is settled.

Furthermore, I don't think we should allow another such invasion unless the press ban at Dover AFB is lifted. Our slain troops deserve to be given respect by any US citizen watching tv, standing at attention, at that time. This is not to exploit the families, but for US citizens to "see" that there is price that is being paid in blood.

This White House has effectively white-washed these losses, IMO, just like the press has ignored the deaths and suffering of thousands of Iraqis.
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#11 of 57 Old 06-18-2003, 10:54 PM
 
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I think many people are seriously delusioned about the war. I read (and if I remember where, I will post, I think it was the Toronto Star) that over half of the US residents polled believed that WMDs were actually found in Iraq and that about 1/3 of those polled believed that Iraq used chemical and/or biological weapons against the US/British coalition.


THAT really frightens me.
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#12 of 57 Old 06-18-2003, 11:42 PM
 
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1 - We are not going to 'invade' Iran. Please. My prayers (and the president's I am sure) are with those protesting Iranian student in hopes they find the strength and numbers to overthrow that government themselves. If it takes covert help by us, that's fine with me. But, no good would come from a military invasion.

2 - I see no evidence that the administration 'lied' just because nothing has been found yet. And, many others had access to the same classified info, including Dems in Congress, and concluded the same thing, that SH needed to go. What really scares me is that the WMD are already in the hands of potential terrorists.

3 - I will never say we were wrong for taking Saddam out of power. Egads no.
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#13 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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You are a brave woman Delta!

See, N.M.? There are others out there!!

Delta, just as you have said that you have had no evidence that we have been lied to, I felt the same way about there not being enough evidence of Iraq threatening my country with WMDs to justify starting a war against them.

Just has you have said that you are happy to have Saddam out of power, I am worried about who will rule next and the current state of affairs in Iraq and Afghanistan. America just can't go around knocking down regimes and leaving a mess.


Instigating a war against another country is serious business. If you believe that it is O.K. to start a war with another country without the support of NATO because it's leader has started wars and committed vile acts against his own people and is basically sub-human, that is where we differ. Before a first strike I believe there must be clear and present danger. It is that simple.

Thanks for "coming out" here.....

marg
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#14 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 12:27 AM
 
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T Marg, your PM box is full... and please check your e-mail.
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#15 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 12:49 AM
 
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A lot of people in the service were puzzled and annoyed by the decisions that put many reservists out in the field while leaving active duty members stateside. I have not heard any official explaination for that policy.
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#16 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 01:15 AM
 
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I think it's very important to President Bush that some form of WMD are discovered. I support our President and I supported the invasion of Iraq.

BUT....... I think that there needs to be some proof that there were WMD. So far, nada. That we know about. Were they moved to Syria? Was our intellegence bad? (no pun intended)

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

PS, NM You are not alone!!!! You are my hero here at MDC
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#17 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 01:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Delta
I see no evidence that the administration 'lied' just because nothing has been found yet. And, many others had access to the same classified info, including Dems in Congress, and concluded the same thing, that SH needed to go. What really scares me is that the WMD are already in the hands of potential terrorists.
Delta thanks for posting

However the statement above is not accurate. The Dems saw no 'evidence' they were given a presentation, much like the one given to the UN. They were told Saddam posed a threat to the United States. And, perhaps feeling vulnerable after 911 the Dems 'bit'. They, like the American public 'trusted' the Bush administration.

Interesting to note that now Republicans in congress refuse to support legislation (HR 260) that would actually allow the Dems and others to see the so called evidence against Saddam Hussein. Why?? If Bush is on the up and up, they should have nothing to fear.

Peruse the threads, you'll find lots of information about former CIA officals saying Bush and co. lied...

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#18 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 10:47 AM
 
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Tell this woman that it's okay that her husband gave his life...for a lie. She deserves better than the struggle ahead. I wonder if Bush did his duty and hugged her to make it ok?

http://shelbynews.com/Main.asp?Secti...rticleID=24008


CD Labor/Postpartum (MSTM), Doula trainer (BAI), Midwifery Student/Apprentice, CPS Tech
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#19 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 11:11 AM
 
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I will never say we were wrong for taking Saddam out of power. Egads no.
ITA.
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#20 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 11:30 AM
 
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This may be but I read a letter to the editor in today's paper regarding the fact that many reservists are still in Iraq while active duty folks have been sent home. I don't know much about this but she seemed quite ticked that they were using reservists to maintain the occupation.
Got to get the active duty men and women ready for the next place. Like it or not.

I find it interesting that the woman in charge of handling the press for the defense (cannot remember the position--sorry) has also resigned, citing the desire "to spend more time with her family." I know it's been said that people resign from administrations all the time, and this is nothing new, but this seems serial to me, and the use of an identical "stock" answer seems suspect to me.
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#21 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 12:29 PM
 
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Originally posted by Joyce in the mts.
Tell this woman that it's okay that her husband gave his life...for a lie. She deserves better than the struggle ahead. I wonder if Bush did his duty and hugged her to make it ok?

http://shelbynews.com/Main.asp?Secti...rticleID=24008
I wanted to post about that. I went to grade school and high school with Shawn Pahnke.. he was a grade ahead of me and we are from the same town.

My mom told me he had been killed. I did a search on google for his name, and found this article:

http://ia.theindychannel.com/news/2084193/detail.html

It makes it even worse, to me.
It's all heartbreaking and completely senseless. IMO. What did he die for?
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#22 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 12:40 PM
 
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UmmNuh, ITA. It's coming and I can't believe ppl will not see it..........

This sucks.


El
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#23 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 12:55 PM
 
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I hear this empty statement all over from the right. Well we did the right thing any how??? I'll never regret taking out Saddam?

Do you regret that we were lied to? Do you regret that as many as 10,000 'innocent' men, woman and children (and counting) died in the process? Do you regret that we spent loads of money we don't have on a senseless war? Do you regret that we had no legal right to invade Iraq (under international law) especially given SH wasn't a clear and present danger to the US?

I personally resent the fact that our senate/congress made decisions based on Bush's lies. I resent not allowing the UN to have a voice. I resent the fact that my country has no regard for international law. I resent the fact that about 10,000 people are dead with the help of 'my' tax dollars. I resent the fact that our government spent loads of money on a war, so Bush and his friends could profit while we set record deficits here at home. I resent being called unpatriotic because I knew the truth. I resent (most of all) the fact that Americans by and large, simply don't give a $hit.

GRRRRR!
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#24 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 12:58 PM
 
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Originally posted by kama'aina mama
A lot of people in the service were puzzled and annoyed by the decisions that put many reservists out in the field while leaving active duty members stateside. I have not heard any official explaination for that policy.
Probably b/c there getting ready for Iran?
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#25 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 02:26 PM
 
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Originally posted by Devi
Probably b/c there getting ready for Iran?
Doubtful, especially with the loon in North Korea still 'running' the show there.

There is *NO* stomach anywhere among the so-called coalition of the willing to take any military action against Iran. And as stupid as you folks think the American people are, there is nothing close to what Dubya and his posse can glom onto (such as Iraq's history of beligerance with its neighbors etc.) to pitch it to the voters...I mean the people.

His gamble in Iraq right now is looking very very shaky (imagine if Blair goes down in UK).

That's not even getting into the fact that militarily would be much much tougher than a sanction-starved Iraqi.

Plus, the clerics in charge seem to have/will soon have problems on the inside: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/16/in...st/16IRAN.html

Eye-popping demographic: 70 percent of Iranians are under 30 and a ton of them apparently hate their government.

With regards to the "at least we took Saddam out of power/freed the Iraqi people" blather, I'd wager cold hard cash that a majority of the folks regurgitating this party line 1) didn't give a rat's ass about the Iraqi people lo these many years since Desert Storm (and still *really* don't) and 2) were apoplectic when Bubba and NATO saved many Kosovo Albanians from being liquidated by Slobodan Milosevic's goons, much like their Balkan brothers and sisters in Bosnia et al. were.
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#26 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 02:51 PM
 
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RD said~There is *NO* stomach anywhere among the so-called coalition of the willing to take any military action against Iran. And as stupid as you folks think the American people are, there is nothing close to what Dubya and his posse can glom onto (such as Iraq's history of beligerance with its neighbors etc.) to pitch it to the voters...I mean the people.
Well RD I sure hope your right. The optimist in me says you are. But, I am continually shocked at this administration's blatent disregard for American Public opinion. Remember "We the people of the United States of America" ... are but a focus group in the eyes of this administration....: So???

Special forces 'prepare for Iran attack'

Quote:
"This is not a question of crying Wolfowitz," a Washington defence insider said, referring to the calls to deal with the "axis of evil" of rogue states - which include Iran - by the hawkish deputy defence secretary Paul Wolfowitz. "The threat is real."


OHHHHH, 'this' time it's a 'real' threat.
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#27 of 57 Old 06-19-2003, 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by Delta
1 - We are not going to 'invade' Iran. Please.
Whew. What a relief. Good to know.

I believe I became confused recently when Dubya voiced his upset over Iran and their alleged creation of nuclear weaponry.

Quote:
The international community must come together to make it very clear to Iran that we will not tolerate construction of a nuclear weapon," President Bush said
It was too recent in the past for me not to recall Dubya's intolerance for Iraq's weaponry.

Of course, this is a separate issue from the hypocrisy.
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#28 of 57 Old 06-20-2003, 09:42 AM
 
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When they quote him, they should spell it NU*KEW*LER.
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#29 of 57 Old 06-20-2003, 10:37 AM
 
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Why does no one have a problem with leaving a mass-murderer in power? Sadaam truly was a bad ol' baddy. WMD haven't been found (yet), but mass-graves a plenty.
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#30 of 57 Old 06-20-2003, 03:46 PM
 
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I agree momto6
When there is ever a war going on or ending or whatever Not everyone is happy or do they agree with whats going on or what went on. Do I support Bush Hell yes. Do I agree with the war.
I do and I dont.
I do agree for the fact that yea He needed to be put out of power. To have his own people scared to death of him . Scared to express their opions and their veiws and whatever else. Forced to "agree" with whatever he was saying for the saftey of their friends and Family members. The free will killing in the streets and rapes made for his pleasure. He is truely a monster. Do i think that this war was good in general. Yes because You see how the people over there now roam freely and how they just have a overall releif look among their faces. They have freedom for the first time in how many years. I dont know I just see us going there a good thing for some of them points, But I am also a Mother and Wife to a Ex service member. I Know what it is like to have your spouce loved one or whatever to be taken away with out much notice to be sent to a far off place to not hear from them for many days weeks on end , I have been there and No its NOT a good thing. But my hubby always told me This is what I wanted to do this is what I have singed up to do for my country. Does it make me feel better? Not really Does it make me Proud HEll yea. There is always that chance of being killed in action or not even in action. You have to understand these people know what they are getting into when they go in the service, If they dont then they really need to think twice about what they are doing. There is always that risk. Does it make it right . (to be sent off ) thats not for me to decide. Do i like it No Do i support the president. YEs. Because I am sure he is hurting for these families as well and hes not going to just put our (his) people at risk in a war situation just because he wants to gain power. Its all a very sad thing. Its sad that we had to go there and its sad that we have had people die and still dying. But its also sad that there are such inhuman monsters out there killing their own people. Putting such threat on them and making them scared to even breath. To throw them in a grave with bodies on top of bodies. Thats just wrong. And I feel as if alot of people are Compairing our President to this and thats just wrong its just not right at all. its a hard hard thing to sort through , I understand where alot of you are coming from and I totally respect your thoughts. If you dont like the president then do all you can and vote someone else in this is why out country is so great we have the power to change things . The power to voice our thoughts and the will to live freely as we want to. I know I have just went on a rambling spree. But there is so many sides to everythere there never is just a right way or a wrong way to do things. I think that anyone in mr bush spot would of done the same thing MAybe not at the same time but in the end it would of been the same . I know I wouldnt want that weight on my shoulders. Hope you all have a wonderful day and thanks for listening to my Mumble Jumble
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