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#61 of 86 Old 07-24-2003, 07:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marg of Arabia
What is your point?? R.D.?
There was a question as to why the pics of the morte Hussein boys was released here in the US and answered the question herself by observing "we're" such a sick society. In light of the fact that media around the world appear to have plastered on their websites (note, many of which do not have a 'warning'), I was just wondering how broad the scope of 'society' was.
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#62 of 86 Old 07-24-2003, 07:58 PM
 
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#63 of 86 Old 07-24-2003, 08:12 PM
 
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Wow, the Iraqi people have been asking for consistent food, clean water, electricity and for their children to stop dying from easily cured diseases. Seems to me that this admin. has priorities a little twisted when it comes to fulfilling the requests of the Iraqi people.
What do you think the troops are still doing over there? Thats EXACTLY what we are trying to help them with, peace, stability and I-N-F-R-A-S-T-R-U-C-T-U-R-E, so that their society can thrive and grow.

However, it seems some people here just want them out of there.

Either that or they are just so blinded by hatred for this administration that they can't think straight.

Cheers.
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#64 of 86 Old 07-24-2003, 08:34 PM
 
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Thanks for the answer! I thought you meant something else!




Quote:
"When he returned his Mom asked what the people of Iraq want/need from us, i.e. food, water, money, medicine. His reply was that the Iraqi people want one thing and one thing only: for the the US to get out of their country."

You mean those bastards aren't grateful???: :

We have NO BUSINESS THERE!!!
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#65 of 86 Old 07-24-2003, 08:39 PM
 
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Maybe not, but they're there now and some/many Iraqis apparently don't want them to leave too soon:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...999751,00.html
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#66 of 86 Old 07-24-2003, 09:55 PM
 
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Hilary - I'm not sure that the fact that amazon.com is not (yet) carrying the book is very relevant. The book, I believe, is by UK Guardian journalists? UK books are usually listed on amazon.co.uk for a long time before getting listed on amazon.com - and many never do.

Now, if amazon.com get a lot of requests for the book, and the publisher wants to hit an international audience, it may reach amazon.com - but that is not political, just a business issue. Books have to be on catalogue lists etc before reaching amazon, it's often a tedious process.

There is not always a conspiracy afoot.
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#67 of 86 Old 07-25-2003, 10:03 AM
 
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You're right R.D., I was referring to the US in my "sick society" comment. I'll have to ammend that to say "it's a sick world".

Delta
Quote:
What do you think the troops are still doing over there? Thats EXACTLY what we are trying to help them with, peace, stability and I-N-F-R-A-S-T-R-U-C-T-U-R-E, so that their society can thrive and grow.
So, are we doing that job? Last I heard, electricity was not dependable, water was scarce, peace is nowhere in sight...looks like we're doing a stellar job.
We've been there how long? And there saying today that it will take 60 days to restore power and water.
http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=24594
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#68 of 86 Old 07-25-2003, 11:01 AM
 
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Hilary,

I may be wrong, but I would think that if Faber&Faber want their book stocked by amazon, it will happen. It may take a little time though. We'll see.

Now, how many Americans will buy it, literally and figuratively speaking, we'd have to see.
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#69 of 86 Old 07-25-2003, 06:53 PM
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:LOL

I'm sure Rush Limbaugh has a different perspective on the matter, as well.
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#70 of 86 Old 07-25-2003, 07:17 PM
 
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#71 of 86 Old 07-25-2003, 07:21 PM
 
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Rush would want some Smart Bombs directed at any gay Iraqis our US Forces uncover. That would be his unique dittohead perspective.

:LOL
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#72 of 86 Old 07-25-2003, 07:21 PM
 
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mahdokht can you elaborate?

Interesting perspective, NM.

If we need to completely dismiss it, I'd like to know why. Has Mr Taheri not been to Iraq? Or does he have another agenda?

(I could do some research about him but don't have a lot of time, so Mahdokht, if you could fill us in??)

Thanks!
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#73 of 86 Old 07-25-2003, 07:23 PM
 
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We (the US) took this guy out....

"took this guy out..." Is that a polite way of saying we killed him!!!!

Oh how weird. We look at pictures of the dead guys and get all happy. But we can't say killed, murdered, maimed, heads blown off, brains blown out. Picture a 14 yr old with his brains blown out. My god what have we done. The killing never stops, the pain never ends, the lies never cease.
How can anyone believe we are all one, and rejoice at the death of another of us?
How will the earth survive if we continue to kill one another at this rate and dance at news of someones brains being blown out and half his head shot off?
I can hardly bear it.


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#74 of 86 Old 07-25-2003, 07:28 PM
 
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Oh and by the way...

The I-N-F-R-A-S-T-R-U-C-T-U-R-E would not have so terribly destroyed if MY tax dollars had not helped pay for the bombing of a country that did nothing to attack us. Oh, now we can be hero's for fixing the freakin I-N-F-A-S-T-R-U-C-T-U-R-E, that we purposefully destroyed!!!!!!!!
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#75 of 86 Old 07-25-2003, 07:37 PM
 
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Ok, I was too curious, and so took some more time (should be working right now) and looked up Mr. Taheri's credentials. Amongst many other publications, he has written for some very well respected UK papers across the political spectrum - icluding The Guardian, an extremely liberal newspaper.

I dont see any reason to totally dismiss what he has to say.

: : :
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#76 of 86 Old 07-25-2003, 07:41 PM
 
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I don't think he's being dismissed because of his credentials, but because of what he's saying. I could be wrong.

I did a google search, found the same page as NM. I also went through five more pages of results and found nothing scandalous reported about him.
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#77 of 86 Old 07-25-2003, 09:22 PM
 
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#78 of 86 Old 07-26-2003, 12:38 AM
 
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Hilary, I don''t think it's either 1 or 2

1) It isn't quite as optimistic as Mr Taheri states

2) There is a concerted effort to remove Bush from office.

I think that the truth is somewhere between the media reports on both sides.

I don't see that there is any great move to remove Bush. But news has to be exciting, especially here, so either things have to be peachy in Iraq right now, or a disaster. Not much middle ground, which I believe is the truth - like you, if I were there right now I'd be trying to improve things. I think the stresses and hardships are there for the people, but they are different.

Personally, I'd prefer the 'occupation' to the terror of a regime like SH's, even if I disliked the nation that was occupying. At least I'd feel I could sleep relatively well in my bed not dreading the arrival of the secret police. But then, I"m not there, and I'm sure that lots of poeple would disagree with me.

It does seem to me, though, that there is a general determination on the part of those who were antiwar and dislike Bush, to refuse to see that maybe, just maybe, things are better now for the Iraqi people than they were before. I think that's NM's point.

I can dislike Bush and be highly cynical about his motives for the war, but I can still ponder that maybe Iraq is better off now than it was, and that the hardships are different and not as terrible - and that there is now hope of an improvement.

jmo
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#79 of 86 Old 07-26-2003, 01:57 AM
 
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Seems that most Iraqis have no means of expressing themselves whatsoever. At least not yet. I am sure the liklihood is now better because of the invasion BUT, the few Iraqis interviewed by non-american journos have declared that they are still subject to night time raids and searches JUST LIKE WHEN SADDAM WAS AROUND. Now granted these are being conducted by the US soldiers hell bent on rooting out Baath party members and key figures in Saddam's operation but on the ground I'll bet a night time raid is a night time raid. Meet the new boss...same as the old boss. You can't expect them to feel any better about living like this. How do THEY know the US is not there to oppress them like Saddam did?

If I were an Iraqi who lived under the hell of Saddam then I would be highly suspicious of any new regime. US-backed or not. These would have to be bitter, tired and cynical people to have endured so much and continue to endure it. Think about what it would feel like to have soldiers enter your home in the dead of night, frightening your babies and breaking your stuff and perhaps accidently shooting a family member who resisted? How would that feel to you? Would you thank them?

I feel for those poor grunts. I truly do. What a sucky, sucky job to have to do, in those conditions with people so suspicious of you.

Awful. And to have your handiwork displayed all over the world. The dead bad guys. The bombs that fell astray. The inevitable mistakes that come with combat. This truly is Vietnam all over again.

Denny
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#80 of 86 Old 07-26-2003, 04:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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TV images of sons shock many Arabs
Quote:
Televised images of the bodies of Saddam Hussein’s sons shocked many Arabs, who said Friday that it was un-Islamic to exhibit corpses, however much the brothers were loathed.

“Although Odai and Qusai are criminals, displaying their corpses like this is disgusting and repulsive,” Saudi civil servant Saad Brikan, 42, said in Riyadh. “America claims it is civilized but is behaving like a thug.”

Under Islamic law, this is rejected. America wanted to boost the morale of its soldiers, so it resorted to this illegal act, which is denounced by all religions.

“America said during its war on Iraq that displaying pictures of its soldiers who were alive was against the Geneva Convention, so what about pictures showing disfigured bodies?”
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#81 of 86 Old 07-26-2003, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree - I thought this was a little bit of "can't win for losin'" - but it was wonderful to read that the Muslems are struggling with this issue - just as we and all the other cultures of the world seem to be . . .
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#82 of 86 Old 07-26-2003, 11:10 AM
 
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#83 of 86 Old 07-26-2003, 11:16 AM
 
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"If it was so unIslamic, then why did the Iraqi's show pictures of dead disfigured corpses themselves?"

Seems that moral or religious principles go out the window when you want to achieve a political goal. On both sides. What's surprising about that, I wonder.
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#84 of 86 Old 07-26-2003, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by mahdokht
Muslims don't all think the same way, there are over about a billion of us in the world. Islamic law is not as cut and dry as the extremists and sensationalists would like to make it out to be. So some Muslims can feel that it is unislamic while others can argue that it is perfectly ok and not be hypocrites.
So much joins all of humainty regardless of their cultural or religious differences!
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#85 of 86 Old 07-28-2003, 04:51 AM
 
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Dear dentente,

Quote:
Seems that most Iraqis have no means of expressing themselves whatsoever. At least not yet. I am sure the liklihood is now better because of the invasion BUT, the few Iraqis interviewed by non-american journos have declared that they are still subject to night time raids and searches JUST LIKE WHEN SADDAM WAS AROUND.
I beg to differ. Iraqis have the means and have been expressing themselves on the Internet and in blogs for some time now, since before the war (and even before that!.) Most of their thoughts are in Arabic but a few of them speak fluent English and write in both. Others get people who can speak English to translate their blogs for them. Here are a few sites for you to search:

http://dear_raed.blogspot.com/
http://ishtartalking.blogspot.com/
http://geeinbaghdad.blogspot.com/
http://www.realwomenonline.com/artic...30627054459786

There are more but the links are at my home computer and I am at work now. Granted this isn't the majority of the people in Iraq but it gives you an interesting look into their daily lives and thoughts. Most of these are people with access to a computer and Internet so they are more affluent than those who I would like to hear from the most. The poor in those far off villages, the Kurds, the children, those wounded. Anyway, just some interesting daily reading for you if you are interested.

Mom to 4! Welcomed Aila Wren on Friday, February 25th!
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#86 of 86 Old 07-28-2003, 11:31 AM
 
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I am very interested. Thank you. And yes, these people do seem to be better off than most.

Really great links.

Denny
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