I am a feminist! - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 9 Old 09-30-2003, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
kama'aina mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Watching Top Chef, eating Top Ramen
Posts: 21,139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
One of my very favorite sites, Tomato Nation posted a great essay today. Please read it!

Quote:

If you believe in, support, look fondly on, hope for, and/or work towards equality of the sexes, you are a feminist.

Yes, you are.
Go Sars!
kama'aina mama is offline  
#2 of 9 Old 09-30-2003, 05:55 PM
 
burritomama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Aztlan
Posts: 999
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Soy feminista tambien.

Thanks kama' -- just what I needed today.

burritomama is offline  
#3 of 9 Old 09-30-2003, 06:25 PM
Banned
 
Marlena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,673
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I definitely like the sentiment. And I'm a feminist, though I wouldn't define feminism quite as Sars does.

However, I gotta nitpick about one thing. Talk about "equality of the sexes" often assumes, often unconsciously, that men are the standard and women's status must become the same as men's. This can be a problem. Setting aside the issue of gender (so what really consitutes "masculinity" and "femininity," anyway?) and taking U.S. white stereotypes at face value, and assuming we're using the stereotype of the U.S. white male (if there is such a creature) as the paradigm, there are quite a number of aspects of "masculinity" that I, at least, sure don't want to see enshrined as "normal" and to be something to which women should aspire. If you say, in response, "I mean LEGAL equality, not that women should become like (the mythical stereotypical US white) men," then you have to contend with the fact that our legal system (and the social system built up around it - take employment laws, as one significant example) has enshrined many of the (IMO) negative, we-really-don't-want-to-emulate-and-elevate-this kinda values within it. Do we really want this? Or are we looking for something more subtle, something requiring more transformation, perhaps?
Marlena is offline  
#4 of 9 Old 10-02-2003, 10:20 AM
 
hotmamacita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,210
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Bravo Marlena!!!!



I think you are my long lost sister. I have been saying something very similar since my teens. I agree wholeheartedly and I say, let's bring on transformation!!!!

Proud to be feminine...which makes me a feminist!!!!

Peace,
hotmamacita is offline  
#5 of 9 Old 10-02-2003, 10:34 AM
 
mamaduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Marlena
I definitely like the sentiment. And I'm a feminist, though I wouldn't define feminism quite as Sars does.

However, I gotta nitpick about one thing. Talk about "equality of the sexes" often assumes, often unconsciously, that men are the standard and women's status must become the same as men's. This can be a problem. Setting aside the issue of gender (so what really consitutes "masculinity" and "femininity," anyway?) and taking U.S. white stereotypes at face value, and assuming we're using the stereotype of the U.S. white male (if there is such a creature) as the paradigm, there are quite a number of aspects of "masculinity" that I, at least, sure don't want to see enshrined as "normal" and to be something to which women should aspire. If you say, in response, "I mean LEGAL equality, not that women should become like (the mythical stereotypical US white) men," then you have to contend with the fact that our legal system (and the social system built up around it - take employment laws, as one significant example) has enshrined many of the (IMO) negative, we-really-don't-want-to-emulate-and-elevate-this kinda values within it. Do we really want this? Or are we looking for something more subtle, something requiring more transformation, perhaps?
This a really crucial point, I think. If we want true equality, then we want women to play an equal role in define values and setting the standards by which "the good" and the desirable are determined. We don't just want "what men have." We want access to the process of defining why and how they got it. We want to start from scratch, basically, and transform society so that it becomes a more accurate reflection of the goals, values, and hearts of both men AND women. If we could attain this level of equality, then the way the world is run will change significantly.

Feminist vision and all that.
mamaduck is offline  
#6 of 9 Old 10-02-2003, 01:41 PM
Banned
 
Marlena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,673
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by mamaduck
This a really crucial point, I think. If we want true equality, then we want women to play an equal role in define values and setting the standards by which "the good" and the desirable are determined. We don't just want "what men have." We want access to the process of defining why and how they got it. We want to start from scratch, basically, and transform society so that it becomes a more accurate reflection of the goals, values, and hearts of both men AND women. If we could attain this level of equality, then the way the world is run will change significantly.

Feminist vision and all that.
Marlena is offline  
#7 of 9 Old 10-03-2003, 01:04 AM
 
SpiralWoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: middle of the mid-south
Posts: 2,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ramblings here, please forgive incoherency & bad spelling in advance:

I bought a bumper sticker with this on it, so I hope it's ok to quote here:
"Feminism is the radical notion that women are people."
- Chris Kramarae & Paula Treichler

I love the point you all are making about the "standard" person being male & women equaling to that. I really think the biological & social reality is the oposite: Females are the basic form & males are the variant. I think this is why patriarchal society is so dependent on force & violence to maintain itself.

Equality. A nice way of saying nobody's better than the other. One sex isn't better than the other. Not that we are the same.

Anyway, I think it is the realm of mothering & birth that feminism as a truly pro-woman movement happens. Remember when epidurals & bottle feeding were supposed to free women from the bonds of... well from being a woman?

Claiming power, not being co-opted, speaking truth about the backwards masogynistic culture we live in: this is feminism as I try to live it.
SpiralWoman is offline  
#8 of 9 Old 10-03-2003, 01:10 AM
Banned
 
somemama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,645
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I used to call myself a feminist. Now I call myself a humanist. (Which I think more fully encompasses true equality of the sexes.)

Oh..........and all you "feminists" out there who believe in equality of the sexes....that means standing up for the genital integrity of both girls AND boys. Talk the talk; walk the walk.
somemama is offline  
#9 of 9 Old 10-03-2003, 01:30 AM
 
Arduinna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 32,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
WOO HOO Marlena and Mamaduck!!

(and I agree that means supporting genital integrity for both sexes)
Arduinna is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off