Israeli warplanes strike far within Syria - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 41 Old 10-09-2003, 11:33 AM
 
3boys4us's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: rhode island
Posts: 1,554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The most important point here is that people are being killed everyday - not just when the corporate media sensationlizes the suicide bombings. Or to put for you mildly - a Palestinain is killed everyday (but perhaps they don't count to us Americans).

Here is an excellent link about how much Israel costs the US:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/usaid.html

I have hard time with that but I assume that most conservatives feel it's okay to keep supporting what has become a quagmire for both Israelis and the US.
3boys4us is offline  
#32 of 41 Old 10-09-2003, 02:58 PM
 
madrone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: . . .
Posts: 1,911
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by DebraBaker
Meddling outsiders (like Syria and Iran) need to butt out.
Many in the world would include the US in that statement.

: madrone - : SAHM to 12 y.o. DS, : 9 y.o. DD, and : 4 y.o. DS
madrone is offline  
#33 of 41 Old 10-09-2003, 03:53 PM
 
captain optimism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Good Ship Lollipop
Posts: 7,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by 3boys4us
The most important point here is that people are being killed everyday - not just when the corporate media sensationlizes the suicide bombings. Or to put for you mildly - a Palestinain is killed everyday (but perhaps they don't count to us Americans).

Here is an excellent link about how much Israel costs the US:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/usaid.html

I have hard time with that but I assume that most conservatives feel it's okay to keep supporting what has become a quagmire for both Israelis and the US.
I hardly think you can "sensationalize" a suicide bombing--it's an inherently horrifying act. Why else would people do it? That's why they call it "terrorism"--it's not that acts of terror have to kill or injure a large number of people, it's just that it has to be something that most people would find frightening or repugnant, like blowing yourself up and taking civilians and children with you. It's got to be visible and sensational, because that's the point.

I find the word "sensationalize" upsetting here because you make it sound like you are only horrified by the deaths on one side, which to me is one of the biggest problems with talking about the whole question. There just aren't enough people who take casualties seriously no matter what their nationality. The Left seems to only take the Palestinian casualties seriously, the Right, only the Israeli casualties.

The institutionalized violence of the occupation isn't only invisible to people in the US, it's also invisible to the occupiers. It's paradoxically legal. It's retaliatory. We all should see it for what it is: state violence. But I think in a lot of ways, the tactic of terror is responsible for making the daily harrassment and disenfranchisement invisible.

In a lot of ways, the Palestinian terrorists bolster repressive policies of the Israeli government--well, you could say the same thing about how terror has bolstered the current US gov't. If one side would stop, the other side couldn't keep going. You know? Support for Sharon's policies grows whenever there is a suicide bombing or other act of terror, support for Arafat on the Palestinian side was dwindling until Israel began this absurd campaign against him.

Anyway, all of that is to say, don't say "sensationalized" about media coverage of the suicide bombings.

Divorced mom of one awesome boy born 2-3-2003.
captain optimism is offline  
#34 of 41 Old 10-09-2003, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
Banned
 
Marlena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,673
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by captain optimism
In a lot of ways, the Palestinian terrorists bolster repressive policies of the Israeli government--well, you could say the same thing about how terror has bolstered the current US gov't. If one side would stop, the other side couldn't keep going. You know? Support for Sharon's policies grows whenever there is a suicide bombing or other act of terror, support for Arafat on the Palestinian side was dwindling until Israel began this absurd campaign against him.
YES YES YES!!! Thank you for pointing all this out so succinctly!!
Marlena is offline  
#35 of 41 Old 10-09-2003, 06:20 PM
 
3boys4us's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: rhode island
Posts: 1,554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I find the word "sensationalize" upsetting here because you make it sound like you are only horrified by the deaths on one side, which to me is one of the biggest problems with talking about the whole question.
co- I don't agree - look at our corporate media - where are the Palestinian deaths? IMO the media plays the suicide bombings as if they came from nowhere - as if the bomber had no past except for his/her intent to kill Isrealis. That's wrong. In our local paper (and many other papers) we get very little about how and why the bomber chose this route. And why not?

OTH no side is right. I have often wondered where the Palestinian Gandhi/MLK is.
3boys4us is offline  
#36 of 41 Old 10-09-2003, 08:18 PM
 
Marg of Arabia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Posts: 3,846
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think you were misunderstood, 3boys4us.....I didn't take your post to mean that. I thought you were referring to the one-sided coverage. Now I can see how it was misunderstood...But, I guess I know you better from our long history here
Marg of Arabia is offline  
#37 of 41 Old 10-09-2003, 11:32 PM
 
captain optimism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Good Ship Lollipop
Posts: 7,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
I think a better way to express it would be to call Palestinian deaths under-reported. Though to me, it seems easier, in the US press, to learn about the motivations of individual suicide bombers than about the daily lives of most Palestinians. (Or for that matter, what public opinion is in Israel.) So perhaps it is better to say that it is Palestinian lives that are under-reported.

I had more to say here but I edited myself. It feels too off topic. What the Palestinians are or aren't doing is, unfortunately, not at all germane to Sharon's decision to bomb in Syria. Or at least, that's what his opposition is arguing in Ha'aretz today.

Divorced mom of one awesome boy born 2-3-2003.
captain optimism is offline  
#38 of 41 Old 10-10-2003, 09:04 AM
Banned
 
DebraBaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 5,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"OTH no side is right. I have often wondered where the Palestinian Gandhi/MLK is"

IMHO, he hasn't been permitted to emerge because there are forces who gain power and control through the continued existance of Palestinians as refugees *and* the violence.

When (and I hope there is a when and not an if) this happens I believe people could be given a chance to travel down a path toward peaceful co-existance.

I know I'm in the minority in this forum but understand I hold no hate toward the Palestinian side I think they are just as much victim as Israeli civilians.

Debra Baker
DebraBaker is offline  
#39 of 41 Old 10-10-2003, 10:46 AM
 
3boys4us's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: rhode island
Posts: 1,554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
But, I guess I know you better from our long history here
aaawww - thanks Marg

Quote:
I think a better way to express it would be to call Palestinian deaths under-reported. Though to me, it seems easier, in the US press, to learn about the motivations of individual suicide bombers than about the daily lives of most Palestinians. (Or for that matter, what public opinion is in Israel.) So perhaps it is better to say that it is Palestinian lives that are under-reported.
This will help clarify what I mean -

Quote:
During this six-week period of "relative quiet," however, some 17 Palestinians were killed and at least 59 injured by Israeli occupation soldiers and settlers, according to the Palestine Red Crescent Society. The dead included Mahmoud Kabaha, a four-year-old boy, who was sitting in the back seat of a jeep with his family at a checkpoint when an Israeli soldier shot him dead-- in a spray of bullets that the army simply called an "accidental burst of gunfire" (Associated Press, 7/25/03). Virtually none of the major U.S. news reports on the August 12 bombings alluded to the Palestinian death toll in this period, leaving out a key piece of the story: For Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, the violence had never ceased; while the Israeli attacks had decreased, there had never been anything like an Israeli cease-fire.
http://www.fair.org/press-releases/relative-calm.html

I disagree about the US press and its portrayal about Palestinians - look at the UK press - you get a much more in depth report about both victims and perpetrators. Perhaps the US press will state a reason for the killing but not much more than that.

I did like this from the Haaretz article:

Quote:
During his entire term, Sharon, with the backing of the U.S. administration, has been preoccupied with attempts to evade the implementation of his declared policy. Instead
of tending to the root of the problem of Israeli existence - Palestinian terror - by ending the Israeli occupation, creating
effective channels for rapprochement with the Palestinian leadership, or at least completing the construction of the separation fence, Sharon is now turning to extreme and irresponsible steps.
It's amazing that everyone can see except the US and the Israeli conservatives.

Quote:
When (and I hope there is a when and not an if) this happens I believe people could be given a chance to travel down a path toward peaceful co-existance.
Eventually all occupations like this IMO break down - and the occupied become more savvy and more dangerous.
3boys4us is offline  
#40 of 41 Old 10-10-2003, 10:54 AM
 
3boys4us's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: rhode island
Posts: 1,554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here's another article:

Quote:
But now, most of the 400,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank want to stay in the luxurious communities that hefty government subsidies have provided. Politically, it would now be almost impossible for any Israeli government to suggest that they move back to Israel - or to leave them where they are under a Palestinian ruler. But if they stay where they are, and under Israeli sovereignty, then the land left for the Palestinians can never provide the basis for a viable Palestinian state. As with the "Bantustans" created by the old apartheid regime in South Africa, the Palestinian-ruled area would be resource-starved and totally under the control of the stronger power. No recipe there for long-term stability - for white South Africans, or for Israelis.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1009/p09s02-coop.html

I guess my whoe point is that the settlements must be adressed by the US and Israel and the Palestinians - until then....
3boys4us is offline  
#41 of 41 Old 10-10-2003, 11:14 AM
 
captain optimism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Good Ship Lollipop
Posts: 7,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
My dh pointed out to me that perhaps my view of what is available in the press about Palestinians is shaped by how we get our news. Fair enough. My dh also bombards me periodically with news about what is happening in the Territories.

When Sharon was elected, I decided that I wasn't going to keep track of the news from Israel. I understood him to be responsible for many of Israel's worst decisions, as a general and as a cabinet minister. I had deep hopes for peace in my generation, and as soon as he was elected, I knew those hopes were shattered. But my dh has kind of forced me to listen. So perhaps my views of what the media has to offer are distorted by that.

Divorced mom of one awesome boy born 2-3-2003.
captain optimism is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off