What do you think about America???? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 10-09-2003, 09:59 AM
 
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What do you think of our country?? Are you proud to be an American?? Do you feel safer?? Are you happy about the economy?? Do you care about the way the world views America??
I think it's politicians generally stink.

Am I proud to be an american? Definitely not. I am also not patrtiotic and don't feel any obligation to be supportive or proud of a country I had no choice in being born into.

Do i feel Safer than say people must feel living in Iraq? Definitely, and for that I admit I feel grateful.

I am not concerned about the way the world views America.

I too would love to immigrate to another country and Dh and I seriously considered Australia(serious enough to have the initial visa paperwork filled out and our documents close at hand), but unfortunately, it is too expensive for us to move and most companies won't hire you without a Visa, and it's hard to get a visa without employment

Because of our political, religion, and parenting views, I would love to get the heck out of this country.

BTW, the phrase "if you don't like it then leave" statement is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I say, if employment were better and pay was better we would LEAVE. But then, if those things were better, we may not leave
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Old 10-09-2003, 10:41 AM
 
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Ah, what a great thread.

Hilary your post was like a tall fresh glass of VB on a hot day thanks



Im Australian...to be honest, after what John ho"WAR"d did,his head so far up alcoholic Bushells butt, Im pretty disgusted with our countries ball=less antics too but thats another thread

America has always had a reputation from "out here"...its people always been regarded as somewhat dramatic and loud and plastic...and having lived there, I met alot of them :LOL I also met extraordinary people .
I could go on about the things I saw there that were so hard to understand and adjust to culturally...but youre not asking that...

Its a diseased country for sure...and its very insular. Most people I met never have left the US borders. I never felt safe there, and was terrified to raise our son there (Have lived there for 4 years until 9 months ago)

Having said all that, there are extraordinary resources there and I really enjoyed the extraverted and confident attitudes after living in conservative and somewhat behind the times Aussie attitudes.
Its certainly progressive in many ways.
It is a country of dichotomy for sure.

If T3 goes for president next I think my freakin head is going to spin.

But you know, Australia has a very unrealistic reputation too.


Just some waffling....
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Old 10-09-2003, 10:59 AM
 
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In defense of Americans who have not left the states:

It's expensive to travel abroad. Even if a travel package costs 600 dollars, I'd think most Americans would find that too expensive when they could spend that on something that is needed.

I've been to Canada and Mexico, and only because we were able to drive. Even though I would love to visit Australia, Spain, Germany, etc we could not afford to do so.

As far as Arnold running for president, that can't happen- YEAY!!!!

If it did, I'd almost start believing in Revelation. Ya know, the European power?
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Old 10-09-2003, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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As far as Arnold running for president, that can't happen- YEAY!!!!
I wouldn't feel too comfortable if I were you..........


Quote:
WASHINGTON -- Sen. Orrin Hatch wants to terminate the constitutional prohibition against foreign-born citizens such as Arnold Schwarzenegger and others from becoming president. "This restriction has become an anachronism that is decidedly un-American," Hatch, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and one-time presidential candidate, said when he introduced the change last week.
But retired University of Alabama history professor Forrest McDonald said the prohibition made sense when it was included in the Constitution "and I'm not sure the reasoning is entirely outdated."

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Jul/07162...on_w/75857.asp
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Old 10-09-2003, 12:19 PM
 
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Regarding how I feel about America...well, America is a beautiful land from "sea to shining sea". I have seen some of it. The land of America just is. It was here before us, and will be here after us. So America is itself with or without us, but definitely in spite of us. Cities crumble over centuries, human creation is temporary.

Our human history, however, is one of hubris, as my son puts it. I would love to see some humility. I just don't think those in power right now are capable of that, which is a really big problem for the whole world.

I think that our history is relatively short compared to the ancient history that was here already among the hundreds of native nations and that of "Old" Europe, which explains some things. Our way is like that of a young and cocky adolescent full of bravado...the rest of the world patiently awaits our culture's maturation. I daresay that when that maturation is complete there will be much of a destructive, manipulative, negative nature commited in immaturity that will require humble apology and restitution.

While we currently tout our (ever-eroding, if you choose to see) freedoms, it is only illusory really. We can't really handle the responsibility of freedom yet as the immature culture we are, but it IS a noble and worthy intent for the future. Now if only we could, in hindsight, take a look at what we could learn from those we conquered in history and try to integrate those lessons, qualities and wisdoms in humility.

THEN we may begin to know the quality and truth of freedom.

I love America. It is beautiful, graceful, exciting, calm, and more. The land can support the culture we can become, but will not support the culture we are...if we can learn to humbly pursue appropriate technology that puts sustainability first, we can once more lead as an example, be a true friend, and help those needing a hand, value harmony with the rest of the world. Until then...we are just spinning wheels, and all talk.

That's what I think of America. I love it. I want to be part of what it can grow up to be.

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Old 10-09-2003, 12:26 PM
 
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Marg,

I just have a minute here & I wanted to answer a part of your OP (I didn't have time to get through reading all of pg 2 of posts but...)

Do you feel safer? Was one of your questions.

I can answer a resounding no. It boggles my mind that anyone does. To me it is clear that increasing the hatred of others for you does not increase your secure standing -- not on the playground, not on the world stage.

In 1993 my uncle was shot & killed while traveling for business in Egypt. He worked for a company building an oil pipeline. A stranger walked in to a restaurant and shot at him & his co-workers.

I feel that the policies of the past 10 years (but especially the past 2 years of the 'war or terror') have made such incidences far more likely. Instead of working to build bridges in these 10 years, I believe we have alienated & isolated our country to such an extent that we will soon have few allies to speak of.

Yes we have a powerful military arsenal, but there is no question in my mind we are less 'safe'.

I am not completely depressed as I believe people could get together to imagine & create a nonviolent world, and that this is already happening all over the place.
I sometimes wonder if we are witnessing the last gasp of the old guard trying to hold onto its grasp of power, money, and dominance. I think the world has changed too much for that to be the way of the future. Question is whether the planet will be allowed to survive long enough to see anything different.

[I'm not a pessimist by nature, btw. I grew up in a conservative household, & it's been very hard for me to come to these views. Interestingly enough, my Dad who taught me his Reagan-political views growing up, has also now done a 180-degree turn in his views. ]

Okay that's far more than I usually post in Activism for fear of my strong views blinding my common sense in moderation, lol. Hope I didn't say anything hurtful without meaning to.
Thanks for the conversation, Marg!

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Old 10-09-2003, 01:32 PM
 
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Old 10-09-2003, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay that's far more than I usually post in Activism for fear of my strong views blinding my common sense in moderation, lol. Hope I didn't say anything hurtful without meaning to.

I wish you would post more often!! You are wonderful!!

I am very sorry to hear about your uncle.........

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Old 10-09-2003, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Old 10-09-2003, 03:43 PM
 
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Candiland , why the sad face?
I wish I felt safe enough to "talk" about this issue, but I do not.

Quote:
I get up unafraid in the mornings and I am raising my kids darn well as I please. You can't?
No, I can't. My idea of what I want and need are not the same as our government's; they are not Christian or American at all. My children would be taken away if I raised them the way I wanted to. I cannot go into anymore detail than that.
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Old 10-10-2003, 01:20 AM
 
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Our way is like that of a young and cocky adolescent full of bravado...the rest of the world patiently awaits our culture's maturation. I daresay that when that maturation is complete there will be much of a destructive, manipulative, negative nature commited in immaturity that will require humble apology and restitution.

Joyce I applaud you and your post.

I cannot see the bravado and hubris on its knees owning its shadow though...I would love to see this in my lifetime

I enjoyed your post very much
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Old 10-10-2003, 05:23 AM
 
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I wrote something on behalf of my DH on the wrong thread. :

Here it is:
BTW - Dh asked me to write, "The US is a great place if you're rich!"
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Old 10-10-2003, 12:14 PM
 
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I can't add much more to what has already been said so well, by many...

I just wanted to add my Italian perspective about people hating America before Bush and during the Clinton years. Not at all, not in Italy! Italians thought Clinton was great, they smiled at his indiscretions, but we don't care much about politicians' personal lives, it's more what they get accomplished. Now, they LAUGH at BUsh, at his blatant ignorance and at his lack of diplomacy skills, at his warmongering and the fact that he wasn't even elected...in the self-proclaimed 'leader of the free world' :

My husband is American, he loves his country and we do have a great life here (but, we have money) but he hopes one day we can go to Italy to raise our kids and go to school.

We will miss all the space here but we'll have every single 'freedom' Americans have here PLUS many more! No violence in public schools, great education and I can't wait to get 5 weeks a year paid vacation and a 2 year maternity leave to be with my kids. Now, THAT's freedom! (or some call it the 'evils of socialism'... BTW, in Europe, most countries are a mix of socialism and capitalism, something the avg. AMerican is not aware of- it's not an all or nothing kinda thing)

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Old 10-10-2003, 02:59 PM
 
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Originally posted by Ilaria
Now, they LAUGH at BUsh, at his blatant ignorance and at his lack of diplomacy skills,
They must be having a ball with Berlusconi!!
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Old 10-10-2003, 08:10 PM
 
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A blast is right! You should hear all the jokes about when they supposedly talked on the phone: the battle of the wits! :LOL

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Old 10-11-2003, 09:37 PM
 
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Three reasons not to change the U.S. Constitution:

1. Napoleon, a Corsican who became head of France;

2. Stalin, a Georgian who became head of the USSR;

3. Hitler, an Austrian who became head of Germany.

Arnie is Austrian. If he wants to head a country, he should go back to Austria; they deserve him.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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Old 10-11-2003, 11:16 PM
 
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Just had to add this: the cover of our local newsweekly this week: big headshot of Arnold looking blearily trimumphant and the headline: "California, show me your t*ts!"

Straight talking man indeed.

Of course, the newsweekly spelled it out.

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Old 10-13-2003, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Old 10-13-2003, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I predict that Arnold will fail as a politician. But, Americans don't really care that much. He will still have the peoples support. Why? because they care more about "the image". This is the sad state of affairs in this country I am living in
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Old 10-13-2003, 09:22 PM
 
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Ah no worries Marg, come on over for a cuppa and we can discuss the insanity of T3 together. Its spring here at last and the rosella's are singing outside my window. Ill make you a home made aussie sausage roll and we can drink dandelion tea

(Did you know the postmen/women actually do their rounds by motorcycle here , theres some tricia for you)

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Old 10-13-2003, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I would love to join you! Thanks for the invite.

I had a very close friend in Saudi from Northern Ireland who recently moved to the gold coast. If only we had the money to get us over to Oz!!! I wish!!!
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Old 10-14-2003, 04:26 AM
 
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"Our way is like that of a young and cocky adolescent full of bravado...the rest of the world patiently awaits our culture's maturation. I daresay that when that maturation is complete there will be much of a destructive, manipulative, negative nature commited in immaturity that will require humble apology and restitution."

How true.

NM I'm always confused by the statements, popular by talk show hosts in this country, about the ills of Europe due to socialism. :

Wasn't your last president a liberal? Wasn't Thatcher a raving conservative?

This seems to just be a popular hogwash by the conservative press who want to sing the USA's praises whilst denegrating the rest of the world. I hear every social ill and catastrophe in Europe blamed on socialism. It is such a nonsense, and totally inaccurate, but sadly believed by the majority of Americans.
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Old 10-14-2003, 10:34 AM
 
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popular hogwash by the conservative press who want to sing the USA's praises whilst denegrating the rest of the world. I hear every social ill and catastrophe in Europe blamed on socialism. It is such a nonsense, and totally inaccurate, but sadly believed by the majority of Americans.
ITA! Once again, I think it's due to ignorance...most Americans only have a vague idea of what Communism and Socialism are and how they work in modern Europe. To them it's either Socialist or Capitalist, all or nothing, while the 2 can coexist and work fairly well...
Another thing that boggles my mind is when Americans go on about being able to start and own a business, as if it is some sort of characteristic to the USA!?: My dad opened and has owned his own business for 25 years now, in Italy!

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Old 10-14-2003, 03:30 PM
 
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Originally posted by Hilary


the rest of the world has been waiting for the USA to grow up, since the Treaty of Versailles according to my Dad
ITA, Hilary. Your Dad sounds great.

Problem is, does the world have long enough to wait for this maturation? How much havoc on the earth, its resources, native peoples, animal species, human health, other cultural traditions, in the meantime? Sigh.

Ilaria I know just what you mean about that misperception, too. Very frustrating. :

BTW, I have my own long list of things I love about this country, its people, even some founding values, but *too much* being done 'in our name' contradicts all this goodness, sadly.

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Old 10-14-2003, 08:47 PM
 
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What do you think about America????

Without editing myself & off the top of my head-I don't think much of America, and have felt this way for as long as I can remember. I've lived in many different regions around the country and have never felt I belonged here. The only time I truly felt at home was living in NYC, because of the diversity of cultures.

From high school on I was around people from all different countries-European, South American, Middle Eastern, etc. I was curious about their countries, their cultures and way of life. I remember being amazed that (most of) the US students didn't seem to be particularly curious about anything beyond their own experience. I still encounter people like that 20 years later-I wonder how much things have changed in our more "global" existence.

That's what I don't like about America-its myopic view of the world.

I think America needs to stop talking and listen more--our way of life is not THE way of life and it's foolish and dangerous to keep these outdated povs. When out of the country, I'm proud when people don't take me for being an American. That's a pretty sad statement.

I just read what someone above said about our culture being immature--I also feel this in an adverse way. I don't sense any hugely sacred or historic creative energy here that will even be remotely close to that in other countries in a few hundred years, when our culture "matures."
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Old 10-15-2003, 12:29 AM
 
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I'm not so sure that anyone can say that the world looked as bad at us now, as three years ago. The Human Rights Convention/Committee of the UN actually booted out the U.S. after Bush became president because of his tactics, his demanding nature, and his egotism. To my knowledge, the U.N. has never separated/kicked out the U.S in regards to anything until this. That is HUGE.
I'm proud to be an American, but I'm also ashamed to be an American right now. Our voices weren't heard this last election, it was stolen. And now with the recall in California, it seems that there is no point in voting, because if the rich don't like the person elected, they'll just pool out money, and push for a recall. It isn't just. If the people vote, that should be the end of it.
And, Bush is asking for billions of dollars for Iraq and a teeny tiny bit of that for Afghanistan, when he's absolutely refused to help our state governments that are in serious debt and failing.
And what of Afghanistan and Iraq? He finally admitted that Iraq (ie Saddam Hussein) had nothing to do with 9/11, he has yet to come forward and finally admit that they had no ties to Al Qaeda even though the CIA and many other agencies have been saying this all along.
And Afghanistan? On the news this evening Osama and his son Saad were seen together in Sudan, and he is responsible for 9/11.... we took everything we had and moved our attention to Iraq, a country that was under control and is now massacring each other, our own service members, looting and rampantly raping the women and children that are in sight. Women in Iraq have made statements saying they felt safer under Saddam's rule than they do now. And, if things are to get better, the U.S. can never leave. Which means more of our loved ones dying over there to try to regain some sense of control.
And what of that? Promised to several Iraqi's that were brought in to help build a government are being denied the very right to make any decision. They're left out of the loop and so feel helpless on helping their own people with governing decisions.
Meanwhile, Afghanistan has been left a mess, rebuilding is little and people are starving and dying every day. And, according to the news, Al Qaeda has moved right back in and will probably regain control.
Someday, I hope that Americans wake up and realize that they have to make decisions for themselves with valid information, and not just believe everything that is told to them by government officials. And in that, our news has to get better. I've had to read news from other countries to get more information as to what is going on around the world.
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Old 10-15-2003, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And now with the recall in California, it seems that there is no point in voting, because if the rich don't like the person elected, they'll just pool out money, and push for a recall.

Amen! Rev. Kimberly!!!!!!!!! I feel about as hopeless as you do!!

What is going on in this country??

Why can't we grow up??

Why are we so controlled by the media??

I found myself humming a jingle I heard on the radio all day yesterday. It seemed to have buried itself in my brain like a memory chip. It was a commercial for a car dealership. These brainwashing techniques seem to work in advertising.


I sometimes imagine a secret department in our government that is constantly working on brainwashing the American public into believing any lie told to them. This dept. advises Bush on his speech giving. Teaching him the techniques we are unaware of. Teaching Bush and Co. how to plant lies in American people's heads. You know, where they just repeat a lie at least 20 times per day until the American public is brainwashed much the same way that I have been brainwashed by that damned car commercial!!!

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Old 09-06-2004, 10:01 PM
 
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You're not imagining things Marg. It really is true. As Noam Chomsky has documented so eloquently and thoroughly in his many books , declassified State Dept. papers, and quotes from influential planners and advisors like George MacKennan reveal they are only too aware that to get the population on their side for invasions, imperialistic adventures, economic measures that benefit the rich to the detriment of everyone else, they need to shape their thinking, create "necessary illusions" etc.

The weasel words are thought up by clever PR trained consultants, and other figures from the intellectual classes who are part of the invisible power structure behind "the president". Weasel words like..."anti-American", "collateral damage", "plausible denial" come to mind.

There's no special dept. though. They don't need one for that. Why when there is a revolving door between Wall Street and the White House. The President doesn't need to select his cabinet of advisors and policy-makers from elected representatives...he and his cronies only have to cherry-pick from the Corporate world which they come from.

I think the right word for the US governmental regime would be plutocracy.....rule by the rich and powerful.


As a non-American, I can say that yes, there is a certain derision in my country for US actions by intelligent educated people, but also a lot of misplaced respect and admiration.

Some people will always look up to and worship power.

But I would like to say this. The US govt. is not the American people. Many who hate US imperialism, realise there are loads of good American people , who may oppose US imperialism, may be ignorant etc.

As Chomsky points out no State Govt. is a moral agent. They act in the interests of internal elites. The New Zealand Govt. if we had the military arsenal of the US, and pop. would be just as bad, imo.

Many Americans seem to really care about the wrongs that US imperialism gets up to. I respect that.
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Old 10-11-2004, 04:37 PM
 
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I have never been ashamed of being an American. I think it is facinating how people who live in America can degrade her and hate her. They are protected by the first Amendment. I dare any of you to go to China and speak out against them or any number of countries. I did not see any protestors sitting in the streets of Bagdad for Saddam to comply with the U.N. resolutions or the inspectors. Why? Because they would be tortured and killed. In America we have the right to peacefully assemble.

America is great. America has been looked down upon for ages so get over it. You can never please everyone. We do a lot of great things. We are a great nation. Look around the world and who has a major influence? France? Germany? Russia? Iraq? Israel? Nope. The one and almost only USA. Hmmm, I seem to remember Levis and rock music were huge black market items in the USSR. Not one shot was fired to bring down the USSR - freedom and capitalism did and there self destructive government as well. People have yearned for our freedom and our lifestyle for a long time. Why have so many immigrants come here and continue to come here? Because America is so evil and awful? Who ever belives this is factually ignorant. Mexicans who walk down the middle of I-5 in California risk there lives (if you ever drove on I-5 you would understand) to come here. Why? Because they like dodging automobiles going 75mph? Call me crazy, but I do not think they want to play chicken with a car going that fast especially since they might have their children with them. Must be something more than that... I wonder what it is??? Freedom. The American dream - perhaps not for themselves but for their children.

We are not a perfect nation. We have flaws. If anyone hates living here so much, America does not have any laws stopping you to leave. I would not want you to leave. Why? If you are capable of constructive critism, your opposition of the way we operate in America needs to be heard (it is also protected). It is how we grow as a nation. You can complain all you want, but do not forget that there are many other people who would die trying to get here to enjoy that right. You think we have it bad here?

I love America and would die for her and her freedoms and her way of living. I want my children to grow up here and nowhere else. I will instill in them how great this nation is despite her having flaws and making mistakes along the way. I want them to travel the world to see how blessed they are to be an American. If my 2 year old son was 18 right now and decided to pass on college and join the military to fight in Iraq or Afghanistan, I would beam with pride. If he were to die fighting, I would be thankful for his sacrifice to keep his countrymen and women free.
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Old 10-14-2004, 07:19 PM
 
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what fun to see this thread revived.

did reese every say what country she was referring to or from what experience she was drawing from that indicated the U.S. was unpopular during the Clinton years?

i was really surprised that she thought so. from my personal experience, the Clintons were VERY popular - so much so that everyone seemed to be naming their babies either Bill, Will, William or Hilary. We thought it was quite amusing and were glad that we were from a country so well respected!

unfortunately, that seems to have changed during the bush administration.

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