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-   -   What do you think about America???? (http://www.mothering.com/forum/128-activism-archives/91104-what-do-you-think-about-america.html)

Marg of Arabia 10-08-2003 01:16 PM

I believe America has lost her standing in the world!!! We have exposed ourselves for what we truly are!! A war mongering, money worshipping, imperialistic country, complete with corrupt political election tampering and an un-elected president who lies everytime his mouth opens! He should have been impeached long ago! I do not understand how he gets away with it?? I do not understand why my fellow Americans can not see what he has done to our country!


I believe the majority of the world has lost total respect for us. This is an issue that most Americans foolishly think will not affect them! They are wrong. We have lost our status in the world. We will try to hold on to our control through money but eventually we are going to fall! I truly believe too much damage has already been done. I am not sure if our next president will be able to clean up the mess that this administration has left us with.

What do you think of our country?? Are you proud to be an American?? Do you feel safer?? Are you happy about the economy?? Do you care about the way the world views America??

Arduinna 10-08-2003 01:35 PM

ITA! not sure what else there is to say about it. I'm personally embarrased to be American.

guestmama9924 10-08-2003 01:37 PM

Marg I have such mixed feelings...at times I am so thankful for my country, and other times so disgusted.

I just got back from a nice long trip to the UK and am sorry to say that in crowds, I was careful to speak softly so my southern-American accent would not be heard. I was careful to shield the front of my passport in the airports. I was fully prepared to pretend to be from Cuba or South America or the Islands that I neighbor....living down in the Keys, I can fake a variety of Caribbean accents!

I was humilated as I walked around Central London and witnessed the Anti-American demonstrations with the words "baby killers" and an american flag across the words.

While eating in a posh authentic Greek restaurant, I, and the other 4 Americans I met up with spoke softly and sat in the back of the restaurant. A few tables away, there was another group of Americans acting,well, American. Loud, demanding, and basically just a spectacle. Yes, they were just a small group of tacky Americans, but to me, and my group , we thought " this is what people think about us!"

I will say though, that I gained a new respect for the enivornmental efforts in this country of ours! Yes, we have huge landfills, and water treatment facilities and know how wasteful we are thought to be. But I have to tell you, that if they gathered up all the garbage on the streets of London and actually put it in one place, it would rival anything we do over here! I had collected all my recycles in a seperate trash can and asked the apartment manager for the recylce bin and was laughed at. " Just throw it on the street with the rest of the trash". There was no recycle container within walking distance. I was going to have to board a bus with my trash and go find one.

So Marg, no, I am not proud to represent myself as an American while abroad, but I am hopeful that when I travel I can try to offer a different perspective to our foreign neighbors.


guestmama9906 10-08-2003 01:47 PM

Yes, yes I agree with what you're saying. The frustrating part is that when you try to make a difference, (voting, writing/calling legislators, donating money to worthwhile causes, attending anti-war rallies, supporting candidates who will make a positive change, passing out flyers, being a member of the Green phone bank, etc. etc.) you get lumped in with the rest of the citizens who don't care, who only turn out to vote b/c the (hopefully one) Term-inator is running, by the rest of the world. I think people forget that there are those of us here who are NOT happy with the way things are, who are attempting to make a difference by letting our "leaders" hear our voices and trying to make our money talk in a different way. I know things suck, I know we are appalling everyone else on the planet, but if we all just packed it in and left, who would be there to be the voice of reason in America?

Then again, maybe it's not such a bad idea to all pack up and just let 'er self-destruct. It would be an interesting scene...

reeseccup 10-08-2003 02:36 PM

Just to clearify something for you. American has been looked down upon for a lot longer than 3 years, so don't blame the present administration for that. Most of the world see us as what our movies and tv shows show us as well as our politics and the public media exagerated bickering. A lot of "outsiders" are surprised when they actually meet and listen to a "real" American and realize we are not what is protrayed on the screen or are what their leaders say we are like. It is not 1 mans doing that has made us look bad, nor can 1 man share that burden and neither does 1 politcal party. The majority of the world didn't have any respect for us BEFORE the present administration, and really, it'll take a whole heck of a lot more work than having a change of administration/parties to get any respect. I suppose you didn't realize we Americans were a laughing stock and a brunt of shameful jokes and abuse over seas in the 8 years of the Clinton administration . Just like we are with Bush now. No matter what we Americans do, to the people that don't understand, know, or care to even learn us in a factual light we'll be nothing but a joke or as you so kindly point out as "war mongering, money worshipping, imperialistic country, complete with corrupt political election tampering and an un-elected president who lies everytime his mouth opens".

We are looked upon as an immoral, irresposable, childish nation; with all the bickering we do it's not surprising.

With all that said and to answer your questions:

YES I'm AM very proud to be an American, I would not wish to live in any other country under any other rule. I am greatful I can make choices that in some places I could DIE or the very least be jailed for some of the choices we all make on an every day basis. I do feel safer here in America even with all the anti-Amercans inside and outside of our Country. I'm not totally happy with our economy, but it's not all on our government to make it work. Mostly I don't care how the rest of the world views us, we can't MAKE them like us anymore than they can make us like them. The best I can do as 1 person is to behave in a way I feel is right and hope by my possitive example that others will see that America isn't about the preconcieved notions of us as a nation. As an American I can stand up for what I believe is right, vote, contact my state leaders and encourage them to listen to my pov's. We are such a rich nation, in more than just money, but there are so many that refuse to see how truely pampered we are, even our poor.

I will leave this as is, I just wanted to point out that this disrespect from other nations is not a "new" thing that just popped up with the Bush administration.

Marg of Arabia 10-08-2003 02:57 PM

KeysMama,

Yes, I understand where you are coming from. My dh worked overseas for 7 years. We first lived in Indonesia and then in Saudi. I have always been keenly aware of what the world thinks of my country! I agree with you about being embarassed. And, I do appreciate America in many ways. After living in third world countries, I know how much we are blessed with here. We do take our immense wealth for granted! Most Americans have no idea of the day to day struggles most citizens in the world face. I agree with you about traveling abroad. We should all make our greatest effort to NOT be ugly Americans......

The fact that we do have so much wealth, resources, educated people, and wonderful land to work with makes it even more frustrating to see how we have behaved globally!!!!!


cicerosum,


Quote:
Then again, maybe it's not such a bad idea to all pack up and just let 'er self-destruct. It would be an interesting scene...

Yes, I feel this way quite a bit lately. I am more frustrated than I have ever been!!! And, I hear what you are saying about being lumped in with the masses. I am feeling hopeless at this time. I feel bad for my children. I do not see a very bright future for them.

lilirose 10-08-2003 03:28 PM

sorry, having to remove all posts with personal info due to an online stalker.

mahdokht 10-08-2003 03:32 PM

***

Lucky Charm 10-08-2003 03:37 PM

Quote:
Are you proud to be an American??
Yes.

I love my country very much. I am proud to be an American and live in a country where i can be free to think, act, worship, hate my president if i want without fear of death.

I love that i can wake up and not be afraid , that i can raise my kids how i want. that i have all the opportunities that this country offers. That i can work, stay home, start a business, vote for who i wish, protest if i want, leave this country if i choose. I can use my money how i like, give to causes which i support, live in a big house if i want and make more money than my own president.

And i dont care what you think of me Marg, so why on earth would i care about what someone thinks of me in another country, kwim?

Clarification: I like Marg. very much. i am trying to say i dont care what she or anyone else thinks of me (including my own family) so why on earth would i give a seconds thought to what someone thinks of me in another country?

Lisa

Arduinna 10-08-2003 03:51 PM

I love all these comparisions of the US to third world countries, as if the US is the only nation in the world where people can protest, say what what they want and live a prosperous and safe life. Just more of the same old same old. It's USA or Cuba, :

The US is not the only free nation in the world.

For the record, I'm not suddenly embarrassed because of this admin, that is just the most recent example of Americanism to be embarrassed about. Our relations with other nations of the world has been one of a bully with a superiority complex for alot longer than Bush has been in office.

Elphaba 10-08-2003 04:01 PM

we're looking into immigrating. or at the very least living abroad until things aren't so Orwellian here.

Marg of Arabia 10-08-2003 04:25 PM

N.M.

Quote:
I'm sorry you feel so depressed, but why bring that onto your children?


I haven't brought anything onto my children!:
Not sure what you mean by that??


Glad you feel good about the state of affairs! Wish I did!!


reeseccup,



Quote:
No matter what we Americans do, to the people that don't understand, know, or care to even learn us in a factual light we'll be nothing but a joke or as you so kindly point out as "war mongering, money worshipping, imperialistic country, complete with corrupt political election tampering and an un-elected president who lies everytime his mouth opens".

To be honest, your post makes no sense to me. I really do not understand your point???

Quote:
Just to clearify something for you. American has been looked down upon for a lot longer than 3 years, so don't blame the present administration for that. Most of the world see us as what our movies and tv shows show us as well as our politics and the public media exagerated bickering.
Once again, this make no sense to me?????




Quote:
I suppose you didn't realize we Americans were a laughing stock and a brunt of shameful jokes and abuse over seas in the 8 years of the Clinton administration .

I was living overseas during the time you are referring to. You are right I didn't realize" Americans were a laughing stock and a brunt of shameful jokes " While living in Asia and the Mid-East we had the chance to regularly visit Europe. I never witness what you are speaking of. Where did you come up with that observance?

After 9/11 we had the world behind us!! We had enormous support, respect, and sympathy. What did we do with that sentiment?? First we went into Afghanistan to go after the Taliban. Did we help the Afghanis?? NO!!! They are no better off. Then we unilaterally, pre-emptively struck the very weak and poor country of Iraq for no concrete reasons! Along with dozens of other bad foreign policy decisions. Our slacker way of dealing with the Israel/Palestine situation and so on...... So, yes, I do believe the world has some pretty good reasons to hate this country.

marg

lilirose 10-08-2003 06:00 PM

sorry, having to remove all posts with personal info due to an online stalker.

El Casey S 10-08-2003 06:36 PM

Gee - and I've lived in Germany since 1993 - the Clintons were and still are really admired here! If anyone was/is being poked fun at and thought of as being strange, it has been the US CITIZENS who made such a big deal of the former President's sex life. And in answer to your question, Marg - the Clintons saw in the late 80's early 90's that the country was falling behind and were anxious to deal with it as best they could (which was a motivating factor for their presidential race) - the Republicans have only been interested in trying to set the clock back to a time where everything was good in the US (which was like, never) and gain power, rather than deal constructively with where the US is in the world and grow on!!

reeseccup 10-08-2003 07:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by El Casey S
Gee - and I've lived in Germany since 1993 - the Clintons were and still are really admired here! If anyone was/is being poked fun at and thought of as being strange, it has been the US CITIZENS who made such a big deal of the former President's sex life. And in answer to your question, Marg - the Clintons saw in the late 80's early 90's that the country was falling behind and were anxious to deal with it as best they could (which was a motivating factor for their presidential race) - the Republicans have only been interested in trying to set the clock back to a time where everything was good in the US (which was like, never) and gain power, rather than deal constructively with where the US is in the world and grow on!!

Well I'm happy for you, where we lived it wasn't so uh, nice. I would go into the stores and there would be little statues and such with Clinton in compromising possitions ect. I'd see cartoons in the papers, on the news. We lived on the economy and there were gangs doing drive by shootings, hate grafiti, threatening flyers in our mailboxes. We'd go downtown and refugees would throw anything from food to rocks at us. Even before we bombed Kosovo, the sideways dirty looks quite a lot. Lucky for me I look more German as well as my children (or irish whoever you ask) so I wasn't "harrased" as much as some of my friends. I did have more "good" experiances than others and even have German friends that I addore, but I did see and experiance "the other side".

daylily 10-08-2003 08:29 PM

I think Keys mama said it best: for every obnoxious, thoughtless, jingoist American, there's a thoughtful, respectful American. So, no, I'm not ashamed to be an American, although I've never identified strongly as an American anyway.

But Reesecup is right that America has been unpopular in other countries for a long time. My SIL has family in Sweden and there was quite a bit of snickering there at Bill Clinton and his sexual adventures. But Clinton's morals aside, the US has been a bully around the world for a long time. To mention a couple examples: How many people died in Africa because of our anxiety about setting up "democratic" governments there? What about our dealings in Central and South America?

But I don't feel I should be ashamed--and I imagine people in the international community can understand that there are millions of good Americans. (After all the majority of us did not vote for Bush.) And if they can't understand that, then they're just as bad as they see us. Sorry.

reeseccup 10-08-2003 08:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Marg of Arabia
N.M.



Glad you feel good about the state of affairs! Wish I did!!


reeseccup,
To be honest, your post makes no sense to me. I really do not understand your point???
Once again, this make no sense to me?????
I was living overseas during the time you are referring to. You are right I didn't realize" Americans were a laughing stock and a brunt of shameful jokes " While living in Asia and the Mid-East we had the chance to regularly visit Europe. I never witness what you are speaking of. Where did you come up with that observance?

After 9/11 we had the world behind us!! We had enormous support, respect, and sympathy. What did we do with that sentiment?? First we went into Afghanistan to go after the Taliban. Did we help the Afghanis?? NO!!! They are no better off. Then we unilaterally, pre-emptively struck the very weak and poor country of Iraq for no concrete reasons! Along with dozens of other bad foreign policy decisions. Our slacker way of dealing with the Israel/Palestine situation and so on...... So, yes, I do believe the world has some pretty good reasons to hate this country.

marg
To Clarify:

I understood as your orriginal post in coming off as you were JUST noticing this dislike for Americans and thought it was a new thing, plain and simple it's not and has been around for a very long time. Your utter distaste for the present administration is obvious so I understood it as you blaming Bush for all the troubles, that is my take on your posting.

It is not just in 3rd world countries that I speak of, not sure where that came from or even if it was implying to anything I said. What I speak of I experienced fist hand from living in Germany.

If you don't understand now, I'm not sure how I can make it anymore clear.


BTW, IMO, Socialism isn't my idea of freedom, and the extreem left seems to want to take us down that path.

that's all I have to say about that :P

MamaOui 10-08-2003 08:33 PM

Just our of curiosity Reese, if you don't mind sharing, where did you live?

MamaOui 10-08-2003 08:35 PM

I must have posted at the same time that you did, Reese.

Tracy 10-08-2003 11:11 PM

by the way... i don't know how many people have actually gone to world papers in the last 12 hours. I did.
I saw a mixed review of the events here in California.

for more on the topic see:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/977517.asp?0dm=H25IN

go to the thread for the whole thing...

but here were a few notes...kind of curious.. and by the way, I loathe the idea of Governor Schwartznegger...







UNCHARTED POLITICAL TERRITORY’
London’s Evening Standard newspaper said Schwarzenegger’s election “takes the state and perhaps even the United States into uncharted political territory.”
“California has elected a right-wing movie actor as its Governor before — Ronald Reagan — but never one so completely inexperienced in the world of politics and government,” the Evening Standard wrote.
But some expressed admiration for an American rags-to-riches story.

French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy broke with the generally condescending tone in the French media to say most French would look down on any politician who had not gone to an elite school.
“Someone who was a foreigner in the country with an unpronounceable name came become governor of the largest state in the United States — that’s not nothing!”
Erik Aasard, head of the Swedish Institute for North American Studies at the University of Uppsala, said the outcome could be explained only by voter dissatisfaction with the economy.
“The only way to explain this is not so much that Schwarzenegger is an attractive candidate — which he certainly is — but that the voters are enormously dissatisfied with the California administration, and especially the fact that the economy has been so bad for the past years,” Aasard said.

‘CANNOT BE IMAGINED IN CHINA’
In communist China, where leaders aren’t democratically elected and dissent isn’t tolerated, several Internet users posted messages on a news commentary board at the popular Web site Sohu.com.
“This cannot be imagined in China,” said one, who did not sign the message.
In Japan, television news gave the Hollywood star’s victory top billing. “It’s the American dream,” said Hideya Sugio, the anchor of the evening news at TBS, a national network.

Britishmum 10-09-2003 12:12 AM

Reesecup, you said "The majority of the world didn't have any respect for us BEFORE the present administration, and really, it'll take a whole heck of a lot more work than having a change of administration/parties to get any respect. I suppose you didn't realize we Americans were a laughing stock and a brunt of shameful jokes and abuse over seas in the 8 years of the Clinton administration . Just like we are with Bush now. No matter what we Americans do, to the people that don't understand, know, or care to even learn us in a factual light we'll be nothing but a joke"

I'm sorry, but you are very wrong. Certainly I think I can speak from a European perspective. Before the present administration, the British, who I can certainly speak for, may have raised their eyebrows at the shinnanagins of Clinton, and wonder why he didn't just resign - which a British politician would have had to have done as they just can't weather such scandal. The British viewed Americans in general as somewhat immature - let's face it, you are an immature nation compared with Europe. They raised their eyebrows at the loudness of Americans' voices and dress sense. But that was about it.

Now, they laugh publicly at your politiicians. They cannot believe that you elected, or some say, selected, a president who could not even name the world's leaders. A man who had 'only' been arrested a few times, and had some alcohol issues that would block any British politician from holding office. Whatever you might say about that being GW's past, in the UK, you would not be viewed seriously as a politician with that sort of past. But the biggest joke to the British is GW's clear lack of intelligence. I'm sorry, but a man who had the most expensive education available who I gather had the worst grades in university that can still constitute a pass - as the world leader? How gullible must the American people be to take him seriously?

Although, of course, we shudder as the world has to take him seriously. Money bought him his position - nobody could seriously believe that without his family's fortune and position this man could have held serious office. That is the joke, but it is a black humour.

Now, many Brits now dislike Tony Blair, although many still support him and I believe he'd get re-elected if push came to shove. But nobody can deny that the man has a sharp mind and can speak. He is intelligent and a craftsman as a politician. He answers questions in parliament on the spot. Could you imagine GW doing that? Facing Prime Ministers question time and being able to string a sentence together?

And now you've elected an actor because you believe that he knows something about politics. AGain, without his fame and fortune, woudl Arnold have ever been elected? Nobody even knows what his policies are, but the fame of his name was enuogh to get him elected.

Yes, now it is a huge joke abroad. Or it would be if it werent' so serious.

Mona 10-09-2003 12:24 AM


Well said Hilary and Britishmum

Marg of Arabia 10-09-2003 12:41 AM

Quote:
I understood as your orriginal post in coming off as you were JUST noticing this dislike for Americans and thought it was a new thing, plain and simple it's not and has been around for a very long time.
Once again I can't understand what you are referring to???

: : : : :

I said the world has lost "TOTAL" respect for us. Yes, I do believe that we had some amount of respect before Bush and friends took over.

Geez!! I am not talking about our cultural popularity or if people are poking fun at us!!! I am talking about politics, international relations, bi-lateralism, listening to world opinion!!!! And everything else our country has been failing at!!!!!

Reesesccup, You do not seem to be reading or understanding responses to your posts. You are also twisting what you have read. I will no longer waste my time on responses with you!! Good luck!!!

marg

Hilary Briss 10-09-2003 01:14 AM

I think the real tragedy of 9/11 is that, for once, much of the world was in support of the United States, and a tremendous amount of goodwill was extended to us. A more reasoned, and thought out response to the terror attacks would have sustained that goodwill, and provided us with an opportunity to remake how the rest of the world sees us.

The Bush regime chose to piss away all of that goodwill, by flipping off our allies and going ahead with ill-advised and ill-planned wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. They have successfully alienated many people and nations that might otherwise still be viewing us more favorably.

candiland 10-09-2003 01:27 AM

gee, I loved my post so much I thought I'd post it twice!

candiland 10-09-2003 01:28 AM

Quote:
I love that i can wake up and not be afraid , that i can raise my kids how i want.
Wow. That must be really nice.

isleta 10-09-2003 04:48 AM

Well, Marg and Hilary you are right again! This president has sunk us so very low. Maybe in the past there was anti-americanism, but today because of our gov'ts policies, many more countries and people dislike us.

I am proud to be a human being.

And about the raising the kid item.. I feel the same way. I was caught off guard by my little guy. I never imagined being a single mom-or a mom. However, I am so happy that he came along But, I do worry and am scared sometimes by his future. Sure, I wake up every mo

isleta 10-09-2003 04:54 AM

...morning and raise him the way I want to. However, that does not make me shut out the world and live in a box! Our actions have made my sons life tougher and scarier than before. Plus, my president does not seem to care. His agenda is more important.

However, getting sick of my computer

sadie_sabot 10-09-2003 05:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by sweetbaby3

I love that i can wake up and not be afraid , that i can raise my kids how i want. that i have all the opportunities that this country offers. That i can work, stay home, start a business, vote for who i wish, protest if i want, leave this country if i choose. I can use my money how i like, give to causes which i support, live in a big house if i want and make more money than my own president.
Unfortunately, that sense of security is not universally available in the US, nor those opportunities. You gotta be white and/or upper-middle class and/or lucky.

daylily 10-09-2003 09:21 AM

Quote:
They cannot believe that you elected, or some say, selected, a president who could not even name the world's leaders
We didn't elect him. He cheated! He stole the election and got himself appointed president by the Supreme Court. The majority of Americans voted for Gore.


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