Muslim Girl suspended for hijab - Mothering Forums

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Old 10-13-2003, 01:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/10...eut/index.html

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Board officials met Friday to discuss the fate of suspended sixth-grader Nashala "Tallah" Hern, who was asked to leave school in the eastern Oklahoma town of Muskogee on October 1 because she refused to remove her head scarf, called a "hijab."

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Old 10-13-2003, 01:28 AM
 
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Wow....

I didn't get from the article - is this a public school?
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Old 10-13-2003, 01:57 AM
 
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How the hell can they say their stupid dress code supercedes a persons right to freedom of religion. The mind, quite simply, boggles. If they refuse to let her back in school do they have to provide her a tutor?
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Old 10-13-2003, 02:36 AM
 
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I can't help but think of that old reactionary (the song - not necessarily songwriter - at least not all the time) Merle Haggard song: "I'm Just an Okie from Muskogee".

Same town, right?

Sheesh.

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Old 10-13-2003, 03:43 AM
 
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That's just plain old wrong. If a child can wear a crucifix or Star of David then the headcovering should be allowed as should the Yarmulke.

Insanity!!

Denny
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Old 10-13-2003, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, it is that town in the Merle Haggard song. I can only assume it is a public school. Muskogee is not a huge town. It isn't really a small town but it isn't a big one. I doubt there are many private schools there.

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Old 10-13-2003, 11:41 AM
 
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Obviously, we've talked the "headscarf" subject to death, but I have been thinking about it again this week. Where I live, this is currently not an issue. At my workplace, this is not an issue. But what I was thinking about was what hijab means to people. To many women, it is a symbol of Islam, like a badge, donned before leaving the house. I find this to be true with many converts/reverts. To many, many others, it is not symbolic; it is, simply, required clothing. A good example of this is most of my in-laws. They do not place symbolic meaning into their scarves--they simply would not leave the house without them.

Especially for the latter group, this school's rules--and from my reading, it does appear to be a public school--violate the right to religious freedom.

Not long ago, there was another case involving a Catholic school. That is another matter.

With this case, I really cannot imagine her losing her right to wear a scarf.:
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Old 10-13-2003, 12:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by dentente
That's just plain old wrong. If a child can wear a crucifix or Star of David then the headcovering should be allowed as should the Yarmulke.

Insanity!!

Denny
Exactly the way I feel about it too.
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Old 10-13-2003, 02:40 PM
 
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Old 10-13-2003, 03:10 PM
 
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Makdoht I have always loved your sig. It's really cool.

Denny
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Old 10-13-2003, 05:15 PM
 
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ITA, mahdokht, it is not their place to determine her intention...I was just thinking about how many people are threatened by women wearing hijab--because they seem to read more "meaning" into it than the wearer ever intends for it to have, kwim? That was the point I was getting at (and failing to make). Nothing to do with one reason's being more...legitimate than another. Because that's certainly not what's at issue.

And of course, for those who wear it with symbolic meaning, I guess it's a freedom of speech issue? I just cannot imagine that a school board would (later this week) actually require the girl to attend without it or not attend. I cannot imagine.

I went to a small high school that, while there was absolutely NO gang activity when I attended, there was a no hat rule. Needless to say, we also had no Muslims or Jews to test the extent of its scope.
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Old 10-13-2003, 05:23 PM
 
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there was a girl in Lincoln Park, Michigan that was suspended for wearing a pentagram (sp?) she sued and won, having the right to wear it and go back to school. It was public school. She was teased so much afterward that she ended up killing herself. I wish people would just wake up.
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Old 10-14-2003, 11:32 AM
 
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Heather,

I remember that case but I didn't know she ended up killing herself. How sad.

Now onto hijab. Honestly, sometimes when I come here I feel like I have so much more work to do in order to become accepting of all people based on the content of their character and not the color of their skin or covering on their head or form of worship, etc.

Hijab used to really offend me, it was like "they" were rubbing it into "our" face that they weren't one of "us". Then I actually explored life beyond my narrow preconceptions and learned that white middle class sensibilities weren't the only ones, and that just because a woman wears a hijab and maybe no makeup, doesn't mean she isn't just as American as I am.

I don't even blink when I see hijab now and several mamas I know and have befriended do. Although I still find it jarring on teen girls, but that is my own prejudice and has nothing to do with them.

Anyway, I just watched the movie "Bend it Like Beckham" and it was so neat that the father character, who was Sikh, was given a special British Airways turban to wear to work. I wish my own supposedly tolerant country actually crossed the bridge into acceptance.
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Old 10-14-2003, 11:51 AM
 
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Gee, another toughy.

If the public school doesn't allow Christian prayer, then it should not allow anything religion, including hijab. But if other children can come to school with symbols of their religion, then hijab should be allowed.



Slightly OT~

Does an adults hijab cover the face?
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Old 10-14-2003, 11:55 AM
 
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MirandaW: there are special police turbans as well. They have the black and white checked pattern running around them like the helmets and hats do. Also from last year female Muslim police officers are allowed to wear police hijab.

There are pictures of the police turbans and the police hijab as part of this BBC article.

Potty Diva: As far as I know, whether or not the hijab covers the face is dependent on the individual, her country of origin and her own personal interpretation of the dress codes.
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Old 10-14-2003, 12:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Potty Diva
Gee, another toughy.

If the public school doesn't allow Christian prayer, then it should not allow anything religion, including hijab. But if other children can come to school with symbols of their religion, then hijab should be allowed.


I thought they were just not allowed to make it mandatory that everyone pray, but they have to allow it if kids want to form prayer groups , or if individuals want to pray they cannot stop them. Personally I think they should worry more about the girl who has half her chest hanging out our her pants that are cut so low you can see things instead of someone who is probably a good student, never caused any problems and is doing what her religion tells her to do. I had a friend in high school whose father made her wear the hijab to school, he was very strict with it and she had other family members that went to school with us so he knew if she took it off.
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Old 10-14-2003, 12:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by PinkSunfish
MirandaW: there are special police turbans as well. They have the black and white checked pattern running around them like the helmets and hats do. Also from last year female Muslim police officers are allowed to wear police hijab.

There are pictures of the police turbans and the police hijab as part of this BBC article.

Potty Diva: As far as I know, whether or not the hijab covers the face is dependent on the individual, her country of origin and her own personal interpretation of the dress codes.
That is so cool!
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Old 10-14-2003, 12:34 PM
 
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Old 10-14-2003, 01:28 PM
 
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We have many mennonite families in the area, and the women of some of the families (depending upon what type of mennonite they are) wear a little bonnet-like head covering. So do the girls. It has never been an issue, even in schools that don't allow hats. I wonder if it is an issue in Oklahoma (I'm from Kansas).

We have many muslim families in our town, but the ones who are of the sort to wear a hijab usually go to the muslim school. My husband has several female muslim students in his classes, and none of them wear a hijab, though some do dress more modestly than others. Some dress just like the "typical" student.....low cut girly-tshirt, hip hugger jeans with the thong showing in back. We've always wondered what they wear when they go to mosque. They are very sweet kids, though, as are most high school students, once you get to know them.
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Old 10-14-2003, 02:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by mahdokht
HVL, please note that there are plenty of young women ( I was one of them) who wear hijab in high school or elementary school because they want to and not because anyone, male or female forces them to. In fact, I have known far more young women who had to fight with families who were against hijab than those who wore it because they were forced to. I'm not sure what you were sharing with that anecdote, but, in my experience it isn't representative of all or even most Muslim women.
I understand that fully, we had alot of muslim girls in my school, which happens to be the same school the girl was suspended for the pentagram wearing and later killed herself. Maybe I just worded it wrong, sorry to push buttons. I was just supporting the wearing and ones religion, thats all.
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Old 10-14-2003, 03:31 PM
 
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Can someone clarify for those of us less informed... by definition is a hijab simply a head covering but not a face covering? Does a veil that also covers the face have a different name?

I headed off a tangent on this topic at another board about how distracting it would be for the teacher if she couldn't see the students face by refering the dolt to the picture that accomponied the article that he himself had posted!
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Old 10-14-2003, 04:01 PM
 
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Old 10-14-2003, 05:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by MirandaW
I wish my own supposedly tolerant country actually crossed the bridge into acceptance.


Seems like a good as place as any to add this news into the mix:
France Backs School Ban on Islamic Veils
http://news.findlaw.com/ap_stories/i...003005_13.html
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Old 10-14-2003, 08:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Administrators at the girls' high school, in Aubervilliers outside Paris, said the headscarves were ostentatious symbols of religion.
I wonder if they ban necklaces or other Christian symbols at their puplic schools in France???? Anyone know????

And, I don't think the head covering is a religious symbol. I see it more as a way of life for muslim women. When it goes against your religion to expose a part of your body in public, that is much more than a symbol. I see it as an ancient custom that has been carried on for generations.

Thanks for the link, R.D.!
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Old 10-14-2003, 09:44 PM
 
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More on how many of our friends on the other side of the pond are getting their knickers in a twist over the headscarf worn by teachers. kids etc.:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3135600.stm
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Old 10-15-2003, 12:45 AM
 
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Old 10-15-2003, 01:40 AM
 
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Oh mahdohkt you just don't get it. Feminism is the freedom to dress like a $6 whore.. not freedom to dress modestly! Back to womens studies class for you!
[/sarcasm]

I have nothing against the French in general, but in this matter they are obviously more interested in "freedom FROM" over "Freedom TO". I don't care for that way of thinking.
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Old 10-15-2003, 01:32 PM
 
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Old 10-15-2003, 02:36 PM
 
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mahdokht


Quote:
BTW I think "HOOTERS" is much more symbolic of women's oppression than a headscarf.
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Old 05-06-2004, 05:34 PM
 
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As Salaam Alaikum,

Sister mahdohkt, very good posts. i know that i am coming in on this a little to late!

There are so many misunderstandings about the dress of muslim women. Thanks for breaking it down for people to understand!

Khoda Hafez
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