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Old 11-29-2001, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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out the 9/11 terrorist attack?? I am just curious. I know that whilst living in Saudi most of my Arab friends would ask me this question. I didn't have an answer for them. Has there been any credible evidence???. I have heard that some believe it was Saddam. I know my Arab friends do not believe it was OBL> They think he would like to take credit for it but isn't smart enough to have carried it out. I would like to know what you all think. Thanks, marg
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Old 11-29-2001, 04:19 PM
 
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I have often wondered this exact same thing. As soon as the attack happened, people were pointing to OBL, the same people who didn't even know where Afganistan was (these are my friends/family who watch too much tv). I remember telling them that I thought OBL would love to own up to it, hasn't he always? I could be wrong on the always thing but the point still stands. Anyway, I think that the US hasn't done a good job in this area. I hear on NPR (we don't have a TV), that the government still has not direct link with OBL. What is up with that? We have killed countless people because we think we know. I am sure God is sad at our actions. Now for the record, I don't think that what happened here was okay but I surely don't think our actions are above reproach. Was that more than you asked for? Sorry.

All that to say that I am not sure either. Hard question.
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Old 11-29-2001, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I love your response and it was not more than I asked for. I am glad to hear your thinking is so similar to mine.

I think ridding Afghanistan of the Talaban regime is a good thing either way as well as getting rid of OBL and alqaeda. The danger lies in what kind of gov't will settle into Afghanistan now. It could be worse than the Talaban. America needs to follow up with Afghanistan and make sure the gov't ends up decent. Thanks, marg
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Old 11-29-2001, 06:18 PM
 
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Didn't we give money to the Taliban previously? I know I heard that somewhere (sorry, I have read way too much on this to quote it exactly). I think it is so ironic that politicians wax on about how bad the Taliban is when we helped them gain power. It is whatever serves our immediate interests.
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Old 11-29-2001, 06:35 PM
 
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There really hasn't been anything directly linking OBL. What most likely happenned is that the peoplr responsible were funded by Al-Qaeda, at least thats my take. Since Al-Qaeda is such a huge network of orgs rather then an org itself, I figure that OBL was like the grantmaker in the picture, giving $$ to people carrying out a certain type of politics ( if you will)

The US didn't directly help the Taliban ( that I have been able to see) but the Us did train and fund many of the fighters who got the Soviet Union out...those fighters ( OBL was one of them) then set up the Taliban regime.

I think thats it , I may be off.

Peace
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Old 11-30-2001, 12:58 AM
 
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I don't know who planned and carried out the 9/11 attacks. But I am very skeptical of every pointed finger. I think there's alot more to the story than we are aloowed to be told. I think the motivation behind this war is not just revenge, but oppurtunistic gred. I suspect oil motivation. Really, I am very suspicious. I don't know if what we are told about Bin Laden, the Taliban, and Al Qaida is true... I never knew much of any of them before 9/11 (ignorantly!)... Regardless, of the why's or what the motivation may be, I can't condone this or any war. I think of all the innocents that die- babies and children, as well as the destruction to our earth, the pollution, and the psychic pain and suffering that is added to our cosmic web... We are all connected!
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Old 11-30-2001, 02:20 AM
 
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I seem to recall some video propaganda put out by OBL after the 9/11 attacks in which he takes some sort of responsibility for what happened... and threatens the US with more. The evidence that we have was enough to convince British Prime Minister Tony Blair without hesitation.

I do not blindly accept everything that our government tells us, but I try not to adopt a paranoid, "they're out to get us!!" attitude, either. We may not know the details, but I'm confident that our government knows more than you or me.

I agree, Margaret, that the next government in Afghanistan is a serious concern. But I fail to see how it's possible to have a worse one than the Taliban. This is a government who beat you if you clapped at a soccer game (among other far worse atrocities). How on earth could there be a more oppressive regime?
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Old 11-30-2001, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Actually, Merebear,

They may not be worse but they might be just as bad. Right now in Kabul it is very close to anarchy. THe Northern Alliance has not been very impressive. There are rapings and horrific murders taking place while we type. Nightline just had a good show on about it. I know Ted Coppel is annoying. They were saying that the Northern A. has a problem with murdering folks who they consider to be from the wrong tribe. They are not very organized and are not getting the support or guidance they need. We may be trading one evil for another.............. marg
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Old 11-30-2001, 04:16 PM
 
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I think there is a difference between paranoid an questioning.
It is our responsibility to question... all sides of the dilemma.
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Old 12-04-2001, 04:17 AM
 
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Were they able to find out who the terrorists, caught on film as they entered the gates to their planes, were affiliated with or working for?
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Old 12-09-2001, 05:27 PM
 
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Just a response to whether the US supported the Taliban before 9/11. It is my understanding that the US gave the Taliban 40 million dollars in the past year or so to eradicate opium fields.

For many years activists were trying to get the message out about the severe oppression of women and lack of any human rights in Afghanistan. The US gov't didn't really seem to care about it then.

I also wonder whether there was really any evidence directly linking bin laden to the attacks. If anyone remembers, this is what the Taliban was asking for in the week or two following the attacks: Evidence. They said if the US produced it they would turn over bin laden. Now we have spent two months bombing, killed countless civilians and guess what? No bin laden.
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Old 12-10-2001, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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They are afraid to release the video because it is so raw and looks fake. I believe it is real but it still doesn't prove he was the only one behind it. It is good if they can prove this. So many of my Arab friends were angry that no proof was ever shared with the public. This should help. Thanks N.M.
marg
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Old 12-11-2001, 11:44 AM
 
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Marg, are your Arab friends supportive of Bin Laden? Or are they just afraid that he is being unfairly targeted? My feelings on the matter is that he has admitted to planning and financially backing other terrorist attacks on US citizens and that he encourages such acts against us now. In my book that makes him an evil person worthy of some recompense here on earth. Funny, I was watching Gandhi with ds yesterday for our homeschooling. I was struck with what a waste Bin Laden is to his people. With his money and influence and power, he has had such an opportunity to do something really positive like Gandhi. Instead he encourages violence and evil.
I also understand that if we have a video of Bin Laden talking we should have concerns about revealing how we got it and secret intelligence missions and possibly endangering the lives of those working to find the truth. I don't necessarily think that the general public (which since Bin Laden himself watches American news) necessarily has an ultimate right-to-know at all times. Not if lives are at stake.
One last thought. I agreed with the decision of our government to withhold proof from the Taliban. I think it was a game the Taliban was playing where we would show them proof and they would say it was wrong. They had to be aware of his activities yet they claimed he had no access to phones, faxes, computers etc. They continued to protect him when he orchestrated the bombings on the American embassies (sp?) and when he trained people to commit heinous acts of violence against others. At first I thought, why aren't we showing them the proof and then they'll turn him over, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized it was a stall tactic.
And thanks Dierdre, I wasn't motivated enough to do a web search but I am an avid reader and knew I had read that we gave the Taliban a bunch of money awhile back. Funny how we didn't give a @#$% about how they treated their women back then. I just find it laughable how Republicans are saying how much the President cares about women's rights. No one in our whole government gave a rat's behind until it coincided with our own goals.
Now I am pretty liberal and think our government is a huge liar but sorry I cannot think of a single reason why Osama Bin Laden should have the priviledge of life that he has admitted to denying countless others regardless of the WTC attacks.
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Old 12-11-2001, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Laralou,

Most of my friends are Lebonese or Jordanian who were doubting it was Osama. I have always argued with them that I thought it was but I had always wished that there was some kind of REAL proof(which is why I started this thread). My Arab friends were convinced that we were going after the wrong people. Of course they didn't think it was a bad thing to go after Bin Laden for his past terrorist activities. THey just wanted to be sure of exactly who did it(as we all do). They see the USA as knee jerk reactionaries who were just going after the first usual suspect. I think releasing this tape will help. I just wish I was over in Saudi so I can ask my Arab speaking friends what they thinkhe is saying in Arabic. It should be released by tomorrow I understand. It will be interesting.

BTW today is the 3 month anniversary of the towers. What a sad holiday season it is for all those poor families who lost loved ones. I am always thinking of them. I can't imagine going through what they are having to. I am so sad for them and for us all in this new and dangerous world. Sigh.....marg
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Old 12-11-2001, 06:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nursing Mother
Laralou, great insight. I have to disagree though about the issue of people here concerned about women's right in Afghanistan. Since the Taliban took ove,r there was a lot of coverage on what is going on there. I saw a lot of info on Fox news network, PBS and CNBC. Oprah had a whole website on women plights in Afghanistan, and what to do to help.
See I didn't know that. I just quit working full time for the first time in over 10 years and wasn't able to watch much tv when I was working full time so I never saw all this until after the attacks. Thanks for filling me in. It is nice to know they aren't quite as hypocritical as I thought.
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Old 12-11-2001, 06:17 PM
 
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BTW, Marg. I was just listening to NPR in the car (had to bribe ds to turn of the "rock music"). They were discussing the proof issue. Here is what they said.
1) All 19 of the terrorists were trained in Afghanistan--although this was a governmental slip that got out, was supposed to be kept quiet, I don't know why.
2) There is evidence of money transfers to the terrorists' accounts from OBL's main money man.
3) There is some intelligence work done by the Spanish government of the al Queda cell over in Spain that suggests prior knowledge of the attacks.
4) The tapes that have been released of OBL states that he believes the WTC attacks were "blessed by God" and suggests that more will attack and encouraging and celebrating such attacks.
5) The tape that has yet to be released supposedly was found in a home in (sp?) Jalibad and is of a dinner party on 9/11 where he tells people who had heard of the attacks, "Wait, there's more to come" and suggests that he had prior knowledge of the attacks. He also says something about the hijackers not knowing that this was a suicide mission until the last minute suggesting he was involved.
I hope this helps. I took notes on a napkin while I was driving so I wouldn't forget this before I got home.
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Old 12-11-2001, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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thank you so much laralou! I have had a hard day. My middle child and only boy has been bouncing off the walls with some kind of wild energy force!!!! I appreciate your efforts!! Writing on napkins for me!!! That was bloody nice of you!!!! marg
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