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#61 of 165 Old 12-28-2009, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh and I would love to have a conversation about deity. I was thinking about this earlier. My beliefs as they stand now are that I believe I have a Heavenly Mother and Father and I believe they have more children than just me that are also Gods in their own right or on their way to becoming such though I don't focus on them at all as I am on the same path. But what I mainly am thinking of is mythological deities. I think that is the right term? I am having trouble with my wording. Anywho! I tend to think of say Aphrodite more as a representation of that part of humanity and that particular energy in the universe (love, beauty, passion, etc) and this is how I view the other Gods of "myth". This is why I think it makes sense to "call on them" or to be more clear focus on them to bring that energy up in oneself/life. I hope I am making some sense here. I am not Pagan in the sense that I worship or literally believe in these Gods but I do believe in them in the sense that they are representations and I do think they have a use/purpose. I also feel the same way about colors and herbs/scents- they all are a part of that specific energy. Pink and roses bring to mind love, lavender in both herb and color bring to mind a sort of peace, etc etc.

Hope I didn't offend anyone! I would love to hear your thoughts...

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#62 of 165 Old 12-28-2009, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Me again!

I meant to post this but forgot...
http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/wicc...gical_Life.htm

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#63 of 165 Old 12-28-2009, 08:50 PM
 
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Ok, here we go.

Re: Tarot. DH and I are largely into tarot (although, admittedly, we have become somewhat lax over the years) but it is one of the things we first bonded over. I fully believe that divination is a gift of the spirit, and we are told that we must cultivate our gifts. I agree that it's not about "seeing the future", it's a method of tuning into a part of you that you are unaware of, and even helping others to tune into that as well.

And re: deity. I actually tried to explain this to people so many times (when I was pagan) that I finally found what I believe to be a really good analogy. Say you need to speak to a cardiologist about a heart problem that would possibly need surgery. You could call the hospital, but you wouldn't just talk to whoever answered the phone. You would ask for the cardiology department. You may even do some research in advance and ask for the best cardiologist you could find.

God is the hospital. Specific "deities" like Isis (my big one) are like the cardiology department. "Calling" certain deities are a way to tap into a specific section/purpose/energy of God. Obviously I do not believe that these entities exist in the strictest sense - it is that I am attempting to reach a certain part/characteristic of one of my Heavenly Parents. This is something that I have always believed, even before I went more Christian with my beliefs. If you have any knowledge of Hindu, their beliefs are similar. They have a LOT of gods/goddesses but they are all part of Brahman(sp?) who is the supreme God.

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#64 of 165 Old 12-28-2009, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That makes total sense to me, Moonprysm. Thanks! I also understand where you are coming from with the tarot.

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#65 of 165 Old 12-29-2009, 12:07 AM
 
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I'm reading Earth Path by Starhawk right now and what you are describing, Maggie, sounds similar to how she describes her belief in multiples deities. I like how you think of the as incarnations if you will of certain values.

I feel for my own worship that I feel more comfortable always calling on Elohim (Heavenly Father) but even using Elohim opens up the conversation to multiple Gods because the El is plural, right?

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#66 of 165 Old 12-29-2009, 12:36 AM
 
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Maggie I have to admit that I have always been somewhat afraid of tarot cards - mostly because I was raised to think that anything outside of my religion was evil. Now that I've done some inner work and really reworked my own beliefs, I find myself curious about tarot. I have a deck of cards from Christiane Northrup, MD called "Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom Healing Cards." They are more like a link to your intuition than any sort of "seeing into the future" type of thing. I also see dowsing and using pendulums this way - as an extension of one's intuition or other parts of the self that we do not readily have access to. Maybe sleeping with your tarot cards under your pillow was comforting - you know, feeling like you had ready access to your deeper self/intuition.

As far as deities go, I find that it seems they come into my life when I need them. I have a 10 month old DS and all during my pregnancy with him I kept feeling Kali around me. She first appeared to me as a "comfort queen" - a being with many arms, juggling many things, but with a fierce look on her face. Then I figured out that it was Kali and have had an affinity for her ever since. So as far as deities go, for me, I just tap into them when they seem to come into my life for various reasons. I had a really hard time deciding if I was going to birth at home or in the hospital and I once had a dream that I was Kali giving birth in the hospital. Now I see this dream as a warning that I needed to stay out of the hospital. My DS was born very peacefully at home.

Moonprysm I really like your description of the deities.

Must read Starhawk - she has been coming up in different conversations lately - this must mean something...

Leslie, open-hearted mama to 3.5 yr old dd and almost 1 yr ds
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#67 of 165 Old 12-29-2009, 03:05 PM
 
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That is wonderful! So you got your pajama pants done on time (I think it was you that mentioned that)... how cool and what a wonderful idea. I really liked your "About Me" description, btw
thank you!! and I'm like you re: the tarot cards, I don't really know anything about them other than they're supposed to be evil. eh.

Speaking of intuition/access to your deeper self, has anyone read Women Who Run With the Wolves? Whoa--I'm reading it now and it's blowing me away. I write commentaries for a weekly paper and am having an article published soon where I mention that book and how important it is to find out who we are authentically and bring her (or him) to life. I admit that I wonder how people in 'my' church and 'the church' will/would react, as it seems taboo to immerse oneself/believe in accessing intuition since to do so means to question patriarchy and well, that's what the instution of the church is built on isn't it!...but I wholeheartedly disagree with that stance. Or am I reading too much into it/feeling like I will be judged when that's probably not the case? I just hate the feeling of feeling judged, but more than that I feel what I feel and believe what I believe. And I have also written about circ'ing and vaxxing, so I guess I can stand up to some controversy.

I love this discussion!

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#68 of 165 Old 12-29-2009, 03:36 PM
 
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Cachet! I was just thinking about Women Who Run With the Wolves last night! I've read parts of it but can never get through the whole thing. It's so deep that I have to take it in little bits at a time. It was a major catalyst for me in exploring what it means to be a woman. I love that book so much! I refer to it often in my life's journey. A very good friend of mine used to have "women's studies" at her apartment and we would read a fairy tale from the book aloud and then do all this digging and exploring around it. It was wonderful and I truly miss her and those circle times. She moved away.

About the patriarchy thing - I have had the same experience with 'the church'. So much so that it chased me away from Christianity for a while. A minister at the church I was attending made it very clear that when we were having women's bible study, no women were allowed on the pulpit. I cannot subscribe to a religion that sees women that way. I think there is definitely a place for feminine and masculine energy in the world, but there is never a place for putting one sex above another, ever. I believe we need balance in the world.

I would be very interested in reading your article. It's takes a lot of guts to put one's views out into the world, but we do not grow as human beings unless we consider all sides to the story. And yes, if you can write about circ'ing and vaxxing then I would think that tackling this issue would be easier but that's just me.

Oh, also wanted to say that for the Hew Years Questionnaire: for the part that's Creating 2010 I decided to do a Treasure Map for the New Year. I know we're supposed to do this on the Aries New Moon, but I only just found out about Treasure Mapping so that's what I decided to do. I'm gonna do my Treasure Map around the seven chakras and other things that I want to bring into my life for the New Year

Leslie, open-hearted mama to 3.5 yr old dd and almost 1 yr ds
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#69 of 165 Old 12-29-2009, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm reading Earth Path by Starhawk right now and what you are describing, Maggie, sounds similar to how she describes her belief in multiples deities. I like how you think of the as incarnations if you will of certain values.

I feel for my own worship that I feel more comfortable always calling on Elohim (Heavenly Father) but even using Elohim opens up the conversation to multiple Gods because the El is plural, right?
That is one of DH's favorite books.

Elohim is something like "council of gods". Or at least can be interpreted as such especially in our own beliefs.

ETA- that sounded like I was saying addressing Elohim is wrong. I wasn't! If you feel it by all means go with it!

~*~*~*~*~*~
I am going to have to pick up Women Who Run With the Wolves.

For me my issues with Patriarchy aren't that men are viewed as superior in some places (although of course that is an issue) or that they have a different calling but rather that womanhood is looked down on and not treated with the amount of respect it should be. It's undesirable to have children let alone care for them. Women's emotions and intuition? Either something made up by Hollywood or nothing more than those darn female mood swings.

~*~*~*~*~*~
Sky- I know what you mean about the tarot and being uneasy about it. I was like that at first and even now am thinking long and hard about it. My thing though is I have never believed an object to be "evil" in and of itself. It's what one does with it. Is the tarot evil or bad? No, it's a deck of cards. What I choose to do with them should be the issue, ykwim? I'm just trying to sort out my feelings on it...

I have been eying this deck for years. You can view them all here.

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#70 of 165 Old 12-29-2009, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok so I am about to get real crazy on y'all ...

Lovers. I had the thought about a year ago that my own beliefs can be described as the Lover's Path. I was thinking how the religion of the Mother (Paganism) and that of the Father (Christianity) are united in my beliefs like lovers. They're married. And in my mind that brings a sort of balance. The world/universe/life can't and shouldn't lean on the feminine or the masculine but needs to have a balance of the two. This brings a lot of depth to The Great Union to me. And in my mind you can see this union everywhere in our world and lives- the marriage of the masculine and feminine.

/crazy

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#71 of 165 Old 12-29-2009, 07:52 PM
 
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Ok so I am about to get real crazy on y'all ...

Lovers. I had the thought about a year ago that my own beliefs can be described as the Lover's Path. I was thinking how the religion of the Mother (Paganism) and that of the Father (Christianity) are united in my beliefs like lovers. They're married. And in my mind that brings a sort of balance. The world/universe/life can't and shouldn't lean on the feminine or the masculine but needs to have a balance of the two. This brings a lot of depth to The Great Union to me. And in my mind you can see this union everywhere in our world and lives- the marriage of the masculine and feminine.

/crazy
Maggie- This does not sound crazy to me. I get it. The tarot cards you linked to are beautiful. What deck would you recommend for a beginner?


I am here, not sure exactly what my beliefs are at the moment. I am LDS and I also have always, always been drawn to to Earth and Her beauty and the Moon and the seasons. I am searching...

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#72 of 165 Old 12-29-2009, 10:31 PM
 
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Maggie, your Lovers idea is not crazy at all. Unfortunately, I grew up with the idea that sex had no place in religion or spirituality and the word Lovers implies sex to me. I am working really hard to break this ingrained idea, but it is hard for me to do. It's strange - I no longer have the beliefs that I had as a child, but they have such a hold on me... know what I mean?

Also, I keep seeing LDS. What does that mean?

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#73 of 165 Old 12-29-2009, 10:33 PM
 
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For me my issues with Patriarchy aren't that men are viewed as superior in some places (although of course that is an issue) or that they have a different calling but rather that womanhood is looked down on and not treated with the amount of respect it should be. It's undesirable to have children let alone care for them. Women's emotions and intuition? Either something made up by Hollywood or nothing more than those darn female mood swings.
I know what you mean. I have those same thoughts as well.

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#74 of 165 Old 12-29-2009, 11:14 PM
 
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LDS is Latter-Day Saint, or Mormon. There are several of us here. lol Mormonism is a lot closer to paganism than I think most Mormons would like to admit. haha

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#75 of 165 Old 12-29-2009, 11:38 PM
 
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LDS is Latter-Day Saint, or Mormon. There are several of us here. lol Mormonism is a lot closer to paganism than I think most Mormons would like to admit. haha
Same for christians... and I find Catholics to be particularly afraid of this.

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#76 of 165 Old 12-30-2009, 12:41 AM
 
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LDS is Latter-Day Saint, or Mormon. There are several of us here. lol Mormonism is a lot closer to paganism than I think most Mormons would like to admit. haha

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#77 of 165 Old 12-30-2009, 12:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Maggie- This does not sound crazy to me. I get it. The tarot cards you linked to are beautiful. What deck would you recommend for a beginner?
Though there are some decks for beginners or at least suggested as such IMO the person needs to pick a deck that speaks to them. I know it sounds odd but my first deck I just fell in love with when I saw the art. I *wanted* to own it and therefore to use it. I felt like it just clicked, if any of that makes sense. So my suggestion is to find one that feels right to you- that you feel a sort of "click" or connection to. I would suggest looking at all the cards and really shopping around, too.

What I would suggest is getting a good book on the tarot. I actually didn't learn from a book about the tarot itself but from a book that had a chapter on it. Then I spent time with my deck and reading the book that came with it and got to know it that way. But for the life of me I can't remember the book I was reading...

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Maggie, your Lovers idea is not crazy at all. Unfortunately, I grew up with the idea that sex had no place in religion or spirituality and the word Lovers implies sex to me. I am working really hard to break this ingrained idea, but it is hard for me to do. It's strange - I no longer have the beliefs that I had as a child, but they have such a hold on me... know what I mean?
I was raised with a very rigid view of sex as well. But these days I view sex as sacred and an element of life and creation. You'll get there!

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#78 of 165 Old 12-30-2009, 12:51 AM
 
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sky--that is so cool about your discussion group...so sorry that your good friend moved away. Several of mine have and it's hard to 'start over' and find other friends, at least for me. and YES--WWRWW is so deep, I'm not through it entirely yet. And you know what's even more amazing than the fact that Estes wrote this huge book? It's part one of a five part series--2200 pages in total!!! Unreal. I don't know if she has other books though?? Should check it out... And the church we attend does not allow women elders. This really bothers DH and I. I feel like I take what I can from it and go farther in my own exploration. It (church) is not all there is, nice to know there are others who have issues/question the status quo.

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For me my issues with Patriarchy aren't that men are viewed as superior in some places (although of course that is an issue) or that they have a different calling but rather that womanhood is looked down on and not treated with the amount of respect it should be. It's undesirable to have children let alone care for them. Women's emotions and intuition? Either something made up by Hollywood or nothing more than those darn female mood swings.
amen, mag! i'm bugged by the gender stereotypes and continuing caricature of women as the weaker sex. I like your Lover's Path idea! It makes sense to me.

For anyone interested, my writing blog with my articles is here. To see the actual paper, today's issue is here and I'm on p. 6. My article that i was referring to will run next Tues. I think.

2 more days of 2009, wow. I need to work on that questionnaire!

Krista, crafty blogging mama to four
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#79 of 165 Old 12-30-2009, 01:46 PM
 
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Maggie- I really want this one. http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/druidcraft/ I looked at tons of different decks yesterday and this is the only one that grabbed me. Well, and this one http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards...c-tree-oracle/ but it is an oracle deck.

cachet- off to read your blog.

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#80 of 165 Old 12-30-2009, 07:05 PM
 
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We use the Vertigo Tarot. It's out of print now and DH and I have owned 4 or 5 decks in an attempt to make sure we had plenty on hand for when they wore out (which they tend to do with all the use they used to get) since we knew we wouldn't be able to find them anymore. I can't even think about using another deck, and it's sad to me that we're down to our final deck.

*edit*

Just for the heck of it, I figured I'd look up the deck - They re-released it!!!! EEEPPP! 20th anniversary edition for only $25 on Amazon!!!!

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#81 of 165 Old 12-30-2009, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Such beautiful decks! I can't wait to get mine.

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#82 of 165 Old 12-31-2009, 04:11 PM
 
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I must say how I am really loving this thread

I am going to be out of town until after the weekend so I will catch up on all those great deck links and on your blog, cachet, when I get back. I am taking my Treasuring Mapping/New Year Questionnaire with me in the hopes that I can finish it up before Sunday. I won't have computer access where I'm going - this is probably a good thing for me.

Thanks for the hug Maggie - it's been a big process for me.

I'm gonna say this, and I want all to know that it's not my intention to offend - the only thing I know about Mormonism has to do with all the polygamy and bad press in the news
I would love to hear more about LDS.

Ok, Happy New Year to all!

Leslie, open-hearted mama to 3.5 yr old dd and almost 1 yr ds
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#83 of 165 Old 12-31-2009, 11:10 PM
 
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I'm gonna say this, and I want all to know that it's not my intention to offend - the only thing I know about Mormonism has to do with all the polygamy and bad press in the news
I would love to hear more about LDS.
The Articles of Faith is a great place to start. It is a VERY basic list of some of our most important beliefs. If you really want to go more in-depth, this is a pretty good page for starters.

The Pagan parallels were really what got me to investigate the church in the first place. The acknowledgment of our Heavenly Mother was a HUGE one. The Goddess has always been present in my life and despite my belief in Christ, I could not belong to a Christian church because I thought they all denied Her existence. We also believe in universal salvation. Without the back story, basically if you're on this earth, you've already made decisions that assure that you will go to Heaven. That was another issue for me in Christianity - I could not accept that people who may have never even heard of Jesus would be sent to Hell by a loving Father. The fact that every worthy adult male is a member of the priesthood is also similar to Paganism in that every male can take the position of priest (of course, that depends on your specific branch of Paganism, but it's true for the most part).

I could go on and on. My pagan husband has very little problem going to church with me, even though he isn't exactly on the conversion list.

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#84 of 165 Old 01-04-2010, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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How is 2010 for everyone so far?

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#85 of 165 Old 01-05-2010, 05:20 AM
 
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Our little boy got a strong lesson in the changing of the seasons tonight when we explained to him that the Christmas tree was going to be taken out of the house. He's started asking Why? to everything so we got into how nothing stays the same on earth, that everything is changing, that seasons are passing, the death and birth cycle, etc. He was really sad about it; sad that death and aging is inevitable. Who knew that would happen over a Christmas tree?

Something that stemmed from that though: I have a mini tree (artificial) that I kept in my room at Christmastime when I was a kid. We didn't put it out this year but Chunka discovered it when we were putting ornaments away and I told him that we could keep the little tree out and use it as our changing seasons tree. (We had explained about evergreens and how it stays green even during the winter so we used the reverse logic that it would stay green throughout the rest of the year too). The plan is that we will find things that capture the essence of the season to place on the tree. For January, I'm thinking of an icicle and a photo of Chunka when he was born since his birthday is in January. Other things we'll just come up with. Perhaps, photos of seasonal produce. I'm not sure, but it can be a discovery process where we add and find throughout the years.

Wouldn't it be nice if it became a tradition that we could tie into the cycles of nature? Any ideas, suggestions for items to add for this season or books, resources to look for inspiration?

Other than that, I think I'm setting myself up for burnout so far this year. I feel energized to get into new projects. My husband came to the realization that I need a little more "me" time for social/intellectual/personal pursuits so I'm thinking of adding into that time a birth advocacy/support group (in my community) and a green living group (with my church) that I would be co-organizer of both. I'm trying to figure out what my saturation point is with projects, caring for /teaching children and balancing housework with my husband's schedule. We'll see what comes out of it...

M.Ed. Mama to Chunka (1/07), Beauty (5/09) and Elizabear 3/12): Birth Doula (working toward certification) AAMI Midwifery Student, Advocating with Solace for Mothers & The Birth Survey

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#86 of 165 Old 01-05-2010, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Jenne- I immediately started thinking of all the flowers you could put on it for spring and the eggs for Ostara and Easter. Can you tell I am already longing for springtime?

I'm really into color association so I'd go with white, silver, and blues for right now. Other than that I am no help.

As for resources- have you looked into the Waldorf nature table/altar thing? Obviously I know nothing about it but it looks interesting. You could ask the homeschool mamas. I know their are lots of Waldorf websites out there.

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
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#87 of 165 Old 01-05-2010, 03:16 PM
 
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jenneology - what an awesome idea! Not only are you teaching about life and death, you are also including rebirth in there with the rebirth of the Christmas into a seasonal tree. I have a friend who has a tree in her home all year long and they decorate it with the seasons. I think you could just do whatever comes to you as far as decorations are concerned. I like the icicles and silver, white and blue idea. You could also do some sort of decorations for Martin Luther King, Jr. Day - maybe some kinds of symbols of peace and equality.

My 2010 is very releasing and cleansing so far. Releasing a lot from the heart Chakra while focusing on the Root. I am really looking forward to what comes out of this new year.

On a different note - someone talk to me about spells and such... I scored at Half Priced books the other day. I picked up a copy of The Holy Book of Women's Mysteries by Z. Budapest and I have been reading it and finding myself really working through some ideas surrounding spell work. Mostly struggling with deconstructing acquired beliefs regarding witchcraft...

Leslie, open-hearted mama to 3.5 yr old dd and almost 1 yr ds
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#88 of 165 Old 01-05-2010, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I talked to Z. Budapest on the phone once It was really nothing but I was so excited at the time.

To me (and opinions are going to vary) spells are like prayers in action. Say you are praying for patience (no I am not speaking from personal experience here at all...)- with prayer you bow your head and/or drop to your knees and talk to God (whomever) asking for guidance and help and all that. With spellwork you do the same except you are also making symbolic gestures and using herbs, colors, elements associated with what it is you are asking for help in. So I would be verbally praying "Dear Lord, please help me to find patience" and within spellwork I would be adding the burning of a certain incense, maybe an affirmation/chant, meditation/visualization, invoking the approriate deity for help, etc etc. You don't have to do all of that, of course. Hopefully I am making sense. To some I know spellwork is about the power that comes from you but to me it is less about the power to make things manifest on our own and more about the power we have to ask for help in making things manifest. Like I said different people are going to have different views on how this works and why. I take a more.. I don't even know what you'd call it really. Basically i believe spells and prayers work because they make us more mindful. I do believe in miracles and blessings from God/Mother/The Universe/etc but I also believe in the power of one's mind and one's actions. IMO, though, in order to have this work we have to show restraint, discipline, and humility.

And as always pray hard that you won't crash the ship but also steer clear of the rocks.

I am just blah blah blahing now and I am not too sure if I am even making sense!

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
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#89 of 165 Old 01-05-2010, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think this may have already been posted but just in case here it is again.

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
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#90 of 165 Old 01-05-2010, 05:34 PM
 
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Oh my gosh! That's the whole book??? Cool...

Leslie, open-hearted mama to 3.5 yr old dd and almost 1 yr ds
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