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Old 01-28-2011, 12:47 PM
 
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Perhaps I should start another thread. Weigh in on that, please! 

I appreciate the comments; what I am trying to say is more subtle than that I'm angry at the priest. Sure, that is upsetting enough, but what is REALLY troubling is that the archdiocese knew about this and kept him in our parish UNTIL HIS DEATH IN 2007. 7 years after 2000 when the crisis hit the media. That they knew about it and did not tell us about it when they should have corrodes my trust to almost nothing. It's not one priest that sinned and makes me want to run screaming, it's the fact that the archdiocese kept this and MANY others a secret. It's that they swept it under the rug; a big initiative started this past week in our archdiocese to invite Catholics "back home" with the idea being that we're a safe place again, that we're very open and new rules are in place to protect children. Well, that is really challenged by this recent information. I stayed there through the entire crisis believing in reform, and now this. THAT is what gets me.


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Old 01-28-2011, 02:39 PM
 
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Rosemary I highly suggest reading both Faithful Departed by Philip Lawler which is specifically about Boston and also Goodbye Good Men by Michael Rose both of which discuss what lead to the sex abuse scandals.

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Old 01-29-2011, 03:16 PM
 
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Thank you for the books, I'm going to check them out right away.


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Old 01-29-2011, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't know what went so terribly wrong in the places where the hierarchy so deeply misunderstood and enabled predatory priests. I do know that my "liberal" bishop Joseph Gossman in North Carolina (until health concerns forced his retirement in 2006) had in place a strict policy of removing any priest accused of abuse from pastoral work until cleared. ....from the 1980's on.

 

While not entirely free from the scandal, that diocese was much less affected.

 

(Here's a news article from 2002 http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/102190/ ).

 

I don't think its a liberal vs. conservative, gay v. straight thing. I think that people in power need checks on that power and transparency in their dealings.

 

We (the Church) must continue to insist that we treat each other with dignity and respect, and teach our children to insist on it. We should be nurturing the sons of the Church who lead our parishes, remembering their needs for friendship, care and loyalty when they are in our service.

 

Rosemary, I am so sorry that the scandal touched your church. I'll keep you in my prayers.

 

ETA: Another issue with the "liberals caused the priest scandal" theory is that the Irish church has been found to have been riddled with troubles since the 1930's or 40's. Just this month, a 1997 letter was released through the RTE from the Vatican to Irish bishops telling them if they reported offending priests to the police, their canonical punishments could be overturned by Rome. (Warning, could be triggering) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110118/ap_on_re_eu/eu_ireland_catholic_abuse

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Old 01-31-2011, 01:25 AM
 
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Rosemary--

 

I attended Catholic high school and have been functionally Catholic since about age 15 but didn't get confirmed or officially join the church until I was 25 because it took me that long to come to terms with the inherent human failings present in the church. (As I see it, the church is run by people and regardless of all other factors, people, even people running the church, mess up.)

 

I've been trying to write a post on this subject that isn't on the inflammatory side and failing. (I do have a fairly long commentary that I decided would be a bad idea.) I have very strong feelings about the IMHO corrupt behavior on the part of many of the people in the upper levels of the church hierarchy related to this matter.

 

I will say that while I have absolutely no faith or confidence in the upper levels of the church hierarchy, I do believe that there is a lot of good in the church overall especially at the parish level and often at the diocesean level--I wouldn't still be Catholic if I believed otherwise. The parish priests that I have had the chance to know well have all been wonderful people. My compromise with the matter is that I don't financially support the church--at all. I do donate time to my parish, but until the hierarchy--from the Vatican on down--demonstrates an understanding of the actual problem and a willingness to put the innocent victims ahead of the abusers (who happen to be priests), I will not be giving money.


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Old 01-31-2011, 07:55 AM
 
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Laura-Belle, I have come to that as well (financial.) In my recent anger, I have voiced the thought that the Catholics-come-home appeal in our diocese right now is financially driven. I don't think that is entirely correct (now that I have been calming down) but I don't think it is entirely false, either. I have given $15-$20 a week and sometimes more to our parish, and was about to sign up for parish pay when this happened. I threw away the form because I can't justify financing this right now. I currently sponsor a child, and should probably add another or pray about where to place the charity (too tempting to pocket it. Must act quickly.)

I ordered that one book, "The Faithful Departed" and it's on its way.


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Old 01-31-2011, 07:57 AM
 
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CH Friend, I haven't really heard the liberals-caused-the-scandal idea before. Does it mean that the offending priests were liberals, or did it mean that the "liberal media" outed the church? Explain?


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Old 01-31-2011, 08:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RosemaryS-F View Post

CH Friend, I haven't really heard the liberals-caused-the-scandal idea before. Does it mean that the offending priests were liberals, or did it mean that the "liberal media" outed the church? Explain?


I think it refers to something different altogether.

Read the Amazon reviews for Goodbye Good Men by Michael Rose and some of the comments posted. In a nutshell, it says that liberal seminaries have tolerated and encouraged sinful behavior, especially being accepting of homosexuality and being sexually active outside of marriage, and that that has led to the toleration of pedophilia.

Here's the description of the book from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Goodbye-Good-Men-Liberals-Corruption/dp/0895261448
Quote:
As the controversy surrounding the Catholic Church deepens, many people are asking: How could this have happened? In a new book, Goodbye, Good Men, author Michael Rose presents shocking evidence that the root of the problem extends down to the very place where vocations to the priesthood germinate: the seminary. Rose, who over the course of two years interviewed some 125 seminarians representing fifty dioceses and twenty-two major seminaries, has uncovered a profound spiritual problem inside the seminaries and a sickness of untold proportions.

Goodbye, Good Men: How Liberals Brought Corruption into the Catholic Church exposes the deliberate infiltration by those who wish to change the doctrines, disciplines and mission of the Catholic Church. This radical subculture and its liberal mindset-one that accepts homosexuality and sexual promiscuity in many seminaries-threatens the future of the Catholic Church.

The gay subculture is so prominent at certain seminaries that they have earned nicknames such as: "Pink Palace" (St. Mary's Seminary in Baltimore), "Notre Flame" (Notre Dame Seminary in New Orleans), and "Theological Closet" (Theological College at the Catholic University of America in Washington, DC). At these and several other seminaries, Rose found shocking examples of how, time and time again, chaste heterosexual seminarians are dismissed as unfit for the priesthood, while promiscuous homosexuals, and even those who have harassed, molested, or even raped other seminarians, are protected or promoted.

For anyone who has asked how pedophiles or predatory homosexual priests could possibly have been tolerated-here is the answer, in the most explosive book on the Catholic Church in a generation.

Any argument that links homosexuality and pedophilia is majorly flawed, imo. eyesroll.gif That's a whole 'nother thread and I am hoping to find this book somehow because I am interested in how the author makes this argument stand.

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Old 01-31-2011, 02:17 PM
 
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This isn't the place to debate the books, especially since I think I'm the only person posting in this thread that has actually read them, so I will just point out that it's not specifically about  pedophilia, the vast majority of the abuse cases involved pederasty not pedophilia. I personally know a few men that were victims of pederasty but not by priests or anyone in the Church. If you haven't read it the John Jay report is a good source

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Old 01-31-2011, 06:34 PM
 
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This isn't the place to debate the books, especially since I think I'm the only person posting in this thread that has actually read them, so I will just point out that it's not specifically about  pedophilia, the vast majority of the abuse cases involved pederasty not pedophilia. I personally know a few men that were victims of pederasty but not by priests or anyone in the Church. If you haven't read it the John Jay report is a good source


Thanks for posting that, I'm definitely going to read through that carefully. I'm surprised that my local library has a copy of the book - their religion section is usually not that deep on Catholic issues-, so it's on request smile.gif

I'm not seeing that in the numbers from the John Jay report. The majority of the cases of abuse cited here were involving kids 13 and under (and very definitely illegal given that age group), so pre-pubescent/pre-adolescent victims (as in the definition of pedophilia), not adolescent victims (definition of pederasty) . I'm looking at http://www.usccb.org/nrb/johnjaystudy/incident3.pdf page 2. Or is that stat from the book?

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Old 02-03-2011, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We are having a supersweet week...We're hosting a candle rolling event on Friday. It's been a wonderful time of honoring St. Brigid, who so beautifully holds for me the values of learning and hospitality. Her warm welcome of the friend and stranger alike is such a blessed lesson for me. Her authority and renowned gentleness inspire me.

 

What's inspiring you this week?

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Old 02-03-2011, 01:54 PM
 
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St. Theresa of Avila- Saint, Mystic and Doctor of the Church


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Old 02-03-2011, 06:23 PM
 
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We are having a supersweet week...We're hosting a candle rolling event on Friday. It's been a wonderful time of honoring St. Brigid, who so beautifully holds for me the values of learning and hospitality. Her warm welcome of the friend and stranger alike is such a blessed lesson for me. Her authority and renowned gentleness inspire me.

 

What's inspiring you this week?


You are!  B and I are brainstorming ways to implement a hospitality ministry in our parish.  (This is the first phase of our Amazing God plan.)   I think I will start looking to St. Brigid for some guidance!


I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. 

 Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi 

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Old 02-07-2011, 07:07 AM
 
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lol.gif Omigosh.

 

B's sister sent me Magnificat prayer booklets in November, for Advent ... and I promptly misplaced them.  Throughout Advent I lamented the fact that I did not have them!

 

I just found them ... right on my bookshelf with all of my prayer & reflection materials. duh.gif  Thankfully, she sent me the Lenten booklet, too.


I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. 

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Old 02-07-2011, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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so funny! lent's late this year so you better be sure to put them in a safe place!! Continued sweetness during the strep infection with the youngest this week. Patience & Love...we have a retreat house near us named for Teresa of Avila.  How does she most inspire you?

 

One of the things that is most delightful about being Catholic is the preservation of the stories of those who have lived before us and left beautiful examples of holy human-ness.

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Old 02-08-2011, 01:12 PM
 
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Patience & Love...we have a retreat house near us named for Teresa of Avila.  How does she most inspire you?



Many things. Mostly the fact that she didn't bow to secular authorities, saw the "sorority house" mentality happening in her order and straightening it up, her reluctant mysticism, and her humbleness.


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Old 07-07-2011, 09:39 PM
 
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Bumping this thread to renew it....

 

Anyone else want to pick up on sharing people who inspire us? I'll share. Oscar Romero http://www.uscatholic.org/oscar_romero . What can I say, I'm a sucker for social justice types!


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Old 07-09-2011, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi all! We're still kicking. It's been one heck of a good year. Been having some close chats with St. Michael the ArchAngel!

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Old 07-12-2011, 04:24 PM
 
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It's been a challenging year for me.  I could use some prayer for purpose and direction.


I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. 

 Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi 

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Old 07-13-2011, 04:57 PM
 
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It's been a challenging year for me.  I could use some prayer for purpose and direction.



I will pray for you Trigger...

 


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Old 07-20-2011, 05:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Praying for Trigger....

 

I was distracted when I posted. It has been a year full of blessings....but very challenging extended family wise.... and on both sides.

 

More than I can pour out on a message board, I'm thinking. Right now I can use prayers for encouragement and safety.

 

We are going to homeschool catechesis this year. I have a 10 year old (5th grade; made her first Reconciliation and Eucharist this year) and a 7 year old with selective mutism who will do her firsts this year if we can figure out Reconciliation without becoming unable to speak.

 

I'd love recommendations of catechesis materials for these ages!

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Old 07-25-2011, 01:21 PM
 
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Hi there!

 

We homeschooled for RE last year (after doing K-3 in our parish classes) for several reasons. My ODD has sensory processing disorder, and we live 30-45min from our church (depending on the time of day), so it was really taking a toll on her to go to school all day, be pickedup at 3:30, rushed home to use the bathroom and grab a snack, then back ino the car for a 45min drive to RE. By the time she got there she was pretty fried, and often she would melt down in class. Not good for her, the catechist, or her classmates. To be fair to her, we hadn't started OT for her yet (she hadn't been "officially" dx'd). When I spoke with our Director fo RE and explained the situation he agreed to let us HS her, since it wasn't a sacramental year for her. He said our diocese actively discourages HSing for RE but ultimately it is at the parish RE Director's discretion, and he knows us well enough to know she would actually not only be taught the things she was supposed to learn, but that she would pray with us, read the Bible, do the projects, etc.

 

He gave me a Teacher's Edition of the book her class was using, and I submitted her "portfolio" at the end of the year (she was already halfway through). We use the Call to Faith Series at our parish: http://www.mycatholicbookstore.com/DisplayProduct.aspx?ProductID=CU1373. For fourth grade I thought it was a little babyish, but it has a Nihil Obstat designation and I liked that it introduced Social Justice issues.

 

That was our first year of HS for RE, so that's all the input I can give regarding materials, other than to say that taking a friend's suggestion to get Magnifikid http://www.magnificat.com/magnifikid/index.asp for our girls has made a big difference in how they approach Mass, and it has helped them behave better at Mass too. We are going to stay with our parish's program materials, because in sacramental years they will need to rejoin their age-level in class and it will make that transition easier.

 

One thing I will say about HSing RE is this: it has brought me closer to my girls on a spiritual level that I had not expected. I'm finding we're praying together more often, we're discussing theology more often, and I'm getting a good refresher in catechism myself. We're all looking forward to it next year, although Brigid (my 5yo) has asked to go to class "because then I don't have to go to Mass!" duh.gif

 

HTH!


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Old 07-25-2011, 06:03 PM
 
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I highly recommend Catechist magazine as a teaching tool and a valuable resource.  I used it all the time when I was teaching 5th grade faith formation.

 

My parish uses the Call to Faith series.  I don't like the workbook teaching model to begin with, and found them a bit "young" and kind of dumbed-down, but our other catechists like them.  When I taught 5th grade, and then when I was a youth minister, I used a variety of teaching materials and activities - there are a ton of great materials out there for Catholic faith formation!

 

I will try to dig up some publisher's websites for you.


I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. 

 Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi 

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Old 07-28-2011, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That Magnifikid looks fantastic! I'm going to poke around there a bit. I'll check out Call to Faith, maybe with hands-on supplements. My 10 year old is doing a bible study with dp...the name is escaping me right now....

 

We homeschooled RE until a couple of years ago.

 

I'd love any more tips y'all have for sacremental prep especially. My 7 year old has selective mutism, so we're not clear whether she can manage the Reconciliation this year.....

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Old 07-30-2011, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm headed off on a trip to pick up some couches from my mom today. I'm taking my 10 year old. The younger one is staying home with dp since she's been sick with a cold and fevers this week. I went up for a night when my dad was dying, but this is the first time ever I've taken just one of them on a trip.

 

She's over the moon excited!

 

Please prayer for safe travels for us and for peace and ease with my family.

 

Please pray for dp's family that is going through an awful time (honestly, too much to share in a public forum). But good solid prayer needed here.

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Old 08-01-2011, 11:31 AM
 
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Have a safe trip, chfriend.  Praying for you and your dp.


I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. 

 Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi 

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Old 08-01-2011, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Made it back. Tons and tons of traffic! Thank you all for your prayers.

 

My older one was so delighted to take communion with grandma and my sister! First time in a church beside our home parish.. She felt so good!

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Old 08-28-2011, 09:08 PM
 
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We had a really wonderful Mass this morning.  Because of Hurricane Irene, and multiple advisories to stay off the roads if possible, a lot of churches cancelled services this morning.  Our parish decided to squeeze in the 8:30 AM service before things really kicked up, so B and I braved the rain to go.  I'm so glad we did.

 

There were not a lot of people there (maybe 40), so at the Liturgy of the Eucharist Fr. David invited everyone to come up on the Altar and surround it.  After the consecration, he and the EMs went down into the center aisle and faced the Altar, then he had us process from the Altar to receive Eucharist.

 

It was so intimate and lovely, a very special communion. I was having a lot of anxiety about what the storm would bring, so it was nice to spend some time feeling safe and secure inside the big stone church, reminding myself that God is in charge of it all.  We couldn't even hear the wind and rain.


I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. 

 Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi 

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Old 08-28-2011, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Mass was lovely here too! Irene hit us on Saturday, so it was hot and steamy today. Homily on the new missal...I love our priest..He celebrated his Jubilee last year, so wonderful to have his perspective on the Mass not changing, just the Missal. Beautiful music...I love Lead Kindly Light.then the annual ministry fairy.

 

I love how at home my children are after church, how much they "own" it.

 

When I was growing up, at daily Mass, Fr. Tom would sometimes have everyone surround the altar when attendence was sparse. So very moving to be right there.

 

So glad you could feel the Comforter close.

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Old 09-04-2011, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That's hilarious...I just came back to this thread to post and saw that I said "ministry fairy"....That's ministry *fair*....no fairies were sighted!

 

My kid got the first sample of Magnifikid in the mail this week. We love it! Thanks for the suggestion upthread.

 

Happy 23rd Sunday in Ordinary Time to you all.

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