Bothered by pro-choice comm.s? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 210 Old 06-05-2002, 09:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm just wondering if anyone else is bothered by the pro-choice commercials that have been airing on t.v. lately? They are the ones that depict a female diver on the diving board or a woman in the dr.s office saying, "It's my body, shouldn't it be my choice?"

I'm curious to know what others here in the boards think or feel about them. Do you like them, are offended by them? If so why?


I posted under TAO but I would be more curious to see how others here in the spirituality boards feel and I feel a little more open to share my own personal opinion.

I am very open to hearing others opinions even those who contradict my own. Just for the record I think that abortions for the purposes of rape or incest should be prayerfully considered and allowed if needs be or for the mother's health but other than that I feel like it's the woman's choice to choose not to get into that situation in the first place. That's where the choice lies not in the after-the-fact consequences of having conceived a child. An abortion never is just the woman's choice in my opinion, the woman is affecting so many people's lives other than her own. Yes it's her body but it took two to conceive and a third on the way whose life is ultimately affected. It's hard for me to understand why more people don't see the importance of not being sexually active until you're married and when a child comes along that is unexpected to have it and if it really is a child that you think you can't care for to think of adoption as the best choice. We have 2 wonderful, beautiful nephews and I have 1 cousin who were all adopted. We are so grateful to have them in our families and for the courage that it took for their birth mothers to place them in the arms of a family who could give them both mother and father.

Anyway, I'm pretty long winded. But it seriously disturbs me to see these pro-choice commercials, particularly the one with the mother-daughter combo. They make it seem so "right" that it's totally a woman's choice and has no affect or consequence on others. I would very much like to become involved in pro-life campaigning to get some better images out there of pro-lifers other than the radical images that are sometimes portrayed by a very liberal media.

Hope noone's offended, it's not my intent.
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#2 of 210 Old 06-05-2002, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for being so honest. I think we agree on this issue. Again, I want everyone else to know that I will not "flame" you for having a different opinion if you have one. It's not my intention to argue but to share.
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#3 of 210 Old 06-05-2002, 10:30 PM
 
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Drewsmom, sounds like you're
"Pro-choice before conception,
Pro-life after"
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#4 of 210 Old 06-05-2002, 11:01 PM
 
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This is only my belief, however, I just don't see how it is a choice. When I was an unwed teen I never felt like it was a choice. I felt like I chose to have sex and I chose to not use birth control but did my baby choose to be conceived? Would he choose to die? No. Sometimes it sounds as if you're choosing between a fish sandwich and a burger. The real choice, IMO, should be BEFORE you commit the act. That's when the choice comes into play.

I remember thinking on the day that my oldest baby was born how I was going to make things OK for us. It wasn't his fault that he was born to a mom that was way too young and a dad that took off long before his birth. I worked my rear end off and made it work. And guess what, I CHOSE to not get pregnant again until I knew I was ready.

No, I don't think they should have these commercials on TV. I don't think that impressionable kids should even know that there is a "way out". Kids (and adults) should know that their decisions affect their lives. And, IMO, their deaths too.

Again, only my opinion. I live with a "pro choicer", my dh. We don't pull eachother's hair out trying to win eachother over. I don't accept his view but I live with it. Not that he knows what it's like to be in that position, anyway! But that's enough talking for me!

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#5 of 210 Old 06-05-2002, 11:31 PM
 
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I am pro-choice, but it saddens me to see this commericals. I see it as an intensely personal decision that really does not need to be legislated or medicalized.

I have some major issues with the Reproductive Rights Movement in the United States and these commercials just seem to emphasize so many of my issues.... where are the commercials about FAS or FAE? Where are the public service announcements about how to care for your child when you are poor and ill-prepared to be a parent? Where are the commericals on the history of forced sterilization?

Sorry to rant... I don't want to hijack.
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#6 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 12:55 AM
 
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Ekblad6, your first paragraph echos my feelings exactly. I'm not anti-choice, but I've always felt that the choice was made when the decision to have sex was made. Birth control is never 100%, and imho, if we aren't ready to face the consequences of the act, we shouldn't be participating in the act, if you get my drift. I agree with NM (although it may be on the other thread) that RvW is a long way from being overturned. Sadly (again, mho) I don't see that happening.

I am a bit confused that their are commercials reminding women that they have a legal right to an abortion. Seems like a waste of money to me. I personally wish we would see more advertisements (print, tv, etc) showing adoption as an alternative. Dave Thomas (of Wendy's restaurants) was on bilboards a couple of years ago for the adoption cause, but I haven't seen anything since then.
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#7 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 02:46 AM
 
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I haven't seen the commercials, but I don't have a problem with the concept of them. I am pro-choice and believe that first trimester abortions are entirely ethical.

I will even go so far as to say that there are times when a first trimester abortion is more ethical than bringing another child into the world. I am very concerned about the environment and the future of this planet and the people on it, and believe that one of the many things that will help is if we are able to slow down the population growth. I am bringing this up because this thread has been posted underspirituality and so far has only been addressed from a Christian perspective. My fear of overpopulation is strongly tied in with my own personal earth-loving spirituality so I thought I'd share this perspective.

I also want to remind people that teenagers aren't the only ones having to make the choice. I had to make the choice at 31 while happily married after we already had two children. We chose to have two biological children and are extremely happy we did, but we have many reasons, including but not limited to the overpopulation issue, not to have more. Our birth control failed us, and we made the choice to have an abortion. The experience itself was awful and I wish I hadn't had to go through it, but still I do not regret it.

About the sex thing. Are you saying that the only options are abstinance or sex with the possibility of a baby? Would you have married couples with children who don't want to have more children not having sex? What about a couple, like my aunt and uncle, where my aunt grew progressively more blind with each pregnancy. Should they not have had sex? How many marriages would last without sex? Actually, I'm lucky in that I think mine probably would, but I am sure that many wouldn't.
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#8 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 02:51 AM
 
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I am pro choice- there are enough unwanted children in the world, without more being born because a woman doesn't have the choice to terminate the pregnancy. Yes, they should have thought about this at the time of conception, but having a child should not be thought of as a punishment for not having used protection. This issue is close to my heart right now, as one of my best friends is pregnant (as some of you may know from a post on another board) and wants to have an abortion. I am actually urging her to have the baby as I think she would be a great mother, but it is her choice.

Ok, a bit OT. I agree commercials for this are over the top.
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#9 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 05:09 AM
 
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we aren't supposed to discuss abortion on Mothering magazine boards

hello moderators
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#10 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 09:54 AM
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Please read this thread: http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...&threadid=5632

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#11 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 10:59 AM
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On a related note how do you feel about the Planned Parenthood ads that depict women in developing nations suffering from childbearing.

You are treated to miserable women. Miserable because they have "too many children".

Or dying in labor because they don't have enough medical care.

I get equaly upset by these ads because women in developing nations fare better when they practice things like ecological breastfeeding and more traditional midwifery care.

I think the more appropriate model would be a mutual respect between the indiginous culture and western medicine.

Encouraging ecological breastfeeding and fertility awareness to space children.

Giving most prenatal care to traditional midwifes with a screening process (done by the midwives) to identify at-risk mothers so they could get the (expensive and not widely available) ob/gyn interventionist care.

Just wondering how others feel about *those* ads.

I take them as "Children are bad" "Children oppress women" type messages that is (IMHO) evil.

Debra Baker
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#12 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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ekblad I was touched by your post, thank you for sharing that. Thank you to everyone for sharing your thoughts and feelings, I know that it's a sensitive topic and was not aware of the past heated debate that Cynthia Mosher referred to.

I should mention one other thing and that will be the last. I personally am bothered as I stated before by the commercials because I think it commercializes abortions w/out as others have said fully disclosing the repercussions to both the woman health wise and emotionally speaking. I would like to mention that both of my nephews who are beautiful, wonderful little boys were both adopted from mothers who had one child already with their partners (the same man in both cases) and who felt like they were not able to give their child a good home or provide for them as they would like. I think this will be difficult for the boys as they grow older but they were also the answer to many prayers and longing and heartache from my sil and bil. We are so proud and happy to have them in our family. Ulitimately it will be up to each of them individually to either accept the loving opportunity that they've been given of having a family and certain priviledges that they woudln't have had or to choose to become bitter and angry with their birth mothers for giving them up. But ultimately the choice will be theirs to make and that's the beauty of it for me, we don't always know or expect certain outcomes to our choices but terrible, and difficult situations can be turned into wonderful things.

As far as the overpopulation issue I think it's not so much an issue of overcrowding. I don't agree with that line of thought religiously speaking but also respectfully speaking. The best way I can explain why I feel the way I do is you can have 4-10 earthloving, environmentally friendly, children restoring the environment than 1 wasteful, destroying person. I don't know if that makes sense but for me it's not so much about the numbers as it is in treating our environment with respect and helping it to regenerate.

Oh, something that I was concerned about was finding a pro-life activist organization that I could find some more information and get involved with (which is why I brought this up in the first place actually). I did find one that seems to be very informative and not so extreme as some of the others it is the American Life League http:///www.all.org It gave very good links to understanding the ins and outs of bill making and how to talk to your representatives which is what I'm really interested in now that we're so close to D.C. Just wanted to reference that for anyone else who had the same concerns.

Thanks for responding!
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#13 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 12:15 PM
 
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If there really is a campaign afoot to overturn Roe Vs. Wade and make abortion illegal again, then I am all for these kinds of commercials.

If liberals are just making us all paranoid for nothing, then commercializing abortion totally dehumanizes the issue and I find it offensive.

It just depends on the intent, you know?

I supprot first trimester abortion, particularly in the first 8 weeks. Most of all, I wish more women were comfortable using morning after pills or the RU4-86 pill treatment so that they can avoid pregnancy altogether (or end it at the embryonic stage). I support this kind of early termination because I think it enables women to have the final say in the reproductive process. I it is dangerous to deny women any choices when they are exposed to a possible unwanted pregnancy. A baby is not a punishment for ignorance, carelessness, or rape.

OTOH, I do not think the baby should be punished either, and that is why second trimester abortion bothers me. I think there is a point when a bundle of cellular potential starts turning into a baby, and it is, well, just different. Partial birth abortions make me want to vomit.

Anyway, I am NOT judging anyone or their own situation. We all have to walk in someone else's shoes to really understand what they are dealing with. It is easy to say what we would do but the truth is, I have not been there, and can't tell anyone else what was best for them.

respectfully,

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Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#14 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 12:18 PM
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I am afraid of the commercials as I wonder if they will only serve to add more fuel to the anti-choice fire.
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#15 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 12:50 PM
 
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I am afraid of the commercials as I wonder if they will only serve to add more fuel to the anti-choice fire.
Yes Mamapie, I totally agree. I can't stand when I see things on the news about an abortion dr. who was killed b/c of his profession. I don't know what some people are thinking. I think that a lot of people forget what it was like when abortion was illegal. The fact is that women are going to do it regardless and I think it should be a choice not a law. The law issue doesn't work, as we've seen. I posted something on the TOA thread about a pro-life campaign that really made me feel sick. (I think that every side should be able to voice their opinions by the way) I don't know which org. was responsible for it but they were putting pictures of aborted fetuses on billboards, 18-wheelers etc. I think that they took it WAY over the limit.

That said, I don't like the ads on either side, it's a personal issue and those ads can be really insensitive to both sides of the coin.
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#16 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 01:03 PM
 
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I'm confused. First let me say that I'm new to the new format. I remember quite a few nasty discussions on the old boards. Not about abortion, but about adoption. That is the reason I left the first time.

I read the link about abortion being off topic here and honestly I don't think that what is ok and not ok to be discussed is clear. At least it's not clear to me. And the link didn't help. So, would someone please help me out before I put my foot in my mouth.

About the commerical, I haven't seen it so it's hard for me to comment on it. But I have some things I'd like to say about some of the comments posted. But I will wait to hear what is acceptable before I possibly open mouth, insert foot.

Thanks in advance to whoever answers my Q's
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#17 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 01:56 PM
 
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As far as the overpopulation issue I think it's not so much an issue of overcrowding. I don't agree with that line of thought religiously speaking but also respectfully speaking. The best way I can explain why I feel the way I do is you can have 4-10 earthloving, environmentally friendly, children restoring the environment than 1 wasteful, destroying person. I don't know if that makes sense but for me it's not so much about the numbers as it is in treating our environment with respect and helping it to regenerate.
Since I was the one who brought this up, I'll respond. My dh, two children, and I are "earthloving" and "environmentally-friendly." We avoid driving as much as possible, use cloth diapers, do what we can to avoid excess packaging, buy what we can used, use bio-friendly cleaning products, eat organic where possible, recycle, compost, conseve on heating, water, etc. etc. And yet we still have to drive, using up precious resources and sending more into the air, despite all our efforts, we still have a large bag of garbage to throw away each week, we still have to make some concessions because occasionally we can't afford a necessity in a less earth-harming state, much of the organic food we purchase is still trucked around the country in gas-guzzling vehicles, we're not always perfect, etc. etc.

I know there are some who manage to do better than us, but it is extremely rare in a Western country like ours, especially like ours (USA). And even if someone does manage to use only sustainable resources and create no waste, how can he or she make sure that all his or her children, grandchildren, etc. continue in his or her footsteps? Most children will take their own paths.

I believe that slowing down the population growth is only one factor in saving this planet for our descendents' use, but it is one that I can personally participate in. Our two children will take my husband's and my places and no more. Some would ask why we had any at all, and I can respect that, but I still do believe that having and raising children is one of the greatest joys in life.

If you are interested in seeing how much effect just one more earthloving, environmentally-friendly person has on this planet, you might want to look at your ecological footprint:
http://www.rprogress.org/programs/sustainability/ef/ecological footpring
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#18 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 02:18 PM
 
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"...I don't know which org. was responsible for it but they were putting pictures of aborted fetuses on billboards, 18-wheelers etc. I think that they took it WAY over the limit."

Aw, c'mon! If the reality isn't offensive then why should the pictures be? Didn't we have a discussion a while back about why we wanted Newsweek to publish honest photos about the violence in the middle East?


As for the comemrcialization of the topic, well, abortion is big business. I've even seen one clinic ad in the Yellow Pages that shows a skinny young woman lacing up her runnung sneakers. Wanna stay thin 'n trim? Get an abortion! Carol Everett, former abortion clinic owner, wrote a book about the industry called "Blood Money:Getting Rich off a Woman's Right to Choose" which exposed the horrible exploitation of women for the sake of a quick 200, 300, or 400 bucks.
(The above information has no relevance to the life/choice debate but no one should be surprised that the issue is being commercialized and the service is being advertized. THere's a s**tload of dough at stake. )
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#19 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 02:24 PM
 
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Originally posted by hydrangea
I believe that slowing down the population growth is only one factor in saving this planet for our descendents' use, but it is one that I can personally participate in. Our two children will take my husband's and my places and no more. Some would ask why we had any at all, and I can respect that, but I still do believe that having and raising children is one of the greatest joys in life.
I completely agree with this, which is why I only have one child. My ecological footprint is not as small as it could be, or should be (thanks, hydrangea, for posting that link!), but I firmly believe that the Earth isn't able to support the population we have now, especially with our wasteful culture. My spiritual beliefs include respecting the Earth and living in harmony with the environment. For me to have an additional child would throw my family's environmental balance off, and that is why I choose to use birth control.

I am pro-choice which, IMO, means that I make choices for myself about whether I reproduce, how often, etc. The commercials don't offend me nearly as much as the thought of RvW being repealed.

April
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#20 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 02:49 PM
 
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I haven't seen the ads, but I am pro-choice.

I wish there didn't need to be ad campaigns about abortion at all, either pro-choice or opposing reproductive freedom. In my opinion, the decision about whether to carry or terminate a pregnancy needs to lie with the pregnant woman herself, and only with her.

The validity of moral arguments about when life begins etc... depend on each individual woman's own spiritual beliefs and personal situation. There is no universal moral absolute here. If there were, we wouldn't still be arguing about it.

Personally, I find it deeply disturbing that my own body is so politicized by arguments about abortion. I want the right to make my own decsions as I see fit, espeicially since to me, self-determination is a fundamental aspect of spirituality.

In my opinion, the fight over abortion is similar to prohibition in that it is an attempt to encode what is essentially a religious opinion as U.S. Law. Abortion should be a matter between a woman, her doctor and her loved ones. It is simply abusive to make this intensly personal decision into a public battleground. Abortion should be treated like any other medical procedure. Any laws that either generally ban or generally promote abortion will inevitably lead to individual attrocities.

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#21 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 04:18 PM
 
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Hydrangea - I'm not sure what your post has to do with abortion or pro choice commercials. I think it's great that you decided to have two children. Since that is the case and you know for sure then I would think some kind of permanant birth control would be used by yourself and/or your SO. I think there's a thread somewhere talking about large families and how they destroy the environment. However, this thread isn't it. While you are more than entitled to your opinion of large vs. small families I would just prefer that we stick to one volitile topic on this thread! Thanks!

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#22 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 05:57 PM
 
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Drewsmom, you stated my feelings far more eloquently than I could have...

Ekblad, your previous post was my thoughts exactly! Thankyou for sharing your story, too-- it was beautiful.

Super Pickle, I like your Pro-choice/pro-life analogy...

IMO, the commercials are WAY out of line... far too emotional of an issue to commercialize. I am surprised that I haven't seen them here in CA with this being such a big issue between the candidates


:
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#23 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 06:40 PM
 
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Originally posted by ekblad6
Hydrangea - I'm not sure what your post has to do with abortion or pro choice commercials. I think it's great that you decided to have two children. Since that is the case and you know for sure then I would think some kind of permanant birth control would be used by yourself and/or your SO. I think there's a thread somewhere talking about large families and how they destroy the environment. However, this thread isn't it. While you are more than entitled to your opinion of large vs. small families I would just prefer that we stick to one volitile topic on this thread! Thanks!
Sorry. I first brought that up as an aside to how I felt about the ads because it is intwined in my belief that abortion is ethical, someone responded to that aside, and I responded back.

You're right though, it is off topic and adds more fire to an already volatile discussion. I will take it elsewhere, but I confess to being frustrated that first you made a somewhat loaded comment about my birth control choices and then you asked me not to talk about this here so now I can't respond publicly to your comment? :
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#24 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 06:52 PM
 
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I'm sorry if I offended your birth control choices. I don't recall doing so but if I did, I'm very sorry. This thread has been somewhat peaceful so far and should probably be kept that way or it will probably be shut down. Thanks for taking your family size and the environment issues elsewhere. I do appreciate it.

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#25 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 07:50 PM
 
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As far as commercials- I personally get really uneasy when I see a health related one, whether it is talking about formula how it is as good as bm now with the added chemicals, the new vaccines promoting the saved time away from work that parents will benefit from when they get their child the cpox shot, how 'good' parents spray their kids all over with OFF to prevent misquito bites, or the ones that promote early early education headstart programs (like single inner city moms can't mother w/o a guide) Whatever the issue, if I se a TV commercial about something like that I am sure that the big money behind it is pushing something that people don't really need or even think they want it till they have seen it on TV all glossy and slick (yes even abortion) SOMEONE is making some money off a woman in need and leading them to believe it was their 'choice', Abortion and all women's health related issues are big money. Look at the hysterectomy rates and the man at the top pushing the hormone replacement pills. However- I would love to see the TV commercial with a toddler and the nurse with a tray of shots having the small child say "It's My body, shouldn't be my choice".
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#26 of 210 Old 06-06-2002, 11:31 PM
 
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Since I had neither seen nor heard of the ads I thought I would go to NARAL's website and see what they had to say....for those interested in seeing what the ads actually say and the reasoning behind the ad campaignyou can go to this website:

http://www.naral.org/cfa/index.html

the text of the actual TV ads can be found here:

http://www.naral.org/cfa/ads.html

While I do agree that NARAL's ads touch on a very personal issue, I also believe that given the rightist leanings of both the administration and the Supreme Court they are in a position where they feel RvW may really be threatened. The abortion issue is the most politicized issue of our time....I agree with AmyB that it should be taken out of that realm and placed where it belongs: with a woman, her loved ones if she chooses, and her doctor.
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#27 of 210 Old 06-07-2002, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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That's why I'm interested in becoming involved with pro-life organizations b/c if they're going to do commercials like this I want well made, effective (not radical) and to the point commercials to counter balance them. I totally agree NM that they have the right to buy air time, it's part of a democracy and our freedom of speech. I guess that's why I'd like to see other commercials to balance out those being produced by NARAL. I will have to go to that link that Deirdre posted, thanks for referencing it, to get some more information from NARAL's standpoint.
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#28 of 210 Old 06-07-2002, 12:38 AM
 
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Drewsmom, check out the websites for Shake the Nation and Feminists for Life.

www.shakethenation.org
and
www.feministsforlife.org
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#29 of 210 Old 06-07-2002, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks SuperPickle for those links, very helpful! I haven't looked at them indepth yet but I look forward to. I wasn't very impressed wtih NARAL's website and reasoning.
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#30 of 210 Old 06-07-2002, 10:51 AM
 
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Deirdre, thank you so much for posting the NARAL site.

Those ads are definitely pro-choice, not pro-abortion, as I was beginning to get the impression they might from some of the posts here. They are not commercializing abortion. They are reminding those who care that our very rights are precious and we have to keep our eye on them or they might disappear.
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