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#1 of 146 Old 07-01-2002, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, so I am now more pregnant than I have ever been. It is so frustrating to have no control or way to plan! I spent all day Saturday trying EVERYTHING to get things going to no avail. I finally just collapsed on my bed in tears and gave up. It is out of my hands. Since then, I've been fine, so I guess I needed that. I'm not good at waiting. My parents will be here tomorrow from Idaho. They have not been out here since we moved almost a year ago. I am very excited, so that takes some of my focus away from the baby.

Lisa, I want to add my deepest congrats to you. I was thinking about you the other day, and thinking how great it would be to hear that you got a baby. The next time I got on, there was your announcement! Better get sewing those cloth diapers! I hope everything works out. I know your anxiety must be 100X what mine is. I hope BF works out too. I wish I lived closer because I am a milk machine! I always have way too much.

I was wondering what you all do for FHE. I thought it might be cool to hear what you "actually" did for the last one. OUrs are usually pretty comical, so I thought it would be funny to hear some stories.
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#2 of 146 Old 07-01-2002, 02:44 PM
 
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Well, I first wanted to cogratulate Lisa. That's very exciting and nervous for you!

Next I wanted to share a little discussion I had on the way home last night--a couple of other moms and I went to the Sunday night broadcast of the Nauvoo Illinois dedication, and on the way home we talked about how devastating it would have been to be the father of your little 3 month old baby girl (Pres. Hinckley's grandfather, I guess) on the plains, but then we talked about "instant weaning" for the baby, and how hard that would be, and then I remembered that I had heard that the pioneer women wetnursed for each other--I've heard stories of "passing the baby." I don't know if they're true, but we all agreed that those maternal instincts don't stop at our own kids. I know it would be devastating to me if someone else died and there was a little baby with no milk for her . . . Anyhow, it was a cool (kidless) mom bonding time . . .

About FHE--well, when we can't get organized, we just pull out our Gospel Art kit and tell some stories while looking at the pictures. One of our more successful ones recently was the parable of the lost sheep. Dd #1 has a veritable "flock" (about 8 different lambs), and so our green couch was the field, and all the "flock" was distributed all over the couch (behind, under, etc.). Then our "shepherd" (baby doll) called for the sheep, and they all came back except one, and so the baby doll looked all over for the lamb, and eventually found it and brought it home. This was a couple of months ago, and the kids still talk about it, even dd #2, who is barely 2. I don't go for deep doctrinal discussions--perhaps I should make more of an effort, but they seem to love simple stories as much as anything. Of course we try to make a principle go with the story.
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#3 of 146 Old 07-01-2002, 07:12 PM
 
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Bekka- oh how creative. I chuckled as I read about your FHE. Those are the kind the kids will always remember.

About 9 months ago I got a neat idea of planning FHE every Monday. I typed up a paper with the theme, song, prayer, and story and assigned each to one of us (dh, Annie or me). I have LDS Clips software so I had cutesy, tootsy graphics on them and everything. I was so pumped. Well I was looking in the filing cabinet today and saw the folder where I keep all 2!!!! of the sheets I created. Yep that is right we did it for 2 weeks. AAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Now don't get me wrong we spend Monday nights together as a family and we don't do ward or church business that night but we are terrible about getting a "spiritual" lesson to the girls (or any lesson).

With that said we have planned to visit dh's paternal gramma tonight for FHE. FIL said that her health is failing. He doesn't expect she'll make her 90th birthday in October. She is a wonderful lady and we don't get to see her often enough although she only lives 20 minutes away.

One of our lessons for FHE last fall was Lehi and the Liahona. Dd#1 knows the story well cuz of Living Scriptures video so she told us most of the story.
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#4 of 146 Old 07-01-2002, 07:18 PM
 
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Hi LDS Moms again.

I'm posting over here, b/c I checked out the miscarriage thread and it's for people who are grieving the loss of pregnancy and/or children.

And I'm not. I'm miscarrying, though. It may take a week or two or several. I'm not interested at this time in ways to "hurry it along." Is something wrong with me? Should I be grieving?

All my respect to any of you who have lost a pregnancy and did grieve. I just wonder what is wrong with me.
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#5 of 146 Old 07-01-2002, 09:32 PM
 
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Bekka, I miscarried between Asher and Dylan, and at the time I felt totally blessed.We were sealed in the Temple the week before,Asher wasn't even one yet, i was SO sick all 10 weeks.That was my water birth, in the tub, really fast, just like a mini-birth.Shaun gave me a blessing, and I felt so great for 3 days- after being so sick for so long.I always felt so bad for moms when they miscarried, way worse than i ever did for my own.The whole experience was such a blessing, i treasure it as much as my other two births.I did have a hard time later on greiving a little cos I was expected to, so when i didn't, Ifelt guilty, so i'd think about it til it did make me sad. not having a baby 6 mo. later, little things,it was a process and I am grateful for the experience.

:::
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#6 of 146 Old 07-04-2002, 06:07 PM
 
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Bekka when I had a miscarriage, everybody around me was more upset than I was. I know that my little one went straight back to her HF, what's wrong with that? She chose a short time on earth and had no trials, heartaches, or illness.
I felt blessed to have carried her for 14 weeks before she came out at home in our tub. We kept pieces of her and buried her in our garden in the spring time.
What drove me crazy, is that people(not LDS)tried to council me on how I should properly grieve and handle a miscarriage. I couldn't have been further from grieving, just felt incredibly blessed, but they couldn't see that.
There's nothing wrong with the way you're feeling at all. In fact, I've talked to a lot of LDS women who've felt the exact same way. Maybe, it's just different for us since we know we'll be with our entire families again one day.
Blessings and love to you,
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#7 of 146 Old 07-04-2002, 07:08 PM
 
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Well, we have been back in town for a few days ago since meeting our baby's birthmother. It has to rank as one of the most stressful experiences of my entire life--I was so nervous that I have been physically ill with nausea and indigestion since last week. But, it was a very peaceful and calm experience once we got in there. It was nothing like I anticipated, but was still a beautiful experience, and we are developing so much love for her already. I don't think I will have ever experienced a relationship quite like what we will have with her. We are strangers, yet share such a sacred connection.

It still does not seem real, and I've spent many moments feeling like it will never really happen after all. It has been harder than I thought to let myself go and really feel joyful--I guess I am holding back in case anything goes wrong. But...I have so much to do to get ready! I started pumping yesterday, and that is quite the experience. I am already bored of it, but tell myself it's for a good cause so to just stick with it.

Today I went out and bought some cute girl clothes. I've had onesies and stuff, but need some fun things to take pictures in. (We will be sending tons of pics and letters to her birthmom.) Unfortunately, there's not much in the 0-3 month size, and I'm afraid this baby is going to be pretty tiny. Her birthmom is not very big and neither is her belly! We will have to stay in her state of birth for up to four weeks, so I am figuring not many gifts will pour in until we get home, so we need clothing for that short time period.

Other than that, we are really so ready. I'm glad I collected things all the way along, or I'd be pretty overwhelmed right now. I have been able to find a pediatrician who I have been told will work with me on vaxes, and I have a consultation with her next week. Other than that, it's just waiting. Luckily, she's due in only two weeks!

About miscarriages--I have not had one myself, but I know many, many LDS women who have because of some of the circles that I am part of. I think that there are many factors that affect how you deal with a m/c. I think that however you feel is right. For some women, it seems to not be that big a deal. I think it is affected by things like whether or not you already have other children, how long you ttc'd, your personality and how you handle life events in general, and in some cases, just the grace of God in either sparing you some of the sorrow, or allowing you to be subjected to it in order to teach you something. He knows what you need in your life at that point in order to learn and grow.

I have people close to me--good, faithful LDS women with strong testimonies--who have been completely devastated by a m/c. I am cautious about saying that a strong testimony and belief in eternal families will always protect us from feeling intense sorrow and loss. We're here on earth to experience pain as well as joy, and simple gospel understanding can't (and shouldn't) always erase that pain. Going through so many years childless, I have had people in the past imply that it shouldn't be such a big deal because of course, I can have children in the next life. But it is a big deal, and even though I believe that with all my heart and feel like I have a good understanding of this principle, this life is a long time, and this has hurt deeply. There have been many times when I've been very angry and grieved heavily over it.

I hope I haven't offended anyone with my comments. I say that if you experience a loss such as m/c and find that you are doing well with it--that is wonderful, normal, healthy, and you can count your blessings. Feelings can change at different times too, so Bekka don't be surprised if at some point you do experience some stronger feelings about it. You may or you may not.
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#8 of 146 Old 07-04-2002, 10:54 PM
 
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Bekka, I am relieved for you that at this point you are at peace with the m/c!! Just as in most situations in life, there is no "right" feelings....whatever you are feeling is right for you. I am sorry you are going through this, though. I have never had one and feel that if I did I would be very, very depressed. ....but then again, maybe I would be blessed to feel at peace about the whole thing. I think maybe situations like these are easier for us because we have an eternal perspective that is a comfort and we have the knowledge of Heavenly Father's great and powerful love for us and our children (his children). But people, like Lisa mentioned, still can feel very sad and depressed. Anyway, I don't know what I am trying to say exactly. Just let us know how it all goes for you.

Lisa, I am both very excited and nervous for you and your dh!!! What is the birthmother like? Or are you not allowed to talk about it very much? I really don't know very much about open adoptions like this. There was a girl in my ward growing up who got pregnant and made the decision to go through church social services to place her baby with an LDS family. Supposedly it all turned out very well and she was really happy, etc. I also went to high school with a girl who had a baby in like 8th or 9th (!!!) grade and placed the baby with a family through an open adoption and she felt sooooooo good about the whole thing and kept a picture of her baby on her key chain.
I was reading today in the vaccination forum and found a thread that listed the ingrediants of vaccines. Some of the vaccines contain cells from aborted babies!!!!! I had nooooooooo clue!!! And a lot of them contained cells from fetus of other animals. I wonder if vegatarians know about that......But anyway...I am SHOCKED!!!!! Yet another reason I don't feel good about vaxing. I had debated about wether or not I could, in good concious, sign the form that says you don't vax for religious reasons...now I would have no qualms about it if the vaccine contains cells from aborted babies!!!!!!!! I am just dumbfounded. What do you all think? What do you all do about vaxing?

Heidi : Married for 15 years, expecting our 8th baby in July!

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#9 of 146 Old 07-05-2002, 01:54 AM
 
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What is the birthmother like? Or are you not allowed to talk about it very much?

Yes, I'm allowed to talk about it, but to be honest, I have been finding that it feels better to keep most things very private. I didn't expect to feel this way--I thought I would be shouting everything from the rooftop. But our relationship with her is quite unique, it's like we're virtual strangers, yet close in a very sacred way. I'm finding myself feeling very protective of her and her privacy. Talking in too much detail about her feels like I'm breaking a deep confidence. And in the Church, it can get to be such a small world, you just never know when someone is going to know someone.

She's pretty young. She's on the quiet side, yet in talking and corresponding with her, I see a determination, strength, and maturity beyond her years. She loves her baby very much. She is very clear about what she wants for her baby, she has done a wonderful job of taking care of herself during pregnancy. She's intelligent and has goals for her future life. I think she has done alot of growing up in the last eight months--it's hard for me to imagine how she got to the point of being in the situation she's in, because that life just doesn't seem to be "her".

I'm nervous too! I have many worries that it won't happen after all, and I honestly don't know how I would make it through that. I have been feeling quite emotionally detached, and I think it's my way of protecting myself from disappointment. Yet I feel very confident that she will not change her mind. She seems very sure about it and seems to have thought it through extensively.
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#10 of 146 Old 07-05-2002, 05:58 PM
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Once again, I'm behind. *Sigh* Not enough hours in a day, and Jake is entering an extremely high demand mode. He screams with frustration when he wants something, I feel so bad for him. We work on signing, and he can do the bf sign, but resorts to screaming on anything else.

I'm soooo tired. I'm sooo overwhelmed.

I just wanted to pop in and read up but I had to comment, congrats Laurel, your last post moved me to tears, what respect and love you show the Birthmother. I think that is beautiful.

Jake is MAD right now, so I'm off....
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#11 of 146 Old 07-06-2002, 02:54 AM
 
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Laurel, your thoughts and relationship and love for the birth mother are awesome! You seem so together, in an emotionally healthy way. I always feel so much respect for girls who give their babies in adoption...what a hard decision and what a totally unselfish thing to do. And it makes the whole situation even sweeter with adoptive parents who understand and respect that whole process!! What a lucky babe.

Anyone have any thoughts on my earlier post about the vaxes? Maybe no one wants to discuss it? (it is an emotionally tough subject on many levels....) I just was really looking forward to hearing other LDS AP mom's points of views on the matter.... No one in the vaccination forum has responded to my post on the same subject either.....

Heidi : Married for 15 years, expecting our 8th baby in July!

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#12 of 146 Old 07-06-2002, 03:20 AM
 
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Youngnhappymamma- I just have a minute and didn't want you to think you're being ignored. We have discussed vaxes in the past on this thread. My feelings are the risks from the vaxes are greater than the risk of the disease. I get alot of family support on my choice from my side of the family but in laws are displeased with our decision not to vax the girls. I should say "our choice" b/c dh and I have prayed about this decision and have come to it together. I have done enough research to satisfy my suspicions of the risks and dh has trusted my feelings on it. I feel it is just another intervention imposed by money hungry people. (I thought of calling them experts, but in my opinion they are far from experts.) I feel there is too much cover up of the reactions from vaxes. I guess I could go on forever. But here in Utah there are 3 exemptions for non-vaxed children when it comes to public school, religious, personal and medical. Personal works for me.

Must get some sleep. Goodnight!
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#13 of 146 Old 07-06-2002, 11:24 AM
 
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Bekka- I think you're just fine. I remember feeling in the first trimester with ds that if I had miscarried i would have been fine and I didn't really know why-perhaps for me b/c I still felt like I was just sick with the flu. It was in the 2nd trimester that I really worried about it. I think everyone handles things differently and I would count it as a real blessing to not feel like grieving.

Laurel- I can say that BIL/SIL had a similar experience when they met their ds#1's birth mom. In their situation they didn't expect to have had such a bond with her as well and find her to be such a nice girl. I know that sounds terrible & they admit the same thing but they always had imagined a different type of person, esp. with SIL having been adopted too. They have kept in touch with her and send her pic.s/she sends Christmas/Easter gifts as well. It's been very good. I feel badly though b/c things were crazy with their 2nd ds and they were not able to meet or keep in touch with his birth mom. I know they were too nervous to even tell anyone about it for a long time and then sitting on pins and needles until they actually had him in their arms and then that was the most amazing moment of their lives. The birth mom decided to bf him at the last min. and that really scared SIL but the baby was in the hospital for 2 days and she wanted to bf him while he was there. I know SIL feels the same way with each baby...reserved until they actually have the baby and it's final. Their sealing ceremonies are the best. I think I cry more than anyone else there. Something to look forward to.

Moonbucket- Keep up your signing. Drew was the same way. Any time I asked him what he wanted he would do his sign for nursing and that's it. So I just kept trying to give him options (do you want food-sign- or nursing-sign? Or do you want a book-sign or to play-sign?). It takes a while but it's so awesome and now he'll actually do the sign. His next predictable sign was banana (his version of it) b/c that's his favorite food besides nursing. That'll probably be the case with Jake maybe? Food is a huge motivator at this age.

Youngnhappymama- I had no idea there were cells of aborted fetuses in vaxes I will definitely look on that thread to find out info about it. I think if I remember correctly that most of the moms here don't vax but I am one that is. I space his vaxes far apart and make sure that he's not sick or teething and that he's only receiving some vaxes (ie not chicken pox and what I deem as totaly unnecessary). For us selective vaccination is what feels best. I have to sayt hat the MMR scares me the most and I would love to find it separated but am not sure that's possible anymore. BIL had the mumps when he was little.
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#14 of 146 Old 07-06-2002, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi everyone! Yep, I'm still pregnant. My dd is tomorrow and I've been having some contractions today, so maybe??? This pregnancy has been sooo different than the other two. I feel like it is my first! I don't know if I can handle going to church tomorrow without a baby! I got enough comments last week to make me want to cry. I'll just have to put on a happy face.

About the vax thing... I am interested to see what everybody posts. I've had some qualms about them, but a lot of what I've read seems so emotional that I don't know what to believe. I was worried with my 2nd ds on the MMR and I really prayed about it. I was expecting a fight from my pediatrician when I brought up my concerns. He gave me some statistics and told me he would NOT vaccinate my child until I felt right about it. We waited a couple of months, and I was impressed with his willingness to listen to me and talk it over. I decided to do it. So then I got on the vax forum on here and it was very overwhelming. I was almost sick with anxiety about what to do for my baby. I also have a friend that selectively vaccinates, so I had some pressure from her. I again prayed and talked to the pediatrician here. He gave me some stuff to read and we had a good discussion. As I walked out of his office, an overwhelming feeling of peace washed over me. That was enough for me, and I'm not looking back. I'm sure with each child I will have to decide, but for this one, we will vaccinate. I think it is really an individual thing, and you have to rely on the spirit. I am so thankful to have that direction as there really can be so many voices out there! Can't wait to hear more of your experiences. Hopefully my next post will be an announcement!!???
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#15 of 146 Old 07-06-2002, 01:45 PM
 
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youngnhappymama I have been trying to find time to reply as I know how hard the decision can be. We haven't vaxed any of our children. We prayed and attended the temple when we were expecting #1 and decided that for us we wouldn't vax. We have some support from my parents and some of my siblings ( I do have 2 sisters that are RN's that really disapprove but we just agree to disagree). Dh and I had an interesting experience concerning vaxing two weeks ago. It was Sunday morning and as we were getting ready for church I felt prompted to ask dh what would be the number one reason he why he feels not to vax our children. We had an interesting discussion as we tried to narrow it down. We finally decided that if we had to pick one reason that it would be that we are uncomfortable with injecting questionable chemicals and animal byproducts into our children. We finally got everyone out the door to church (I am very grateful we live across the street!) and I didn't really give it any more thought. Well after we got home, fed all the kids and they settled into their Sunday activities dh told me that he had a very interesting experience in Elders Quorum that morning. During their lesson they were talking about the difference between personal revelation and revelation that comes from the prophet for the whole church. His EQ pres then mentioned the letter sent by the first Pres. a couple of years ago in which they recommended that members receive their vaccinations and then he asked Dh to relate our experience with that. We obtained a copy of the letter read in Sacrament meeting after reading it praying and pondering as well as talking with our Bishop we came to the conclusion that this was a recommendation rather than a commandment and felt that our decision to not vax was still best for us. Dh said that he was able to explain himself well and felt prepared because of the conversation we had that morning. Dh usually has a slight problem with stuttering he said that the whole time he was talking he didn't stutter once. He felt that this was inspired as there were several persons in there that needed to hear why, not to change their minds but to give understanding. Our ward is very small (our town has pop of 160) with only about 70 active including children. I feel that children are our stewardship from our Heavenly Father and everything we do concerning them should be with his guidance. I don't think his answers will be a one size fits all. That is why we can all get confirmation in our decisions yet they are all different.



momnloveit I am in complete sympathy with you I will try and send some contractions to you! My baby will be 6 weeks tomorrow I can't believe how time flies yet I was feeling just the way you are! My first was born a week past her due date then my second was 3 weeks early, my third was almost 2 weeks early so I figured I had nothing to worry about with #4, boy was I wrong not only did I make it to my due date but four days over! I know that the due date is just a number and that babies come when they are ready it is still hard to go past the magic number! My midwife told me when I was pg with #3 to have a first, second and fourth but never a third :. I felt the same way with my third, the whole pg was different and after she was born I felt like I was learning to nurse a baby for the first time again! Best wishes for your upcoming marathon!!



Laurel Congratulations! I am so happy for you. How wonderful to have such a great relationship withyour baby's birth mother. I can only imagine how frustrating and hard it could be to pump to get ready for your baby. I hope all goes well in your endeavor.

I need to get busy, we are having a dinner after church tomorrow and I am supposed to be putting it all together while dh has the older two. He doesn't realize that it is the two little ones that prevent my getting things done (not to mention the computer)!!

Have a great day everyone!!
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#16 of 146 Old 07-07-2002, 02:51 AM
 
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Hi Everyone! Can I join?

I am brand-spankin' new (First post!), but have been lurking around for a long time. Lisa got me addicted to this board awhile back, and I have just now gotten around to registering, and introducing myself. I can't tell you how excited I am to be part of a group of like-minded moms! I don't know anyone IRL who follows or even believes AP principles, and even in my ward, I'm starting to get weird faces and remarks when they find out that I'm still bf. (For crying out loud, she's only nine months!)

I'm Stacy, 24 years old, mom to Abby who is almost nine months. I live in Salt Lake City, and kind of fell into AP by accident. When Abby was born, she was what we considered high-needs, and I read everything that I could get my hands on trying to ind out why she cried all the time, wouldn't sleep without us holding her all the time, etc. When I found Dr Sears, I realized that I wasn't crazy! So I guess I'm one of those who started AP because my little one wouldn't stand for anything else. But my goodness, I don't know why anyone would choose to do anything else. I looka t this precious little girl, and I know that I would do anything to make her happy. I love nursing, and I love our co-naps that we take as often as time allows. We don't usually co-sleep because Abby is a wigglebug and doesn't sleep well at night if she's in our bed, (which is weird because the only way she takes good naps is if she's with us,) but we try hard to be respectful, loving AP parents.

About the vax issues- I'm learning kind of as we go. I found a GP who's pretty respectful of my decisions as far as vax goes, and I'm still learning. For the time being, we're not doing Prevnar, Varicella, Hep B, and I'm still undecided about the MMR. WE have to keep our opinions on vaxes kindof quiet though, because if parents on either side found out that we weren't following the "recommended schedule" they would freak! Parents on both sides are VERY mainstream, and we're trying to help them understnad what we're doing and why slowly, slowly.

Thanks Lisa for introducing me- I'm excited! (You guys are so lucky to have her here- I wish you could all meet her in person! She's amazing, and is going to make a wonderful mom!)

Stacy
mom to Abby 10/16/01

Violin teaching, doula-ing Mom to Abby, (8) Ashlynn, (6) : and Max (11/13/08) Diagnosed with Metopic Craniosynostosis. First surgery 5/1/09, Second surgery March 2010.
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#17 of 146 Old 07-08-2002, 09:58 AM
 
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Lisa- I was thinking about one other thing. Don't go too much by the size of her belly unless she's being induced. I've had several friends who were petite and you could _not_ even tell that they were pregnant at 7 mo.s and were very small at 9 mo.s who ended up having 9 lbs. babies. Sometimes people just hide them well (we weren't sure _where_ my one friend hid the baby). Plus I always found that 3-6 mo. clothes can always be rolled up to fit. I wish I had done more of just onesies than outfits. I don't know if this helps but hopefully will.

Welcome to Staceymom!! It's so great to have more fellow AP LDS moms to relate to. I glean so much from the women here.

About the vax thing again: I do believe in selectively vaccinating ds for example I really feel like vaccinations like chickenpox are totally unnecessary. If anyone does any research at all it's not hard to find out that it was created for working moms so that they wouldn't have to take time off of work. Now everyone else is subjected to it and it seems very obvious to me that it's a pharmaceutical/money making scheme. Another thing is that to me even if I hadn't talked to my sis about this and done a little bit of reading it just doesn't make good common sense (to me) to have a 2 day old vaccinated at all esp if you know that you and your dh don't have Hep B. It doesn't make sense to me also to invade a little body with sooo many diseases all at once. Hence my philosophy on waiting to start vaxing until ds ws 6 mo.s (the next one I'll wait even longer-1yr) and even then to do only one at a time. The more I read little articles from fairly mainstream sources they confirm that vaxes take better when you do wait. When I asked my dr. about the Hep B vax and asked her to give me a good reason why a 2 day old and 2 week old should be vaxed for it other than just wanting to make sure that the masses were vaxed she said she couldn't give me a good reason (and she was very pro vaxing). I understand why in this world of sleeping around that they want to make sure that babies are protected but for heavens sake when I _know_ that dh and I absolutely did not have Hep B or ghonorrea (vit K shot) then I just can't see a good reason to rush into having something invade a brand new baby's still forming system. Those are my thoughts. I have done some research but not as much as I should. I would like to believe that vaccinations are here to help us for hte most part and to help irradicate disease, I rely on Dr. Sears' opinion of them as being necessary and know what it's like by living in a 3rd world country of not having some of them and their effects. I just think that logically assaulting my baby's system with 5 shots a visit, let alone knowing that each shot has 3 diff. diseases just can't be a good idea in my opinion.

Blah, blah, blah hope noone is offended by my candidness. I know that everyone does things for diff. reasons and I fully respect that. I just wanted to share where I'm coming from.
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#18 of 146 Old 07-08-2002, 11:02 AM
 
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Welcome Stacy!!!

I'm so glad to finally have you here! (Stacy's the friend who is donating milk for my baby--that tells you what kind of friend she is.)

OK, here's my dilemma with vaxes. I would like to selectively vax, and I admit I have a LOT more research to do. But, our adoption cannot be finalized unless the child is "up to date" on all vaxes (including those that are often seen as optional.). This is a policy of LDS Family Services, and they will not budge. I had a friend whose child hadn't yet been vaxed, and they delayed their finalization in court for two months so they could be done. She not only ended up having to be vaxed, but they had to accelerate all the shots so as to not prolong the finalization and sealing any longer. Even thought it was the caseworker's fault for neglecting to tell them that vaccinating was considered to part of the "providing adequate medical care" that they were required to prove, the agency leadership would not allow the adoption to be final until the baby had been vaxed. (The lack of vaxes had not been for philosophical reasons, but just because her husband had been out of work and they had been waiting until they had more money.)

So I feel like my hands are tied. It is absolutely not an option to delay finalization. Prior to the adoption being final, the baby is really in the agency's custody. It is vital that she becomes legally, completely ours as soon as possible. Finalizaton occurs after six months, which means that my baby will have to have every shot that is typically given before six months. At least after that it is up to us.

I would still like to space out those vaxes as much as possible. What would you do?

Lisa
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#19 of 146 Old 07-09-2002, 01:12 AM
 
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Wecome Stacy!! And how awesome to donate your milk!!! Thanks for all your responses re vaxes. I am so mixed up about it all. I would love to not to any, but honestly I don't think I could emotionally handle it if one of my children became seriously ill. I just do not do well when my children are sick. But then on the other hand I've researched and read and read and I know that vaxes aren't perfect and I would just have a total and utter cow if one of my children had a reaction or worse. So I would feel guilty either way. My oldest who is almost four is all up to date on his vaxes. My second is up to date through like 10 months or something (he is now 2) ....I didn't even know a thing about vaxes until he was around 12 months. I just assumed that the ingrediants were purely the disease and nothing else...no formaldahyde, no mercury, and certainly not grown using cells from aborted babies and animals!! I think most people think what I thought and just keep on thinking that. My daughter is almost 3 months. I think I have pretty much decided to selectivly vax. But then that brings up whole other issues that I don't know how to deal with...like one of the vaxes I want my children to have (pertusses) I think was one of the ones culltured with the aborted baby cells. I don't think I could knowingly support that. I am seriously thinking about writing the first presidency about the subject. And I am only going to have my children recieve one vax at a time (and with only one disease where possible). That is what I would do if I were you, Laurel. You don't have to let your precious baby have five shots in one visit. You can spread them out. And maybe take vit C supplements during all this so that the milk that the baby gets from you (I have confidence you will have milk!! ) will have a little immunity booster.
My baby is stirring....

Heidi : Married for 15 years, expecting our 8th baby in July!

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#20 of 146 Old 07-09-2002, 09:44 AM
 
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Lisa, that's such a hard position to be in. I would take confidence and be reassured that most babies are fine when they're vaxed. I would have the shots done mostly on time and just do them one at a time giving 2wk or 4wk intervals perhaps?
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#21 of 146 Old 07-09-2002, 12:20 PM
 
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Lisa I was going to mention getting the vax separate every 1-2 weeks as well. You could still get all that are required by six months. Also your dh can give your baby a specific blessing that all goes well. My son Noah (now 4) had some serious health problems which required treatment that we knew he needed yet were still uncomfortable with. My dh gave him a blessing as well as a blessing to me of comfort. All went well and he is now very healthy. Best wishes to you.

Welcome to the board Stacy. How wonderful that you and Lisa have each other for support irl. I have donated milk as well as nursed some of my sisters babies. They have also done the same for me. I have read of several accounts in church history where the rs sisters would take turns nursing babies for those who were too ill to nurse. I think it is wonderful.

I also have a rant! My baby is now 6 weeks old. We had him blessed this last Sunday and to my dismay when I went to use the mothers lounge I discovered it has been turned into the young mens room! The mothers lounge sign is still on the door! Our ward building is very small and there is a shortage of rooms. There hasn't been any babies for about a year but this summer there were 6 babies due, 2 have been born. We are really going to need this room! I am going to talk to the bishop and see what we can figure out. :


Have a great day everyone!

Sarah
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#22 of 146 Old 07-09-2002, 03:04 PM
 
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Wow, Stacy, I can't imagine--we need our mother's lounge all the time. At any given time in our ward there are at least 6, more like 15 nursing babies!

I've been out of town. Thanks for your comments about m/c. Since last week I've had a whole host of different reactions, from devastation to indifference to relief. And guilt for that. Dh is being very supportive, even as he is trying to do so much work. He even went out of town with us--we were just going to go w/out him.

About vaccination:
Both our girls were completely vaccinated. When #2 was a baby I read all the vax stuff and spent several months in a "stupor of thought" about it. I felt like I was "always learning" but never finding the truth. Her ped was supportive and let me postpone them. I ended up finishing her rounds but dh and I have decided that with more kids we will probably selectively vaccinate. When we can read slowly and dh can also read with me. He has a good eye (physicist) for real studies vs. surveys, etc., and so we will do some of that at that time.

Just a point of view about Hep B: I continued working parttime in the cardiac cath lab (hospital) with dd #1. At any given time I was under risk for exposure to any of several bloodborne pathogens, including HIV and Hepatitis B. I had chosen to have Hep B vaccinations when I started, but if I hadn't then while I was nursing her there might have been the risk of exposure through my BM. Of course I always followed universal precautions, but (don't get grossed out) excessive arterial spurting doesn't pay attention to lines of where gowns stop and skin starts.

At the same time, if all things are equal, I strongly disapprove of Hep B for infants. I CHOSE to get it as an adult, working in an increased risk atmosphere.

One year we went to visit my mom, she had been asked to be a host family for a young girl (about 17) who was pregnant who was going to put her baby up for adoption through LDS services. It was interesting how protective my mom was of her, and how quiet that very nice girl was. Didn't seem like the "type." She came back after the birth and was quite aggrieved for a while, but it was an overall positive experience both for my family and for that birth mom. I don't know anything about the adoptive parents, but I was trying to get pregnant at the time, and I would have been so devastated to have to give up part of myself, so I think those young birth moms are very brave and ultimately loving for their coming babies.
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#23 of 146 Old 07-10-2002, 12:24 AM
 
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Wow, Stacey and Lisa, I think it is incredible that you have each other IRL! And welcome to our little chat Stacey. Great to have you!
Bekka, I want to give you a huge hug. My best friend has been through 2 miscarrages now so I have some tiny inkling of what you have gone through. Never feel guilty for your feelings. I think that often we think we have to feel what we perceive that others feel and then beat ourselves up when we don't. Whatever you are feeling is right and if it changes in 15 minutes, it changed at the right time to the right feeling. In my friend's experience, one pg was planned and the other was a total surprise. She really grieved the planned and not so much the unplanned. That is what was right for her. But I want you to know that I am thinking of you.
RE Vax: I will always regret letting my son get the HepB shot at birth. I think it contributed to his allergies. I would delay as long as possible any vaxes. Find out what you have to have, Lisa and work out a schedule for those starting maybe after 1-2 months.
I am going with my MIL tomorrow up to Moscow to get my niece and nephew. Some of you may know the story there. If not, short one is their mom is my SIL and I am trying to get along better with her. I really need to establish a friendship with her. We have to drive approx 6 hours each way so that means about 12 hours driving tomorrow. Yikes!
Dh is still job hunting although it doesn't seem like he is hunting very hard. We are having a rough time and it is so hard. I feel like he is just not there anymore. I don't really know how to describe it. I have tried to focus on him, to have discussions anything, but he just seems to push me away. I don't know what to do. I have thought about counseling but with both of us unemployed, there isn't any money right now. I am not even sure if he would go. If he did, it would be grudgingly and I would get the fallout for days maybe weeks. Any advice? I think maybe I just needed to voice (type) it. I dunno.
Thanks for being the awesome ladies you are!

Sarah
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#24 of 146 Old 07-10-2002, 12:34 AM
 
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RasJane...I am so sorry your dh is still out of work. That has got to be stressful. I am sure he is feeling tons of pressure to be the "provider" and maybe feeling like a failure at it. Hang in there. Money/job problems aren't fun! And if you do feel like counseling would be of benifit to you and your dh (I personally feel that with the right counselor, counseling is of benifit to everyone) remember there is always church social services....they will take a sliding scale fee or even wave the fee.
And Moscow!!! That is the first place I lived on my own!! I moved there when I was a few months shy of 18...lots of memories. Some good, some not so good. I was a pretty rebellious youth. : What about you guys? Were you all rebellious or pretty much stayed on the straight and narrow?

Heidi : Married for 15 years, expecting our 8th baby in July!

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#25 of 146 Old 07-10-2002, 01:06 AM
 
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RasJane, my suggestion would be to try counseling through LDS Family Services. I am a veteran of it myself, and had a great experience. If you don't have the money, your ward can subsidize the cost, or part of the cost. You will need to have a referral from your bishop to go there; you can talk to him about the money issue as well.

Your situation sounds so similar to a friend of mine whose dh was out of work for about six months. He went through an incredible depression, to the point where he didn't have the energy or vision to do the very things that would help get him out of the situation (i.e. apply for jobs). He withdrew from her and their children. It was a very difficult time for their family, but he was finally able to get a job, and things have improved dramatically. I think the discouragement of being unemployed is normal, but at a certain point, the person slips into something way past that, and this new experience of depression or whatever it may be takes on a life of its own. I agree that fulfilling the role of provider is huge, huge, huge for a man. Not being able to do that is a blow to self-esteem that I'm not sure us women completely comprehend.
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#26 of 146 Old 07-10-2002, 01:07 AM
 
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Thanks everyone for the welcome! I'm so thrilled to have a group of women who think the same way that I do to associate with, even if it is only over the computer. There are some days that I think if I hear "Oh, just put her down and let her cry herself to sleep" that I'm going to scream!
Bekka, I'm so sorry to hear of your m/c. I had one before Abby was born and it was the hardest thing that I have ever gone through. Before we got pregnant, we both had a strong confirmation that it was time to start trying, and I was so confused when I lost the baby. What made it harder was that I ended up hemoraging (sp?) and had to have and emergency d&c in the hospital. It was a really hard time in my life. Hang inthere- you might be up for a roller coaster of emotions in the next few weeks. The grief hit me at times that were totally unexpected. I even struggled on the baby's due date, even though I was already pregnant again.

RasJane, I've been where you're at with the whole job search thing, and send big ((((hugs)))) your way. I think that men take their role as provider as seriously as we take our roles as mothers and nurturers, and when they can't provide the way that they think they should, it really hurts their self esteem and feelings of worth. What made it harder for us was that my dh was totally unwilling to talk about it- he just withdrew from everything. Even when he found a job, things didn't improve for a long time, because he was so unhappy where he was working. I've had a particularly difficult day dealing with dh today, and I think that there are easy times and hard times in a marriage, and sometimes we just have to hang in there and tolerate each other until things get better. Check into counseling through LDSFS if you can- I had some experiece through them when I was in college and they didn't charge me anything. My bishop told me at the time that that was why people paid fast offerings.

I was a major goody-two-shoes growing up. I had two very rebellious older brothers, and I guess that being so good was my way to get attention... When I moved out and went to college, I had a lot of fun testing my wings though. I remember the first time I came back to my dorm room at three o'clock in the morning smiling, because no one knew or cared that I was up that late. It's always interesting to look back on that and realize where I would be if I had made different choices then.

Violin teaching, doula-ing Mom to Abby, (8) Ashlynn, (6) : and Max (11/13/08) Diagnosed with Metopic Craniosynostosis. First surgery 5/1/09, Second surgery March 2010.
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#27 of 146 Old 07-10-2002, 06:14 AM
 
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WOW! I had no idea there was a group of LDS moms here! I'm so excited! I have three kids (7,7,2) and am expecting our fourth in November. I've been gradually becoming more AP-oriented over the last couple of years. Now I'm homeschooling, using herbs, etc. for health care, planning on wearing this new baby, buying organic, learning Reiki, and loving all of it! What I am continually surprised by is how different I seem to be from other moms in my ward.

Bekka: It is so normal to feel a variety of emotions! I lost three pregnancies between my twins and my two year-old. The first miscarriage I handled somewhat stoically, the second I was sad, but tried to learn from it, but I was a basket-case for about a year after the third miscarriage (it was an ectopic). Last summer, I had a very different experience. I knew I was pregnant, but then started bleeding a few days later (exactly like my first miscarriage). This time I had such a feeling of closeness with the baby's spirit, and he seemed to be telling me that it just wasn't time yet, but when I was ready, he would be back. It was amazing. I felt no sadness, only gratitude to be close to this special spirit. And for several months I could sense him very close to me. Now, I'm 4 1/2 months pregnant. So, I think it's very normal for our feelings to fluctuate, sometimes by the minute. There's a very sweet book called "Gone Too Soon: The Life and Loss of Infants and Unborn Children" by Sherri Wittwer. It's published by Covenant for an LDS audience. I wish for you much comfort and peace.

Lisa: You can use a homeopathic de-tox to remove the vaccine from your baby's system. That way, she legally has had the shots, but you know it's not harming her system. I would also use the Bach Flower Essence Rescue Remedy during the shots to help her with the emotional trauma associated with receiving the shots. I may be dealing with this same issue soon, as my husband still wants our two year-old to receive some shots.

I am so glad to have found this group!

Katherine
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#28 of 146 Old 07-10-2002, 01:19 PM
 
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Welcome Katherine. Thanks all you moms for your kind words.

Okay, here's a problem that you may have something to help with or say about:

I was just chatting with our RS pres., who has one son who didn't successfully BF.

Her DS is same age as my dd #2, and she was asking my opinion about a ward RS retreat. She asked if I went to the last 2 stake ones, and I said no, because I was always nursing and babies weren't welcome. She asked if I was still nursing (age 2, 2 mos.). Then she said, well, you could wean by October (when the retreat is being planned), and I said no, I'm not going to wean by October. Then I said that previously there had been a stake retreat that I did go to which was at a camp only an hour south of here, and so I didn't stay overnight on Friday night, but I went out early on the Saturday morning, and then I was able to leave nursing daughter (#1) with her dad.

She asked my opinion and I gave it. I feel like I might have been a bit defensive about the weaning thing. Then I reemphasized that I felt like having the retreat at a location you could drive to for the day might allow more mothers with babies/small children to attend. She said something about trying to get the widest range of women interested . . .

Anyhow, I am now wondering if I really said the wrong thing, and is she offended? She's a great person, but can come across pretty blunt sometimes. Not many people know I had a m/c, and I think I'm more defensive about dd nursing (and not weaning) since the m/c, since I'm no longer sensitive to nursing .

How did I do? Do I need to apologize, or am I doing the farmer and the jack routine? Remember also that her ds didn't nurse more than about a week, and so she may not understand the emotional tie to breastfeeding. Also, I'm currently the longest nursing mom in the ward.
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#29 of 146 Old 07-10-2002, 01:35 PM
 
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Welcome Katherine!! There are so many of us now! How fun!! We should plan a big camping get together or something in the next few years.....

Bekka I think you handled the situation very well, espcially under the circumstances. She has a lot of gall to suggest you wean just so you can attend an overnighter!!!!!! I think the whole thing is pretty weird...not allowing nursing babies!!! Whenever we had rs sleep overs they always said nursing babies are welcome. Now you probably wouldn't want to bring a 2 year old since then you would end up chasing your toddler around, but I can't believe in past retreats when she was younger that she was not welcome!!! If I were you, I would lobby for them to change that guidline. And making the suggestion that it be close to home was a terrific one!

Heidi : Married for 15 years, expecting our 8th baby in July!

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#30 of 146 Old 07-11-2002, 01:07 AM
 
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Hey Bekka-

We just had an RS retreat a week or so ago, and it was up in a canyon about forty five minutes away from where we live. We have four nursing mamas in our ward- four little girls all within six months of each other- and all four of the babies came and all four of us mamas stayed overnight. I think it's completely wrong for them to not make a way for nursing mamas to attend. So they want to get the widest range of people involved, but just not you because you're still nursing?
: Doesn't make any sense to me.

I haven't started to get any funny looks or comments about dd still nursing, but I'm sure that they will come. Even my mom told me a few weeks ago that she should be eating three meals of solids per day and that nursing was only needed at this point for snacks. She even told me that "My offering had been accepted." As if it was a sacrifice to nurse my daughter! It's funny how AP practices become more and more apparant as your kids get older. Have any of the rest of you found this? How do you gently explain to well meaning but sometimes ignorant comments about the way you're parenting your children? I need to get some comments stored up so that I don't get defensive and hostile!

Violin teaching, doula-ing Mom to Abby, (8) Ashlynn, (6) : and Max (11/13/08) Diagnosed with Metopic Craniosynostosis. First surgery 5/1/09, Second surgery March 2010.
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