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#61 of 95 Old 09-11-2002, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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okay, so my first question is, what are all those people doing out in the hall during sacrament meeting? And what's with the kids running around? so its okay to take your kids out of sacrament (a 9yo?) and let them run around and be annoyed at the quiet moms in the dark room feeding their babies. OOOGH! This really peeves me. I have a mind to write to your bishop...I think its pretty lame that people can't feed thier babies in public without being shunned. I admit that I'd feel uncomfortable seeing a bare-naked breast just hangin out, but I think most moms are more discreet than that. And its not like anyone has to look. Its obvious what you're doing... Maybe you and the other nursing moms should have a nurse-in and retake the ym room. I bet none of the young men would stay long once they saw four nursing moms! :LOL NO really, I know I'm being very sarcastic, but I feel for you. I hope someone gets a clue. I find it very unusual for that to happen in our church, and very sad. I was talking to my friend who has a weaned 11mo and she said her husband would send her away anytime she had to nurse, even at home! "You WILL go somewhere else!" That makes me sick. I mean, she has to watch HIM eat, and that's probably a lot grosser than watching a baby eat. So far, dd lets me nurse right in sacrament. Nobody even notices since I have nursing dresses. I'm sure when she gets more distractable we'll have to go out, but its nice now. I LONG to go to relief society. I've been about 5 times in the last 5 years. I have a pretty open-minded ward though, we have a LLL leader and a mom who still nurses her 4yo, though not at church. I'm the only one right now, and I have that whole big room all to myself. They tried to turn it into a Sunday school room, but that lasted all of 2 weeks. Maybe you should move into my ward Good luck anyway, gotta go.
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#62 of 95 Old 09-11-2002, 11:37 PM
 
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Even in the gospel it seems like there are aspects of "us vs. them" in certain situations.: I am a very vocal proponent of natural childbirth and EBF, and I don't hide that I'm still nursing an almost 2 1/2 yr old, although I've recently started feeling like I shouldn't take up the 2 comfy chairs in the nursing lounge, b/c moms w/ brandnew babies are still trying to get the hang of it and a good chair is crucial. I leave my own pillow in there all the time (it's lived there for about 3 years now ) and we can just sit on the floor.

Anyhow, I have been getting vibes, especially recently, that I have to "edit" my conversation, on different issues--I tried to be supportive of a mom who thought she might be able to do it w/o an epidural, and was met with silence from all sides . . . (except her).

Certain people in my ward have had a negative experience with LLL and have let it completely color how they view the whole organization--and anyone who might even be a member--not just a leader--of it. I don't know if those certain people know that I'm very active in it, although it's not a secret or anything. I just have been wondering this evening--do I do the same thing? Is there anything that I have a strong opinion about that I let color my whole perception of? Is there something I need to work on too?

There is a specific situation, but it's not appropriate to address it in specifics here. Sorry about the rant. I just have been trying to make a connection mentally with this situation, and I keep getting frustrated and derailing.

BTW:

A peaceful and thoughtful anniversary to you all. I was really touched by all the specials on TV--I don't watch that much, but I really appreciated the different stories of heroism. So I've watched more today that the previous week, although the batteries ran out on my remote while I was nursing, and so I've probably watched less than I would have ...

:
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#63 of 95 Old 09-12-2002, 01:56 AM
 
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I just have been wondering this evening--do I do the same thing? Is there anything that I have a strong opinion about that I let color my whole perception of? Is there something I need to work on too?
I think we all do this. Our thoughts and opinions are colored more deeply than we may even realize by the experiences we've had, whether its small things or large things. My experience being infertile colors my perspective on just about everything around me. Some of those perceptions I am very much aware of; others I probably am not. I am very sensitive to discussions of pregnancy, birth, (before ds) nursing, etc. I am sensitive about such things as inclusiveness in church, treatment of subjects in RS, etc. Those are just a few examples. Because I am well-educated, I am sensitive to put-downs of "learnedness". (Though I do try not to think I am wise! LOL!) Because I served a mission, I sometimes bristle when discussions of missions assume that only men are included. This list goes on and on of things large and small.

I have a woman who is a fellow ward missionary with me. She is single. That has become in many ways a difficult thing for her, especially in the church, and it comes out in almost every conversation I have with her in ways that I'm not sure she's even aware of. I have no criticism of this, because being single in a married church is her reality, just as being childless in a family church was mine until recently. It's just that it was interesting for me to observe from the outside how much a person's thinking is affected by their experiences. It made me wonder how I came across sometimes, and if I seemed to others to ALWAYS talk about being infertile, as it seems to me that with her, everything is an issue of being single.

I think it's good to evaluate ourselves and try to see how our reality compares to that of others. I have made a concerted effort in past months to try to be empathetic to the reality that others experience. In my case, I tried to do that particularly with motherhood, because I didn't want it to always be my nemesis. I made friends with people who were mothers, tried to talk about and understand their lives and struggles, etc. I think we have to try to understand other people. Before people can change, they have to know that they are accepted just the way they are. Stephen R. Covey says that we must first seek to understand, then to be understood, and I think that requires us to stretch. I like to be open-minded. I learn so much, and it's so thrilling. I wouldn't be here at mdc if I didn't enjoy that.

Unfortunately, we can only help ourselves to be more understanding, but we can't make other people be so too. I do think it's good to be sensitive to other people. But I'm not sure it would be good to have to constantly "edit" yourself. You are who you are. It's one thing to recognize that some people might have some feelings about the subjects that are so important to you, like natural childbirth or EBF. You don't have to bowl people over with your opinions. But neither should you have to hide them. They are part of you. I think part of having integrity is being honest about who you are, both to yourself and others. Infertility and adoption issues are a huge part of my life, so I talk about them pretty openly, and don't worry so much about whether or not others care or can relate. They are me. I would be shutting off part of myself to hide them. I would hope that for the things that are so much a part of you, you would be able to share them openly also.

I think so much more learning, growth, and true sharing goes on between us as women when we can be ourselves. I have learned so much from people whose lives and experiences are different from mine. I value that beyond what I can express.

As long as you are being reasonably sensitive, and not too aggressive with promoting your beliefs, and as long as you are making an effort to reach out in understanding to those who differ from you, it then becomes incumbent upon them to take responsibility for their own sensitivities. I can't expect people to stop talking about birth just because I can't experience it. I'm the one who has to come to terms with why I feel the way I do and what I'm going to do to resolve it. It is not right for someone else to expect you to shut off your life--your deepest life--just because of their own uncomfortableness.

I could go on and on about this issue!
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#64 of 95 Old 09-13-2002, 03:02 AM
 
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Wow! What great discussions over the last few days!

Momnloveit--thanks for the idea of one-on-one time with my son. I think you're right, it could only help.

chumani--I am absolutely shocked at the treatment of nursing mothers in your ward. I was happy to read so many good points from the other moms here (especially the legal angle, I wouldn't have thought of that!). The only thing that happens in our ward is the men will sometimes use it for meetings. When I was nursing, I would just barge right in and get ready to nurse my baby, because by the time I would get there, he was usually screaming. I figured if they wanted to risk using the room, they could figure out how to clear out fast! I think you definitely need to do something, because the way they are treating you is just plain wrong. Obviously your bishop doesn't realize that some women never pump or use formula. I never did with any of my kids, and no mother should be expected to.

Bekka and Laurel--For me the big topics are alternative health care and nutrition. I finally realized that sometimes I just need to be quiet, because people just aren't very interested. I used to be so excited about all I was learning that I wanted people to know there were better alternatives available, but now my approach is to let people ask if they truly want information from me. And I do get phone calls from time to time, from friends with specific questions. Now I am learning so much about birth, specifically how it's handled in the hospital, but again, I pretty much just keep my mouth shut. People in my ward know I do things differently, and they will ask me if they want more information. That way I try to avoid being obnoxious! Finally, a woman moved into our ward who homeschools, has her babies at home, and uses herbs/homeopathy, so we just love talking to each other. We also both enjoy being involved in performing, so we've worked together on dance festivals and road shows. We always have so much to talk to each other about. I have considered it a real blessing to have her in my ward.

Time to catch up on the rest of my e-mails...
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#65 of 95 Old 09-13-2002, 03:40 AM
 
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Thanks for all the suggestions. Dh and I have decided to write a letter. The situation is pretty complicated. Our town is very small thus only one ward. One of the other ladies nursing is the 2nd counselors wife as well as the primary pres. She is only nursing this baby (her 5th) as he has some problems with his kidneys and her dr told her to exclusively nurse until his kidneys could handle formula. It was our ward clerk that was in the hall and shut the door as he was doing the count of how many were attending. We are praying for guidance to write a gentle letter that will hopefully make a difference.

We are off to Idaho tomorrow for two weeks. We will be in Rexburg for the first week-any mamas nearby?? I am sure I will have a lot to catch up on when we get back.

Jonah is starting to wiggle I need to go before he gets desperate!

Sarah
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#66 of 95 Old 09-13-2002, 02:34 PM
 
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My question is this: why is it always the nonconformist who has to edit herself? Why are those whose views fit the "norm" seen as only normal and helpful when they share their ideas, but those whose lives or opinions are different are thought to be pushing themselves on people?

I was on a mainstream parenting board yesterday where a woman was ranting about AP moms, saying that all they do is criticize and tell other moms how to do it better. I thought that was an interesting observation, since most of the frustrations I hear expressed at mdc are about AP moms feeling like all they hear are criticisms, like "you're spoiling that child, you're STILL nursing, etc. etc.". If five moms give CIO advice, that's seen as proper, but if one mom says the opposite, she's suddenly trying to trump everyone else and push her views on them. Makes no sense to me!

I am getting tons of unsolicited advice from every female around me who's ever had a baby. I have been basically keeping my mouth shut, letting it go in one ear and out the other, because I'm afraid if I say what I really think and how I'm planning to do things, that it'll seem like I'm putting down their way of doing things, which I'm not. But I feel like I'm selling out. I feel like I'm not showing personal integrity, because I'm appearing to agree when I don't. And then I think, "Why should I have to keep my mouth shut?" Why is it different for me to share my views than it is for any one of them?

Bekka, I hope I'm not taking over your discussion!
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#67 of 95 Old 09-13-2002, 06:10 PM
 
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Lisa, you described perfectly the frustration I so often feel. It is so irritating and sad at the same time!!! Just the other night I was with a bunch of women from my ward and we were talking about birth and all that stuff and they were talking about the wonders of epidurals and how their dr's would'nt "let" them go 2 weeks overdue and how one woman asked to be induced one week early because she was big and wanted the baby out, etc. It was so sad. At least most of them know that I am into natural childbirth so they did say something like "you are so tough, I asked for that epidural after ____ hours and was so happy after that!" I wanted to say "it's not being tough, it's being prepared and educated about childbirth and having the support neccesarry, etc, etc, etc" I wanted to say "your dr doesn't 'let' you do anything.....you are the one paying him!!" And Oh, I had so much I wanted to say....................
Sometimes I feel like I just have such strong opinions it might feel like I was squashing the conversation or something. But I do try and make as many small, flowing comments as possible...to let people know my views so that they will know people do do things differently and if they are intersted they know they can talk to me about it.

Heidi : Married for 15 years, expecting our 8th baby in July!

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#68 of 95 Old 09-14-2002, 04:45 PM
 
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Hi,
No, you didn't take over "my" discussion. Anyhow, dh and I are speaking in SM tomorrow and feeding the missionaries tonight, so I don't have a lot of time to discuss in the next day or two, but I just wanted to make a couple of comments.

I have been one of the moms who originally was a more "mainstream" parent. I have one especially good friend who is the epitome of "natural mother" to me. When she talks about what works for her, she introduces it gently and with a personal edge (I've found that _______ is very doable--natural childbirth, etc.), and she is a good listener and validates all opinions before bringing up her own opinion. She ieither! s laid back and patient with her children. And she has the best home atmosphere, loving and peaceful of anyone I've ever met. And she has four beautiful, unsupressed children. She and dh are both into natural stuff, provident living, etc., and are really really amazing. I can attest that she planted lots of ideas in my head, but they never felt "planted", instead they were ideas that came to fruition as I was ready for them (switching to a midwife, alternatives to CIO, etc.). OTOH, I was always "for" EBF, at least to about 2 yo, and she weans her kids _at_ 1 yr. She just cannot nurse them longer--emotionally or whatever. She is so giving in every other way, and _does_ nurse them for the year, I cannot comment or anything on the BF choice!

I am blessed (I guess) to have several friends in my ward who have a more _natural_ approach to BF, homebirth, childbirth in hospital, food, everything. I don't necessarily feel like I have to edit _everything_ I say, but I do find that it's almost like speaking a foreign language, and so I have my friends who I can talk "natural" with and my other friends/sisters in RS who are in the "medicine is great, epidurals are great" category. One of my very natural friends labored for a very long time--around 40 hours and got an epidural about 24 hrs into it, and it actually helped her relax and be able to progress, for whatever reason she couldn't. A lot of the people I know who are "into" natural CB have really fast really easy labors, and I have always thought that if labor took me 24 or 48 hrs of the painful part, I don't know what I'd do either!

Last comment--one mom was nursing ds #2 who is about three months older than my dd#1. It's her last son. She works, but dh stays home with the kids. As I've thought about how they parent etc, I'm convinced they are mostly AP but may not have a name for it. They are older than I am also, but she nursed her kids till almost 3, they're picky about fabrics for kids, etc. I think there may be more "out there" than we think, b/c they are quietly parenting according to the Spirit and their parenting instincts, and we just have to "find them"! Instafriends.

Okay, I'm done. I almost hijacked this thread with all my beliefs about natural childbirth and how it's squelched by society, etc.
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#69 of 95 Old 09-14-2002, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have to say that for a long time, I had this problem. I sort of categorized people by what they did. "Oh, she had homebirth", OH, she's a vegetarian, "oh, they do homeschool". For so long, I put these people in a negative category. Now my problem is that I have to keep from putting people who don't do these things in a negative category!
I, like Bekka, have had "alternative" friends that were kind and inclusive, even though I was pretty mainstream. Some of them were LDS, some not. The thing is, they LOVED me even though I was doing something a different way. I've been searching for this letter that my Dad sent our family on this topic. It is so awesome. I'll post it later if I get ahold of it, but I couldn't wait to get in on this topic.
I think it is common for people to feel "threatened" by people who are doing things "better". I think it brings out a fear that that person might make us start doing something we're not ready to do or accept. I know it has been the case with me. I think the important thing before I have ever changed anything is that I felt loved by the person even though I wasn't doing it his or her way. That is the major reason I had a hard time with Mothering. I did not feel like people would like me if I did things the "less than perfect" way. The key here is that nobody is a perfect parent. We all have things that we are sluffing on in the gospel, things we're not ready to sacrifice in order to get the blessings. I think all of these things are similar. People in general know that natural childbirth, healthy eating, EBF, staying home with kids, keeping the Sabbath, watching only appropriate shows, etc, are BETTER. It is so accepted and justified in society to be less than better. People feel comfortable there. I think what we have to do when we've set a standard for ourselves is to keep from imposing that standard on others. That does not mean that we shouldn't share the joy we have or describe the blessings we've gained. That is what we SHOULD do. It is our job to make friends, share our joys, invite them into our homes and lives and let them SEE how it works. Living high standards WORKS! Then, we must also look at them and discover what standards they have set that we are not living, and have the courage to sacrifice and become better ourselves. That is what the Lord intends. We are here to learn from each other. Let's not deprive ourselves of the lessons we may learn from others just because they breastfed for 3 weeks and thought it was gross and quit,or, fought the doctor for that epidural, or, had a big mac and coke on their way to church.....The truth is, we will be accountable more for how we related to our brothers and sisters on earth than how we birthed our children. Okay, I know, LONG and PREACHY, but I thank you for letting me share what I have learned and what I am struggling to live. Sarah
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#70 of 95 Old 09-15-2002, 03:16 AM
 
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T O.K. I am finally organizing a meet! Every 3rd Wednesday 10-4 at Liberty park on the new north west playground.

I'm just a smidgeon exited....

:::
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#71 of 95 Old 09-17-2002, 12:42 AM
 
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Originally posted by momnloveit
church.....The truth is, we will be accountable more for how we related to our brothers and sisters on earth than how we birthed our children.[/B]
Thanks, Sarah. This is exactly true. We'd love to hear what your dad had to say too. I think this has been a really good discussion, and I really agree with what has been said. I feel really motivated to try and be more open-minded when I talk with people.

When I started learning about the family bed, and all these people who advocated it seemed to imply that if you _didn't_ do it that your kids would emotionally suffer and be distant from you didn't jive with the happy families that I know who for whatever reason _don't_ do family bed. What I was also really surprised about is how many people _do_ cosleep, at least for a few months with their baby ... (they keep saying, "you might think this is weird, but ..." and then tell me they're cosleeping ... um...). So for a while, I was pretty down about the fact that cosleeping didn't/hasn't worked for us, although we really tried. But dds slept in our room for a period of time, and I feel like we are "attached" parents.

I guess this is my example about my reaction to the implication--implicit or explicit--that my kids would be mass murderers or something : --okay, that's extreme, but not healthy-functioning children/adults-- b/c they didn't cosleep in my bed for 2, 3, or 5 years.

Well, I hope that made any sense.
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#72 of 95 Old 09-17-2002, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I'm glad you got the jist of what I was saying! I guess that one sentence would have made it easier to read! I have just had so many great friends who all do things so differently. They have been so helpful to me in so many ways, I would never want to put them down for parenting differently than me. Sometimes, even with my friends and sisters, that is really difficult for me. Over the past year, I have relieved myself of that burden. It is so nice to feel like I can just love people and not worry about how they're doing things. It is so nice to have people with similar interests. though. I finally got ahold of that letter, so here it is. I really think it is amazing, and it hit me really hard:

One of the lessons of old age...as the grizzled old man looks back...is that each person connects with the Savior and with His love in unique ways. My job in life is not to look around and, not understanding the very personal and often private connection of
children of God with their Master, criticize that path; but if I am going to walk beside the Master in doing His work, just love and
respect each of the children of God whom I am privileged to know (which, by the way, is also a divinely guided connection), and
to learn from each one and just give love and respect the fact their Almighty Father and Son are already at work in their lives in
very powerful ways. Part of the awesomeness of the Divine Processes is the multi-faceted complexity of His work with His
children. I have found when I respect that Process and have the inspired vision to see it at work, then I find it easy and natural
to just love that son or daughter of God and not interfere with God-at-Work in that life. My job (remember my releasing myself
of being everyone's critic in front of the mirror), if I am going to do it God's way, is to love and respect each one of His children,
and even understand more clearly the Process as it is Divinely unfolding: work harmoniously with the Ongoing-Divine-Work-at-
Hand, rather than try to steady the ark and recreate the Work-at-Hand in my own incomplete image. I have found my own image
of things to be faulty so often; that I believe my faith requires greater confidence in God's Almighty Goodness and my own humility in its face. He is way ahead of my feeble mind and opinions in these matters!

So....what? We often have loved ones, including neighbors and inactives whom we home teach as well as family members, who
don't do things the way we have decided to do them. My Pickett, Nichols, Porter and Briggs families are full of folks living
another way. But if I have faith in my Father in Heaven, I will learn to respect his Ongoing Work in that child of His whom I
also love, and become a friend who loves and creates a nurturing environment of love in which all can make up their own minds
about changes in their lives: including if, when, where, and how to change. If they want help and advice, the gentle and loving
relational environment becomes the key, and they will feel safe and nurtured by our relationship enough to visit freely about their
Divine Journey, and reveal aspects of it which I was too blind to see while I was trying to change them and recreate them in my
feeble image.

Now, with children, it is a little different as you jerk them out from under the wheels of autos, etc. and they feel they have been
used and abused by the parental authority structure and imperfect attempts to guide them to safety. (Sorry for the bruises!)
But when they have grown and have their own families, my job is not to criticize their choices, but to once again love and respect...
respect is the most important starting point...their pathway and support them in their goodness, which I may overlook if I have
chosen to view them from behind my own Eye-Beam, as Jesus said. Righteous Judgment is a quality hard to come by, except
from God. I am suspicious of it in myself, since it becomes too often Self-Righteous Mis-judgment.

So, I have a little light with which to find my way in life. The light that really makes a difference comes from the inspiration of
Heaven. I have developed a Way, which I find mostly sound and wholesome and inspired and inspirational for me. Each of
you has a Way equally so.

All wagons don't have to be painted the same to get us across the plains. They just need wheels. Paint and wheels are both
good things and helpful and functional, but are not equally critical in getting us there. I respect the Paths inspirationally chosen
and being chosen by each of you and will not interfere, unless by occasional knee-jerk reactive habit if you seem to be slipping
under the wheels of a passing car. Forgive any of that please, as old parental habits die hard, but we will not jump into the
middle of your lives, which you are living just great on your own, thank you.

But we would love to share your lives and marvel with you at the diverse and unique experiences each of you is having and
learn from you as you blaze your path across the plains of life with handcarts, jets, DSL and cable. We also hope you are
feeling the same way and are uncritically rejoicing about each other's lives!
Hope that was worth the length!
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#73 of 95 Old 09-19-2002, 08:18 PM
 
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Time for a new thread?

Quick question: what do you all do with your day? Ds is 18 mo.s old and I'm struggling with how to structure my days. I worry that I'm not doing enough for/with him to help teach him. I feel like I could clean the house 8 hr.s a day and still not be totally clean and I wonder, "What in the world should I be doing with my time?" It's been a little depressing lately. So give me a typical day if you have one, or a typical week? Do you structure things, go totally non-structured, what works for you?

Btw momnloveit that was a very nice letter. I liked the wagonwheel analogy!
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#74 of 95 Old 09-19-2002, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, Drewsmom, I'm glad you liked it. I know it was long, but it really touched me. I sure do miss my folks!

I totally know how you feel about needing things to do with your kids. For FHE one night, we made a family schedule and it worked really well. Since the baby, we haven't stuck to it as well and things are kind of shifting, but here it is:
8am-eat breakfast
8:30-10mommy's work time (kids usually watch videos or play)
10am-snack and preschool (Some kind of craft, music, or other structured learning activity)
11am-playtime (no movies) while mommy makes lunch
12noon lunch
1pm naptime
4pm snack and outside time (okay, I know I was lucky, but both my kids really DID sleep for 3 hours. That was a happy memory... )
5pm freetime (video if they want) while mommy makes dinner
6pm dinner
7pm family or "Daddy time"
8pm bedtime

I have found that being really strict with myself and the kids on work time is really important. It helps me feel like I actually did something, and It helps so much with the atmosphere. If they want to help me work, they can, but I'm pretty strict about not playing or getting food for them. Then I'm also careful not to do my own things during time I should be with them. This was really hard for my ds when he was 18mos, but after a few times of saying "this is the time when I do my work, what can I get for you to play while I do it.", he caught on and pretty much respected it. That and snacks have been the most important. If I keep them fed and get things clean in the morning, the rest of the things are pretty flexible. We also have our park times and library times. We've done story hour and have just started Joyschool, so that changes things. Check out some books at the Library on fun things to do with toddlers. Fresh ideas are always a welcome for me, and that has really helped. My kids would and sometimes still will play for long periods of time if I give them a pan full of dry beans or something and they can scoop and pour, etc. Hope some of that is useful!
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#75 of 95 Old 09-21-2002, 06:08 PM
 
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YOU CLEAN EIGHT HOURS A DAY??!!

I wish I had motivation like that. Even when I should I can't--about 2 hrs is all I can stand.

At different times in our lives we have been more or less structured. Right now we are approaching greater structure with much trepidation and excitement at the same time. Often I just played for a while in the morning, inside or out, read books in the afternoon, and meals etc. took care of the rest of the day. 18 mos. olds want to be on the go, so for my sanity we are outside a LOT. I have sat around with my friend recently discussing our ideas of an "ideal" mother, who makes little handouts for FHE, "practices" colors/numbers with kids, reads at least an hour a day, etc. Both of us were independently feeling like bad moms b/c we didn't often do this!

What I have found is a lot of what our children learn from us is simply by our routine. After dinner we take our plate into the kitchen. At bedtime we pick up toys. We get dressed after breakfast. Mommy washes dishes after dinner while I play. Sometimes I get to "help" mommy wash dishes, sometimes I get to talk with mommy while she washes dishes. Sometimes I get to put clothes in the dryer with mommy. Dd #1 is 4 and when I fold laundry, she folds the dishtowels (rectangles are easier than shirts . Her attention span is about 3 towels, but that's the kind of thing we do. Very Montesorri. If they make a mess, they make a good effort at cleaning it up. All I have to do is make sure there are towels on the shelf.

We all struggle to be good mommies, but as long as our kids are happy and know they are loved and well fed
then they're all going to be okay. In RS or enrichment this month (recently anyhow) someone said that in general, kids grow up to be decent people occasionally in spite of ourselves
And another friend said that it's always our fault. If we worry too much, it's our fault. If we don't worry enough it's our fault. If we don't discipline strictly enough, our child is wild and crazy. If If too strictly, our children are repressed. It was tongue in cheek, but at the same time made a good point--do your best! Don't worry about what anyone else/book says or does. Not to say that books are unuseful--lots have helped me be a good mom. But occasionally I'm just reminded of what I "should" be doing.

Hope that helped a little bit.
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#76 of 95 Old 09-22-2002, 01:48 AM
 
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Bekka, I loved your idea of our children learning from us through our daily routines. In RS recently, we were discussing teaching our children. A lady was in tears because she feels like she gets to the end of the day and hasn't had time to teach her children anything. I think that it's not meant to be that structured. Teaching is supposed to be "in the moment", as we use the things that come up in the course of daily routine to bring out the lessons. I think that's part of what mindful parenting is all about, is learning to recognize and capture those moments. We have family home evening, family prayer/scripture study, and time on Sundays for the "big" lessons and as a way to make sure that we don't leave anything out. There may be other things that we think are really important that we want to schedule into our children's days too. But sometimes I think we expect too much of ourselves.

I had a friend with whom I used to go on walks. We would spend two or more hours in nice weather with her and her children almost every day. A walk sounds like time wasting, but not with her. She was so attentive to both her children and the world around us. She knew the real names for all the birds we saw, and could identify them for her children (we're talking a 2 year old and a 1 year old). She encouraged the children to look closely at nature, to observe a bug on the ground or a beautiful flower. I learned so much from her. It was all in her attitude. She had trained herself to look for teaching moments. She was really good at finding spiritual moments too, and even took time out one day to explain to her 2-year-old daughter all about priesthood blessings, why only men hold the priesthood, etc. Just because she happened to catch her little girl trying to give a "blessing" to her dolly.

I have this book that I love called "The Holiness of Everyday Life". It's by an LDS woman named Joan MacDonald. She talks about how we often feel that life gets in the way of spiritual things (could also be applied to anything that we're wanting to learn or teach). She says that no, life doesn't get in the way; life shows the way. She says, "how can we learn the value of cleanliness, order, and nourishment w/o meal preparation and dishes in the sink? How can we learn to be patient w/o situations that require patience? How can we learn love, long-suffering, and endurance w/o children quarreling in the kitchen? How can we learn about priorities and what we truly value w/o too much to do and too little time?"

I also liked what you said about kids growing up to be decent in spite of us. I read somewhere the idea that it's part of Heavenly Father's plan that parents will provide some of the opposition for their children. Of course, we don't do this purposely, and if we did, we'd be held accountable for it. But because of our weaknesses, our children will have some struggles along the way. Heavenly Father didn't intend for perfect people to raise his spirit children. If that were the case, we wouldn't be humble, and our children wouldn't learn as much either.
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#77 of 95 Old 09-22-2002, 07:47 PM
 
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Thanks for the replies. No way Bekka, i don't actually clean 8 hr.s but I feel like I could and still not have it be clean! I feel like I'm in constant crisis management picking up one mess after the other...having it never done. Definitely not like the days of just the two of us when I cleaned on Sat. and enjoyed it until Thursday...then it was messy til Sat. when it got cleaned again.

Nevermind....thanks for your comments momnloveit.
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#78 of 95 Old 09-23-2002, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It is a scary thing that another person's choices can have such an impact on our lives. Some things that have helped me in my marriage relationship:

Love is a verb, not just a feeling. If you love someone, that requires action. Serving my husband has been a great way for me to mend hurt feelings.

Be thou humble. I have found that If something comes up, If I realize my mistake in it and say sorry right away, dh's heart softens and we both realize that it is worth it to give up the pride and contention in order to have the peace. I have found that if I keep anything from my dh for long, it becomes very big and emotional, but if I talk it out right away, it disappears.

If dh is having a bad day and "behaving badly", I have found that an increase of love toward him is much more helpful than being defensive and reactive.

I hope any of this helps. I am so sorry to hear about your wedding and marital struggles. I can't really put myself in your shoes, but I feel for you. Sarah
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#79 of 95 Old 09-23-2002, 01:22 AM
 
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I am finding it is not going so well trying to juggle ds's needs with teaching Sunday School. I am trying to feed him during Sacrament meeting so that I can teach without worry, but so far it's backfired. Last Sunday, he slept through the whole feeding, waking up and becoming hungry just as I had to go to teach. Today, he was awake and hungry, but for some reason was very agitated and wouldn't settle down to nurse. The longer it was taking, the more stressed I got, knowing he would still be hungry when we had to leave. I'm sure my tensions and my trying to hurry him contributed to his dissatisfaction. I think the two of us interrupted everyone else who was in the mother's lounge, too. I'm learning that I have a very distractible nurser, at least he's becoming that way. The conditions, mood, etc. have to be just right for it to be successful for him.

So needless to say, the whole time I was teaching, I could hear him crying out in the hall!

I guess I'm struggling with some feelings within myself about what my priorities should be. I found myself feeling so resentful that I had to devote time to this calling, when I really wanted to be with ds. I love those "go with the flow" days that to me represent what AP is all about--following your child's cues. I hate that Sunday can't be like that, and it's making my favorite day of the week not be as pleasant. I feel like it makes life so much harder when I try to order ds's schedule to fit into what I need to get done, rather then letting him order his own day. It just doesn't work at two months old.

Anyway, I just needed to vent a little.
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#80 of 95 Old 09-23-2002, 04:38 AM
 
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Hey, I've got a question.What do you think about having/donating/bringing some nursing literature to the church nursing room?I have a B.O.M. I keep in there,But lately, (I used to be the only one to use the room as far as I could tell)another mom has been comming in, with a seemingly fussy baby. She is very business-woman dressed, and shy about my presence-nurses facing the wall-baby is maybe 2 mo. and her first, I want to help her help herself, as I can see she is frustrated with their nursing relationship,unless I just make her nervous.Anyway, I thought of having "the womanly art of breastfeeding" or something in there.Would that be wrong/inapropriate? what do you ladies think?

:::
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#81 of 95 Old 09-23-2002, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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sunday is quitte often the worst day of the week for us. sometimes i've wondered why i put myself and my family through it. i've even looked longingly as we drive past other churches; people outside chatting after their 1hr meeting. sometimes i'm only there because i know that's where i'm supposed to be. otoh, if i had more faith, i could cast my sunday burdens on the lord and enjoy it more, but i'm just not there yet. kids awake.
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#82 of 95 Old 09-24-2002, 12:00 AM
 
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Laurel, I tried to respond earlier, but my computer crashed. So I'm back. I just wanted to say that I had a RS committee calling the first about 8 mos. after dd #1 was born. I didn't do ANYTHING! I was so overwhelmed with taking care of a baby. I spent the better part of 3 hours in the mother's lounge b/c she nursed so often in the first 3 months, and I often wondered why I bothered coming. I tried to do that committee, and it was just more than I could handle. I think that people don't often realize (or somehow remember later) what kind of adjustment it is to have a little body in your home and life! If you're feeling this conflicted, then by all means make it clear that you need to meet the needs of ds first!

Surely people would support anything that would enhance a relationship between you and your baby, and your efforts to bf ds will really do exactly that. I think there's this mistaken idea in the church that we're supposed to be wonder women. Ask for a 3 month "leave of absence" or 6 month to meet the needs of your tiny baby, and when he's a bit more adjustable, then see what you can do!

There's a mom of twins who just moved into our ward--they're cute baby boys about 5 mos. old. They just gave her the perfect new mom calling: missionary meal coordinator! She can just use the phone! At least, I really think it's perfect. I know I was on the phone all the time "back then." (Nursing babies ...).

What people don't realize--at least, I didn't--is how many hours in the day a 2 or 3 or s6 month old baby takes to care for. Not to mention lack of sleep. It takes really hours to nurse _or_ bottlefeed as many times as they need. A good, unstressed diaper change takes 10 min. at the minimum--and most babies want a lot of interaction when they're awake--talking to their face and stuff. That should be your focus.

Okay, this got long, but part of what we believe is instinctual/spiritual parenting, and if you feel a conflict between your family and your calling, that should not be!

About putting in literature: you could always leave something in there "by accident" for a couple of weeks. I think it's a good idea but you want to be careful that no lines are crossed about equating or associating the Church organization with another organization. You could ask s/o in general terms/hypothetical situation ...
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#83 of 95 Old 09-24-2002, 02:12 AM
 
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Sorry I've been missing in action the past little while- things have been nutso around here lately. I've been planning a baby shower for a good friend, getting my orchestra started up again, and planning yet another ward activity. Add a sick little one, and you have one crazy week. I mean, I like to be busy, but last week was a little ridiculous. :

About church attendance- I have felt the same way a lot recently. DD is become more and more active and mobile by hte day, and sometimes the Sunday block of meetings feels like a giant circus trying to keep dd quiet and out of trouble. We never make it to Sunday school, and sacrament meeting is last, so by that time, she is usually so frustrated that we spend more time trying to keep her entertained than we do paying attention to the meeting. It's really frustrating, and there are times where I've felt so frustrated coming home from church that I wondered why I went at all. But I think we need to go because it's a commandment. Because we are told to stand in holy places, and we want to show our children a good example- going to church on Sunday because that is where we are supposed to be. But more than that I think we need to go for the spirit that is there. I think that there are times when the spirit can teach us through a lesson or a thought given, and if we're not there, we'll miss it. It doesn't happen everytime, but I don't have big spiritual experiences every time I read the scriptures, pray or go to the temple. But I keep doing those things because I hope and am searching for those spiritual experiences and uplift. Now, I just need to keep telling myself these things when I have Sundays like we did yesterday....

Drewsmom- we are really struggling with scheduling issues too. I'm teaching again now though, and I'm hoping that getting up and going to bed at a consisitent time each day will help the situation. Also, I'm going to tryi to shoot for a consistent nap time, or a nap at all... DD is not a great sleeper, and when she doesn't sleep, she gets even more cranky and wound up. So we're working on becoming more consistent, and I think she'll thrive on it. I also try and plan one "outing" every day, even if it's just a walk around the street, or a visiting teaching appointment. That way we don't end up in the house all day, and we both get a change of scenery.

Someone asked about marraige relationships the other day, and I didn't have a chance to respond, and I feel bad because I can't find the original post now. Marraiges are so hard- it's so difficult to constantly be with someone and try to make alife with them. No matter how much you love a person, it's still difficult to handle all the little, mundane, day to day things that come up. I think it's especially hard when there are financial troubles, or troubles with kids, etc- things that are common to young couples! I think the key would be honest but kind communication. DH and I have a tendency to be silent when troubles come up, and we could both spend days not talking to each other when we're upset. But if we take a minute to take a deep breath and discuss what's really on our mind in a quiet and kind way, things are usually resolved fairly quickly. I have a big tendency to blow things out of proportion, and one little irritation from my dh can sometimes have me stewing for hours about all his faults. When I give him the benefit of the doubt and realize that he doesn't mean to hurt my feelings/ be careless etc, I stop taking everything so personally. A couple of friends of ours are going through counseling theough LDS Family Services, and have had a great improvement in their relationship- is this an option? Being in counseling is not a failure- it's a way to make a marraige work. I
wish I remembered who posted the question so that I could give them a huge hug.... I guess one of these will have to do!

Violin teaching, doula-ing Mom to Abby, (8) Ashlynn, (6) : and Max (11/13/08) Diagnosed with Metopic Craniosynostosis. First surgery 5/1/09, Second surgery March 2010.
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#84 of 95 Old 09-24-2002, 03:35 PM
 
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People definitely do forget what it's like with a newborn. I remember driving to the distribution center with ds when he was 3 wk.s old to finally buy nursing garments and I could barely (literally) hold him, pay, pick out what I needed and keep my bleary eyes open and words coherent. These sweet old ladies were just looking at me like, what in the world planet are you from? It was quite comical.

Stacymom, thanks. It was me that posted but I erased it pretty quickly. I had a meltdown this weekend and dh took care of ds for pretty much the whole time. We talked last night. I know this is bad but I just wanted to see how long dh would go with ignoring me. I know we all have bad communication habits learned from our own families. It's been quite stressful since we moved here (new place, new job, new baby, etc) The type of job dh is in requires very, very long hours at times and on top of that he's studying to take the CPA. He's already a bit of a work-a-holic as it is and so with no $ right now and no time there's no individual time that I can have to recoop. If I could pay a babysitter to come watch ds I would but I want for one of us to put him to bed so I can't leave him with a friend at night. But I've realized that for my sanity and safety as well as the baby's that I need some type of regular let down time. Most of the time I love being with ds but he's hitting that independent stage and when you find yourself depressed and frustrated then the baby starts acting in response to that and it just gets worse. It's funny b/c I usually don't watch this but I actually had what I believe to be a prompting yesterday to watch Dr. Phil and he talked about this. I thought in the end that he gave one of the ladies bad advise (return to work) but it helped to know that others feel that way...& it helped just to have some individual time this weekend.

Sometimes I struggle with having goals and that's frustrating b/c my #1 goal is to raise a happy child and try to set a good tone in our home but when I do have some free time it's hard to know what to be doing. I think I found some answers though. Scheduling is going much better...we started a "Playschool" every Tues. with friends and I found a book with Boredom Busters that I've written down several activities for us to do each day. It _really_ helps me to feel like I'm being a better mom (btw I'm definitely not the type who has cute little handouts, etc and is frustrated b/c I can't get to doing stuff like that. I'm lucky to have showered and have the dishes done at the end of the day) and teaching drew. Also, there's an ESL class that our ward is starting that I'm going to probably start doing on Sat. mornings. Anyway, thanks for your hugs Stacymom..they really help.
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#85 of 95 Old 09-24-2002, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Drewsmom, congrats on reaching out! It is so hard when you're down, but it always helps. I hope you get through your storm. For me, the meltdown is kind of the climax and then things start to clear up. Its like you have to get it all out of your system and look at it from a different angle. For me that always means tears.
I was thinking back to when I had only one toddler. I remember some ladies from the ward would meet at the park once a week. I would look forward to that all week and spend hours and hours there. I remember feeling lonely even though my family was in town. My dad even worked across the street from our house, so we saw them a lot. I just wanted to feel like more than a babysitter. I have found that that is what homemaking is all about. I have learned to find more joy in sewing, cooking, food storage, baking bread, decorating and even cleaning. I recently started meal planning and I am amazed at how much we're saving in groceries.

On another note, I recently checked out moonbucket's website and saw the picture of her family. She looked WAY different than I ever imagined her. It made me realize that we all probably have different images of each other. What do you think I look like? What do you look like (nothing personal, just haircolor, build, height...) I know it sounds silly, but it makes me smile.
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#86 of 95 Old 09-25-2002, 02:16 AM
 
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I am just amazed how well the Lord knows us, knows our thoughts, and can answer prayers that we haven't even formally verbalized yet.

Dh and I got called in to see the bishop tonight, and I got released from my ward missionary/SS calling. I wanted to cry with relief. I've spent the past few days wondering how I could break it to people that I just couldn't handle it right now. I was feeling so guilty for resenting a calling. I've been so frazzled with life anyway the past little while, and every time I even thought about my calling, I felt angry.

I'm going to be ward organist, which is perfect for me. I have a master's degree in organ performance, I've been missing playing sooo much. This is a calling I can really magnify, yet won't stress me out at all. And best of all, ds can eat during Sunday School (until he decides to change his eating times )

The only downside is that dh is going to be ward mission leader, and he'll be gone even more evenings that he is already. But I still feel so much better about life!
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#87 of 95 Old 09-25-2002, 06:12 PM
 
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When our heart's desire is in allignment with the will of God, then He makes the way for us to be able to do His will (appropriate care for our family!!!).

Laurel, I'm very glad for you. Organist means you can nurse just before you leave for church, after the Sacrament hymn, after the rest hymn, and all through the rest of church! Unlike for me, I play piano fine, but being called to be ward organist would TERRIFY me. (As a result, I'm doing organ lessons this year ...). You take care of what's important.


Chumani,
How are things going for you? Any improvement? We're thinking about you ... If you need to vent/grouse here, it's the place ...
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#89 of 95 Old 09-26-2002, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hmmm, well, I thought you looked like a moonbucket! No, I was picturing short, black hair, heavy set and very loud and funny. You might still be loud and funny, but you don't look like it in your picture, which, btw, is beautiful. Do you think its grammatically correct to have 4 commas in one sentence like that? I bet you feel so relieved about your calling! Oh, I know that feeling. You know, those people in your ward might be thinking that, but they are probably really intrigued by you and want to get to know you better. They want to know WHY you are willing to stand out a little. I know that's how I am with people who seem different. I am always glad when I finally get to know them. I always smile when I NIP. I think it is especially funny around children who have never seen it and they're really wondering what's goin on in there! Glad to have you back, moonbucket, and I hope you are enjoying your crazy life. Do you like working with dh?

So here's my major dilemma: I am the chorister for primary, a calling I love. I wanted to do something more with the nursery, but going into the class is hard because my ds is in there and it would throw him off for me to come and leave, etc. Plus the times I'm not in singing time, I'm nursing ds. So I had this great idea that during the 1st 5-10min which is major transition anyway, I'd have the nursery kids meet in the primary room where the jr. primary is and we sing a few fun activity songs. After a few songs, I have the jr primary sing a reverent song while the nursery kids walk to nursery. It has been so fun. All the kids love getting started that way and it helps the transition for the nursery kids into primary. Plus it is easier for the parents to come in and do something fun with them than just leave them in a room full of toys when half the time the teacher hasn't arrived yet. So I tried it and it was working and so I asked the PPres if I could continue it and she said yes, no big deal. Then the next Sunday she came to me and said, this isn't going to work. Her only excuse was that it was too chaotic and that the Sunbeams in Jr primary are too rowdy without bringing the nursery kids in. My problem with that excuse is that she has NEVER been in the primary room during singing time, especially the 1st 5 mins. I am the only one dealing with the kids then (most of the teachers haven't arrived yet), and it hasn't been any extra burden on ME. So I asked her to let me do it and have her sit in and see, but she just didn't have time for that. So today my good friend mother figure who is also in the pp, called me and tried to tell me it is against the handbook or something. So I just started crying and she now feels torn between me and ppres. I feel like my nice little magnifying of my calling has been totally blown up all because it wasn't pres's idea. I said, if she doesn't want me to do it that's fine, I will obey her, but I won't have her telling me I was wrong or broke a rule because I was doing something GOOD! So today I spent all day looking for the handbook which, btw, SHE never gave me one. (I bet it says in the handbook that you are supposed to give it to all the primary workers, lol) Now I'm torn because I want to be humble and submissive. I hate when contention enters a presidency. I dealt with that for a long time in my old ward and it was horrible. Otoh, I feel like what I started was good and helpful to everyone involved and her problem with it is sort of a power trip. RANT RANT RANT. Thanks for letting me get all that out. Any opinions would be helpful. Support is necessary at this point. As I write, I believe I'm coming down with the flu. My dh just called to tell me he's on his way home and feeling miserable. Now who will take care of me? Wah wah wah
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#90 of 95 Old 09-27-2002, 11:59 AM
 
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momnloveit-:better Sending you love, sympathy, prayers and lots of happy healthy thoughts! Hope it helps, good luck!


p.s. Those of you watching the R.S.General meeting on Saturday, I will be in the chior! My seat is on the right side (my left, congregations right)center,second row up, fourth seat in.I'm strawberry blonde in a green shirt,forgetting the words of the last 3 verses of "The spirit of God". I'm so exited!

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