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Old 08-17-2002, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i've been hours at the computer trying to figure out some problems, so i'm a little frustrated. my 4yo came in and said, "mommy, will you make brandon's tortillas into triangles?" i sighed and started tearing the tortilla for him. "i know you're having a hard day, mommy." i hugged him and said thanks. a few minutes later,he was helping his bro down from the table. '' i want mommy to help me!" "but brand, mommy's having a hard day." what a gem!
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Old 08-19-2002, 01:06 AM
 
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OK, so I've told y'all how frustrating our lives have been the past few weeks as dd has been trying to stand up and things on her own, and how mad she's been that she hasn't been able to do everything that she wants to. She's been so grouchy! Well, today we had some major breakthroughs! Today during church, she got up on her hands and knees in crawling position, (first time she's done this deliberately, she usually gets around by scooting on her rear end) and then when we got home she managed to get herself sitting up from a laying down position, and she pulled herself up to standing. Yea!

She is such a happy baby today! She was in the middle of the living room floor, on her back, rolled over, sat up, scooted over to me on the couch, pulled herself up to standing, smiled at me and said "Hi!" Who could ask for more than that? I know that there will be very few quiet, peaceful moments from here on out, but I also know that these new found skills will make her so much happier!

Thanks for letting me brag. I knew that you guys would be happy for me!

Violin teaching, doula-ing Mom to Abby, (8) Ashlynn, (6) : and Max (11/13/08) Diagnosed with Metopic Craniosynostosis. First surgery 5/1/09, Second surgery March 2010.
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Old 08-19-2002, 03:31 AM
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Hi all... barging in for a sec... hope ya'll don't mind. I had a minute to kind of skim through the last page of LDSmamas 5... I know I'm so behind on everything. I feel bad, I love you guys... I don't know the new comers well... but hi, I'm Jessica How did the Utah mama get together go? I was disappointed I couldn't be there... are we going to try it again soon?

Anyway, life is crazy, can I just say? Did ya'll see the SL Tribune article on our business? It's good that we're so busy, but things are kind of hectic as we try to get the new website revamped and finished... there just isn't a lot of time left over for much. I feel like *such* a failure, b/c I haven't been able to do *anything* with my new calling... "new"... lol, I got it 2 months ago. The ward hasn't had any cub scout program for 20 years. There are 13 boys... only 3 are actively attending primary who are cub scout age... though I'm sure the others would be excited to come to scouts. They've all been excited for Cubs to start, and every week I'm letting them down. I just don't have the time to dedicate to brushing my teeth let alone fixing hot meals or scrubbing the toilet. Jake is a JOY and I really pump all my time into him, the business and my husband. I work until 2 a.m., sleep in with Jake until 10... Eric gets up at 6 and starts working... we keep expecting things to get more under control as we get more organized, but boy... the Bishop approached me today and asked how things were going with the Cub program. I just burst into tears. It's always on my list of things to do, but keeps getting shoved further and further back. I have a stack of literature to read b/c I don't know the first thing about the scouting progam and Eric's forgotten all the details since he was in scouts. Who has time to read???!!

I have NEVER flaked on a calling before, but I just sobbed... I kept saying how sorry I was, but that I didn't want the boys to be waiting week after week on me. I want to fulfill a calling, but maybe one where I don't have to organize the whole shebang from the ground up?? I don't know. I've prayed about it... but I really don't know how HF feels about it. I mean, if he said to me, "Hey, fulfill this calling and everything else will fall into place" man, I'd re-dedicate myself and try to make it a priority. But I kind of feel like this was one of those callings where the bishop said, "Hey new couple in the ward with a baby, they look young and energetic." YK?? They didn't ask about my schedule or what kind of work I did or anything when they called me to be Cub Master. And I didn't offer much info b/c at that time I thought I could handle it. It was overwhelming but not THIS overwhelming.

Am I a loser you guys?? I so want to be super woman and do it all... but I just can't. boohooooo...
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Old 08-19-2002, 03:29 PM
 
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Jessica, Hello! I went to your website and it's great! When the next one comes I'll definitely come to you guys. That is your business right? I mean both you nad your hubby are doing it full time right?

I don't think you're a loser. I definitely think that it's good to tell the Bishop what's going on in your life so they can also take that into consideration. I just went vt'ing and the girl we vt is our age and is preg. with baby #2. The primary pres. just moved and was hinting that she was going to probably be called as the new pres. She was so sick about it. She's in her 1st trimester anyway and dd#1 has severe food allergies so that takes a lot of her time as well as being on the same constrictive diet herself b/c research says apparently that if you avoid the foods while preg. the baby won't develop the allergy. Also she'll be teaching a college class this fall...needless to say she was in tears about it for weeks. Finally her dh called the counselor in the bishopric nad just said, "I just wanted to let you know that my wife has been really stressing about this and didn't want to call you since she hasn't officially received the calling but she really feels like she wouldn't be able to handle it right now." Needless to say it was a hard and prayerful decision for her and the counselor interestingly enough said that he believed that the whole calling thing was a process and even after they offered a calling the person had the time to go home nad pray about it and let them know what their circumstances are.

I guess I'm just saying that if you really feel like it's not possible right now I would just ask to talk with the bishop and tell him exactly what's going on in your life and let him make the decision ro release you. You have to make a living and you have to devote time to your family, they come first. Although I do know that there are a lot of blessings for fulfilling a calling. I guess it's really up to you and your dh and the Lord. Good luck!
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Old 08-19-2002, 10:33 PM
 
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Jessica:
I absolutely agree with Drewsmom. Callings are not set in stone, and you are the one who receives revelation for your own personal circumstances. It was extremely eye-opening to be in our RS presidency a few years ago. Sometimes I submitted names for callings simply because that person seemed like a good fit, and I didn't feel a "no" when I prayed about it. One ward I was in called me as RS pianist, even though I didn't have a piano, and had no car during the week to go the church and practice. And I would have needed daily practice time because I was so rusty. This is also when my twins had just turned one and my husband was rarely home because of his job. When I told the bishopric member my circumstances, he said, "Oh, obviously that wouldn't work." Now that I'm pregnant with my fourth and homeschooling my kids, any calling that I accept requires an unmistakable assurance through the Spirit that I should accept it. And even after accepting, I am so much more careful about the time I put into it. If I were called as Enrichment Night counselor again, (and received the confirmation that I should accept) I would estimate (with the Lord's help) the number of hours in a week that I could devote to the calling. I would then stick to that, even if it meant missing some meetings, or not being as organized and on top of things as I would like. I really neglected my family at times when I had that calling before. There are so many meetings and programs, and I don't believe we are meant to do them all at the same time in our lives.

Okay, enough rambling. This does remind me of a funny phone call yesterday morning. The phone rang at 10:30, and church starts at 11:30. It was a sister in our ward whose children are all grown. She is the Family History coordinator in our ward. She wanted to know if we had turned in our family group sheet yet. I didn't even know we were supposed to, but I nicely said, "No, I don't believe we've done that." She then asked in a very firm tone that I have it prepared to give to her at church that day (in one hour!). I very pleasantly informed her that I would be dressing and feeding my children during the next hour, but I would be happy to complete it in the near future. I just laughed when I got off the phone and thought how quickly people forget what it's like to have small children. It's also an example of how easy it is for people to become fixated on one program, and they forget that people have families that are supposed to come first. Anyway, there are my many thoughts on this subject.

Jessica, you have my total support for evaluating your circumstances and letting the bishop know what you are able to do right now. I'm sure as you pray about it, you will know what to do.
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Old 08-20-2002, 04:38 PM
 
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Hey Jessica-

I think that you are doing the right thing. I think that sometimes callings come from desparation, not inspiration, and that although al lcallings come from the Lord, there are some that I honestly think could be better fulfilled by others whlie we are focusing in on the things that are the most important. Like you, dh and I are some of the youngest married people in our ward, and as soon as we moved in, I was called to be the activities director, and he was called into scouts.

When I applied and auditioned for the church's orchestra when I was pregnant with dd, I had to fill out and extensive application. They had no qualms about outlining my priorities for me. It said that my first priority would be my relationship with my Heavenly Father, second was my relationship and duty to my family, third was my job or providing for my family, and then fourth was my responsibility as a called member of the orchestra. I thought it was very interesting that the outlined it that way. My relationship with HF has nothing to do with whether or not I am RS president or even have a calling- it matters more how I am serving my family. Interestingly enough, I wasn't accepted into the orchestra, which was a really hard thing for me to accept at the time. Now, I know that it would have taken way too much time away from dd and my family obligations, so I'mg rateful. Good luck.

Oh, and I did see your article in the trib. I recognized your name and wondered if that was your little guy in the pictures. Adorable!

Violin teaching, doula-ing Mom to Abby, (8) Ashlynn, (6) : and Max (11/13/08) Diagnosed with Metopic Craniosynostosis. First surgery 5/1/09, Second surgery March 2010.
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Old 08-20-2002, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think it often takes great faith to fulfill a calling. I know that at times I have felt like I was just given a calling because I seemed to "fit" or something. I have realized since moving out here that being available when there's a need is not circumstantial, but all a part of what the Lord wants for us. I know how hard it is to have stress from a difficult calling. My dh was called to be Scoutmaster right when we moved out here. He had no clue how to do it, was adjusting to a new job, new house, new area, and I was pregnant. There were times when his job was so difficult that he had no desire to spend any time with scouts. Finally, a year later, things are starting to come together and he is making it work. It has been a great learning experience for him and those he works with. Somrtimes we are called not where we are most qualified, but where we are most needed. I think there is more room for growth in the latter. The Lord understands your needs and does not want you to run faster than you have strength. He will still love you if you ask for a release. I am confident, though, that He will provide a way for you to serve where you are needed. A good place to start is to ask yourself what CAN I do this week for the cubs? and don't focus so much on the hugeness of it. Little steps are usually all that he requires. He accepts our offering, no matter how small. My last calling was very difficult and i prayed to be released. after bursting into tears one sunday, my bishop called me and asked me if i wanted to be released. i said yes, but i will not ask to be released, that is your call. i thought for sure he would release me, but he didnt. those last few months were wonderful. i also got to know the woman who had a great deal to do with our getting a job out here. You never know... Anyway, I know how you feel and i know that I probably didn't say what you wanted to hear. i had to present this side of it though you have my support (and more importantly His) either way. ill pray for you!
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Old 08-21-2002, 05:22 AM
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Hi all... up late *again* I really appreciate all of your comments.
Quote:
even if it meant missing some meetings, or not being as organized and on top of things as I would like.
I think this is one of the hardest things for me. I got married "old" for Mormon standards... lol, I was 24. But had lived on my own since I was 18. I was very used to being rather anal and pretty proud of myself for how neat and organized I was. I was always on top of the on top, yk? My callings were structured and fulfilled above and beyond the call of duty. When I got married it was a little adjustment to get used to someone messing up my way of doing things... and then boy, when Jake came along my schedules were trashed. Add the extremely busy biz on top of that... and you have one very tired exhausted mama sitting in a sea of toys, on an unvacuumed floor with the kitchen table piled high with fabric samples, bags of snaps and a box of reciepts... we won't even look at my desk or the kitchen sink... or the bathrooms, or the pile of laundry, or the empty fridge........

I WANT to take the leap of faith and *somehow* trust that HF will work that amazing miracle of creating time out of nothing (kind of how he makes your paychecks stretch after you pay tithing?) That has been my attitude since I first got the calling. I have the stack of books, I have the charts and sign up forms. I have the info sheets on day camps and uniforms, I have lists of the boys' names and addresses... it's on my eternally long list of things to do. But somehow, along with the toilet scrubbing, yard work, showering, shaving my legs, and putting on make up... it gets pushed farther and farther down the list. And not intentionally either.

*sob* There simply aren't enough hours in the day. Period.

I honestly don't know what to do. I can't believe it's already Wednesday. I'll go to bed around 5, try to sleep in a little and then start the cycle again. We really do need a couple of employees, but we've got to get out of the black before that happens, yk?

If HF would tell me to just do it. I would. I would somehow carve out the time to plan cubs. It's just so hard for me to not DIVE WHOLEHEARTEDLY into it, yk? Pre marriage, pre baby, pre business. I would have made cute invitations and gone around to personally deliver them to the would-be cubs in my uniform freshly pressed. I'd have sat down with their parents and introduced myself and handed them a calender with the year's activities listed with times and contact phone numbers. I'd have great activities planned and actively pursue the less active boys to join scouts to make friends and have fun. I'd be on time for Pack Meetings, I'd be heading up the day camps and training the newbies. I'd be driving around and picking up the boys that somehow couldn't manage to get a ride or make it on time. My ward hasn't seen a cub program for 20 years. I'm *totally* in charge of Den Meeting, Pack meetings etc. I'm the Cub Master and the Den MotherS all in one. I'm over all 13 boys without any help at all.

You guys... I can't do it. I mean, I can't do it without help from HF. I really feel like this was just one of those "good fit" callings. I'm NOT just a young couple with a baby. I'm in over my head with a new business and trying desperately to stay a good AP mom. I don't sleep. I forget to eat b/c I'm so busy and who has time to go grocery shopping? *sob*

Blah blah. I need to get back to work... I've got to finish a full page ad and work on the new website pages before the sun comes up.

This sounds like a big whine fest... I'm sooo grateful that the business is busy, I love it that my little idea has been able to employ us both full time... well, more than full time. I'm excited about the future of it and hope to be able to grow it into something really great... and more managable. But when I try to factor in any extras like working on a embryo-cub program. I just break down and cry.

I really do need to go chat with the Bishop. There have been new couples move in that have more time and energy to spend than I do. I'd love to help out in any way I can, but I don't think I can champion the whole thing from the ground up. I don't think HF wants me to either.
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Old 08-21-2002, 12:31 PM
 
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Hi Moonbucket,

I think everyone has given such great input. I learned a couple of years ago that sometimes in life, there comes a point where it becomes just between us and Heavenly Father, and the expectations of everyone else around us just have to be put aside. I think that when Heavenly Father gave us both free agency and access to the Holy Ghost, He intended that we would use those things to make the decisions that we need to make. I guess what I'm saying is that I agree with momnloveit about the inspiration of our leaders and also needing to take the leap of faith sometimes in accepting callings and the will of the Lord for us. But I also feel that "the buck stops here" when it comes to our personal lives and situations, and only we can receive that ultimate revelation for ourselves. The scriptures tell us that we are not required to run faster than we have strength. Maybe the Lord allowed you to be in this situation so that you could do the soul-searching required to come to that conclusion? I don't think that it's somehow sinful to ask for a release if that's the answer you've prayerfully come to. I think that's one of those "LDS traditions" that's somehow been handed down since Pioneer Days. If you've honestly and prayerfully considered your life, your desires, and your priorities, and feel that you can't handle the calling right now, then as the individual concerned here, it's not only your right but your responsibility to say so to your bishop. That's the responsibility that comes with being free agents, and I think it's something that we're here on earth to learn.

I personally couldn't imagine handling everything that you're handling right now. My hat is off to you!
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Old 08-21-2002, 01:27 PM
 
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A quick observation about cub scouts--that is way too much for one person. Our ward uses 5-6 people to fulfill those same responsibilities. My thought, IF you were to feel very strongly that Heavenly Father wants you to stay in the calling, would be to start with just a very casual once-a-month get together. (Is that the pack meeting? I'll learn this soon, my oldest son turns 8 in November). I liked momnloveit's insight that the Lord accepts our offering no matter how small. I'm just thinking "out loud." I was so sick with this pregnancy that I haven't had a calling for several months, but the time has come for a new calling, so I'm getting ready for whatever it may be! Keep us posted, Moonbucket. And things have got to start getting easier for you soon!

Lisa: It made me smile to see your signature, I'm so happy for you and your sweet baby !
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Old 08-21-2002, 03:19 PM
 
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Wow. I haven't been that overwhelmed in a long time, but there have been a lot of really good comments made.

Do you mind if I burst in here and change the topic? I have just joined a book study with some Christian friends, and we're reading it. I was reading ahead in the book and it addresses whether the Bible has archaeological proof etc. Then it uses the Book of Mormon as an example of a book of scripture with no archaeological proof. Can you help me with this? On another thread, someone talked about a scholar who did Book of Mormon research who was not LDS. Has he written a book? Does any of you know?

The book we are reading is called The Case for Christ. So the approach is like a legal case, as in proof, etc. Very interesting exercise, to have to put aside faith and try to be a discerning thinker.
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Old 08-22-2002, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Bekka, I don't have any names for you (sorry), but A couple of months ago, a guy did a presentation for our ward on studies he had done archealogy in North America and how it correlates with the scriptures. It was very cool. I guess there are hundreds of forts in Ohio with the mounds of earth and holes where the towers were, etc. referring to the strongholds Capt. Moroni built. There is an entire civilization that archeaologists know about that has lots of correlations to the Nephites. I don't know the guy's name, but his daughter is in our ward and I visit-teach her hopefully today. (Speaking of callings, this will be my first time going visiting teaching in a year. Yay!) I will find out more for you. Very cool stuff, though.

As far as the calling thing, I hope I didn't sound too preachy. As I said, I've had my VT calling for a year and done very little with it. I also meant to tell you to ask the bishop for some staff! That was something my dh finally realized. He wasn't supposed to do it all on his own. It might actually be easier to be the cub master if you have some den mothers doing the weekly thing for you. Delegate! You should talk to your bishop. I hope I didn't imply that you shouldn't . You guys are great. I feel as overwhelmed as you do, and I don't "work" at all.

Lisa, I've been thinking about you a lot as I get adjusted back into life with the new babe. I hope you are adjusting well. I'd love to hear how nursing is or isn't going and more about your little guy!

Well, I can hear the boys trying to help the baby over the monitor, so I'd better go save her.
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Old 08-23-2002, 02:16 AM
 
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Bekka-

I think your best source for the kind of info you're looking for is FARMS (Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies) out of BYU. That's exactly the kind of thing they're all about. I would imagine they have a website or you could locate them on BYU's website.

I'd love to hear how nursing is or isn't going and more about your little guy!

Thanks, Momnloveit. I'm finding parenthood to be pretty overwhelming right now. Much more than I anticipated. Little Dallin is totally adorable with big deep blue eyes and dark brown hair, and beautiful skin (everyone who sees him comments on it). We're having lots of challenges with fussiness, and I'm at a loss to know what's wrong. He fussed literally the entire day today. One friend suggested gas, and he does have lots of trouble burping and sometimes his smell lets us know it's gas, but massive burping efforts, tummy rubbing, and periodic doses of symethicone drops aren't really helping at all. He's not screaming or anything (usually!).

He's a very alert and active baby, arms, legs, and tongue always moving. I think he's going to be very busy when he's older.

Nursing is going well, but it's hard work. Is it normal to feel physically drained by nursing? Also, to feel unusually warm? I always have to turn on the air conditioner. Dallin nurses very well, and I'm learning to tolerate all the funny little problems we have with the Lact-aid (the tube likes to curl up instead of going in his mouth straight, he gets his hands caught in the tubing and pulls the bag apart, resulting in milk spilled all over both of us, etc.) I'm getting more efficient at keeping bags of milk cleaned and filled.

Well, I've gotta go. He's having another meltdown. Can you tell what kind of day we've had? I wouldn't trade it though!
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Old 08-23-2002, 01:12 PM
 
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Ah,it is so nice to read from you ladies again!this may be short, as our computer fan has been broken ,so the comp. overheats and turns off!we moved in and things are good,what a crazy thing -moving!(with kids)I missed the utah meet-up so sad).And i can't beleiveit, but Dylan will be one on Monday!!!! Asher was this old when I got prego with Dylan, but he was not nusing and Dyl is...The house is beautiful-815 sq ft. 3 bedrooms,big yard (I get to garden!).The ward is good...OH! and guess what! Our stake is one of three chosen to make the choir for the General Releif Society Meeting in Sept.! as Dylan will be one, and is branching out more, I decided to go for it! The big reel-in for me is a prayer meeting with the prophet! the only hard part will be the day before is an all day practice-working something out for Dylans nursies...I have faith all we be fine-and better! she's awake, and Shaun is telling me about $ issues and I should be listening....

:::
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Old 08-23-2002, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Lisa, so good to hear about your sweet little boy! Yes, nursing can be very draining. Is he getting any milk from you? I just have no idea how long it usually takes for that to happen. If so, drinking and eating more to keep your energy up helps. That probably helps anyway. It is also very draining to have someone completely dependent on you for everything. I remember taking 3 or 4 naps a day with my 1st ds because that's how tired I was. Nursing makes me very hot! I think it makes me hotter than pregnancy. Not only do you have extra blood and fluid in your breasts, but holding a little human up against you all day can get pretty hot! There have been a couple of evenings here when the humidity was up that I had to force myself to pick up my baby because I was so uncomfortable. Thank heaven for AC! I don't know why it is that nobody would ever consider living in a home with no heat, but AC is some kind of luxury. I personally think it is much easier to warm up than to cool off. Anyway...I'm sorry that your little guy is fussy. The thing that works best for us is to wrap her up as tightly as possible in a thermal knit blanket and hang her over my arm and walk around. We use pacifiers too, but I can see how that might be a no-no for you. I know how frustrating it is to really want to enjoy your baby while he's tiny, but it is so hard when he's always fussy. My #2 was a lot like that.
I went to my 6wk checkup last night Why is it that the 6 weeks before the baby go by so much slower than the 6wks after? I'm just not ready to be "all better" yet. I still feel like I'm running around with my head chopped off. Everything I look at needs my attention. I'll start in on something and have to stop to tend kids and so nothing ever gets finished! I'm sure everyone feels this way, but it has been especiall hard lately. I can't even look forward to the weekend cause dh has a campout. My boys are trading off with the tantrums. At least they're not both having them at once! Lots of prayers for me to survive the next 2 days.
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Old 08-23-2002, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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AudreyJoy, congrats on the new house! We just picked some squash and tomatoes from our own little garden. Having a house is very very awesome! (even when you can't keep it clean )
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Old 08-26-2002, 10:17 AM
 
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I just have a random thought. Ds is 2 weeks away from going into nursery (I kept thinking, "oh 2 weeks/ 14 days...still a long time) when I realized that it was only _2_ Sundays away...I was sad! Our nursery leaders are wonderful with children for the most part and have been inviting me in with Andrew. It's been so interesting b/c (here's my bragging part) out of all the kids Andrew never looks twice to see if I'm there or not he's so busy playing with the toys and he never cries (I do leave for a little bit to go to class/see how he'll do). Dh made the comment, "Oh you're not gonna hang around there after he's 18 mo.s are you?" and I was able to say, "Hey, I must be doing something right? He seems like one of the most well adjusted kids in there." AP rocks! Sorry I couldn't think of a more appropriate word to describe my feelings. It's nice to have some added assurance that things are going well and his needs are being met.

Lisa- we found the cradle hold to be esp. effective for colic (not full proof but effective).
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Old 08-27-2002, 02:34 AM
 
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Drewsmom- thanks for your AP testimonial of sorts. It couldn't have come at a better time for me. I've been having a couple of days lately where I wonder if anything I'm doing is right, or if I'm just going to raise a spoiled, clingy demanding child. I'm so glad to hear stories of how AP really does help kids become well adjusted, social, emapathetic kids. Anyone else with older kids out there want to share their experiences? It really helps me see the light at the end of the tunnel during these tough phases.

Violin teaching, doula-ing Mom to Abby, (8) Ashlynn, (6) : and Max (11/13/08) Diagnosed with Metopic Craniosynostosis. First surgery 5/1/09, Second surgery March 2010.
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Old 08-27-2002, 03:30 AM
 
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Laurel, I love to hear how everything is going for you. Keep it up you are doing great!

momnloveit, how did your weekend go? I can understand how you feel. My dh has been ym pres and currently scout master. He is gone so much, the campouts are the worst though. I depend on him to get up with 2yodd as I have my hands full with the baby at night. If we lived closer I would bring you brownies!

Stacymom, I think the greatest affirmation of how dh and I raise our children comes from our children themselves. They completely trust us in everything. I pray daily that we can continue what we are doing so that we never lose the communication we have now. I am so impressed with my daughter Eva, she had a friend over to play about a month ago. I overheard her friend telling her to make Noah go away so they could play alone and Eva told her that it wouldn't be nice and Noah would feel bad. Once Eva established that rule they went on to have a great time playing in our yard. It is so hard when others question your parenting style. I feel so blessed to have a dh that completely supports my mothering efforts. I'm sure you have many happier days ahead of you. My sister has a very high needs little girl. She lived in her sling for the first year. She is now 15 months and is completely opposite. She is friendly and outgoing. It has been gradual, I think she needed more time than other children may have. I don't know if I have made any sense it is getting late.

Have a great day! (even though it is the middle of the night)
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Old 08-27-2002, 04:25 AM
 
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Stacymom~ Just wanted to add my testimonial for AP. My daughter is 20 months. We moved into a new ward when she was 17 months. She is such a busy and active child. Our pediatrician calls her a "raging extrovert." Anyway, I was never anxious for her to go to nursery but on our first Sunday in the new ward, we walked by the nursery and she looked in and ran inside. They said she could stay and she did. And every Sunday since then she has gone right in and loves it. I always peek in and she is always busy and fine. I have never left her with a babysitter yet (not that I'm totally against it, I just haven't, we like take her with us). Well, actually once I left her with a good friend and was so worried, but she never once cried and she also fell asleep on my friend's lap. This is a child who most always nurses to sleep or near sleep. So, these are examples of how AP seems to be working quite well and doesn't make for spoiled dependent children. Hope this helps. I think everyone questions their parenting from time to time, but I truly don't think you can go wrong with AP.

Drewsmom~ I felt just like you, so excited about how the whole nursery thing went, it was such and affirmation.

Moonbucket~ Just reading your entries made me tired. I think you need to just have a talk with the Bishop and explain your circumstances and see what he says. If you do keep the calling, you may just be able to spend a very small amount of time a week and that's it. You do what you can and if it is not much, it's not much. At least it's something. But, I'm totally with you. I'd feel overwhelmed with the situation you described. Even without the home business. I sincerely hope it all works out and you find some time for a talk with the Bishop. Your website is darling.
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Old 08-27-2002, 01:13 PM
 
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Stacymom--
In answer to your request for feedback about older kids...My twins are almost 8 now. They did not start out with AP, I scheduled their feedings, they cried-it-out to sleep, etc. (I shudder to remember). What I have discovered is that everything I have done in the last 2-3 years to be more attached, empathetic and connected with them has improved our relationship and their behavior in general. And our two year-old, who didn't start sleeping with us until he was about 22 months (10 months ago) just seems much happier and more easy-going than the twins did at his age. I feel much better about how I am mothering and our days go much more smoothly. When I was trying to run everything according to an arbitrary schedule, our days were full of battles and struggles. And even when there weren't struggles over naps and meals, there was still a pervasive sense that we weren't very well bonded. Of course, we still have struggles and angry times, but it's just so much better now. The kids seem to sense that I am really trying to take their needs into account, and we are all working together.

Having the chance to compare two different ways of mothering babies, I have to say the results of AP pay off in my relationship with my children, and in their sense of well-being. I look forward to connecting with my new baby, it used to rip my heart out to listen to my babies cry in their cribs. And it seems like so many mothers are still torturing themselves and their babies because they believe their babies need to learn to fall asleep on their own. At least having experienced that first-hand, I will never be tempted to try it again, even though my friends may brag about how much sleep they are getting. They just don't know what they're missing out on in terms of closeness with their child, both when the babies are young, and as their children get older. Okay, time to go have breakfast, just wanted to share my thoughts...
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Old 08-27-2002, 04:28 PM
 
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Well, I was going to comment on all the toddler in nursery discussion. Even though you believe in the priniciples of AP in general, it can be SO hard to apply them to aspects of your life, accept your child's rate of development, etc.

Dd #2 is around 27 months. We spent the better part of the last year taking turns sitting in nursery with her, and she has only recently "let" us leave. It has come right at a time when she is learning to play better by herself, learning independence in many things, and so she seems to have reached a new level overall. She would have been 30 mins into her nap on a regular nursery day by the end, so she's usually past the end of her rope, but she does okay in general now.

I can intellectualize it now and say, well, she needed the time to develop, and she's making progress on so many fronts (starting to go take herself to bed!), but often it was hard to back off and let her make those leaps in bravery herself!

One thing I _don't believe_ is that weaning her early would have made this all better--she still nurses several times a day and really appears to need that for emotional support at this point. I just think she would have shown and satisfied her "neediness" in other ways.
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Old 08-27-2002, 06:46 PM
 
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Katherine,

Just wanted to say I love what you wrote and I agree wholeheartedly. I do think so many people feel like they have to sleep train and schedule and they miss out on the natural instinctual rhythms you get into with your children as well as the closeness you feel with your child when you just enjoy them and relax. I just love how you put it. I kept agreeing to myself. I know this is a huge generalization, but I have several hyper scheduling, sleep-training friends and honestly, they seem WAY more stressed about little changes in the children's schedules, moods, etc. It seems like they really miss out on lots of the joys by focusing so much on rigid schedules and what their children "should" be doing at certain stages. While AP has it's unique demands on parents, I really think it alleviates a lot of stress, struggle, and unnecessary worry. I would never do it differently.
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Old 08-28-2002, 12:38 AM
 
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A quote from the last Harold B. Lee lesson (The Righteous Influence of Mothers):

"Today I feel that women are becoming victims of the speed of modern living. It is in building their motherly intuition and that marvelous closeness with their children that they are enabled to tune in upon the wavelengths of their children and to pick up the first signs of difficulty, of danger and distress, which if caught in time would save them from disaster."
pp. 140-141

I don't know that I feel like my children yet need "saved from disaster", but it's wonderful to know that I'm working on building a closeness that I can call on in the future. It took me a full 3 years to be okay with the idea of being at home with my (then and now) two kids. I still struggle with wanting to do this or that NOW, but it's been a lot easier to think that I can put that idea in reserve and call it up when my kids are old enough that I _can_ be gone for part of the day or something. I am just having a struggle with the whole letting go of self that is required as a mother, which is why I feel that I often struggle with what feels right in my heart and in my head, as opposed to what I want to _do_ (which isn't always in my heart _or_ head . . .).

Sorry this is ramblish .
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Old 08-28-2002, 02:40 AM
 
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Ladies, I'm sorry that it seems like all I do lately is whine, but I don't know where else to turn. I've stopped seeking advice from other people because their points of view are so different than mine, and I really feel at home here and trust your instincts and advice.

Today has been a terrible day. DD has always had her periods of high needs, and has needed a lot of nursing, attention, interaction, stimulation, etc. She seemed to calm down around six months, but in the past month or so, things have really been nuts, and her sleeping (or lack of it) is as bad as it's ever been. She's up screaming once or twice a night now. We used to think that it was night terrors, but now we're wondering if it's just separation anxiety, or other random nighttime things. I usually can get her back to sleep nursing, but nothing else will work. It wouldn't be that big of a deal if she would sleep during the day, but naps have become a huge battle the past week or so. Today she woke up for the day at six am and took a small nap around eight thirty, but we were both up for the day at nine fifteen. And she wouldn't nap all the rest of the day. Trust me, I spent the better part of today trying. I've been reading Pantley's book, and althrough there are alot of things that I dont agree with (and that's a whole 'nother thread...) I do think it makes a lot of sense that better naps equal better night sleep and vice versa. Anyway, I've been watching really closely for signs that she's tired, and she'll rub her eyes and fuss, and we nurse, we rock, we dance around the house, and she will not sleep. She just cries and fusses more. Eventually I give up and decide that she's not tired and go about her day, but today she didn't sleep at all, no matter what we tried or how many times we tried. Then I was teaching a violin lesson at five and she had a complete hysterical meltdown. Luckily, dh was home and took her downstairs, but she was screaming and my poor student couldn't even concentrate because dd was screaming so loud. Finally when we got done, I went downstairs and nursed her and she fell asleep, and slept until 7:30. So guess who's still awake with no signs of slowing down? (It's sure not my dh!)

I guess the reason I'm posting this here instead of in the sleep issues forum is because of all the discussion weve had lately about following our childrens' lead and not forcing schedules upon them. In most cases, I really believe that. But if I left it up to Abby to decide when to sleep, I think that a lot of days would be like today where she doesn't sleep until she's completely exhausted, followed by a meltdown. She really needs help to sleep, but I don't know how to get her to sleep without a huge amount of fussing and fighting on both our parts, which I don't like either. To be honest, sleep trainig has never looked as atractive as it does now, although I'm not sure that it would ever work with my intense little one. I'm not sure that she would ever stop crying! I just wish that I knew what to do to help her to sleep- I know that she must be tired, she acts tired- I just don't know how to help her relax and get the sleep that her body needs. When she was tiny, I had to be holding her or laying next to her in order for her to get a decent nap, and now, it's seeming like that's again the only thing that will work, although it didn't work at all today. We're trying some of the Pantley techniques, although we did almost everything that she suggests today, and nothing worked, she just cried. I'm so tired of having naptime and bedtime be such a fight, and I hate hearing her cry and cry until she finally goes to sleep (this is while dh or I are holding, rocking , talking, singing...) I need her to sleep- I need the time alone,and I need to get things done. Today has left me feeling completely exhausted and burned out, and I'm starting to lose my patience with her, which is exactly what I don't want to do.

I do believe that AP is what's right for me and my little family, but right now, the sleep issue is about to do me in! Thanks for letting me vent, and any suggestions are welcome. I'm just so tired... *Yawn*

Violin teaching, doula-ing Mom to Abby, (8) Ashlynn, (6) : and Max (11/13/08) Diagnosed with Metopic Craniosynostosis. First surgery 5/1/09, Second surgery March 2010.
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Old 08-28-2002, 03:34 AM
 
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GratefulMommy--Thanks for the supportive comments! I think you're right about your hyper-scheduling friends, in many ways it is much more stressful to live that way.

Bekka--Thanks for the great quote from Pres. Lee. And, I agree that wanting to do some things on my own is a source of frustration. I'm finding that visiting teaching is very difficult. Because of homeschooling, I asked to be put on an evening route, but that isn't working out because my kids want me here to fall asleep. And the sisters I visit just aren't set up for an invasion of small children, so I'm not comfortable taking my kids. Each month I just pray that I'll work it out. I'm flying to SLC this weekend for my cousin's wedding, and I'm just really hoping things go well here. My 2 year-old isn't nursing, but does like to hold my hair to fall asleep. Hopefully his dad's hair will fill the need?!

Stacymom--I feel so bad for you! Would some calming tea like chamomile be helpful? (I don't remember how old she is), and the Bach flower essences come to mind, too. (Obviously, I rely on those). It does seem like there's got to be a way for her to relax and just "let go" so she can sleep. This sounds awful, but for my two-year old, we finally started bringing in his car seat! About two months ago, I decided I just couldn't take his lack of sleep anymore. Even with me laying down with him, he was constantly jumping up and running around, just not settling down. He was awake from 6-7am to 10-11pm, with no naps. We felt that it just wasn't good for him, or the rest of the family (especially me, I was so frazzled). So in the evenings I would do his bedtime routine, (at the same time every night) then put his car seat in his room, buckle him in, then sit right next to him, singing, or with relaxing music on, until he was asleep or almost asleep. Then I moved him onto his bed. After several nights he started calming down when it was bedtime. Now I don't need to use it, and the bonus is that he is settling down for naps again, which I thought were completely lost to us. He didn't nap for about six months. Now we lay down and read stories, and most days, he falls asleep. Again, I know it sounds really awful to use the car seat, but it seemed to provide him with the chance to relax, because he "had" to. And I always stayed right with him. I know some families use a drive in the car, so I guess we just brought that inside! Hang in there, there's got to be a solution somehow!
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Old 08-29-2002, 03:28 PM
 
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I didn't know what AP was with my dd#1, but we did a lot of that, even though I was working p/t, and my friend watched her and she had bottles of EBM (sorry, off-topic). When she was 10 mos. old, she stopped falling asleep while nursing, whereas previously she had mostly nursed, or occasionally been patted to sleep on a shoulder (usually dh). We tried EVERYTHING to get her to sleep at night: nurse, rock, sing, walks outside, rides in the car, lying down with her, just EVERYTHING, and she would not go to sleep. She still had her 2 naps a day, but would not sleep at night (she took 2 naps regularly), and she'd be bleary-eyed at 1 or 2 am and collapse on the floor finally.

I swore up and down I would NEVER do Ferber, because it just sounded awful, but three weeks later, there we were at the library b/c we were EXHAUSTED--we would take turns being up with her and the other would crash at about 9 pm every other night. Plus I was taking call, and plus dh was teaching TAing some classes. We did a very gentle, modified Ferber, where you're supposed to do 5 min the first day, 10 the second, and we went in every 5 min. for about 3 days, etc. After a couple of nights of AGONY (where we lay on the bed and cried while she cried in the other room) we noticed that she cried actually more when we went back in several times, (every 5 min) so we just stopped going in, and she actually fell asleep faster. It took about five days, and she actually learned to lay down and fall asleep by herself (and her Big Lamb). I don't know what else I would have done in that situation, even now. I would get my hands on Dr. Sears' Nighttime Parenting, even for dealing with naps (if I remember right--I haven't read it for several months now). I just think that occasionally, we have situations in which a certain philosophydoesn't cut it--we just have to assess the situation and do what we can. We really need those breaks from our kids to be thrilled about them and happy to be with them when they have rested and we have rested. So hang in there--the right "method" will present itself for you!

Has she cut any teeth? I was just wondering if she seems to be in any pain. Dd #1 was fussy but not too bad with teeth--dd#2 is HORRIBLE cutting teeth--it's agony for her, and so when she was teething a whole week was lost for being productive, cleaning, anything except baseline necessities.
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Old 08-29-2002, 08:14 PM
 
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Ladies, I am just so excited that I had to tell you all. My dh finished his masters in June and we have been living in the basement apartment of his parents house since May. Arghhhhhh! Well, he finally had a couple of phone interviews and now Xerox is flying us both out to Oregon for an onsite interview. He is scheduled to interview and they have a real estate agent who shows me around during the interview period. I am so very, very excited.
The amazing thing is, this is the area we have wanted to be in all along. He even interviewed with another division of Xerox a while back. And Michael has been telling everyone for over a year now that we are going to move to "Po'land". He's never been to Portland and I wondered where he was coming up with that, but now I wonder...

As far as the sleep thing, I don't know what to tell you. We have struggled with Michael's sleeping from day one. He is nearly 4 and still doesn't sleep well. Some of the things we find help:
- we try to be very, very active and outdoors in the morning. This can lead to a nap before 1pm and that seems to be important
- keep him away from allergens (he has lots, and lots) as well as sugar and food colorings. Mostly fruits and veggies and not much refined grains.
- since he is 4 we use a reward system for when he stays in his room and lets mom and dad sleep. I try not to tell him he has to be asleep, but rather he has to let mom and dad sleep. I set and alarm clock in his room and he can get us when it goes off (at 6am)

My struggles are with the conflict he recognizes between the adults. MIL is very much against co-sleeping and dh likes it in theory but wakes so easily that having and extra person in the bed keeps him awake. I was sleeping in Michael's room some, but I miss dh at night. Michael of course uses the conflict to his advantage and keeps us up all night.
I wish all the best for you. I know how crummy it is to not get any sleep. And if any of you have any suggestions for our sleep (or lack thereof) situation, I am ALL ears

Sarah
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Old 08-30-2002, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Congrats, RasJane! We were in the interview stage a year ago, and I know how scary, fun, confusing, etc. That time can be. Definitely emotional. last summer we lived w my sister in vegas. she has 4 kids, so there were 10 of us. it is stressful not having your own place.

i've had the ap discussion on my mind for awhile. so far, most ap things don't work or make sense to me. i agree with gentle discipline and bf on demand. i have found the sling to be great for outings. i like it much better than lugging the carseat around, only having to take her out anyway because she's crying. I don't get the babywearing thing, though. I guess I understand if your baby wants to be held all the time, you have no choice, but mine is perfectly content to sit in her little seat and look around or sleep. If she wants to be held, I hold her until she falls asleep. I don't see why people think they HAVE TO sleep with their kids. If they like it, great, if not, there are other ways. You can still have great, happy, attatched, loved kids who sleep on their own. I really like learning about ap from you guys. Fill me in a little if I seem off. I'm NOT trying to put down AP or any of your parenting styles, I'm just trying to understand it better. I've been searching for a more gentle approach to parenting because my mother has always been so gentle with me, yet I did NOT get the gentle gene. I think every parent has different limits about different things. Mine is definitely sleep! We've used parts of Ferber for our kids. We still say, "if you stay in your bed, we can keep your door open." We've rarely had problems, although since the baby we've had to remind them a few times. As far as nursery and babysitters, I've found that If I'm not anxious about leaving them, they do better with the separation. My dh has stayed with them in nursery for the first little while, but I think it is just because he wanted to skip sunday school! Whenever I've dropped them off, I've said I have to go to my class now, have fun in your class. Every kid is different, though! There was a girl in our old ward that had mom or dad with her every day until Primary. Then, she didn't want them with her anymore! Sorry this is so long, I've just had it on my mind, and needed someone to fill in the blanks. I've also stopped about 5 times to help the kids, so if it makes no sense, forgive me, Sarah
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Old 09-01-2002, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, so I got a brain and looked up Dr. Sears and some other AP stuff on the web and it cleared stuff up for me. Maybe I'm AP after all. I hop you weren't offended by my dumbness, and i hope that's not why nobody's replied. you're all just having a more exciting holiday than i am, right?

Chumani, it is so great to know im not the only scoutwife on here. thanks for the brownies, they were delicious. my weekend was fine.

i have to give an enrichment class on finding joy in life. any ideas?
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