Biblical Marriage with Wife Submission Tribe - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 09-30-2005, 12:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Nabbe
If not, only to show christians i know that islam is not the only religion where women are submissive
I think the Christians here at MDC know about other religions. The Christians, imho, who do not know and who do not care usually do not come to MDC and if they do, they bolt and run.
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Old 09-30-2005, 12:10 PM
 
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Hi hotmamacita! How are you?
I am good. And, I am curious about the direction this thread will go in.

Submission is something that has been abused in Christendom, and other religions, as a tool to control or silent. So it can be a loaded and misunderstood Biblical concept.

I have a lot to say about marriage and my relationship with God. I am really conservative in this. But So conservative that sometimes I believe that submission means walking away when the 'leader' is going in bad directions. It also can mean staying, setting boundaries, and loving the sinner but hating the sin. I know...this is sticky ground...but we have to honor what God puts on our hearts in marriage.

I do believe GOd has created men to be leaders of the family and protectors and pursuers of Truth. I do believe God has created us to love and nuture but we also have incredible strength and conviction to bring to the family unit. OUr voices need to be voices in order to be able to withhold them wisely at times. Does that make sense?

Those of you know know me, know that I tend not to be engaged in current trends within Christianity...so if 'Biblical marriage' is a term these days, I am ignorant about it. But I AM wondering if perhaps we could be the "Honoring God in our Marriage Tribe" so others might be invited to participate.

Not trying to take control here just a thought.
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Old 09-30-2005, 03:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hotmamacita
I think the Christians here at MDC know about other religions. The Christians, imho, who do not know and who do not care usually do not come to MDC and if they do, they bolt and run.
I meant, people in my surrounding. Like for instance, to tell it to my aunt when she start going on and on about how free she is as a pentecostal church woman, and how unfree muslim women are. Not people in here

Mother of three little muslims!
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Old 09-30-2005, 03:47 PM
 
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Need topoint out that what kindd of submission we are referring to is not some twisted "lady lay down cause man told her to", it is submission to your own husband. Not other men, not a pastor, etc. I come from a long background of wrong teachings re: submission and authority, and we were taught taht the pastor was in total authority over us , in every area of our lives. All the way down to having his way with young ggirls and married women in the church.

We are to submit ourselves to those in authority over us, as in police officers, who act as the arm of the lord in justice.

But we are referring to "submit yourself to your own husband, as unto the Lord"...................

Our husbands, when we accept them as the imperfect creatures they are, will blossom and grow.
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Old 09-30-2005, 04:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by joyfulhands
Ok ladies--fill up my mind w/ your wisdom. . .

It's good for me that this thread popped up when it did. . .

I think sometimes that I am so much more of a. . .'take action' kind of person, not afraid of making decisions. . .am much 'louder' than dh. . .I mean, I have a more 'leader' personality in our relationship I feel sometimes. . .he's def. the shyer one.

I always talk to him about family issues, etc. . .and am fully willing/ready to give him the final say. . . I so believe that God gave us different but equally wonderful roles. .

I just feel like sometimes, just by personality, he just happily goes along with my decisions. He brings in the money, keeps track of everything financially. . .but--ack I'm rambling REALLY badly so

I don't feel like I'm submissive--because--it's hardly an issue. I want to please God.
Our family seems to be much the same way. I'm a natural born leader and a go-getter type, where my dh is much more just go with the flow. No matter what I want, he's usually ok with it. He wants to me to be happy and is pretty much ok with anything I want. I'm a complete tightwad and somewhat skeptical though, so I don't tend to go overboard. But the fact is, if I want or think something, he's pretty ready to go along with it.

I agree with your feelings, it doesn't feel submissive. I think that feeling means I need to step back and watch myself.

I've noticed that a lot of times he'll be talking about something that I have a different opinion on and I'll blurt mine out and he'll just listen. He's just like that. But I think I should sit and listen to him, consider him, and value him. In fact sometimes I think I ought not have said anything at all...it would have been better just to let him voice his opinion and agree. No need for me to be right all the time :LOL

Sometimes I feel frustrated because he doesn't just stand up and take charge; I either want to take charge because he "won't" or I want to nag him until he does. But then I realize that if I just calmed down and got patient instead of heading in with my take-charge steamroller personality, he might end up taking charge himself and doing a good job of it.

I think I really just need lessons in "be sweet and ladylike and sit quietly so that your husband actually has a chance to lead." Or else I need a WAHM to make me a zipper custom fitted for my lips

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel like if I would just sit back and give him the chance to lead without jumping in, or without getting frustrated, he would begin to lead more often, no matter how laid back he is... It seems so hard though...God give me wisdom!

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Old 09-30-2005, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Skrimpy

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel like if I would just sit back and give him the chance to lead without jumping in, or without getting frustrated, he would begin to lead more often, no matter how laid back he is... It seems so hard though...God give me wisdom!
This is EXACTLY how it was in our home. Rich would never make decision. He would never follow through. He would want me to decide. It drove me nuts at times.

I nagged, I complained, I cried. He stopped talking to me. As you can see by my post count.....I like to talk!

I thought our emotional relationship was over. I could not see how it could be repaired. We didn't even know eachother anymore.

Then the Lord started to lead me to find the answers. I realied, by the grace of God, that if I wanted Rich to act like a man, I had better be treating him like one!

I have never looked back! From the moment that light bulb went on......everything has been beautiful! : I am a new creature and so is he. He is so manly! He can take charge, make decisions......I just needed to move out of his way so that he could. And then support him unconditionally, so that he was not afraid to fail.

I am go very greatful that the Lord should this to me so early in our marriage. We have been together for almost 5 years. I just pray that other woman learn this before it is too late in their marriages and they lose their families.

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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Old 09-30-2005, 04:37 PM
 
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at the risk of being flamed into a crispy critter, i just recently acquired and read a book called Created To Be His Helpmeet. it has opened my eyes to alot of things,,, and why my parent's marriage failed.
How is recommending a book by the Pearl's allowed here?

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Old 09-30-2005, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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How is recommending a book by the Pearl's allowed here?
The book Created to be His Help Meet does not contain any information that is against MDC UA.

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Old 09-30-2005, 04:54 PM
 
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The Pearl's have also written a marriage book?

-----------------------------------------

Anyway, I love what so many of you have written. This is an encouraging thread and please forgive me if I am dumping my own caution here.

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Old 09-30-2005, 04:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Nabbe
I meant, people in my surrounding. Like for instance, to tell it to my aunt when she start going on and on about how free she is as a pentecostal church woman, and how unfree muslim women are. Not people in here
I should have asked what you meant. And I really should not post when I am feeling ill.

I woke up slightly feverish today with a sore throat and whiny.

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Old 09-30-2005, 04:58 PM
 
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I hope you get well soon. I love reading the posts here. It makes me feel... dont know... happy to know that also nonmuslims live like we do. Same like when i read about christian women covering...

Mother of three little muslims!
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Old 09-30-2005, 05:02 PM
 
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Old 09-30-2005, 05:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hotmamacita
The Pearl's have also written a marriage book?

-----------------------------------------

Anyway, I love what so many of you have written. This is an encouraging thread and please forgive me if I am dumping my own caution here.

Unfortunately, yes.

There have been a couple of on-going reviews...

http://razorbackmama.blogspot.com/20...chapter-1.html (go to the main page to see the rest of the reviews)

http://spunkyhomeschool.blogspot.com...et-part-1.html (5 part review, and this review was reviewed by The Old Homeschool magazine).

I hesitate to post this, b/c I know this is a "support" thread, and I certainly support "Biblical Marriage", but I just don't support it as defined by Debi Pearl... in the reviews above, serious concerns have been raised about the theology in the books and of the Pearls (semi-Pelaganism).

I apologize once again for intruding into a support thread, but I just really would encourage those reading the Helpmeet book to also read Spunky & Kristin's review... Kristin's review especially does a great job of gleaning the good while highlighting the questionable.

An extrovert, married to my introverted dh since '01, mothering my girls C (2003) and G (2006).

 

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Old 09-30-2005, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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As with any book, you are going to find people who love it and people who do not.

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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Old 09-30-2005, 05:23 PM
 
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To the OP have you had the opportunity to do the Excellent Wife study and your dh do the Exemplary Husband?
This book opened my eyes to serving him (with a servants heart) and what that really entails. But as I learned since I am in charge of certain aspects of our marriage, if I leave them to him to make a decision on it, it doesn't happen b/c he expects me to have that say. He knows my will, will be done, if it is strong enough to do it -- so by no means are we a perfect example.
But we have learned from another older wiser couple that this came about b/c my dh was in the Army and I was expected to be the decision maker while he was away on many deployments, it never occured to us that his making decisions and my making decisions without discussing them was an issue until recently.
Having another couple older and wiser to mentor you and your husband in the paths of submission in an honest to goodness Biblical manner is very helpful. Books are great and have a purpose, but to see the acts lived out really helps. Marriage conferences are great for this.
Love and Respect is a hailed book as well.
We celebrate 10 yrs of marriage today, all happy, all great, and everyday a blessing. I hope you get what you want out of this thread. Personally, I like debates and I like to see what people have to say in defending their positions. It's helpful in realating to others who do not hold the same views to know where it is they are coming from -- but as you said another thread...
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Old 09-30-2005, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Electra375....I just got The Excellent Wife. I have not started it yet...just skimmed through it.

Congrats on 10 years of marriage! That is wonderful!!!

PS Our children are almost the same age

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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Old 09-30-2005, 05:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabbe
I hope you get well soon. I love reading the posts here. It makes me feel... dont know... happy to know that also nonmuslims live like we do. Same like when i read about christian women covering...
I have a lot of respect for women in coverings, I believe they are being protected (for lack of a better word at the moment). I want that protection. Do me stare at women in full dresses with head covering other than 'that's weird' look? Even being over weight, I have men undressing me with their eyes and it is sickening to me. I believe a head covering for myself could be in my future, I feel lead to do so. I wish I could break through to be the non-conformist in dress and cover (but so far I'm a jeans and sneakers mom, except for meetings at schools or going to church).

Yes, there are Christian homes that live as true to the Word of God as they can, praying for guidance in all things, were women do not lead the house, but let the men be the head of the household as Christ is head of the Church. In which, a wife does play a role in discussion, but ultimately the decision rest with her husband and she respects his decision in obeidence. Unless the decision he has made is a sin at which point, in a Christian home the woman serves Christ first, then her husband, then her children. And hopefully, the husband is serving Christ first b/c then the women does not have to endure the burden of serving Christ or her husband and she does not need to worry whether there is such an issue as I did in regards to homeschooling nearly 2 yrs ago. My dh wanted our ds1 in public school, I did not. I felt lead to homeschool, my dh knew that was not going to work b/c of who I am. He was right and as he stated later, if I really felt so lead to homeschool, I would have gone through with it regardless of what he said :LOL So by no means is my marriage perfect -- we are always growing and learning as a couple.
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Old 09-30-2005, 08:02 PM
 
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SO many wise humble women here. I just love it.
Someone else said it but it bares repeating.

If your dh doesn't seem like a leader type it might be because he doesn't think there is any hope of him being allowed to lead. Men have a curious way of rising to the occaision when we let go of our firm grip of control. but don't expect it to happen over night.

I say it about homeschooling and I will say it about giving up control - how much damage could possibly be done in a month? 6 months? a year? just let go and see what happens. You can always start nagging again if that works better for you

I have had to sit on my opinion a lot. Dh and i just communicate differently. if I don't agree, sharing my opnion shuts him down. he doesn't see it as a spirited conversation. he sees it as me thinking I am right and trying to convince him. So I save spirited conversations and debating and voicing my opnion for here and for our mommy get togethers. when he has an opinion I either agree or do the whole "wow, I will have to think on that" or "intresting perspective". (intrested but non-commital and evasive) and wait until he drags it out of me. otherwise a passionate conflicting opinion just makes him feel judged, unheard etc . So not worth it for the sake of what I would consider an intresting conversation. Granted I would speak respectfully but still disagreeabl;e on something important but not on just chit chat.

granted though, dh and i have a lot of digging to do to get out of the grave our marriage has been in.

Some othe rbooks with intresting perspectives:
womens: Gods Secret Weapon by Ed Silvoso this one isn't specifically about mariage or submission but it does talk about womens role in the church and in the family and with men and where it ought to be vs where it is (it bridges that under the curse of eve vs restored gap) and unlike books written specifically towards women it addresses what the men ought to be doing. granted this may depress some people but it also helped me see that God is doing a work in my DH and I need to step out of the way and not hinder that process because what God is doing in my dh will directly effect how my dh treats me.

Love & respect - This has been a theme in the church recently. and in every book I have ever read. I haven't actualy read this one but it is on my list and comes highly recomended.

For women Only I have read parts of this one and it has truely touched my heart.

the last have a lot of common themes. I am overwhelmed by mens need for respect over love. because it is easy for me to love but much mich harder for me to respect. Also I am only beginning to understand my dhs need to be the provider and be a good provider. why it is so much harder for him to accept poverty and how it isn't a pride thing but more of if he can't let us be presentable and comfortable and running over with happiness and having everythign we ant he feels like a failure as a provider and when I nag him about being a better father when he works to much it confuses him because he is slaving away trying to be a better father. men are so complicated! Anyway I have to be very careful not to judge his motives because they may seem obvious to me but I am coming at it from a completely different set of goals and standards.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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Old 09-30-2005, 09:16 PM
 
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I didn't like The Excellent Wife. Its not that I disagreed with its premise or theological basis but I didn't like the way it was written or its formulaic prescription, imo.

I like Larry Crabb's MEN AND WOMEN: Enjoying the Difference and Larry Crabb's The Silence of Adam though.
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Old 09-30-2005, 09:16 PM
 
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Oh and I LOVE what Scripture says about marriage.
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Old 09-30-2005, 10:03 PM
 
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Hi ladies,
I just stumbled upon you all and feel as though its no accident. I am a....struggling believer. I read "The Power of a Praying Wife" and I truly believe that it must be really peaceful to have the sort of marriage you all are talking about. I just haven't found my comfort with it yet. DH isn't a Christian and I'm so new.

Will come back later......gotta run!!!!
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Old 09-30-2005, 11:20 PM
 
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mommaj.
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Old 10-01-2005, 12:34 AM
 
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Another one definitely worth reading,, "Woman , Get in the Army of God", by Dawn Wilson. Not specifically about marriage, but about being all that God wants you to be in his kingdom.. which includes being a helpmeet
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Old 10-01-2005, 01:08 AM
 
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mamaJ

It i so hard submitting when you aren't sure your dh is going to walk in the places God is leading. but know that when you are following your dh's lead, being obedient to Christ, and submitting with a joyful heart, you will open the flood gates of God's blessing. I have seen many dhs submit thier lives to Christ when they see the change in thier wives attitudes. it has been amazing to watch.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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Old 10-01-2005, 01:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BetsyPage
Unfortunately, yes.

There have been a couple of on-going reviews...

http://razorbackmama.blogspot.com/20...chapter-1.html (go to the main page to see the rest of the reviews)

http://spunkyhomeschool.blogspot.com...et-part-1.html (5 part review, and this review was reviewed by The Old Homeschool magazine).

I hesitate to post this, b/c I know this is a "support" thread, and I certainly support "Biblical Marriage", but I just don't support it as defined by Debi Pearl... in the reviews above, serious concerns have been raised about the theology in the books and of the Pearls (semi-Pelaganism).

I apologize once again for intruding into a support thread, but I just really would encourage those reading the Helpmeet book to also read Spunky & Kristin's review... Kristin's review especially does a great job of gleaning the good while highlighting the questionable.
Hmm good reviews, but again it's just the old "some people agree, some people don't." For instance, in the second review she scolds Debbi Pearl for not saying anything about Christ being the refuge for the woman with many children whose husband left her...but I don't agree that she was trying to make a point about Christ being a spiritual refuge...I think she's speaking purely in practical terms, so I think this review is skewed. (for instance, I've repented of all my stupid money mistakes and I take refuge in Christ, but I don't expect him to suddenly have all my debts forgiven...so in this instance repenting to Christ may not provide a complete refuge in the sense that all of a sudden the woman and her many children will be taken care of with the breadwinner gone).

That got rambly. Anyways, some like it, some don't. I suppose it depends on what you get out of it. Blah and I'm going to stop because I honestly hate debates and don't know why I typed all that out heh.

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Old 10-01-2005, 03:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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mommaJ.....I am glad you found us

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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Old 10-01-2005, 03:22 AM
 
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i hope i have on too

Your life doesnât change by the man whos elected. If your loved by someone you can't be rejected... decide what to be and go be it! If your a caged bird brake in and demand that somebody free it.
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Old 10-01-2005, 03:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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i hope i have on too
Hi lovebug!!!

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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Old 10-01-2005, 06:12 AM
 
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What a great thread
I love reading all your advice, book recommondations (and warnings), and how you - like me - are strong-willed women struggling too.

1. What concrete changes are you most happy/proud about that have happened in your marriage/your behaviour since you chose to submit?

2. What concrete changes are you most desperate about wanting to change?

For me:
1. I am learning to listen more. Be more interested in him and his point of view.
2. Keep quiet when he speaks on the phone If I know who he is talking to and what the conversation is about, I can sometimes comment and advice him what to say. God forgive me and change me.

A book I have recently read and which opened my eyes to my role as wife is Elisabeth George, A Woman After God's Heart (I think the title is). It was radical enough for me and I am still meditating on it and trying to implement what I feel God is calling me to.
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Old 10-01-2005, 11:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Europeanmom
2. Keep quiet when he speaks on the phone If I know who he is talking to and what the conversation is about, I can sometimes comment and advice him what to say. God forgive me and change me.
: : : :

you must be my european twin sister mysteriously separated at birth
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