#2 Biblical Marriage/Wife Submission Thread - Page 10 - Mothering Forums

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#271 of 587 Old 01-16-2006, 05:19 PM
 
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Lilyka, it sounds a lot like you really need closure on this one way or another. You deserve validation that you've been seriously hurt by all this. You deserve it from your husband but if it's not going to come from him then talking to a counsellor on your own would be a so good. You deserve to be listened to with respect. I can hear the pain of unresloved issues pouring through your writing.
I feel really sad for you in this situation. I've been there (well, I can't say exactly there because everyone's situations are unique) but a lot of the feelings I get from you resonate with my not-too-distant past. The way to clear the burning anger/resentment/frustration/hurt from within is for you to be able to really face those feelings head-on in a safe and supportive real-life environment where you are truly being heard.
Writing letters to her and discarding them is fine, but it's a tiny tool in the huge amount of healing work that you need to do for yourself. I know "huge amount" sounds daunting and scary. But really, it's not that much once the first hurdle is crossed. The hurdle is opening up your hurt to someone who truly has *your* best interest in mind.
Your feelings are natural and are signs of your strength. It sounds to me like you could use a bit of guidance in channeling those feelings productively on a path of healing and growth through all this.
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#272 of 587 Old 01-16-2006, 05:58 PM
 
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the wisdom pouring from you mamas is incredible. I have absolutely nothing to add lilyka,other than I am thinking of you,praying for you,and asking our awesome God to bring you peace that passes all understanding.

Kim
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#273 of 587 Old 01-17-2006, 12:47 PM
 
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You know, I agree with pretty much everything fish (can I call you fish too?? Pretty please? ) and whimsy said. And I do think it would most likely be an effort in futility to contact this homewrecker. At least at this point. I think your focus has to be your husband--maybe if he will come to the point where he will at least acknowledge your value to *you* then you won't need it to be acknowledged by this woman quite so much? I dunno....

What I do know, though, is that there *is* a time and place for righteous anger. Be ye angry and sin not.....you can be angry and even act on that anger in a righteous way. I think in your shoes I would probably draw a line somewhere.....say maybe "If this homewrecker ever attempts to contact my dh, or interact with my family ever again (unless it's with a sincere apology), I will bring her world crashing down upon her head."

And I would do it, too. I'm thinking that Christ prolly did more than swat at flies with that scourge he made, you know?

I totally agree with fish that God sees this woman in a way that you cannot. Perhaps she is a child of God--if so, she will be held accountable for her part in all of this. And I'm all in favor of leaving vengence to God. But there is a point at which you have every right--perhaps even an obligation--to stand up and fight for your family, fight for truth and honor and marriage and Godliness and everything else that these two made a mockery of.

And I just can't encourage you to submit to her shenanigans IF she continues to try to invade your sacred fortress. I hope that she won't--I hope she just quietly fades into oblivion and someday the mention of her name will cease to cause a knot in your stomach. And that's possible--God can do that!

But if I were you, I'd have my defenses ready. I'd know exactly when, and how, to use them. I'd make it clear (to your dh) just exactly how you intend to defend your family if the need arises (ie, if he does not defend you as he ought). And then I'd sit back, love your family, honor your dh, get on with your life, and if this silly jezabel does do something extremely foolish, then I would hold her accountable in a way she would never forget.

But that's just me....

Sarah, Queen of Hearts, raising a Full House with Michael, King of my Heart!
DS (2/02), DD (3/04), DS (1/06), DD (12/07), and DS (3/10)
~~*~~Not your typical Pastor's Wife!~~*~~
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#274 of 587 Old 01-17-2006, 01:59 PM
 
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Oh Lilyka...I am so sorry you are having to deal with the fallout from your DH's fantasy tour. I too was in a similar situation. I wanted SO badly to attack the other woman - you have NO idea. In my case (and I recount this for your benefit but for mine too....I haven't spoken of it for such a long time) dh's high school sweetheart came out of the woodwork 5 weeks after we got married. She was "the one who got away" as far as he was concerned...it was all down hill from there. DH and I were getting settled into the marriage thing and really butting heads as we tried to figure out what our new roles were. And she was right there to prey on his insecurities about the new marriage.
He let me read every e-mail and IM with her (hours a day of that crap...very little of it benign) thinking if he was "open and honest" about it I couldn't have a problem with the two of them "just talking." But it never ends there in these kinds of situations. This went on for months. He wrote her love letters, they spoke for hours a night on his cell phone, she talked of leaving her husband, she sent him gifts, she flew to see him in CA when he was working there. He swore nothing happened but, even if, an emotional affair is still an affair. He cried over his love for her. Over his lost opportunity. I cried, and tore my hair, and pled, and begged... nothing changed his heart to see how wrong his actions were. He actually convinced himself that since she was in a bad marriage, he was counseling her and doing the Christian thing by not turning his back on her. <Gag> He refused counseling too. To this day he maintains his belief that he did nothing wrong.

The day she flew to see him in CA was the infamous Sept. 11th. Never in my life have I wished so hard for a particular plane to go crashing to ground! :

Finally, I gave him an ultimatum that he was to have no contact with her. He agreed. OR did he... I came home early one day from work to see him penning a 6 page letter to her ...he had a secret e-mail address too...and changed the address for billing statement on his cell phone. I sat there impotently because I had never really intended to walk away. Those things don't work unless there is force behind them. And it is the force of the actions that support such choices that actually does the final breaking of a marriage rather than begins to heal it. who ever heard of an ultimatum being met with a "Oh my goodness! YOur right! How could I have been so stupid?!??"

I realized the the only way she would be out of my life was for him to wish her to be. The only way that was ever going to happen was if he loved me so much that he would do absolutely anything to see me happy. So I served and I served and I bit my tongue. More than a year later he finally told her he would no longer be calling her and that she was on her own...without my prodding or insistence. Right result, but leaving a field of destruction behind him...

The aftermath? I was wrecked. I didn't trust him (I still don't in the absolute total way I should...the way that would allow me to love him most and best). I still wonder when, not if, he will betray my trust again. Our marriage is so much stronger, so much better than it was even before this woman arrived on the scene and yet I know there could still be more.

I wanted to get this woman out of our life. When she came to CA I drove to where my dh was staying (his parents house while they were in Europe) to confront this woman. Dh was still playing the "open and honest" game and I was dying. I met her. I had to eat dinner with her. My choices were to accompany them everywhere, or to let them be together alone. Talk about pain. I was truly the third wheel as I watched them hold hands and reminisce. :Puke
She was in a terrible marriage (according to DH). I actually pled with her, through my tears , as she packed to leave, to leave dh alone. That he was fixated on this old high school "could have been" feeling and it was ruining our marriage because she was willing to entertain it. It empowered her. She redoubled her efforts. She enjoyed seeing me get worked up about it. It was sick.

Contacting the other woman wont help. It takes a certain kind of person to be one half of an adulterous equation. I mean this both about my husband and about Her. It takes the kind of person who can rationalize their actions, who can twist reality to support their actions, who can meet the responses of others with indifference or dismissal convincing themselves the response is out of line. It takes someone who is blinded to God by self-interest.

I have written so many letters I didn't send. I have cried so many times for unhealed hurts. Time will pass, but the scars will only fade. They will never truly go away, in my opinion. What remains is a wife and a husband and a duty to each other and to God. I said my marriage is infinitely stronger now than it was then - and it is. Despite my pain, I realized there was so much I was not doing at the time that allowed dh to rationalize looking elsewhere for female support and attention. I was not submitting, I was obstinate, I was not taking on any of my responsibilities as a wife other than sex. I was not his helpmeet but a hindrance, an albatross, another thing to worry about. I was not a joy to him when he came home. I was a harpy. As much as I can recognize the error of my ways, as much as I have done to change these things, it doesn't help the hurt. Talking to the OW won't either. It will only piss Dh off...as it did mine. It will get better, Lilyka. Your commitment to your Dh shines through your posts like a beacon. He will see it and he will cleave to you. He may never apologize in words (mine didn't) but his actions will speak for him as you continue to repair things.

I write about it dispassionately now, but it is still so painful if I think too hard about it. (And I'm crying as I re-read this) We have been married now for almost 5 years. It doesn't get easier, it just gets further away. And I become more entrenched in my dedication to fulfilling God's will for me as a wife. Without everything that happened, I likely would not now be the wife am. I would have missed the lesson on humility and biblical submission in its entirety.

Sorry for the tome... to all you wonderful women!
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#275 of 587 Old 01-17-2006, 02:49 PM
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Guys,

On one hand, I admire your self control and your ability to be humble and loving to your dh's in spite of what has happened but, on the other hand, I am very grieved at what I've been reading (and keeping my big mouth shut) over the past couple of days.

I really, honestly, believe you (collectively) deserve more respect than you're receiving.

There is such a thing as emotional adultry I don't know if it's breaking the law but Jesus did say if you lust in your heart you have lusted.

I don't want you all upset with me but I think you're all wonderful women and deserve more respect and more understanding than you're receiving.

I'll try to keep quiet but I will also be praying for you as well.

Debra Baker
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#276 of 587 Old 01-17-2006, 03:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DebraBaker
Guys,

On one hand, I admire your self control and your ability to be humble and loving to your dh's in spite of what has happened but, on the other hand, I am very grieved at what I've been reading (and keeping my big mouth shut) over the past couple of days.

I really, honestly, believe you (collectively) deserve more respect than you're receiving.

There is such a thing as emotional adultry I don't know if it's breaking the law but Jesus did say if you lust in your heart you have lusted.

I don't want you all upset with me but I think you're all wonderful women and deserve more respect and more understanding than you're receiving.

I'll try to keep quiet but I will also be praying for you as well.

Debra Baker
I appreciate a good non-submissive point of view from time to time. Not every woman has the same convictions. I admire that you at least have convictions and stand up for what you think is right as far as God is concerned. We are all believers and shouldn't always argue about the doctrinal issues that seem to constantly tear believers apart. Love going your way DB
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#277 of 587 Old 01-17-2006, 04:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lisa P
It empowered her. She redoubled her efforts. She enjoyed seeing me get worked up about it. It was sick.
Through personal experience (not with dh though) I have found this to be true every time. They see contact as weakness and believe that they have more of a chance than before.

I'm so sorry, Lilyka. I know there isn't anything that can ease the hurt, but this woman won't give you the closure or assurance that you are seeking. You will prove her wrong everyday that you walk with your head held high and behave like a daughter of God.
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#278 of 587 Old 01-17-2006, 05:13 PM
 
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wow LisaP - You are so strong. i would have beat that woman to a bloody pulp. I would have left without a doubt. You are an amazing woman.

Dh and I talked all day yesterday about me contacting her. (he brought it up) and it helped me realize what I needed. And it won't come from her. I want her to apologize. If she was sorry she would have done that by now. If she was too ashamed to approach me she wouldn't have contacted my dh again. If she thought she had ever been wrong she wouldn't have contacted him again. She doesn't get it. (he doesn't get it. he thinks it is perfectly reasonable that they could still be close friends : are they mental? absolutely mentally impared? ) I need him to acknowledge that she hurt me (still defends her as a great person and that he is the only person to blame) . all I want to hear is that yes I have a right to be mad at her and yes she owes the children and me an aplogy for what she did to us. That he holds her fully responsible for her actions. She knew and she did it anyway. but after 8 hours of going around in circles he still absolutely refused to say she was anything but a good person with a good heart and he was fully responsible. He has never once defended me like that. of course if he were to acknowledge that she hurt me he would be guilty of not defending me. of letting her doing it, providing the set for her to hurt me, and even probably enjoying the fact that she was hurting me. He can accept that he hurt me (no way around that one) but he will not admit (even to himself would be my bet) that he let, encouraged even, someone else to trash the girls and me like that.

We did come to tagreement that if she ever contatced him again I would be let loose with fury. And I don't care if he leaves me over it. But I will not only contact her but her family members, I may even track my butt up to Vancouver and have a face to face with her because this has got to end
.
And I know I would have been justified walking out of his office that day and never looking back. He wouldn't have even felt justified following me. But I would have been no less trespassed against, no less dissresepcted, no less hurt, alone, crushed, etc.. But I would be a single poor working mother. my children would have had thier whole lives turned upside down, I would have had to compromise my parenting ideals and cave on everything I hold dear. and I would have had to share them with her. :Puke over my cold hard body. but I would have been completely justified and no doubt blameless by any standard. (except for the girls - I still hold it against my dad for leaving my mom. I don't care if he spent every day of his life misreable, his children should have been worth it) I felt he owed me. and I wasn't about to let him be happy with that woman. no way. not in a million years. So maybe my original motivation was just me being pissy and possesive. I'll own that. But I do also feel strongly that some of God's blessings come from staying when you have every right to leave. It is hard for him to restore a marriage if you end it and move on.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#279 of 587 Old 01-17-2006, 05:57 PM
 
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Not strong, Lilyka. Just steadfast. Marriage is a one shot deal. I was not about to allow it to disintegrate without giving it EVERYTHING. Giving up was not an option.

Quote:
(he doesn't get it. he thinks it is perfectly reasonable that they could still be close friends : are they mental? absolutely mentally impared?
Yes they are mental...and still living in a world where what they did was ok. But that doesn't change You. It is SO hard for people to truly admit their faults...especially to themselves. Its generally the one's they cannot accept in themselves that they convince themselves don't exist.

I'm glad you and dh hashed things out, Lilyka. Eventhough I wouldn't have walked out, dh needed to be scared I would. And it did help things. You are walking in God's way now and it can only get better. Besides, if you do decide to take that roadtrip to Canada you'll have at least one cheerleader riding shotgun if you'll have me
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#280 of 587 Old 01-17-2006, 06:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DebraBaker
I really, honestly, believe you (collectively) deserve more respect than you're receiving.

I don't want you all upset with me but I think you're all wonderful women and deserve more respect and more understanding than you're receiving.
Thank you for your prayers Debra. I competely understand your response to the situations about which you've been reding here. But perhaps this is the crux of the matter when it comes to being a Biblical wife in this forum. It is the realization that I do not deserve anything in and of itself. No man nor woman does. Yes, feeling respected all the time would be nice, feeling understood, would be nice too. But is it my birthright? Shall I demand it? And what then? At what cost?
My birthright is that I am a child of God...we all are. Beyond that, the gifts I receive are just that - gifts given at His will, with His blessing. What happens when a child stamps her foot and demands a piece of cake, loudly, repeatedly? She might be given the cake, but for the wrong reasons (to quiet the demand, etc.). It is the same with respect. It is not a birthright. It is not damnded and then willingly given. It is earned. Just as the trust my husband desires from me is not automatically bestowed upon him because he wishes it to be so, neither is the respect I wish to be shown automatic. It is only through our day to day choices of working for eachother that the willingness to gift our spouse with those things becomes real. Yes I am called to obey and yes he is called to respect...but just as I fail in my obedience on occassion, so too does he loose sight of his obligation to love me as Christ loved the Church. We are a work in progress...both together and seperately. I obey, not to bolster his ego etc, but for God. With or without the respect he is surely asked to give me. But whether or not he does is between him and God.
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#281 of 587 Old 01-17-2006, 06:27 PM
 
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I forgot to tell you thank you for sharing yoru story. It is so rare to hear from the women that stay. It is so encouraging to hear that there are women who choose to stay and fight for thier marriage and that we are not mentally deranged for doing so.

And should I feel the nee to make the trip to Canada - me and you babe i don't know what we would do once we got there

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#282 of 587 Old 01-18-2006, 12:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Lisa P
It is the same with respect. It is not a birthright. It is not damnded and then willingly given. It is earned. Just as the trust my husband desires from me is not automatically bestowed upon him because he wishes it to be so, neither is the respect I wish to be shown automatic.
Babies are born deserving respect. It is a birthrigh, a *human right* to be treated with respect.
Trust is a contract which can be broken. Respect is a right.
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#283 of 587 Old 01-18-2006, 12:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamajama
Babies are born deserving respect. It is a birthrigh, a *human right* to be treated with respect.
Trust is a contract which can be broken. Respect is a right.
In fact I like a lot of the things you say. I am so glad you are here.
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#284 of 587 Old 01-18-2006, 08:00 PM
 
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I only have time to make a quick post but wanted to delurk and say that I'm very interested in your discussions. Sometimes I feel wayyy too dominating in our relationship and I'm finding your thread an inspiration - I think it has already helped. hmmmm.
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#285 of 587 Old 01-19-2006, 12:35 AM
 
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welcome

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#286 of 587 Old 01-19-2006, 12:44 AM
 
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Welcome.
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#287 of 587 Old 01-19-2006, 11:24 AM
 
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welcome daekini
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#288 of 587 Old 01-19-2006, 11:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamajama
Babies are born deserving respect. It is a birthrigh, a *human right* to be treated with respect.
Trust is a contract which can be broken. Respect is a right.
Its a nice sentiment Mamajama, and as much as I wish it were true, I have to respectfuly dissagree with you. We are all born with the inherent right to be treated as thinking, feeling, hungering, loving human beings...however, the respect to which I refered was the respect that is assumed to be inately "due" in a marriage. Not the respect of life to which you seem to be refering. I was speaking in a purely marital sense.

While I agree with you that we are all born with certain human rights (basically revoling around the concept that we are to be treated as human and not animal) I disagree that there is an inherrent right to be "respected" (in the colloquial sense) in general. In modern secular society there tends to be a supported view that says "don't take that tone with me, don't look at me that way, don't disrespect me...you have to respect me or else..." where, what I was getting at is that (using the old analogy) its putting the cart before the horse. Why would anyopne respect a spouse or even a friend or co-worker who took that type of approach. We cannot demand respect and expect to get it based on our demand for it and footstamping that it is out right. It is not. We would sooner get the colloquial idea of "respect" people seem to think is due them by acting in a way that makes one deserving of it.

Neither is it a contract, for that matter. When I give respect (or trust, while we're on the subject) I give it because the person to whom I am giving it is deserving of it and I give it without expectation of a return. A contract requires that you give something to get something. We are not under any duty to one another to respond in such a way. It is only thorugh selflessly choosing to be trustwothy or respectful of others without expecting to "get" something for our efforts that others will see us as sincere and want to treat us similarily. This holds true both in marriage and in life in general.
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#289 of 587 Old 01-19-2006, 11:56 AM
 
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When I give respect (or trust, while we're on the subject) I give it because the person to whom I am giving it is deserving of it and I give it without expectation of a return.
If this were the case it wouldn't work out very well either. We are as submissive women supposed to attempt to respect (and trust) people whether they "deserve" it or not. The bible doesn't say wives submit to your OWN husbands..."because they deserve it". I also don't see anywhere where it says love one another "because they "deserve" it. That would mean if they do wrong the DON'T "deserve" it. If we all got what we actually "deserved" everybody on earth would be in constant torment at the hand of God. Grace and Mercy covered that for us when Christ became our sacrafice. We are to treat all humans with respect and dignity (Yes, and trust them) whether they deserve it or not.

Trust may be broken but should never be completely lost. It is a growing process. Would you trust a three year old to babysit a 6 month old? No but you would trust them with a small task like helping pick up the toys. Trust should be linked with responsibility not love and respect. If you never trust somebody after they "do" something to you how can they ever function in the same light of your relationship. Your relationship is forever changed and that poor person is eternally on the short end of the stick with no chance of recovery. Not a good position to be in. I'm starting to again. I'm out for now.
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#290 of 587 Old 01-19-2006, 12:13 PM
 
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Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him;
Luk 17:4 and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, 'I repent,' you must forgive him."

Biblically, you only need to forgive if the trespasser repents.

or

Mat 18:21 Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?"
Mat 18:22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

490 times. Pick one. Or combine them. But do not forgive unless the transgressor repents.
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#291 of 587 Old 01-19-2006, 01:12 PM
 
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i have been thinking about th is over the last few days

just some breif random thoughts.

I have a feeling we all define respect differently.

I do not respect my children I love them and do what is right and what pleases God. I treat them how I would want to be treated. it has nothing to do with respect.

resepct is something that is conditional for me. I do not respond to my children, especially my babies, conditionally. what I give them is unconditional.

I had to look really hard to find a reason to respect my dh. I respected the crap out of that. as i respected him for that he became more respectable in other areas.

Most people will respect you if you are worthy of it. I think many of us judge ourselves more worthy of it than we are. at the same time if someone doesn't respect me I would do well to examine if I am acting in a worthy manner. If I am worthy it still doesn't make a lot of differene to me if they respect me. It might effect my willingness to hang out with them. My dh is different because i made a vow to stick with him through better and worse. I don't owe anyone else that.

I would not nessecarily trust a 3 year old to pick up blocks. only if they had proved trustworthy. at the same time i wouldn't hold that against a three year old. i don't expect babies to be all that trustworthy. But I don't trust my children until they prove trustworthy. Further more my childrens ability to follow through with cmpetence and know truth from lie is based largely on my parenting and how well I have taught them. so thier faults are my faults. I certainly wouldn't hold that against them. but at the same time unless they had proved trustworthy they wouldn't be trusted.

I can forgive without it effecting my whillingness to trust. I forgive my husband for the affair (daily) but will never trust him in that area completely again. i generally do not reserve forgiveness for people who repent. I have better things to do with my life then wait for repentance. weather or not they repent is between them and God.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#292 of 587 Old 01-19-2006, 03:42 PM
 
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Sorry if my previous post was offensive. That was not my intention
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#293 of 587 Old 01-19-2006, 04:12 PM
 
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Let's remeber please that this respect line of posting began because someone (or multiple someone's) said/implied that wives with imperfect husbands deserved more respect and should stand up for themselves and demand it. My posts were merely to drive home the point that eventhough each of us is called to behave in a particular way towards eachother (i.e. Husbands love honor and respect, etc.) that doesn't guarantee that you will be treated that way and demanding it isn't the best way to get it. This has all gotten very convoluted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa P
When I give respect (or trust, while we're on the subject) I give it because the person to whom I am giving it is deserving of it and I give it without expectation of a return.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afishwithabike
If this were the case it wouldn't work out very well either. We are as submissive women supposed to attempt to respect (and trust) people whether they "deserve" it or not. The bible doesn't say wives submit to your OWN husbands..."because they deserve it".
Even taking my words out of context cannont occlude their meaning. Never did I say that this somehow superceded my obligations according to the Bible. One can be deserving of my respect based soely on my biblical call to treat someone that way. Again, my focus here, was on the second half of the sentence...expectation. Demanding respect hinges on one feeling entitled and expecting that their actions will be met in kind. All I was saying was that I try to act well towards those around me, do my duty as a wife in terms of obedience/respect/whathaveyou but do it without getting my hackles up when the person on the receving end does not behave as he or she should or how I'd like them to. I choose to act as I should not to bask in the reward I get from the person on the other end treating me with equal care but to please God.
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#294 of 587 Old 01-19-2006, 04:26 PM
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I don't believe it is healthy for a woman (or a man for that matter) to just live under such circumstances.

I believe this is when there needs to be a mechanism for redress of grievences.

Not retribution but some redress.

If a man is not treating his wife appropriately there should be a proper way for a woman to handle the situation with dignity.

Debra Baker
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#295 of 587 Old 01-19-2006, 04:44 PM
 
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Oh fish, i hoppe you don't think i was offended by your post. My comments were breif not because I am angry but because i am having weird bone pain weirdness and it hurts to type.

i think ti is great that we are hashing out respect and trust and a persons entitlement (or lack there of) and what is a healthy way to deal with it and live where you are.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#296 of 587 Old 01-19-2006, 04:55 PM
 
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Checking in and catching up on the thread.

I have not been around much. Just wanted to say that I love you all!

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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#297 of 587 Old 01-20-2006, 02:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaryLLL
Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him;
Luk 17:4 and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, 'I repent,' you must forgive him."

Biblically, you only need to forgive if the trespasser repents.

or

Mat 18:21 Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?"
Mat 18:22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

490 times. Pick one. Or combine them. But do not forgive unless the transgressor repents.
Well, praise the Lord and pass me a popcicle, for once, I think we are in agreement!

I totally believe that forgiveness should not be handed out lightly--should only be granted where there are fruits of repentence. Unless it is asked for, I don't think forgiveness has much value, to either party. I know there are cases where the transgressor will never ask for forgiveness, say for example a child who is traumatized for years by a schoolyard bully, and there are those (therapists, counselors, etc) who would encourage that child to forgive the bully "for your own sake, so you can move past this" and I think that's fine, but I don't think it is at all the same as actual forgiveness. I think it is better called "coping" getting over past hurts and moving on with your life.

Forgiveness, IMO, always involves 2 parties, the transgressed and the transgressor. Actually, make that 3 parties, because the repentance is (should be) Godward.

All that said, I don't think that it is my place to judge whether repentance is "real" or not. IOW, if someone comes to me, begging forgiveness, then I should be willing to grant it wholeheartedly, unless/until it has been proven to me that they were not sincere in their repentance.

Okay, so that's a tangent, but I was so excited to actually agree with DaryLLL for once that I had to post, LOL!

Sarah, Queen of Hearts, raising a Full House with Michael, King of my Heart!
DS (2/02), DD (3/04), DS (1/06), DD (12/07), and DS (3/10)
~~*~~Not your typical Pastor's Wife!~~*~~
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#298 of 587 Old 01-20-2006, 02:44 AM
 
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I posted on the 1st wife submission thread. I have not posted on this one, but I am always reading and just want to say that I think you are all wonderful. Your stories are very inspiring.
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#299 of 587 Old 01-20-2006, 10:55 AM
 
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I just want to share something I've started doing in the last couple of years when I'm angry at dh. I used to just lash out and say whatever came to mind when I was angry, now I make myself wait till I'm not angry then go to dh and tell him what is on my mind. One of two things usually happens, I realize what I was angry about was just not worth being angry about or I know exactly what had me upset and I can tell dh in a manner that helps resolve the issue.
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#300 of 587 Old 01-20-2006, 02:32 PM
 
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Thats actually a good nugget for any relationship.

I was watching this show and they were working with a woman who had a tendency to run on at the mouth. for a whole day she had to write down what she wanted to say (she could not speak anything that wasn't writting down) and set a timer for 5 minutes. if she still thought it needed to be said after 5 mimutes she could say it. I think she said less that 10% of what she wrote down. and most of it was requests for help or something of that nature. no put downs, no come backs, no sarcasm, veryt few opinions. It made me really start contemplating "does this really need to be said."

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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