Eid Mubarak once again! - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 17 Old 02-12-2003, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Or, as they say in Morocco, M'brook l'Eid el-Kebir!

I've been off the computer for a few days; flu had me down for the whole weekend!

Now, my hands are red with henna, the lamb has been slaughtered, the charity has been dispensed, and Hajj is coming to an end.

While the holiday marks an end to the Hajj, it is also important for those of us who did not make the trip this year. Our family reflects on the submission of Abraham to the will of the Creator, and pledges to work harder to attain such peace within surrender, and to work harder to do good work on earth.

My prayers again are for peace among neighbors and among nations. I hope that we (MDCers) take the exemplary tolerance that we work to show one another here and employ it even better in our "real world" comings and goings.

I have been truly moved by the honest communication, patience, and spirit of gentle forthrightness I have seen of late in Spirituality.

I wish you all peace and warmth and comfort...and of course LOVE.

Peace be upon us all.
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#2 of 17 Old 02-12-2003, 07:50 PM
 
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Umm Nuh, a beautiful holiday to you ...

Have you ever made (is that the right word? performed?) the Hajj? Or your DH?

I imagine it's a spiritual high of a lifetime.

Is it different for men and women? Whenever I've seen pictures on the news of the Hajj it's always of only men, but I believe women are required to do it (perform it?) too ... is that right?

Okay, I hope that's not a hijack of a thread ... just hoping to learn ...



- Amy
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#3 of 17 Old 02-12-2003, 09:27 PM
 
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#4 of 17 Old 02-13-2003, 05:28 AM
 
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I saw in the news todat about a bunch of men killed in a crush/ stampede near the wall where they throw stones? I will try to find the article in the morning but I can't see straight right now. So sad.

Please tell me muslim sisters, what is an appropriate greeting from a non-muslim on this occasion?
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#5 of 17 Old 02-13-2003, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have not gone, nor has my dh. In fact, no one in his family has ever gone, to my knowledge. I think his parents are now waiting for him to pay their tickets, since he's in AMerica now...but I am afraid it will be a while before I have the chance, too.

Muslims greet one another with Eid Mubarak, or whatever greeting is similar in other languages...and it means a "Blessed Holiday," so...I think that would be a perfectly nice thing to say.

Mm is right, I think, about the men making better footage. Since they wear more or less the same "uniform," the racial and ethnic diversity of the Hajj is pretty striking. And the waves of people clothed in white are too...I know people have been crushed at that same point in the pilgrimage before, and it seems to be a growing problem due to the ever-larger crowds gathering for Hajj. WHen you see photos from the early 20th century, it's just a few thousand people making the circumambulation around the Ka'aba. Now it's just a moving mass. I do hope the local municipalities, or whatever authorities the Saudis have set up over these sites, step in soon to start watching over safety of the pilgrims.
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#6 of 17 Old 02-13-2003, 02:32 PM
 
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Well Blessed Holiday to you all then! (Day late and a dollar short, I know!)

Yes Umm Nuh, it is beginning to seem that it is a rare year that doesn't bring Hajj fatalities... and there were fewer deaths in this incident than I recall hearing of in the past. I can't imagine it would be an easy thing to control. They could try to set up schedules and require reservations, passes whatever, but who wants to be the guy who confronts someone who has come all that way on her Hajj and tell her, "No, sorry... go away. Maybe next year."? No one! And of course as soon as you start any control measures it is open to unfair practices, bias, and at least charges of bias.... tough business.
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#7 of 17 Old 02-13-2003, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Exactly. And of course, we want to be idealistic and think that religious pilgrims would always first and foremost respect their brothers' and sisters' bodily welfare...and no one feels good about mixing religion into a political system that is...well...questionable. I mean, not all Muslims support the current Saudi govt...
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#8 of 17 Old 02-13-2003, 05:12 PM
 
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Forgive me for hijacking but can you make the Hajj at any time? I mean do you have to wait for Eid Mubarak or can you go when the spirit moves you?
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#9 of 17 Old 02-13-2003, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Your post made me giggle, 3boys, since this Eid is called Eid-ul-Adha, which refers to the slaughter of the sheep that Abraham made in the place of his son.
Hajj must be made during the prescribed time, which is leading up to the Eid. The holy sites can be visited, though, and rituals performed, at any time, only this is known as 'Umra, and it is a sort of "lesser" pilgrimage.
From what I have heard, nothing compares to Hajj. For those who believe in the resurrection of all souls on the Last Day for judgment, I have heard that what one sees and hears and feels on Hajj evokes that sort of feeling...people from really all over the world, all walks of life, come together in one place and one time, and for one moment they forget their usual concerns.
Of course, I have also heard from sisters that moving in these crowds isn't always so wonderful...I guess some brothers can't keep their hands to themselves, even on pilgrimage.
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#10 of 17 Old 02-13-2003, 05:53 PM
 
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#11 of 17 Old 02-13-2003, 05:58 PM
 
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#12 of 17 Old 02-14-2003, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow, that sounds like they operate in a truly unified spirit, protecting all members of the group and keeping together. Awesome.
I hadn't given enough thought to the involvement of Hajar and the Zamzam...again, awesome.
I have also learned that the Saudi govt actually does place a limit on pilgrims, by having established a quota system for Hajj visas for pilgrims from various countries. So, controls are already in place over some things.
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#13 of 17 Old 02-14-2003, 05:39 PM
 
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So do the lesser hajj's (umra's) - are they more personal? Like would you be able to get closer to the relic? Does the umra suffice in case you can't make it during the Hajj?
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#14 of 17 Old 02-14-2003, 09:36 PM
 
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#15 of 17 Old 02-16-2003, 04:10 AM
 
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Eid Mubarak.

(1) Yes, KSA places strict controls on Hajj visas. In most countries, one must apply months ahead of time, and they only accept people of a certain age from certain countries. For example, being under 50, DH and I could not get visas for Hajj from Jordan (esp. him); but we can get them from the US. I believe they also place quotas on how many people from each country allowed, and on giving visas to repeat hajjis.

(2) If someone were to somehow show up at the border of the city of Makkah at the Hajj time, I'm pretty sure that they can't / won't turn that person away. In add'n. to the estimated 2.5 million Muslims from other countries that come to Hajj, they were telling me the other day that another 1 million Saudis show up (but b/c they are resident, and do not have visas, they are not counted in those tallies).

(3) Politics aside, the one thing that gov't has been fairly good at is Hajj crowd control and the improvements of the Holy Masajid. As an example: for YEARS they tried to get the Hajjis to use the trash cans that they set up at intervals of 7 ft or something like that, but many of them just wouldn't do it / didn't occur to them. People die every year, and people have died every year on Hajj for centuries. It was not very long ago (ie, within the last century) that families bid their hajjis goodbye for good, b/c the chances were very great that the pilgrim would not live to return. Besides the stampedes & other accidents, there are illnesses and "run of the mill" things like car accidents, etc. that happen. It is important for us, as Muslims, to remember that these people are not unfortunate, but that they are shuhadat, witnesses (or "martyrs") in the Paradise.

(4) The next most preferred time to visit Makkah is to make 'Umrah, or "little pilgrimage" in the month of Ramadan. Again, during this month there are strict controls on visas and entries, etc., and the crowds can reach up to 2 million. I was supposed to go this year, but ... LOL, my own family didn't believe me when I told them about the new, stricter passport / visa rules, so they were denied (applied too late), mash'Allah wa quwatta billah.

(5) What makes the Hajj hajj, besides, as Muslimomma and Umm Nuh said going in the prescribed days of the month Dhul-Hijjah, is not visiting the Ka'aba or running b/t Safwa and Marwa, or stoning the pillars representing the Shaytan. What makes Hajj hajj is the Standing at 'Arafah. This can ONLY be done on the 8th of Dhul-Hijjah, and it must be done before the mid-afternoon prayer, or 'asr. If one performs all of the other rites, but does not make it to the Plains of 'Arafah by 'asr prayer, one has not made Hajj. What is done at the Standing at 'Arafah is just prayer, meditation, contemplation of the Qur'an, and more prayer. It is a "dress rehearsal" of sorts for the Day of Judgement, in our paradigm.
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#16 of 17 Old 02-16-2003, 05:11 PM
 
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#17 of 17 Old 02-17-2003, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, thank you!

Now, here is a question: what do we have for Qur'an or Hadith regarding the idea of getting so frenzied that someone gets killed in the process of Hajj? The example, of course, being during the stoning of Shaitan?

I mean, when I imagine myself standing before Allah on the Last Day to explain that I forgot to be careful for those around me...
I cannot imagine defending that position, if my foot were the one to kill another Hajji. KWIM?

I understand that the sheer mass of the crowd makes it virtually impossible to be that aware about every single other Hajji...but this would concern me. And I also understand the rush to complete one's duties for the trip of a lifetime.

I guess I am thankful that I can think about all this now, before I, insha-Allah, can make the trip.
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