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#31 of 49 Old 08-18-2006, 09:23 PM
 
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This is a really personal question, JeDeeLenae, but it's something that comes up over and over whenever any non-Scientologists talk about Scientology on the internet.

Many (but not all) churchs request that their members tithe (donate 10% of their earnings). Other churchs request voluntary donations of indeterminate amounts but will allow you to participate in any portions of their services, classes, communions, Sunday school, without any donations or with minimal donations (like for private baptism services). From what I've read, Scientology only helps those who pay for their classes up front and the classes are not very cheap, $450, $1200, $1500, and more. I know that a full-time auditor (employee) can get free (or reduced fee?) classes, but can anyone else? What about a low-income family? Is there some other way for a low-income, working family to be Scientologists without having to pay for classes?

And here's the really personal question...would you mind telling us how much you have personally spent on classes in the past 5 years? I understand if you do not want to, but I am eternally interested in this facet of the Church of Scientology.
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#32 of 49 Old 08-18-2006, 09:45 PM
 
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I just want to say that really truly, the thetan=alien aspect of Scientology is widely reported, by dozens/hundreds/thousands of people who claim to be ex-Scientologists. But also, it is reported that Scientologists do not learn this fact until they reach OT Level III. It is very hard for us to not ask about this aspect of Scientology. I appreciate hearing exactly what you see Scientology as being but I just wanted that to be explained to me, Chersolly's comment doesn't even seem to be negative at all. (the first one was slightly glib but honest).

Thank you so much in advance for attempting to answer all of my questions. I truly do appreciate it.

edited for silly typos again....
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#33 of 49 Old 08-18-2006, 09:55 PM
 
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I just want to say that really truly, the thetan=alien aspect of Scientology is widely reported, by dozens/hundreds/thousands of people who claim to be ex-Scientologists.
I personally know a number of Scientology clears who have gone through all OT levels and none of them would agree that the term thetan refers to an alien.

Hubbard does not define a thetan as an alien. Look it up. It's not there.

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#34 of 49 Old 08-18-2006, 09:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by heartmama
I personally know a number of Scientology clears who have gone through all OT levels and none of them would agree that the term thetan refers to an alien.

Hubbard does not define a thetan as an alien. Look it up. It's not there.
Do you want to be technical and use the term Body thetan instead?
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#35 of 49 Old 08-18-2006, 10:05 PM
 
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Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary, L. Ron Hubbard, copyright 1975

Page 431 (edited to keep it under the 100 word limit)

Thetan 1. the living unit we call, in Scn, a thetan, that being taken from the Greek letter theta, the mathematical symbol used in Scn to indicate the source of life and life itself 3. The being who is the individual and who handles and lives in the body 4. (spirit) 5. the personality and beingness which actually is the individual and is aware...the thetan is immortal...9. The person himself-not his body or his name, the physical universe, his mind, or anything else

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#36 of 49 Old 08-18-2006, 10:18 PM
 
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Can you dig up the definition of Body Thetan in your technical dictionary and share it with the rest of the class?
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#37 of 49 Old 08-18-2006, 10:22 PM
 
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Chersolly did you complete the OT levels? I'm sorry you are this unhappy with your experience, I believe you are entitled to feel that way, and I can relate in the sense that religion in general is a big disappointment for many people. It seems unfair to take it out on this mom though. She is not the person who hurt or disappointed you. She seems very happy with her experience. It feels like you are taking something out on her that is not going to make either one of you feel better.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#38 of 49 Old 08-18-2006, 11:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
I personally know a number of Scientology clears who have gone through all OT levels and none of them would agree that the term thetan refers to an alien.
All VIII OT levels or all XV levels?

Are OT VIII Scientologists allowed to tell you (I assume you have never been OT III or higher) whether a thetan is really an alien spirit? I thought that they weren't allowed to tell OT III info to anyone who wasn't OT III?
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#39 of 49 Old 08-18-2006, 11:14 PM
 
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Chersolly, Thetan is one word, and BT (body thetan) is another word. You are interchanging them. Why? They are not remotely interchangeable. It's like saying that since "human" and "inhumane" sound similiar, they must mean the same thing too.

I do not see the definition of "body thetan" or "bt" in this dictionary, so I will post the definition as soon as I dig out a few more books. A "bt" is akin to what we think of as a ghost or phantom or haunt. Possibly alien could fit but I won't keep guessing, I'll find the definition. I will also post it in the other thread, since I think that is more appropriate.

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Wasn't rich enough. Do you have $200,000 you can spare?
If you haven't done the OT levels then why are you getting on her case about it?

You don't have to complete the OT levels to "be a scientologist" and you don't have a be a scientologist at all to define their words accurately.

Again I'm really sorry you feel so hurt, and I do respect that, I totally do. I am just saying, she is a scientologist, and she is happy with that, and it's wrong to send little jabs at her like she's wrong to talk about her faith in positive terms. I cannot handle reading fundamentalist Christian parenting stuff so I just don't open those threads. Too much baggage from my own childhood. That might be a good way for you to handle this thread. Just a suggestion.

Peace~

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#40 of 49 Old 08-18-2006, 11:35 PM
 
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Hi JeDeeLenae. I am really interested in the questions about birth and the weeks afterwards.

Quote:
There are quotes from LRH texts that suggest that newborns are to be swaddled and left for 24 hours. Some are confused about whether that means that the infants are to be left alone (as in not fed or held) or whether it refers more to outside intervention, perhaps medical intervention. Do you have some insight into this that you could share?

I have also read something that alleges that no one is allowed to speak in front of a newborn for its first week of life, to avoid engrams. Do you know if this is accurate?

After the birth of a Scientology baby in a silent birth, do you know what suggested procedure would be for the first few weeks of an infant's life? Are there any rules as to whether or not a baby might be introduced to the outside world or family members?
:
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#41 of 49 Old 08-19-2006, 12:04 AM
 
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I have removed numerous posts that were in violation of the Spirituality Guidelines and/or the User Agreement.

Please remember, when you post in this forum you are agreeing to uphold the rules of both MDC, and the specific rules of the Spirituality forum.

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The Spirituality board is a forum of support, respectful requests of information, and sharing of faith and practice. To uphold this purpose the board will not host discussions of debate or criticism. Disagreements about spiritual issues should be set aside out of respect for the diversity and varying interpretations and beliefs that we hold as a community.

While we will not restrict discussions to persons of the faith being discussed we will be active in discouraging an individual from posting for the purpose of disagreement, with no interest in practicing the faith or belief in discussion, or to prove a faith or a belief to be wrong, misguided, or not based on fact.
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This thread is being reopened to discussion now... let's ALL play nice.
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#42 of 49 Old 08-19-2006, 01:21 AM
 
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Can someone please define Body Thetan?

Thank you.
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#43 of 49 Old 08-19-2006, 01:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chersolly
Can someone please define Body Thetan?

Thank you.
Well, Wikipedia says this:

Quote:
Body thetan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Scientology, a thetan is the term roughly corresponding to one's "soul", and a Body Thetan is an alien thetan who is 'stuck' in, on or near a human body, and all human bodies are said to be covered in these misplaced thetans, or clusters of them. This information is not divulged until one reaches the third Operating Thetan level (or OT III). [1]
I'll look for more quotes, too.
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#44 of 49 Old 08-19-2006, 01:36 AM
 
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This one doesn't mention the word "alien" but it's curious nonetheless.

http://altreligion.about.com/library...ldefthetan.htm

Quote:
Thetan

Scientologese-a Thetan is analagous to the human soul. "Body thetans" are misplaced thetans that leech off the body of another. An "Operating Thetan" is a person who has "cleared" away body thetans through Scientology auditing.
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#45 of 49 Old 08-19-2006, 01:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
If you haven't done the OT levels then why are you getting on her case about it?

You don't have to complete the OT levels to "be a scientologist" and you don't have a be a scientologist at all to define their words accurately.
HM, I believe it was me who asked JeDee about her OT levels. I was not "bugging her" about it, I asked respectfully. What is wrong with that? It's a genuine question.

Reports all over the internet are that a person who is a Scientologist but is not OT Level III or higher would not know (unless they read it on the internet) about the Xenu story and the fact that LRH said it was fact. I have read accounts of lower level Scientologists hearing about it, asking about it and being told it is bunk or the higher level Scientologists just avoided answering and took the lower level Sci in for more auditing. I have read accounts of high level Scientologists who did reach OT III who claim to have had breakdowns after finding out about it, which auditing got them through and then they continued on with the religion. Given these easily searchable stories, why would we NOT ask JeDee what OT level she might have reached?

Debating these semantics is rather wearying and it isn't doing much for those who would sincerely like to hear more from a kind poster who seeks to assuage our curiosity.
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#46 of 49 Old 08-19-2006, 01:54 AM
 
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Often members of the Church of Scientology will publicly deny the existence of space opera doctrines, or attempt to minimize their importance. Because the secret information imparted to members is to be kept secret from others who have not attained that level, the member must publicly deny its existence when asked. OT III recipients must sign a waiver promising never to reveal its secrets before they are given the manila envelope containing the Body Thetan knowledge. [6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_thetan

There is another important sentence after the last, at the link, but I needed to leave it out to fit into the 100 word rule.

That seems to support the idea that a Scientologist who has not reached OT Level III would not know about the space opera or any alien aspect, even if they had SPECIFICALLY asked about it.
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#47 of 49 Old 08-19-2006, 02:07 AM
 
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Beliefnet has an engaging article on Scientology.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/169/story_16925_3.html

JeDeeLenae, have you read it?
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#48 of 49 Old 08-19-2006, 03:58 AM
 
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I am closing this thread to new posts while I await administrative input. Thank you for your patience

I have retired from administration work, so if you have a question about anything MDC-related, please contact Cynthia Mosher. Thanks!
 
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#49 of 49 Old 08-19-2006, 10:40 AM
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This thread will remain closed. I feel the direction of this discussion and the underlying intentions of some posters will only serve to violate the rules of Spirituality.

I feel the need to emphasize this part of the Spirituality forum guidelines:

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While we will not restrict discussions to persons of the faith being discussed we will be active in discouraging an individual from posting for the purpose of disagreement, with no interest in practicing the faith or belief in discussion, or to prove a faith or a belief to be wrong, misguided, or not based on fact. Prosletyzing, to convert to a faith or from one, will not be permitted. Controversial subjects of discussion related to spiritual and religious beliefs and origins can be found elsewhere on the internet and we invite you to seek out other sites for that purpose.
JeDeeLenae I appreciate your intentions here but feel that the discussion as an "ask me" approach simply can't be had without it delving into negativity. While a supportive discussion for members who are or wish to become Scientologists might be possible, this sort of discussion will likely only be derailed further, even with the removal of posts to try to redirect.

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