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#241 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 09:04 AM
 
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Glad I'm not the only one baffling about this! Jennissee, I think you've got it, and even if the solstice moment occurs in the middle of the night, as soon as it does, nights grow shorter, so the last full night before solstice moment must be it!
Thanks for helping me figure that out.

Heket, I love that link!
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#242 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 10:01 AM
 
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heya - haven't posted here in awhile.

i've been thinking about the link bw santa and paganism, as i personally am giving dd the reigns in regards to whether we go w/ that or not. She has chosen to belive in something she calls santa, but hasn't talked to much about him. she just knows he brings presents. and i have told her he brings presents for all people- NO MATTER WHAT. lol screw that manipulation thing. My parents, who we usually spend xmas day with, will prolly try to talk to her about creating a list, but i think that is a silly thing. i mean, i put tons of stuff on that list that i never got. what a way to set up a kid for disappointment.... :/

anyway, back to linking santa and paganism. One can look at the xian xmas and say, basically all those things originated in pagan traditions, from the birth of the sun/son, to the tree and lights, to presents, ect. But this is the first year i'd tried to find the link for Santa specifically. I came up with this http://www.nisbett.com/symbols/santa_claus.htm which i love, bc i've always loved Thor anyway. I'd never exactly seen him in this light, but i'm no t a Thor scholar so....

Anyway, i'm wondering what the rest of you think in regards to fitting Santa into your pagan lives?

lisa
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#243 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 10:50 AM
 
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We are new to being pagan, so we haven't sorted all of our beliefs and celebrations yet. We are going by the wheel of the year but becuase we have done santa for the last 5ish years we are still going santa. Santa isn't a christian figure to us but a nice reminder that we should care for others.
I donate and such throughout the year...santa is more of a spirit to us but to dd she believes in him.

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#244 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Good morning, all! Got frosted twice this morning- so thank you frosty friends!

Great link, Heket! My dh was at Chaco to see the Sun Dagger on Winter Solstice many years ago. He almost froze his tookus off!

John Matthews in his book The Winter Solstice has a chapter on Old Sir Christmas which explores the mythic origins of Santa. This is my favorite part:

"If a cosmic tree points the way to heaven for us every christmas, Santa Claus undertakes the magical flight of the shaman. He is sometimes said to be responsible for erecting the Christmas tree sky pole himself. Descending vertically down the chimney Santa returns by the same route back to the roof. Our chimneys, like the cosmic axis, carry him from one realm to the other...

Santa Claus...has his grip on the world axis. His yearly tour steadies us all. Remote, at the top of the world, in a land of eternal snow, he gathers the energy spent in the year's passing.
Then he sails like a shaman, off into the solsticial darkness, to re-allocate the power to the world's children.
It's a promise in christmas presents that through children and through seasonal renewal, the world is ever young." - E. C. Krupp Beyond the Blue Horizon


These look like some interesting links.

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#245 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 12:51 PM
 
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I have a funny story relating to Santa Claus (whom we call Father Yule). My sister brought home a little Father Yule pin whose arms and legs move when you pull the attached string. DD was fascinated and we played with it for a while, until the string got tangled and one of the arms wouldn't move anymore. I said "Uh oh, he's all jacked up," and set him aside. We found something else to play with and that was that. The next day, we were eating lunch at a restaurant where the kid's menu/activity sheet thingy had Father Yule's printed all over it. DD took one look at it and said -- LOUDLY -- "Look, it's Father Yule ... he's all jacked up!"

WHEN will I learn that 2 y/o's repeat EVERYTHING they hear?!

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#246 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 12:56 PM
 
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"Look, it's Father Yule ... he's all jacked up!"



kids are SO funny!

And thanks heathen mom for sharing your Yule traditions with us!

wife to my awesome DH, homeschooling, unassisted birthing, food growing, life loving mama to 5 crazy monkeys. :
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#247 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 01:05 PM
 
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The Santa thing is interesting, but while that site links Santa to Thor, another Christian site I was on this morning was linking Santa to Odin.

http://www.intotruth.org/misc/xmas2.html

Cute story!

So, just how toxic is holly, anyway? I want to decorate with it, but I'm afraid my kids would eat it.
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#248 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 01:09 PM
 
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I remember hearing (where I have no idea. LOL) that solstice sort of seems to last a few days because of how low the sun is. Something like 3-5 days. Although the exact moment is one time, since the rising and setting of the sun only is a minute or so different that before clocks it would have seemed to be a long period without sun light.
We have sort of ditched Santa for the Solstice fairy. It comes at night and fills the stockings.

Hey when you were kids did you ever get gifts from your parents? Or did Sanat bring everything to you? I realized my folks never got us anything, our gift was always from Santa. And we always got gifts from grandparents and aunts and uncles. You got the feeling that people cared for you, that they thought about you. My kids don't get that. It is a PIA just to see people let alone have anyone want to join in the spirit of giving. Makes me kinda sad sometimes.

H

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#249 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 01:11 PM
 
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According to poison control (I'm looking at this one http://www.mnpoison.org/index.asp?pageID=202 cause they have pretty pictures ) says holly is a real no-no...

Three or four berries will have you emptying your tummy and 20 or so can be fatal. Ick!

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#250 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 02:08 PM
 
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I have been keeping up with the thread, lol.

Thank you for posting your traditions, heathenmom.

I am also liking all of the links, they are great reads!

I am really getting into the Spirit of the holidays more this year. We are staying here (the first time in 6.5 years of marriage) this year, and we have a fresh tree up. It feels great cause we have not done a tree of our own, let alone a fresh one. I was knitting garland and ornaments, but they are not up yet....the knitted ones need to be stuffed. I will post pics soon! I cut up citrus to dry them and hang on the tree. We were doing good and they were drying out. I went to get them last night to go on the tree, but they were moldy! Erm, has anyone else had this happen? Should I have sealed them somehow? I have made pomanders (a tradition from my childhood) and have a few on the tree.

I don't remember seeing this yet: What holiday books are you reading? I have Circle Round and it is great. I went to Border's to find something and they had either Santa-focused or Baby Jesus-focused. Any with a Nordic, Pagan, or Nature theme in them?

Emily SAHM to four unschoolers Olivia (9), Brian (7), Jack (6), and Liam (5)
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#251 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 02:09 PM
 
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Good morning, all! Got frosted twice this morning- so thank you frosty friends!
What does this mean?

Emily SAHM to four unschoolers Olivia (9), Brian (7), Jack (6), and Liam (5)
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#252 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Nice to see you, Emily! Sent you a frosty PM.

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#253 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 02:37 PM
 
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Thank you to those who Frosted me.

Oh, I got the new James Taylor holiday dvd (yourmusic.com) and I LOVE it! Yeah, it's a lot of the traditional xmas songs but his voice makes it all ok. rofl.
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#254 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 02:41 PM
 
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Is it just me or does it seem like the whole "frosted and booed" thing feel like a popularity game? For some reason it bothers me cause I know that there will be people who do not get the PM and that makes me sad. I seriously almost sent a PM to every single user on MDC that I saw listed at the bottom.
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#255 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 04:03 PM
 
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Thank you, Salvia

I posted pics of my tree in my blog (check sig).

Emily SAHM to four unschoolers Olivia (9), Brian (7), Jack (6), and Liam (5)
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#256 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 05:01 PM
 
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This is the first year we will be doing Santa. My DD is 2.5 and was too young to understand the previous two years. To me, he represents giving unconditionally and a magical whimsy that is often missing today. We absolutely do not subscribe to the idea that he only visits "good children"--I hate when that is held over children's heads--but rather that he loves unconditionally like a parent, true friend, etc. I love all the links about his Pagan origins. As much as I'm bothered by Christian denominations that are so anti-Pagan, it's handy to have Christian links that validate Christmas/Yule as Pagan.

mamaofthree, when I was a child, we got presents from both Santa and my parents. Santa would fill our stockings and leave a couple presents on the floor under the stocking. My parents would give us the bigger presents. And that's how I want to do it with my DD. I'm also going to have DD help me bake cookies to leave out, and then Santa will leave "footprints" (made from flour) on our hearth.

Unfortunately, we are having a big problem with my MIL regarding Santa. She and her mom (DH's grandmother) like to write "From Santa" on their presents, instead of who it's actually from, and my mom even started doing this. I do NOT want my DD thinking that Santa is so excessive that he brings 30 presents to four different houses. And, darn it, I'm the parent and I want this tradition. They got to do that with their own children, and now it's my turn. I talked to everyone about this already, and my mom seems ok with it, but I just checked the presents under my MIL's tree, and they say "From Santa." I'm just going to make a point of saying "From Grandma and Grandpa" when I hand a present to DD, so I'm already prepared for MIL to be ticked at me all day.

Emmama, we only have secular Christmas books, but I'll be : . I did just buy this book about autumn, and they have also have each for spring, summer, and winter, but I haven't bought the others yet. I don't really like the king-and-queen-looking-for-a-husband-for-the-princess thing, but it's full of beautiful earth imagery, and in the end, the princess finds out that the tree she has loved so much is actually a prince.

Kleine Hexe, I hadn't thought of it that way, but that's a good point. I've seen the Boo'ed and Thankful signatures for the past few months, but I didn't know what they meant, so I never thought of it as something that I was left out of. I think it was probably originally meant as a way to spread good cheer and make people smile, but I see your point, too. Hmmmm.
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#257 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 05:09 PM
 
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Hi!

Not a lot of time to post...

It's been a few days since we last saw the sun and I'm really missing it... I feel so lazy right now, it's scary!

Everything is slow here... It almost feel like another world... But I feel stuck between following this slower pace and the crazy speedy pace that goes in the *real* world... Going to the store is very exhausting right now even if I remain calm and slow; everyone else is so speady and so stressed out that I can't shield myself from it and I'm left feeling drained when I walk out the door.:

Valérie   
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#258 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 05:12 PM
 
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I am putting my fresh greens around the outside. I can not put them inside due to cats...my cats are crazy!!!!

it is just beautiful today! warm and sunny! dd2 helped me get the greens from our college. the wind had knocked some green down and we picked those up for decorating.

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#259 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 06:31 PM
 
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Hello. I've been following along this thread for awhile and wanted to come out of hiding. I started to appreciate mother nature more and more when I moved to the country four years ago. It's a different lifestyle from living in the city and I am embracing it fully. I love having my garden and seeing the wildlife and I now take time to watch the seasons change. So as I continue to explore my new life I thought I would jump in here and see what there is to learn. I enjoy celebrating what I get from nature and although I have never celebrated anything such as solstice, I would like to start.

Last year I started to struggle with the idea of Santa. I didn't believe in Santa as a child, although my brother (3 1/2 years older) did. This year has been even more of a struggle and I have realized that I do not wish to teach Santa to my own children in the way my parents did. DH didn't agree at first but does now.

I look forward to learning more here. I'll start with Mother's night and 12th night. Is Mother's Night the longest night of the year? Then 12th night would be 12 nights from the longest night? Why 12, what is the significance of 12? Thanks.

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#260 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 07:06 PM
 
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Just popping in here really quickly. I am looking for a book about the Solstice for a girl in the 4-8 age category. The one I was originally referred to is called The Shortest Day by Wendy Pfeffer but I haven't seen the book myself.

What can you recommend?

TIA!

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#261 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The Shorest Day is good and so is The Winter Solstice by Ellen Jackson. We got them out from the library last year, but I didn't love them enough to buy them. I really love Jan Brett's books and she has a number that are christmas (not Christiany).

Howdy, Wateraddict. Is there a story behind your user name?

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#262 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 08:53 PM
 
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I've got "The Shortest Day" out from the library for the second year. It's good, but it's not really a story, as much as it is an explanation of celebrations of the solstice over time and in different cultures. It's inspired us to make golden apple cutouts for the tree. I got yellow cardstock and we're going to brush gold glitter glue over them.
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#263 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 08:57 PM
 
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Yeh, thanks girls. I just got the book out of the library (I ran right there--its only 3 blocks). Is this as good as it gets? I guess I was hoping there was a Solstice book for kids out there written by pagans for pagans and not just the same ol' people around the world thing.

I'm still not sure whether or not I will order it for my friend's DD. I REALLY wanted to give her the perfect Solstice book...

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#264 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 09:06 PM
 
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If you can get your hands on it (amazon.ca had it this summer but it's been out of stock since them, and I'm waiting for it to come back), I'll recommend this :
"An Ordinary Girl, a Magical Child" (Paperback)
by W. Lyon Martin (Author)
You can buy it form the author's site too, but shipping is almost the cost of the book. Maybe amazon.com?
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#265 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 09:07 PM
 
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KH-- I have to tell you I was quite shocked to get frosted, because I wasn't Booed or Gobbled or anything elsed. In fact, my very first DDDDC was the result of a thread that someone started about never getting one, and was it just junior high school all over again?

It's all good, though; I've never been popular. Notorious, yes, but popular? No, not I. I came to terms with that back in high school.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#266 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 09:08 PM
 
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Sweet! Its in stock at chapters.ca! I'll take your advice and look into it!

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#267 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 09:18 PM
 
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I am putting my fresh greens around the outside. I can not put them inside due to cats...my cats are crazy!!!!
This just made me laugh. Crazy cats!

Quote:
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The Shorest Day is good and so is The Winter Solstice by Ellen Jackson. We got them out from the library last year, but I didn't love them enough to buy them.
I bought Ellen Jackson books and I'm not that thrilled with them. I'll proably sell them.
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#268 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 09:20 PM
 
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This just made me laugh. Crazy cats!



I bought Ellen Jackson books and I'm not that thrilled with them. I'll proably sell them.
Yeh, I saw the reviews for Winter Solstice on amazon and many people were saying they are NOT pagan friendly books.

So Pagan mamas...obviously there is a niche here to be fillled. Anyone interested in writing children's books???

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#269 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So Pagan mamas...obviously there is a niche here to be fillled. Anyone interested in writing children's books???
Oh, someday, I'd love to!

Has anyone read Return of the Light by Carolyn Vickar Edwards? Off to see if my library has it!

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#270 of 618 Old 12-12-2006, 10:04 PM
 
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laughs- guess what we named our first cat?


Loki!!!!!!

then aurora and well, we adopted Mittens, but we call her MiMi.

I adore most of Jann Bretts stuff. I just got out from the library, the Thirteen Days of Yule. let me grab it...

"in medieval scotland the winters were long, dark, and cold. The only relief came at Yuletide when all work was put aside and people gave themselves over to feasts, songs, games, dances and the exchange of gifts for many days on end. "

The king sent his lady on thr first Yule day A papingo-ay! Who learns my carol and carries it away?

Nanny Hogrogian

I enjoy the illustrations. interesting read.
witchvox had a yule story

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