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Old 03-13-2007, 02:34 PM
 
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Hey you guys.... be very quiet. Come closer. Shhhh!

Look who's sleeping in my lap! Ain't that the cutest EVAH? :

Kira is actually sleeping in my lap. Probably the 5th time since turning 4 weeks old that she has done so.

She hasn't wanted to be laying with/on me in 3 months or so.

Okay, quit oggling my daughter and sit back down, sheesh.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:35 PM
 
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Also catgirl,
I know a lot about g/f c/f diets so if you want more info. lmk.

We've been g/f for almost a year and 1/2 and are now introducing casein. I, too, believe that if you can pinpoint it, it'll be a dietary thing causing the behavior. It does for my girls.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:35 PM
 
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Thank you! I'm still learning all of this and I'm using a WYSISYG editor so I'll probably be able to do it!

I still don't know what FTP is though. . .

FTP is file transfer protocol or some such thing. It's basically the software method by which you upload all your files to your host. In this editor, there's a button that says PUBLISH and that opens the ftp client or whatever you call it. I have the tutorial link at home... if you remind me, I'll email it to you!

celeste terra, single wohm to twin toddler boys max and shoghi. bamboo village press
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:47 PM
 
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Penny,
Would he be open to doing some healing energy work? My sons aren't so crazy about talking their way through things, but they are sometimes open to doing energy work (BodyTalk, Cranio-sacral, etc) If this is past life related, those things will help. If it's this life related, those therapies will help. All he has to do is rest on a table while someone helps move energy in his body.

It might be worth asking him. You might get a whole lot of insight into him and his behavior as a result.
We were doing this - although he was disruptiveand resistant while it was going on, he would always end the session in a place that was 300% better. Now he's refusing to do it He doesn't want to be "helped". He has so mcuh pride. Even as a baby he wouldn't cry when he hurt himself unless it was really bad.

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Penny, sorry I haven't responded to the discussion about your son earlier. I've been reading along, though.

I'm in the same boat about not really knowing where I fall on the past lives thing. I tend to not believe that - I just don't believe in reincarnation.

That said, this discussion has been very tender and very stirring. I bolded the section of your post that spoke to me that perhaps it's not that he IS your brother, but perhaps he is filling that role symbolically for you. Remember how I said that I discovered that symbolically my sister could be my baby? Maybe it's like that - especially since you're finding resonance with the idea of your son being linked to your brother.

And this fits in with LOA, too. If you delayed having a baby because of the trauma around your brother and the residual fear, and you have been vibrating a certain way around young boys, especially that close and tender relationship of a young brother/ young son, maybe it's more to the point that you've been vibrating in a way that is pulling your son in a particular direction? I'm not saying this as blame at all, so I hope you don't take it that way - I'm finding it hard to express this...

Well, I also know that sometimes it's hard for me to express the fullness of a situation by posting. Maybe you could find some people to process this with that you trust, who you can actually speak to? I know you're hurting about this situation... You have my contact info and can call me any time if you need a listening ear.

I kind of went around in circles on this (this is why I haven't been posting...) but anyway I'm reading and sending my love.
thank you Celeste - yeah, the either/or thing works for me. And I am aware of how we project - I've worked hard at reminding myself that ds is on his own path, not the path of my fears, which is I guess why this past lives thing scared me. Having said that, I was shocked to see how much I've done some of the same stuff with him that was done with my brother - assuming he'd learn a certain way, for instance - but at least I was wise to it and caught on much earlier. I'm not happy I did it at all, but at le3ast it's getting better now.

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catgirl I'm so sorry. s
Thank you. I'll take any hugs I can get right now, they do help. back

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Sweety, I am probably going to be flamed for this, but this is my suggestion. I have had this work to good effect for me, though it's probably not AP.

When the child becomes violent, I take him into his room, and pull the door shut behind myself, leaving him there. I hold the door closed, and I simply repeat, "I love you, and when you're done venting your anger and are ready to reason together with me, I will let you come out. I cannot, however, and will not allow you to attempt to injure me. Such behavior is not appropriate." Then I begin again, "I love you, and when you're done..."

I realize that it's more popular on these boards to be perfectly AP, but we're not all able to do that, all the time. When you have times like this, I think it's better to shut him in his room so that neither one of you gets hurt, than to end up snarling at him, or having to physically restrain him in that manner.

This is just my opinion, you know? Maybe someone else will have better advice for you.

The thing to remember, though, is to not LOCK HIM IN. You should be there, holding the handle of the door. This should be done only so long as you are able to be present and speaking to him lovingly through the door.

It is NOT acceptable, and I am NOT advocating, locking a child into a closet, or even into their room. Holding the door past the moments when they are attempting to be a physical danger to you is NOT acceptable. (This is my disclaimer before everyone says, "OMG, you said to lock the baby in his bedroom!)
The bolded part was what I was aiming for, of course. I don't know about putting him in his room...that might have felt worse to me, and I think it might have got more out of control.


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No flaming from me sister. I've had to do that. The important thing to to make sure they know you are right there and you will help them if they need it.
No flaming from me either!
Quote:

I can't help but think there is a connection. I don't know anything about past lives, but could there be something more than coincidence, less than a full blow reincarnation (since that doesn't seem to be settling with you)
Yeah, that could work!

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Maybe he has the same "issues" as your brother. The women in my family all have similar depression and health issues because of genetics. There's one adopted person in the family who doesn't have these issues (he has his own he inherited from his family of birth). I just mention that because no, it's not always how we're raised. Sometimes it's just plain genetics. Food sensitivities, environmental allergies, depression, lots of things tend to run in biological families.
My brother was defiintely bi-polar though, and I don't see that in ds. He's very grounded in a way. My brother was much more "swingy", IYKWIM.

And also, people were constantly commenting when he was little, and it's still true now when he's OK - he's just the happiest kid! He bounces around and sings and enjoys himself - when he's being his happy self. He has an enormous enthusiasm for life and a great sense of humor. I think this is why this shocks me.


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Penny. All other things aside, I would second what Shannon was saying about food issues. Have you looked into the Feingold Program Some children are extremely chemical sensitive - the program eliminates all artificial colors, flavors, preservatives, sweeteners, and also during the first stage, many fruits that are high in salycilates (apples, berries, oranges, grapes, and others). We are seeing huge differences, especially in our 3 year old, and when we "cheat", we can also see how much the program is helping because he will regress.

You might also look into gluten/casein issues ... I've read places where Celiac's (gluten and casein intolerance) can manifest itself in some severe behavior issues with children.

No matter what the cause ... it does not have to be this way. Whatever is causing the behavior and issues for your ds, he does not have to be like this forever ... and from what you are writing, I would highly suspect a food intolerance/chemical intolerance.
You know, while I do buy healthy, he did become dairy intolerant at 3 1/2 and we took him off it. But we used soy instead. I tried the no wheat/dairy thing at one point but I'm not sure I did it for long enough. One thing that's happened recently is that he started getting him the lactase tablets that enable you to digest dairy, and I think he's been kind of over-dosing on it. I find the GF/CF thing rather overwhelming to contemplate, to be honest, what with HSing/WAHMing/WOHMing, and I'd need to talk to dh about it first to make sure he would "get" it and support it.

Who asked me what happened at 3 1/2? Two things: he night-weaned (becasue I wrote him a story about him night-weaning ), then not long after he started pre-school, whihc he still says he didn't enjoy that much.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:49 PM
 
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I have to confess a strange fear I have been having.

When I had Kira, the pregnancy was hard as heck. I mean, miserable in the end. Well, I had caesarean, so I just had them do a tubal ligation while they were in there.

I have this fear still, of getting pregnant again. More specifically, I have this fear that my fear of pregnancy will heal my tubal and get me pregnant! :

I think this is contributing to my inability to be intimate with my partner. Yet, i just cannot seem to shake this irrational fear that my tubal will be "healed" and I'll have to go through another pregnancy.

I am feeling really stupid right now. Yep, I am, I am.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:52 PM
 
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Penny... I wish I had some wise words for you. I guess I would say that regardless of what is going on here, you are obviously heading to the place of fixing it. There is nothing to be frightened of, because being aware and open to receiving guidance on solutions is all it takes to take you where you need to go.

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When the child becomes violent, I take him into his room, and pull the door shut behind myself, leaving him there. I hold the door closed, and I simply repeat, "I love you, and when you're done venting your anger and are ready to reason together with me, I will let you come out. I cannot, however, and will not allow you to attempt to injure me. Such behavior is not appropriate." Then I begin again, "I love you, and when you're done..."
I understand the reasoning behind this suggestion, and can totally see this as a last resort if I were in serious physical harm. However, I can't help but put myself in the shoes of the person behind the door. Honestly, if someone did this to me when I was already out of control (which is where you are when you're physically lashing out) then I think I might lose my mind. How could you possibly calm yourself down, and find a way to control yourself, when someone is showing you that you have no control? I can actually feel the fear and confusion in the pit of my stomach just thinking about it. I really don't know how this could possibly work.

(All this said with genuine confusion, in the interest of discussion, and not at all intended to judge anyone for their choices or for doing whatever they feel they need to do to get through something. )

Melanie
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:55 PM
 
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I have to confess a strange fear I have been having.

When I had Kira, the pregnancy was hard as heck. I mean, miserable in the end. Well, I had caesarean, so I just had them do a tubal ligation while they were in there.

I have this fear still, of getting pregnant again. More specifically, I have this fear that my fear of pregnancy will heal my tubal and get me pregnant! :

I think this is contributing to my inability to be intimate with my partner. Yet, i just cannot seem to shake this irrational fear that my tubal will be "healed" and I'll have to go through another pregnancy.

I am feeling really stupid right now. Yep, I am, I am.
Amris, I'll trade my fear of never getting pregnant for your fear of getting pregnant. It goes without saying that feeling stupid is silly and counterproductive, since you are anything BUT stupid.

celeste terra, single wohm to twin toddler boys max and shoghi. bamboo village press
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:58 PM
 
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Penny, I have a friend that is an energy healer and intuitive. She does her work remotely, over the telephone. She could work on your son and you from a distance, which means no resistance for him. Actually, he wouldn't even have to know. Let me know if you'd like her email address.

Melanie
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:00 PM
 
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I have to confess a strange fear I have been having.

When I had Kira, the pregnancy was hard as heck. I mean, miserable in the end. Well, I had caesarean, so I just had them do a tubal ligation while they were in there.

I have this fear still, of getting pregnant again. More specifically, I have this fear that my fear of pregnancy will heal my tubal and get me pregnant! :

I think this is contributing to my inability to be intimate with my partner. Yet, i just cannot seem to shake this irrational fear that my tubal will be "healed" and I'll have to go through another pregnancy.

I am feeling really stupid right now. Yep, I am, I am.
Amris, my first instinct reading this is to tell you to tune in and think about whether or not you're feeling any spirit babies hanging out around you. If you are, have a conversation and tell them that you're not able to provide them with a home right now.

Melanie
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:02 PM
 
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I understand the reasoning behind this suggestion, and can totally see this as a last resort if I were in serious physical harm. However, I can't help but put myself in the shoes of the person behind the door. Honestly, if someone did this to me when I was already out of control (which is where you are when you're physically lashing out) then I think I might lose my mind. How could you possibly calm yourself down, and find a way to control yourself, when someone is showing you that you have no control? I can actually feel the fear and confusion in the pit of my stomach just thinking about it. I really don't know how this could possibly work.

(All this said with genuine confusion, in the interest of discussion, and not at all intended to judge anyone for their choices or for doing whatever they feel they need to do to get through something. )
Sorry, but if you're so out of control that you're deliberately trying to injure other people, then you need to be put into an environment where it is safe to lash out with physical violence.

It is never okay to assault someone, even if you're too small to damage them. If you are assaulting people, then the consequence is that you lose even more control, because assault is not acceptable, and "I was out of control" is not an acceptable excuse.

NO ONE should ever have to just "deal with" your unwillingness to get control over yourself. There is a greater freedom in being restrained in a room where you can beat a pillow, etc. than there is in being forcibly restrained by someone else holding you down, and basically returning YOUR assault with yet more assault.

Are you advocating allowing a child to simply continually attack you, and do nothing at all? Are you advocating that I assualt my child by holding her down and physically trapping her using force?
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:07 PM
 
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I'm not advocating for anything, actually. I'm just sharing that the idea of being forced into a room sounds like torture to me. If my husband did that to me I don't know how I could get through it.

Melanie
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:09 PM
 
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I don't know about putting him in his room...that might have felt worse to me, and I think it might have got more out of control.
I agree that could just lead to an escalation of his behavior. I'd also be concerned about confining a child that way could lead to claustrophobia. I think it's a very bad idea to lock a child in a room, and that is what it is regardless of the parent standing there and holding the door. I think you did the right thing in holding him off you and still being there.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:10 PM
 
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I'm not advocating for anything, actually. I'm just sharing that the idea of being forced into a room sounds like torture to me. If my husband did that to me I don't know how I could get through it.
me too and I'm an adult
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:12 PM
 
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I'm not advocating for anything, actually. I'm just sharing that the idea of being forced into a room sounds like torture to me. If my husband did that to me I don't know how I could get through it.
What would you expect your husband to do if you were assaulting him?

Honest question. How do you think it should be handled when someone is assaulting you?

We're not talking about a child having a tantrum on the ground here, he is assaulting her. We're not talking about some yelling. We're talking physical attacks with FULL and very REAL desire and intent to inflict physical harm.

If you were attacking your husband, what should he do?

I understand that being locked into a room would be pretty unpleasant. But basically, when you assault someone with intent to harm and injure them... what do you expect to happen?

By all rights, if you attack your husband, if he locks you into a room, you'd be lucky because if he fights back, you could very well end up horribly injured. It is not just for his safety, but for yours, as well.

When being assaulted, normal people go into fight or flight reflex. And THEY have a high possibility of losing control. As happened in this case... she lost control in response to his loss of control.

Were this two adults, it could easily have descended into an all-out brawl.



anyway, I'm done with the conversation. I do not advocate physically assaulting your child back in the name of "restraining" them. That's all I have to say on the issue, because I don't intend to derail the thread.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:12 PM
 
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OT: celestarra and amris - check your email.

Now back to scheduled programming.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:13 PM
 
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Are you advocating that I assualt my child by holding her down and physically trapping her using force?
locking a child in a room is physically trapping them
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:14 PM
 
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Penny... I just had a thought. Do you think your son is pushing as a way to force you to provide more of 'the way it was'? It sounds like you've made huge changes in how you interact with each other in your house, and that could feel very unsettling for him, even if the changes are bringing you to a better place. So maybe it's just him doing an emotional detox, the same way you probably went through one yourself. In which case, some loving support and a few "I'm still here" sentiments might just be all he needs to get to a better feeling place.

Melanie
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:15 PM
 
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Penny... I just had a thought. Do you think your son is pushing as a way to force you to provide more of 'the way it was'? It sounds like you've made huge changes in how you interact with each other in your house, and that could feel very unsettling for him, even if the changes are bringing you to a better place. So maybe it's just him doing an emotional detox, the same way you probably went through one yourself. In which case, some loving support and a few "I'm still here" sentiments might just be all he needs to get to a better feeling place.
Very good question! Thank you so much for posting that.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:17 PM
 
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catgirl, g/f, c/f IS difficult at first. It's a huge change and very hard. I sobbed for an entire weekend after we first started it. It's very emotional. Also, one's body detoxes and causes erratic behavior too (for a short time.)

Not saying that it is your son's issue at all, it's only M.E. that leads me to believe that eliminating certain things will help.

I know you'll manifest the right answers for YOU!
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:19 PM
 
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locking a child in a room is physically trapping them
It is confining them. It is not physically assaulting them, using your body to trap them.

Assault met with more assault simply shows that violence works.

Why do we use prison instead of simply strapping criminals down?
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:23 PM
 
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What would you expect your husband to do if you were assaulting him?

Honest question. How do you think it should be handled when someone is assaulting you?

We're not talking about a child having a tantrum on the ground here, he is assaulting her. We're not talking about some yelling. We're talking physical attacks with FULL and very REAL desire and intent to inflict physical harm.

If you were attacking your husband, what should he do?

I understand that being locked into a room would be pretty unpleasant. But basically, when you assault someone with intent to harm and injure them... what do you expect to happen?

By all rights, if you attack your husband, if he locks you into a room, you'd be lucky because if he fights back, you could very well end up horribly injured. It is not just for his safety, but for yours, as well.

When being assaulted, normal people go into fight or flight reflex. And THEY have a high possibility of losing control. As happened in this case... she lost control in response to his loss of control.

Were this two adults, it could easily have descended into an all-out brawl.
Well, if this were really a case of me being physically out of control and trying to harm my husband, then I would expect him to leave. I wouldn't think he should do anything other than get himself to a safe place. I don't see how physically restraining me or locking me in a room would be necessary.

It is a bit different with children because we can't really just leave the house and walk away from them. Ultimately, I think Penny's choice to hold her son's hands and try to talk him down feels like the best course of action to me. I would also support the idea of putting distance between yourself and the child by removing yourself to another room. But it still feels really uncomfortable to me to lock anyone in a room.

I also think there's a bit of a difference between reasonable expectations of children and adults. My overall reaction toward a child that is out of control and physical would be much different than the idea of the same actions from my husband. Not that I'm suggesting it is ever ok to hit or use physical harm, but if my daughter kicks me I know it is about a lack of control and related to her age. If my husband kicked me... well, we wouldn't be married any longer.

Melanie
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:24 PM
 
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Amris we are never going to agree on this.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:28 PM
 
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We're talking physical attacks with FULL and very REAL desire and intent to inflict physical harm.
I don't think we can assume that catgirls ds had a desire and intent to inflict physical harm, he is a child not an adult. Kids get overloaded with emotions that cause them to act out without specific intent to harm.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:33 PM
 
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I stated I was done, and I am done.

So can we drop it yet and get back to the real purpose of the thread already?
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:37 PM
 
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Amris I'm not sure what is coming up here for you, but I don't think there needs to be winners and losers and right and wrong.

Melanie
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:44 PM
 
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OT again -

I manifested a way to put my pp button on my site! whoohoo! Thanks celesterra for helping me but I manifested an even easier way!


Now, in a day or two I'm going to have more great manifesting news for you all!

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Old 03-13-2007, 03:46 PM
 
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And also, people were constantly commenting when he was little, and it's still true now when he's OK - he's just the happiest kid! He bounces around and sings and enjoys himself - when he's being his happy self. He has an enormous enthusiasm for life and a great sense of humor. I think this is why this shocks me.
Are you saying this is a reason it can't be physical? I'm not sure what point you are making here. My daughter is very strong willed, yes, but she is also very chatty, has "an enormous enthusiasm for life", is very bright and energetic and happy and makes friends wherever she goes. And when she doesn't eat enough or eats the wrong thing she is angry and out of control.

It's not her fault, it's not her choosing not to calm down. That would be like me saying I choose to have eczema when I eat dairy. Which, ok, some LOA people might say I do But even if you believe that as the truth, it's very hard for us adults to accept and work with that, it's a big expectation to put on a child to be able to.

From what you've written I would very strongly suggest you look into food. It's as simple as starting with a food diary and seeing if you see a pattern. Some foods take days to show reactions but there's usually a pattern (like you might notice that the day after he eats X he's angry while 2 days after he eats Y he's sad all day long).
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:48 PM
 
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I need to knuckle down, and apply something on a long-term, consistent basis. I don't do that when I am "searching" different methods. When I learn of a method, I am of the type that, I have to try it. Then I have to try the next one. And the next one.

So, now I intend to stick with the tools I have selected. If I cease learning simply because I choose to stick with those, then I think I have a big problem.



May I gently suggest the possibility that you continue the seeking because you're needing to 'try on' the different offerings and that you can TRUST that you'll stop when you've found what resonates the strongest within you?

And that the idea of 'ceasing learning' may also occur due to your time being done with a certain method - not necessarily due to you 'having a problem' that's personal?



Just some other ways of looking at things. . .
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Old 03-13-2007, 04:09 PM
 
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Penny, I have a friend that is an energy healer and intuitive. She does her work remotely, over the telephone. She could work on your son and you from a distance, which means no resistance for him. Actually, he wouldn't even have to know. Let me know if you'd like her email address.
Thanks, Melanie! Actually our healer said she could do it "remote" and I gave her a photo of him (a very cute one!). I haven't followed up yet because - and I just came back to ask your reactions to this! - I felt a little weird about doing it when he had been resisting it so much, as if that was kind of dishonest and going behind his back. (Putting vitamins in his juice never worked either!) What do you think?

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Amris, my first instinct reading this is to tell you to tune in and think about whether or not you're feeling any spirit babies hanging out around you. If you are, have a conversation and tell them that you're not able to provide them with a home right now.
: That whole spirit babies thread has really amazed me!

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I don't think we can assume that cargirls ds had a desire and intent to inflict physical harm, he is a child not an adult. Kids get overloaded with emotions that cause them to act out without specific intent to harm.
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We're not talking about a child having a tantrum on the ground here, he is assaulting her. We're not talking about some yelling. We're talking physical attacks with FULL and very REAL desire and intent to inflict physical harm.
I agree with both of you, actually. But what Amris said above is why I reacted the way I did. While he's too small to hurt me, it was clearly a psychic (more than physical) attack (and I'm much more sensitive to that now). I'm not proud of how I reacted, but if an adult got in my face like that I probably would have felt the same need to protect myself. (And as I'm writing this I realized that there were times in the past when I didn't always do that.) The energy healer said she could feel his aura about 8 feet away - he has a very powerful effect on people (which of course is why his music speaks to people!).



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Penny... I just had a thought. Do you think your son is pushing as a way to force you to provide more of 'the way it was'? It sounds like you've made huge changes in how you interact with each other in your house, and that could feel very unsettling for him, even if the changes are bringing you to a better place. So maybe it's just him doing an emotional detox, the same way you probably went through one yourself. In which case, some loving support and a few "I'm still here" sentiments might just be all he needs to get to a better feeling place.
Oh yes! I was feeling this, definitely. That's what I meant yesterday when i ws talking about not being able to put the genie back in the bottle (not that I want to, it's just that some of the effects are scary when you can't see where it's going). I guess this is bringing up a hugs amount of stuff for me too. I was saying to dh last night that sometimes thigs get worse before they start to get better.

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It is a bit different with children because we can't really just leave the house and walk away from them. Ultimately, I think Penny's choice to hold her son's hands and try to talk him down feels like the best course of action to me.
I do walk away sometimes, and I make it clear when I do that that it's not because I don't love him, but that I'm going to love him from another room because I respect myself and can't allow him to behave that way to me. And I do think it's good for him to learn that if you make people unhappy, they may move away in order to not continue allowing you to do that. He feels threatened by that, though, in spite of me saying that. And the problem right then was that he was trying to force me away physically and it seemed counterproductive to allow that to succeed - I didn't want him to learn that it was a good way to get ehat you want.


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I stated I was done, and I am done.

So can we drop it yet and get back to the real purpose of the thread already?
Amris. I've appreciated your input
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Are you saying this is a reason it can't be physical? I'm not sure what point you are making here.
No, I was saying I don't think it's bi-polar. I'mnot ruling out food.

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From what you've written I would very strongly suggest you look into food. It's as simple as starting with a food diary and seeing if you see a pattern. Some foods take days to show reactions but there's usually a pattern (like you might notice that the day after he eats X he's angry while 2 days after he eats Y he's sad all day long).
That I'll do. I didn't realize (though I suppose it's obvious) that the reaction time would vary. thanks for the idea!
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Old 03-13-2007, 04:09 PM
 
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((I don't have much to show for it yet, since I've had no time, but the site is up and it's at www.bamboovillage.org. I got my etsy shop up too, though I'm having a hard time getting good photos of the etched glass pieces... there are only 2 things in there are a result. That one's at http://bamboovillagepress.etsy.com))
beautiful!! i'm definitely buying some drinking glasses when you put them up on the site.
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