LDS Mamas and Papas #44 - Page 21 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#601 of 754 Old 08-28-2007, 07:45 PM
 
DucetteMama21842's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Congratulations! What a trooper!

Eternal Companion to DH , Homeschooling mama to DS 05/04 , DS 11/05 , DD 12/07 , DS 07/10 and one on the way: June 2015!
DucetteMama21842 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#602 of 754 Old 08-28-2007, 07:51 PM
 
nakagain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: at home!
Posts: 634
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OMG!!!
YA congrats!!!
Now go and rest ;-)
nakagain is offline  
#603 of 754 Old 08-28-2007, 09:32 PM
 
guestmama9911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So you were the birth she rescheduled our appointment for!

Many congratulations!
guestmama9911 is offline  
#604 of 754 Old 08-28-2007, 09:42 PM
 
quarteralien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: upstate New York
Posts: 2,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've said congrats elsewhere, but I don't mind upping my post-count
Huge congrats to you and your family!
quarteralien is offline  
#605 of 754 Old 08-28-2007, 10:05 PM
 
marlygf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 1,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Congrats Katie. You are seriously amazing
marlygf is offline  
#606 of 754 Old 08-28-2007, 10:22 PM
 
Stacymom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Congratulations, Katie! I'm so happy for you and your family! I hope you're getting plenty of rest and pampering!

Violin teaching, doula-ing Mom to Abby, (8) Ashlynn, (6) : and Max (11/13/08) Diagnosed with Metopic Craniosynostosis. First surgery 5/1/09, Second surgery March 2010.
Stacymom is offline  
#607 of 754 Old 08-28-2007, 11:50 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Suburbian Sacramento
Posts: 4,712
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi all!

I was once subb'd to this thread but haven't been for awhile. My husband and I converted last year We're going to the temple for the first time in September. I can't wait!
Talula Fairie is offline  
#608 of 754 Old 08-29-2007, 12:40 AM
 
LemonPie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,024
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Katie--Congratulations! Great birth story. Glad you and baby are doing well.

Talula--Congratulations on going to the temple!

Jen

Wife to a great DH, SAHM to 3 great kids
LemonPie is offline  
#609 of 754 Old 08-29-2007, 01:33 AM
 
lava mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Congrats Talula Fairie on your soon-to-be eternal family!

 
Ali hang.gif Mama to Ezra (12/29/05) banana.gifand Willa (09/19/2008) broc1.gifand Louisa (5/29/2011)carrot.gif treehugger.gifnovaxnocirc.gifhomebirth.jpg
 
 

lava mama is offline  
#610 of 754 Old 08-29-2007, 09:10 AM
 
LionTigerBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,455
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Katie-- Wow! Congratulations!!!! That's fantastic! You did such a great job!


Talula Fairie-- congratulations to you too!

♥ blogger astrologer mom to three cool kiddos, and trying to figure out this divorce thing-- Blossom and Glow ♥

LionTigerBear is offline  
#611 of 754 Old 08-29-2007, 11:16 AM
 
danaalex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
whoo hoo katie, congratulations!

talula, i converted last year too. i had hoped to get to the temple before this baby showed up but i don't think that is going to happen

i have to go for my interviews still and i think this child is knocking to come out any day now LOL.

congrats on going to the temple together! that's awesome.
danaalex is offline  
#612 of 754 Old 08-29-2007, 06:11 PM
 
Leiahs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Congratulations, Talula! What exciting news. Even more so after I've talked so much today about our current visiting teaching message, centered on the temple. There are some very nice and inspiring quotes about the temple in the August message! I'm so excited for your family

Ok, I'd like to talk a little about something that happened today. I carpooled with my visiting teaching companion to our appointments today. She's a nice person, very talkative (makes up for my quiet moments, for sure), and very eager to do church service and inviting people to church and so on. She's got two young girls, one who is not quite 3, and one who is 11 months. While it was just us, she was talking to me quite a bit about how she's really struggling with discipline. Like she told me about how she always hears "pick your battles" but feels that obedience is just something you have to fight for every time. She cited an example where her almost-3-year-old would pick up something inappropriate, and she'd say, "X, put that down!" No compliance. "X, put that down now!" Still no compliance. And then she'd say, "X, put that down now or I will spank you!" (and as she's giving the example, her tone is very commanding). I kind of went a little speechless at this point.

I admit I'm far from being a gentle parent. I lose control of my temper much more than I feel is appropriate. I have a very long way to go before I reach the point of being Christlike in my parenting. And sometimes I do have physical reactions to things that my kids do. But even with that, it still makes me speechless and horrified to hear a parent actually feel justified in threatening a spanking over a 2 year old not putting something down.

I eventually tried to come up with some words and tried to express the idea of "helping" children with their obedience - like from her example, you can't just sit and TELL her to put something down. If you tell her and it doesn't happen, then you walk over and put it down for her. But then she went off on how she then wants help with everything, from being picked up, to putting her plate on the table, to walking down the hall, etc. And how frustrated she was with her demanding help when she's perfectly capable of doing it herself.

I couldn't really say much at that point, because I still struggle with that attittude a lot myself. But in my heart, I really idealize the way Christ would handle things like that, and I don't think He would ever spank, nor refuse to help a child (or anyone) who asked for help, no matter how silly the request might seem.

I just felt completely inadequate in this situation. She almost seemed like she was asking for input, or at least just some justification or something, because the little input I did have was quickly brushed off as something that causes just a different, also annoying problem.

And then when I got home, I decided to search the gospel library for the term "spank" or "spanking", and got nothing that was encouraging. It seemed like everything justified an ocassional spanking, as long as the parent wasn't angry or overly harsh.

I was hoping you ladies might have some good LDS resources, quotes, articles, or whatever that I might read and possibly share with my companion. It breaks my heart that this very young child is being threatened with spankings over absolutely nothing beyond her developmental progress, is being expected to act years beyond her age...and she's acting out against her sister, who just started walking, and is pushing her over and obviously in need of some extra attention.

And I hope I don't come off as judging her. I have a lot of my own weaknesses, and normally try not to get involved with how other people choose to parent their kids, but the fact that she brought it up with me (and even threatened to spankher daughter while in my car) and seemed so concerned about absolute obedience at this age...well, it seems like a good opportunity to share some alternative views and ideas with her. If they are LDS resources, I'm sure she'd put a lot of stock in them. But I couldn't find anything particularly useful in my search

SAHM to Melinda (Oct '03), Jacob (Aug '05),  Alex (Apr '08), and baby.gif Malcolm (Sept 29, '11)

Leiahs is offline  
#613 of 754 Old 08-29-2007, 08:08 PM
 
guestmama9911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Of course, there is need for discipline with families. But discipline with severity, discipline with cruelty inevitably leads not to correction but rather to resentment and bitterness. It cures nothing and only aggravates the problem. It is self-defeating. The Lord, in setting forth the spirit of governance in His Church, has also set forth the spirit of governance in the home in these great words of revelation:

“No power or influence can or ought to be maintained … , only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; …
“Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;
“That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death” (D&C 121:41, 43–44).
Gordon B. Hinckley, “Behold Your Little Ones,” Ensign, June 2001, 2

In terms of physical abuse, I have never accepted the principle of “spare the rod and spoil the child.” I will be forever grateful for a father who never laid a hand in anger upon his children. Somehow he had the wonderful talent to let them know what was expected of them and to give them encouragement in achieving it.

I am persuaded that violent fathers produce violent sons. I am satisfied that such punishment in most instances does more damage than good. Children don’t need beating. They need love and encouragement. They need fathers to whom they can look with respect rather than fear. Above all, they need example.

I recently read a biography of George H. Brimhall, who at one time served as president of Brigham Young University. Concerning him, someone said that he reared “his boys with a rod, but it [was] a fishing rod” (Raymond Brimhall Holbrook and Esther Hamilton Holbrook, The Tall Pine Tree: The Life and Work of George H. Brimhall, n.p., 1988, p. 62). That says it all.
Gordon B. Hinckley, “Save the Children,” Ensign, Nov. 1994, 52

Church magazines: You have said that your father never laid a hand on any of his children when disciplining them. 4

President Hinckley: That’s right. I don’t believe that children need to be beaten, or anything of that kind. Children can be disciplined with love. They can be counseled—if parents would take the time to sit down quietly and talk with them. Tell them the consequences of misbehaving, of not doing things in the right way. The children would be better off, and I think everyone would be happier.

My father never touched us. He had a wisdom all his own of quietly talking with us. He turned us around when we were moving in the wrong direction, without beating us or taking a strap to us or any of that kind of business. I’ve never been a believer in the physical punishment of children. I don’t think it is necessary.

Church magazines: Sister Hinckley, you have said that “you don’t teach a child not to hit by hitting.” 5

Sister Hinckley: When my daughter Jane was a young girl, she said to me one day that she had a friend who was grounded. I said, “Grounded? What does that mean?” We let our children figure things out for themselves. They knew when they were doing wrong, and they would fix it themselves. One of our daughters decided to stay home from church one Sunday. So she stayed home. She got very lonely. Everybody was in church but her, and she just sat on the lawn. She didn’t try that again. She figured it wasn’t any fun. It was lonely.
“At Home with the Hinckleys,” Ensign, Oct. 2003, 22

Whatever Brigham Young’s influence may have been upon the lives of his children in their early years, his efforts to direct them continued even after they left home to begin their preparations in life. The letters they received from their father were an important source of direction for them. Many of these letters are a reflection of his belief that Solomon’s saying, “spare the rod and spoil the child,” ought to be altered to “spare the rod” and “give good counsel to children and thus draw them to you.”
Dean C. Jessee, “Your Affectionate Father, Brigham Young: The Prophet’s Letters to His Sons (Part 2),” Ensign, Apr. 1974, 63


I had an experience once that taught me something as a grandfather. It was the night of the June Dance Festival at the University of Utah football stadium, and my daughter’s two oldest children were giving her a “bad time,” as she called it. So I said, “How would you like it if I took your two boys up to the stadium to the dance festival?” She said, “Oh, Daddy, if you’d do that, I’d be so happy.”

I didn’t know what I was getting into, but I took those two boys; one of them was five and the other nearly seven. I didn’t know there was so much difference between a seven-year-old and a five-year-old. The older boy was entranced by that spectacle down on the football field. But that five-year-old, his attention span was pretty short. He’d squirm, and then he’d want to go get a hot dog and he’d want to get a drink and he’d want to go to the toilet, and he was just on the move all the time.

And here I was sitting up front with the General Authorities, and they were smiling at this little show going on as I tried to pull my grandson here and there to make him behave. Finally that little five-year-old turned on me and, with his little doubled-up fist, he smacked me on the side of the face and he said, “Grandfather, don’t shove me!”

And you know, that hurt. In the twilight I thought I could see my brethren chuckling a bit as they saw this going on, and my first impulse was to take him and give him a good spanking. That’s what he deserved. But I’d seen his little mother do something. I’d seen her when he was having a temper tantrum. She had a saying, “You have to love your children when they’re the least lovable.”

So I thought I’d try that out. I had failed in the other process. I took him in my arms and I said to him, “My boy, Grandfather loves you. I so much want you to grow up to be a fine big boy. I just want you to know that I love you.” And his angry little body began to unlimber, and he threw his arms around my neck and he kissed my cheek and he loved me. I had conquered him by love.

President Harold B. Lee
(Sunday School Conference address, October 5, 1973)

Punishment either involves the infliction of something we don’t like or the withdrawal of something we do like. But because both forms of punishment are disagreeable, we assume that once behavior is punished it is less likely to happen again. However, that assumption isn’t always correct.
Any parent who has tried to change a child’s behavior by scolding him, spanking him, or by removing his privileges shouldn’t be surprised when the child exhibits some unwanted side effects—such as tension, sulking, or verbal abuse.

A person who is punished may even develop an actual illness or physiological disorder.

Furthermore, once punishment is removed, misbehavior tends to recur unless the punishment has been extremely intense. These extreme forms of punishment should be avoided in raising children, since cases have been recorded where children have stopped talking for weeks, months, or years following severe punishment by a parent.
Hermann Peine, “Punishment: A Tool, Not a Weapon,” Ensign, Apr. 1974, 47


Mother disciplined us with praise and smiles. She never spanked or scolded, but always saw that when she spoke she was obeyed. She once said: “Of all the ineffective methods of controlling children, threats are the most futile and harmful. … A mother should make promises rarely, but when she does, she should keep them religiously.”

Father had the same feelings that Mother had about discipline. Once when I was trying to train a mare we had just bought, he said, “Never tell an animal or a child to do something that he can’t do, and never tell him to do something that you don’t see that he does.” He never spanked, but he was always obeyed. He never repeated a command or a request. One statement was sufficient.
David L. McKay, “Remembering Father and Mother, President David O. McKay and Sister Emma Ray Riggs McKay,” Ensign, Aug. 1984, 34

“Use no lash and no violence. . . but approach them with reason, with persuasion and love unfeigned. . . The man who will be angry at his boy, and try to correct him while he is in anger, is in the greatest fault. . . You can only correct your children by love, in kindness, by love unfeigned, by persuasion, and reason.”
2Joseph F. Smith (1963), Gospel Doctrine (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book), 316-317.

It is essential for us to recognize that knowing both right and wrong is necessary. One tells us about the other. Sometimes, especially for children, right is what wrong is not; however, the importance of teaching both right and wrong is often lost in the challenges of routine child management. Most of our disciplinary methods, for example, emphasize responses to mistakes children make rather than point to the right choices available to them. Reacting only to correct wrong behavior creates an imbalance unless we give equal emphasis to teaching children the correct thing to do. The most common measures of restricting privileges, yelling or scolding, spanking, or isolating children in their rooms seldom teach what is correct. The very best punishment for misbehavior is to require children, whenever possible, to rehearse what would have been correct but what was not done in the misbehaving situation. Children who argue can be expected to do something cooperatively. Children who hit can help someone. Children who can't get home on time can be given a watch and told to go outside and practice coming in "on time" before they are allowed more extensive time away from home. If we explain to our children what we think is wrong, require them to practice what is right, and use positive reinforcement, they will learn about both right and wrong.
(A.Lynn Scoresby, Bringing Up Moral Children [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1989], 56.)

He always disciplined his children with love, avoiding physical punishment, preferring to look them in the eyes and say, "I wish my children would be good." "No spanking or whipping," said one daughter, "could accomplish what this kindly father did with love" (Joseph F. McConkie, pp. 71-90).
(Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 1-4 vols., edited by Daniel H. Ludlow (New York: Macmillan, 1992), 1354.)

There has been a long-standing debate on whether spanking is a useful form of discipline. Here, I’m not talking about the kind of spanking that either borders on or goes beyond the line of abuse, but spanking where the parent is in control and trying to accentuate a point of discipline. A recent study that looked at data from several decades came to the conclusion that while “normative spanking” may help to stop a behavior, it also increases the likelihood of more oppositional and defiant behavior.5

Brigham Young observed that “kind words and loving actions towards children will subdue their uneducated nature a great deal better than the rod, or, in other words, than physical punishment.6 On another occasion he added, “Let the child have a mild training until it has judgment and sense to guide it. I differ with Solomon’s recorded saying as to spoiling the child by sparing the rod.”7 In making this bold statement of truth, Brigham Young was not in line with the thinking and practices of the 19th century. There are still many today who interpret Proverbs 13:24 as advocating corporal punishment.
On one occasion, a colleague and I were working on a book chapter that, in part, addressed the issue of whether to use or “spare” the rod. Although neither of us is a Hebrew scholar, we used several concordances to look at how and where the word rod is used in the Old Testament. We then double-checked our findings with a Hebrew scholar. We found in Micah 6:9 and Isaiah 11:4, for example, that the exact same word for rod in Hebrew was referred to as “the word of God” just as we read in first Nephi 15:23-24 where the rod is referred to as the “word of God.”

We also looked at what a good shepherd uses a rod for. The shepherd’s rod is never used for beating sheep. Instead, it is used to ward off intruders; to count sheep as they “pass under the rod” (Lev. 27:32; Ezek. 20:37); to part the wool to examine for defects, disease, or wounds; and to nudge sheep gently from going in the wrong direction. The rod is viewed as a protection. In perhaps the most memorable reference to a rod in the scriptures, David, who was once a shepherd himself, said, “thy rod and thy staff they comfort me” (Ps. 23:4; italics added), a passage we would never confuse with any kind of harsh punishment or beating.

As we continued our study, we decided to substitute “word of God” wherever the Old Testament says “rod,” and we checked the Hebrew to make sure it was the same word. There are numerous examples, but here are a few to consider. Proverbs 23:13-14 states, “Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.” That sounds pretty straightforward, but here’s a viable, alternative translation: “Withhold not correction from a child, for if you regulate him with the word of God, he will not die. Regulate him with the word of God, and you will deliver his soul from hell.” That conveys a whole different meaning.

Or consider Proverbs 22:15: “Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.” This could be translated as “Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child, but the word of God drives it far from him.” Finally, the most oftenquoted verse in Proverbs 13:24 which reads “He that spareth his rod hateth his son; but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes” could just as well be read, “He who withholds the word of God hateth his son: he who loveth his son, corrects (or teaches) him early on (when he is young).”

Among the experts, there appear to be two camps in this issue of physical discipline. One line of research suggests that if physical punishment is used with a child between the ages of 2 and 6––meaning a nonabusive, mild slap on the buttocks in the context of a warm and nurturing relationship–– it can probably do some good. It gets a child’s attention. However, another body of research says that even mild physical punishment can lead some children to be more oppositional and defiant later on because of the external controls that are placed on them.8

The debate continues in light of evidence for both sides, with new data supporting one side or the other emerging on a regular basis.9 Given the controversy surrounding all this, I have tried to err on the side of less physical punishm e n t in light of prophetic counsel. President Gordon B. Hinckley, for example, echoing the words of Brigham Young stated, “I have never accepted the principle of ‘spare the rod and spoil the child’... Children don’t need beating. They need love and encouragement.”

When I present these principles and research findings, some parents respond, “Okay, if my child runs out in the street, am I just supposed to let him go?” In this situation, my experience is that a firm reproof, coupled with picking up the child and bringing him back to the sidewalk, definitely sends the same message without the hitting part. The greater and more powerful part of discipline is not the spank, it is the quick, consistent follow through that removes a child from a dangerous situation or teaches a child how to more effectively handle a challenging situation and a clear directive that helps children to realize that the parent has their best interest at heart.
Sometimes, the way a parent disciplines his or her children has more to do with the parent’s needs, convenience or even vanity, than with the child’s actions. To quote Brigham Young again––a religious and political leader who had strongly held views on almost every issue, ranging from settling the West to raising responsible children––“I have seen more parents who were unable to control themselves than I ever saw who were unable to control their children.”10 The research clearly shows that anger is more likely associated with tendencies toward coercion, venting, and hostility, meaning it’s easier for parents to lose control if they’re more inclined to use coercive or authoritarian forms of discipline (i.e., yelling, demeaning, unreasonably harsh consequences, etc).11

This is one area, in particular, where the example we set as parents will likely have longlasting effects. Our ability to act as disciples of Christ, showing forth long-suffering, gentleness, meekness and love unfeigned (see D&C 121:41), will teach our children by example these principles of successful family relationships. President David O. McKay said, “Children are more influenced by the sermons you act than by the sermons you preach.”12 From what we can glean in our research, children pick up a lot in terms of the way they interact with peers by the way they see their parents interacting with family members in the home setting. When negative patterns of coercive behavior are used frequently, these patterns can carry forward from one generation to the next as learned behavior.

“Showing forth afterwards an increase of love” will help ensure that when children need correction, the message that we love them will not be lost. We have many positive tools at our disposal, such as reasoning, setting limits, following through with the consequences we’ve outlined ahead of time, giving rewards, letting our children know when we’re pleased with their behavior. Perhaps, we even surprise them occasionally by taking them out for an ice cream cone when they’ve completed their chores––and having that connection time. We can use the “rod” or word of God as the scriptures teach by helping children understand the principles of the gospel and exemplifying those same important human relationship skills in our interactions with them.
http://marriageandfamilies.byu.edu/i...drenneed2.aspx
guestmama9911 is offline  
#614 of 754 Old 08-29-2007, 09:04 PM
 
holyhelianthus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: the Southern California desert
Posts: 8,823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
welcome to your new LO Katie!!

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
holyhelianthus is offline  
#615 of 754 Old 08-29-2007, 10:07 PM
 
Leiahs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow, Alisa, that is a HUGE list of great quotes! Thank you very much!!

SAHM to Melinda (Oct '03), Jacob (Aug '05),  Alex (Apr '08), and baby.gif Malcolm (Sept 29, '11)

Leiahs is offline  
#616 of 754 Old 08-29-2007, 10:31 PM
 
quarteralien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: upstate New York
Posts: 2,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Great read, Alisa. DH and I are having a good discussion about it.
quarteralien is offline  
#617 of 754 Old 08-29-2007, 10:41 PM
 
Jeanne D'Arc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Native Californian,Washington trans
Posts: 1,976
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I dont know if this has been brought up or not
but, I am a bit concerned because there appear
to be alot of members at my ward who want
to vote for Romney, because he is a
Mormon.

It worries be allot because he is a CFR member
and when i try to bring that up they ignore me.

I honestly think this guy is a bad republican
choice...but I guess what I'm wondering
is if any of you are voting for him because
of his religious status? And if any of you
are aware he is a member of an organization
that Hilary, Obama, and Al Gore also belong to?

Cfr is tied with the NAU which will dissolve
our current constitution and create the North
American Union, uniting Canada the US and
Mexico.

I'm just wondering if my fellow mormons are
aware of this?
Jeanne D'Arc is offline  
#618 of 754 Old 08-29-2007, 10:42 PM
 
danaalex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
maybe there is something else going on at home and she is having a hard time balancing it all?

i know that when things are good at home i am much more patient and tolerant with my family. when things are stressful or not so great i tend to lose it more easily. i am normally NOT a yeller at all, but right now Dh is working 80 hrs per week. he is hardly able to help me at all, i'm due any day now with #4 and i have 3 kids under 6. everyone needs something all at the same time and NO one is able to help me because their tummies hurt, or they can't walk because their knees hurt, or they didn't make the mess, etc.

so unfortunately, the past two days i have found myself yelling

maybe she has a constant strain that she is not even really aware of???

i hope you are able to help her see that yelling and threatening aren't going to help her daughter be more independant or follow directions better! you're a good person for taking an interest and action on her behalf!!
danaalex is offline  
#619 of 754 Old 08-29-2007, 10:59 PM
 
quarteralien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: upstate New York
Posts: 2,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Briseis_of.Troy View Post

I dont know if this has been brought up or not
but, I am a bit concerned because there appear
to be alot of members at my ward who want
to vote for Romney, because he is a
Mormon.

It worries be allot because he is a CFR member
and when i try to bring that up they ignore me.

I honestly think this guy is a bad republican
choice...but I guess what I'm wondering
is if any of you are voting for him because
of his religious status? And if any of you
are aware he is a member of an organization
that Hilary, Obama, and Al Gore also belong to?

Cfr is tied with the NAU which will dissolve
our current constitution and create the North
American Union, uniting Canada the US and
Mexico.

I'm just wondering if my fellow mormons are
aware of this?
Sure looks like Guiliani, McCain, and Thompson are also connected with CFR, so who would that leave? I personally am not voting for Romney because he is Mormon. I have listened to what he has to say and I feel he is the best candidate, independent of his religion.
I'll be honest and say I've never heard of the NAU, but I would think that if we are close to becoming one conglomerate with the rest of North America, we'd have heard about it. When is this slated to happen?
quarteralien is offline  
#620 of 754 Old 08-30-2007, 12:23 AM
 
Leiahs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by danaalex View Post
maybe there is something else going on at home and she is having a hard time balancing it all?

i know that when things are good at home i am much more patient and tolerant with my family. when things are stressful or not so great i tend to lose it more easily. i am normally NOT a yeller at all, but right now Dh is working 80 hrs per week. he is hardly able to help me at all, i'm due any day now with #4 and i have 3 kids under 6. everyone needs something all at the same time and NO one is able to help me because their tummies hurt, or they can't walk because their knees hurt, or they didn't make the mess, etc.

so unfortunately, the past two days i have found myself yelling

maybe she has a constant strain that she is not even really aware of???

i hope you are able to help her see that yelling and threatening aren't going to help her daughter be more independant or follow directions better! you're a good person for taking an interest and action on her behalf!!
No, I certainly don't know the details of her homelife, and again, I hope you can see that I'm trying not to judge her. I honestly think based on today that she just thinks spanking is a normal thing and that 3 year olds can be expected to obey on a consistent basis. (Also, again, I'm far from perfect in this area myself...) She brought up her whole spiel on discipline and spanking when absolutely nothing was going on with her kids - we were just waiting outside our first appointment while the sister finished putting her daughter in bed for a nap, and she brought it up out of nowhere. It was driving between appointments when her older daughter was taking a book from the other daughter that she actually used the threat of a spank in front of me. The older daughter was causing the younger to screech in frustration, and I've found myself at least yelling in the same situation, driving in a car and unable to physically intervene, so it's not like I'm completely unable to relate to the stress of it. But again, her attitude and what she was saying about it really just seemed to say that spanking and perfect obedience were just par for course for this age, and I was just totally lacking anything constructive to say in response.

I'd like to send a lot, if not all, of these quotes to her via email to read, but I also don't want to offend her. Anyone have a nice idea for a tactful way I might share? I was thinking maybe something along the lines of just "Hey, I was thinking about our conversations today, and I can't think on my feet very quickly most of the time, but wanted to share some LDS quotes I've gathered on the topic of discipline that you might find helpful and relevant to your situation." ??

On the topic of political candidates, the : side of me tends to want to vote against Romney just for the fact that he is LDS, but the honest to goodness truth is that I don't really pay any attention to political stuff until very close to elections, and I've been waaaay out of the news loop for the last year, so I have absolutely no idea which candidate I might actually like.

SAHM to Melinda (Oct '03), Jacob (Aug '05),  Alex (Apr '08), and baby.gif Malcolm (Sept 29, '11)

Leiahs is offline  
#621 of 754 Old 08-30-2007, 12:40 AM
 
holyhelianthus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: the Southern California desert
Posts: 8,823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
don't get me started on Romney.

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
holyhelianthus is offline  
#622 of 754 Old 08-30-2007, 01:04 AM
 
Jeanne D'Arc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Native Californian,Washington trans
Posts: 1,976
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


This website will tell you everything you need to know
about the NAU and CFR .

www.stopthenau.org
Jeanne D'Arc is offline  
#623 of 754 Old 08-30-2007, 01:21 AM
 
TopazBlueMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by quarteralien View Post
Sure looks like Guiliani, McCain, and Thompson are also connected with CFR, so who would that leave?
How 'bout Ron Paul?

:
TopazBlueMama is offline  
#624 of 754 Old 08-30-2007, 02:16 AM
 
guestmama9911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by quarteralien View Post
Great read, Alisa. DH and I are having a good discussion about it.
I actually think this is the list NewCrunchyDaddy put together. Niether of us can remember who did it!
guestmama9911 is offline  
#625 of 754 Old 08-30-2007, 02:21 AM
 
guestmama9911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know a lot of people who support Ron Paul, both conservatives and liberals, because he is a bit of a Libertarian - for example, he is against compulsory vaccinations.

We are in fact supporters of Barack Obama, and active Mormons, so...I don't know what you think that says about us, but I don't know enough about CFR to have an opinion one way or another on it.
guestmama9911 is offline  
#626 of 754 Old 08-30-2007, 02:39 AM
 
Jeanne D'Arc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Native Californian,Washington trans
Posts: 1,976
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I know a lot of people who support Ron Paul, both conservatives and liberals, because he is a bit of a Libertarian - for example, he is against compulsory vaccinations.

We are in fact supporters of Barack Obama, and active Mormons, so...I don't know what you think that says about us, but I don't know enough about CFR to have an opinion one way or another on it.

Hi Alisa,

Doesnt make me feel bad about you at all. I did post a link to
some NAU/CFR site, if you want to take a look at it. I haven't
looked at all of it though. There are also some Canadian
organizations on that site ( if you are Canadian or have
canadian friends ).

I didnt want to make my post confrontational but i am
worried with the amount of our lds brothers and sisters
who might vote because of religion... I personally couldnt
support Romney after i found out he was a cfr member, i
was actually kinda surprised. I just wanted to put it out
there for those who don't know everything about him.
Jeanne D'Arc is offline  
#627 of 754 Old 08-30-2007, 03:44 AM
 
guestmama9911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We don't like Romney for lots of reasons. But we imagine he'll win in Utah based entirely on the fact that he is Mormon. That's not to say some people don't like him for valid reasons.
guestmama9911 is offline  
#628 of 754 Old 08-30-2007, 09:51 AM
 
seren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Where would be the best place to learn about all the candidates? I am unable to vote and dh hasn't really been interested in past years. I would like to be able to discuss with him so that he can vote and maybe by the next one I will be able to also.

Serenity LDS mommy to 4 rambunctious kidlets
seren is offline  
#629 of 754 Old 08-30-2007, 10:48 AM
 
danaalex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
hey becky,
i don't think you're judging at all, like i said i think you're a good person for taking an interest in her situation and trying to find her some good resources for changing her discipline methods.

it's a shame that people think they have to hit their kids to get them to "react."

maybe just email that you weren't sure if she would be interested or not, but you found some information that might help her situation with her daughter and might help her get better control over the situation. i've been very lucky that i've only ever had one friend that spanked and i used to tell her all of the time that i didn't think it was necessary and that she could get better results doing other things.

the thing with her was that she was pretty much cronically stressed out. and spanking was her way of acting out and trying to gain control over HER own emotions. i've read recently a likening of adults spanking to grown up temper tantrums. they aren't really acceptable in adults, but you get the agression and anger out by yelling and then hitting. just like a child i think if an adult looks at it like that they realize that they are doing no better than their child who throws a temper tantrum or yells or hits a sibling.

maybe just send her a little info at a time and see how she reacts, and then go from there.





as for politics, i have watched some of the debates so far. i have NO clue who i support as of now. so far, NONE of them have impressed me too much. a couple stand out as better candidates than others, but i am not drawn to any that have been mentioned in this thread so far LOL. so, i guess i'll have to wait till it's closer to the primaries and see what happens. no matter what, it will be a very interesting race this time around. i am glad there are sooooo many different candidates, i know that much. it will be exciting to see what happens!
danaalex is offline  
#630 of 754 Old 08-30-2007, 12:37 PM
 
marlygf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 1,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
just a thought I had about the phrase "spare the rod, spoil the child" I can't remember everything I learned about this in Seminary, but I do remember that the rod is supposed to be the gospel So it's not actually that you have to hit your kids or you spoil them, you need to teach them the gospel. Of course I remember the whole thing, but that's the main point.

On the Political front, I am all for Obama and have been really annoyed for getting letters to donate money to Mit. Just because I live in Utah doesn't mean I want to give him my money. I would actually never give my money to any political candidates but it's getting annoying to keep getting stuff from him. I have never gotten those before.

Anyway, I watched the democratic debate from U-Tube. I really liked it. I'm actually looking forward to the republican one.

Can I ask one question though? what would be the bad thing about Canada, America and Mexico teaming up? I really don't understand that.
marlygf is offline  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off