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Old 03-28-2008, 11:51 AM
 
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ugh I've had it with ignorance..I spoke to MIL today haven't I suffered enough and I am sick of the lies...we believe in some different god...
why won't these people do the smallest bit of research on something they are so obsessed with...
:

You know what I found really useful in debating the different God thing? I purchased an Arabic-English language bible from this Christian Bible Translating group. Then I went through to familiar passages...and showed my Mom how it said "Allah" for God throughout. You can find it online here...http://www.ibs.org/bibles/arabic/ I usually do Genesis 1...and then go do John 3:16. "Because Allah so loved the world...."



I've also said... "You know, you're right. We don't. Muslims tend to be more in line with the Jews who believe in true monotheism... not a trinity. We tend to agree with the Christians prior to the Council of Nicea who found the concept of Jesus as Divine as going against the commandment to have no other gods. We tend to believe that Jesus prayed to God and not himself because as a good Jewish person he would find the concept of his own divinity sacrilegious. DId you know there's nothing in Judaism that implies the messiah will be God? You're right... we don't worship the same god as the Christians today.... we're more like the Unitarians of the 18th century... you know John Adams, Ben Rush, etc. Clara Barton (founder of the Red Cross) in the 19th century...."

Mom to DS(8), DS(6), DD(4), and DS(1).  "Kids do as well as they can."

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Old 03-28-2008, 03:59 PM
 
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Assalamu Alaikum:

So...two questions...one important...one not so important...

1) Do you let your kids eat left-over non-Muslim holiday candy as long as there are no haram substances in it? (We do. )

2) Do any of you have any feelings regarding Muslims and Life Insurance. I've heard two schools of thought. The problem is in finding a life insurance company that does not invest in haram stuff like casinos, etc. In general, this is the argument I hear on why it's OK http://www.aljazeerah.info/Islam/Isl...l%20Salahi.htm

For me, with us having three kids and DH keeps telling me that Prophet Muhammad said his ummah was supposed to live to between 50-60 years... I worry. I gave up my career to be a stay-at-home Mom.

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Old 03-28-2008, 04:40 PM
 
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Do any of you have any feelings regarding Muslims and Life Insurance. I've heard two schools of thought. The problem is in finding a life insurance company that does not invest in haram stuff like casinos, etc. In general, this is the argument I hear on why it's OK http://www.aljazeerah.info/Islam/Isl...l%20Salahi.htm

For me, with us having three kids and DH keeps telling me that Prophet Muhammad said his ummah was supposed to live to between 50-60 years... I worry. I gave up my career to be a stay-at-home Mom.
Actually that is the first positive opinion of insurance I've encountered. After Mahmoud died I read quite a lot of opinions on life insurance specifically -- we did not have a policy and even if we did the likelihood of it being honored would have been slim, but still it was something I was made curious about from a religious point of view. What I found were pretty universal condemnations, based upon the issue of ambiguous transactions as mentioned in the link you posted as well as gambling (a connection I personally do not see as being a particularly clear one).

That said, like I said it was a pretty universal condemnation of insurance in general, but that doesn't mean I ran out and cancelled my health insurance, you know? It just seems like something that depends a lot on methods and intentions, and I'm sort of glad to see an opinion at least exists different from what I've seen before, even if it is a strongly minority one.
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:56 PM
 
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From what one of my teachers told me about insurance (he was talking about car insurance) was that it is haram but then life in this country would be very difficult to live, especially in the suburbs. So he wasn't really saying it was ok, but he was sort of like, what are you going to do...u know? I think a lot of scholars feel the same about health insurance. Life insurance I never really asked anyone about so can't say much.
But my teacher also said, everything besides Aqeedah is debatable in Islam. Allahualam.
Btw, you mamas rock. I was so impressed with the replies on that thread on the DDC! I was telling my DH, I wish I could debate like that! Masha'allah. I will leave it to those whom Allah has gifted with that ability though .
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:13 PM
 
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There are other opinions out there on its being valid... if it's done in a certain way. I'll try and post the other links I found...

http://www.islamicity.com//dialogue/Q283.HTM

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503543412

http://www.islamic-banking.com/insur.../ma_bhatti.php

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=026...3E2.0.CO%3B2-2

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Old 03-28-2008, 05:23 PM
 
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I never researched or read about life insurance. My DH point of view is that it is not permitted. This article has given me good info on how LI operates and I have concerns with both. 1. Is that if you don't die, then you lose ALL of your money. 2. What types of businesses are the LI agencies investing in? There is also the issue of interest.

I am definately concerned about how I would make it if DH were to die. We could probably have some life savings, but we have tuition to worry about. I guess that's where homeschooling can come in handy

I am a SAHM who continues to put her education on hold in order to raise her children. If something were to happen to DH I wouldn't want to have to go out and work, leaving DC in afterschool or with a babysitter. I kinda hope that social security would help out. I wonder how things are done in Muslim countries?

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Old 03-28-2008, 05:30 PM
 
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I was talking to a friend of mine and we wound up on the issue of homosexuality. My neighborhood is "up and coming", so there is now an influx of different peoples and lifestyles. There seems to be a lot of openly gay males in the neighborhood. You can really tell that these people are couples. My youngest DC don't know anything about homosexuality, but I'm sure when the summer hits that they will get glimpses of it.

How would you explain this to your children? I'm talking about ages 6,5,and 3. I know what DH would say and I have an idea about what I might say, but just want some other opinions.

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Old 03-28-2008, 05:42 PM
 
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I was talking to a friend of mine and we wound up on the issue of homosexuality. My neighborhood is "up and coming", so there is now an influx of different peoples and lifestyles. There seems to be a lot of openly gay males in the neighborhood. You can really tell that these people are couples. My youngest DC don't know anything about homosexuality, but I'm sure when the summer hits that they will get glimpses of it.

How would you explain this to your children? I'm talking about ages 6,5,and 3. I know what DH would say and I have an idea about what I might say, but just want some other opinions.
Hmmmm.... tough question... my DH would probably act like an 11 year old boy and go "eewwwww".

As for me, at those ages, I probably wouldn't say much. If they ask, say that they are two people who love each other. Love is a wonderful thing. When you're older, we'll talk about how Muslims go about finding spouses in a way that pleases Allah(swt).

I've had some gay Muslim friends. I've had some gay Christian friends too. It's been very emotionally difficult on both groups. Most of them have left the faith of their childhood. If one of my children was gay, I would not make the mistake of saying "you're not a Muslim" or some such thing. (I hear that.) I would encourage him or her to keep up with their salat, zakat, sadaqah, etc. I would also say that this may just be your jihad. Just as unrelated people of the opposite sex should not be alone, you should try to avoid being alone with unrelated people of the same sex. If it became very difficult for them to remain celibate, then I would do my best to find them a gay Muslim partner that they could be monogamous with... and continue to be practicing Muslims with. For me, zina is zina. It will be no more acceptable to me for my heterosexual children to sleep around than it would be for my gay children. I would do the best to find as close to an Islamic solution as I could. But then again, people tell me I'm progressive.

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Old 03-28-2008, 06:09 PM
 
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There's a positive story about troops from the UAE helping the Afghani people on the BBC today...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7318731.stm

Mom to DS(8), DS(6), DD(4), and DS(1).  "Kids do as well as they can."

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Old 03-28-2008, 09:44 PM
 
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My best girlfriend just passed and left behind a husband and three boys. The only reason the boys are living in a muslim country now (dads home) and attending a good muslim school is life insurance money. She was the main breadwinner and died in a car accident. That money has been a blessing.
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Old 03-28-2008, 10:47 PM
 
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gay people....simple is always best.
so I err on the side of teaching them to respect people and not make their business what isn't. (its gossip to assume/label someone is gay, or to assume because they are gay they do any practice that might be considered haram by some....as not only gay people do those things kwim? and plenty of hetero people living in sexless marriages

I don't talk about specific sexual practices of any group as I really don't know what they do....anymore than I want to explain what I do in the bedroom to my kids Is that wrong? I have a harder time with practices that hurt people - infidelity, stealing, abuse than two people who love eachother and want to be together. Or people who are gay who get married to hide it...BTDT the first time....

Life insurance....I have it on dh... just enough to cover his death and no investment portion - just term until the kids have left home. Its not like I have a farm, some grain stores, a few cows, five brothers to fall back on etc...its a different day and age.

And chocolate its all good

8 might be enough
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:18 PM
 
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Mamas, I had to remove several posts from this tribe. I am very, very sorry there was something on MDC that was offensive to you. However, posting about it here is also a User Agreement Violation
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Do not start a thread to discuss member behavior or statements of members made in other threads or to criticize another discussion on the boards. Do not post to a thread to take direct issue with a member. If you feel a member has posted or behaved inappropriately in a discussion, communicate directly with the member, moderator or administrator privately and refrain from potentially defaming discussion in a thread.
as well as a violation of the FYT Guidelines:
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Please, do not do this again. If a report doesn't get you what you need, PM a moderator or administrator.

Thanks!

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Old 03-28-2008, 11:28 PM
 
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good to know...I didn't realise that was against the code...
I was just looking for support on how odd that was in the ddc.
guess I got to read those guidelines again...

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Old 03-29-2008, 12:11 AM
 
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I've removed two more posts. If you have questions or concerns about this, feel free to PM me, as per the User Agreement, but discussion on this thread needs to stop. Thank you.
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Do not post to debate or challenge the MDC User Agreement, the moderators, administrators, or their actions. Constructive criticism and questions for purposes of clarification are best addressed directly to the moderator or administrator by private message or personal e-mail.

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Old 03-29-2008, 01:19 AM
 
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Assalamu Alaikum:

So, I see that some of the Mamas here have more than three kids. We're thinking about #4. Can I ask how difficult a transition it was from three to four? I've already figured out that we'd never be able to go anywhere as a family in a normal car... LOL My dreams of a Prius would be out unless it's my Mom-only midlife crisis mobile....

Peace.

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Old 03-29-2008, 01:34 AM
 
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I am pregnant with number four...so cannot tell you yet although I have been the most tired this pregnancy...
or what I call ugly cars only in my future

8 might be enough
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Old 03-29-2008, 10:38 AM
 
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Hmmmm.... tough question... my DH would probably act like an 11 year old boy and go "eewwwww".

As for me, at those ages, I probably wouldn't say much. If they ask, say that they are two people who love each other. Love is a wonderful thing. When you're older, we'll talk about how Muslims go about finding spouses in a way that pleases Allah(swt).

I've had some gay Muslim friends. I've had some gay Christian friends too. It's been very emotionally difficult on both groups. Most of them have left the faith of their childhood. If one of my children was gay, I would not make the mistake of saying "you're not a Muslim" or some such thing. (I hear that.) I would encourage him or her to keep up with their salat, zakat, sadaqah, etc. I would also say that this may just be your jihad. Just as unrelated people of the opposite sex should not be alone, you should try to avoid being alone with unrelated people of the same sex. If it became very difficult for them to remain celibate, then I would do my best to find them a gay Muslim partner that they could be monogamous with... and continue to be practicing Muslims with. For me, zina is zina. It will be no more acceptable to me for my heterosexual children to sleep around than it would be for my gay children. I would do the best to find as close to an Islamic solution as I could. But then again, people tell me I'm progressive.
, I can tell you that I never would expect to read a response like this from a Muslimah. I am absolutely floored, shocked, to say the least. Most of what you wrote in response would never be told to DC by me, except the part of zina being zina.

I certainly didn't pose my original question because I wanted a debate(I'm sooo anti-confrontation), but I couldn't sleep last night. You would find your DC a mate of the same sex and not think twice about it, because you wouldn't want them committing zina? How about committing haram? Who says that same sex marriage is permissable in Islam?

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Old 03-29-2008, 10:49 AM
 
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, I can tell you that I never would expect to read a response like this from a Muslimah. I am absolutely floored, shocked, to say the least. Most of what you wrote in response would never be told to DC by me, except the part of zina being zina.

I certainly didn't pose my original question because I wanted a debate(I'm sooo anti-confrontation), but I couldn't sleep last night. You would find your DC a mate of the same sex and not think twice about it, because you wouldn't want them committing zina? How about committing haram? Who says that same sex marriage is permissable in Islam?
Jannah.. it's probably inappropriate to debate this on MDC. That is my response. I would not say that to my young child... I would say what I posted earlier. The latter part is what I would do if one of my children was gay. I do not believe people choose to be gay. The people I know who are gay and religious have been tormented by that fact. And yes, I would help my gay child find a gay Muslim partner if they did not feel they could live with a lifetime of celibacy. Because to me, it would be much better for them to be in a committed monogamous relationship with someone of a similar sexual preference rather than to be in a sham marriage or to be sleeping with a succession of people.

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Old 03-29-2008, 11:52 AM
 
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Assalamu Alaikum:

So, I see that some of the Mamas here have more than three kids. We're thinking about #4. Can I ask how difficult a transition it was from three to four? I've already figured out that we'd never be able to go anywhere as a family in a normal car... LOL My dreams of a Prius would be out unless it's my Mom-only midlife crisis mobile....

Peace.
Wa Alaikum Asalam

We are about to have #5. To be honest, the transition wasn't that bad at all. I think that after number three, it really isn't that diferent adding a few more. Finances and time gets stretched a little tighter, and your nerves can get a little more worn at times, but overall, it is kind of nice to have a big family. The kids like having a big family too (most of the time), it gives them more people to play with, like built in friends.
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Old 03-29-2008, 12:44 PM
 
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Wa Alaikum Asalam

We are about to have #5. To be honest, the transition wasn't that bad at all. I think that after number three, it really isn't that diferent adding a few more. Finances and time gets stretched a little tighter, and your nerves can get a little more worn at times, but overall, it is kind of nice to have a big family. The kids like having a big family too (most of the time), it gives them more people to play with, like built in friends.
Mabrook on #5

I was thinking it probably didn't make much difference after 3. I grew up in a small family... one brother... as did my husband. We both are enjoying our large (to our families) family... and think we would like to have one more. We're always going to be budgeting with three anyways. The only time it's really going to make a big difference (I think) is when we go back to Egypt to visit his family.... or when college comes around. My guess is we'll probably alternate which kids get to go to Egypt, and which kids stay in the States.

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Old 03-29-2008, 04:17 PM
 
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My best girlfriend just passed and left behind a husband and three boys. The only reason the boys are living in a muslim country now (dads home) and attending a good muslim school is life insurance money. She was the main breadwinner and died in a car accident. That money has been a blessing.
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'oon.

As alluded to in my own post on the subject, when my husband passed away I was regretful of not having had the option of life insurance, social security benefits, etc, to provide some financial security, but have since found myself with other blessings in their stead that I might not have expected and which, looking at them objectively, are better for me than the money would have been.

Not knocking anyone's decision to take insurance policies ... like I said before, I'm not on the "it's a black and white issue of haram" boat, and if I did have such resources available I certainly think I'd not turn them down. I just mean to say that we can never know what would happen, or what we might be given, if circumstances are changed.
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Old 03-29-2008, 09:16 PM
 
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You would find your DC a mate of the same sex and not think twice about it, because you wouldn't want them committing zina? How about committing haram? Who says that same sex marriage is permissable in Islam?
I think that children will make choices, we may not want those choices for our children but we have to support them to make the best out of their lives. I hope that my children live the best life possible for them, if they choose to be gay/are gay then I would want someone for them with as similar cultural religious values.

What about a child born intersexed? A child born who was trangendered - there are different rulings on that in Islam.

I have personally known people who have committed suicide because of their sexuality...I think its a huge burden and I wouldn't want my child to suffer psychologically thinking they were letting me down so they might be tempted to make that type of decision.

IMO suicide as only Allah is supposed to know our day of death is a larger sin that zina no? Also I wouldn't want my child lying to me and hiding their lifestyle...I want honestly with my children. I also think if its talked about and out in the open then its not as big of a deal...But I think that would come as a process not mom dad I am gay hey son lets find you a mate tomorrow....

It could be worse they could become a life insurance agent

8 might be enough
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Old 03-30-2008, 11:50 AM
 
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I think that children will make choices, we may not want those choices for our children but we have to support them to make the best out of their lives. I hope that my children live the best life possible for them, if they choose to be gay/are gay then I would want someone for them with as similar cultural religious values.

What about a child born intersexed? A child born who was trangendered - there are different rulings on that in Islam.

I have personally known people who have committed suicide because of their sexuality...I think its a huge burden and I wouldn't want my child to suffer psychologically thinking they were letting me down so they might be tempted to make that type of decision.

IMO suicide as only Allah is supposed to know our day of death is a larger sin that zina no? Also I wouldn't want my child lying to me and hiding their lifestyle...I want honestly with my children. I also think if its talked about and out in the open then its not as big of a deal...But I think that would come as a process not mom dad I am gay hey son lets find you a mate tomorrow....

It could be worse they could become a life insurance agent
I was going to leave this one alone, but since you responded.....
For me, I can't go on my feelings and what I would want. I have to refer back to what Allah says. If he is not accepting of it, then who am I to be, regardless of my relationship with that person? I have a nephew who is gay(not Muslim), it doesn't mean that I don't love him as my nephew, I do. At the same time, I love what Allah loves and hate what he hates.

The issue of being intersexed is different. I'm not sure about the whole transgendered thing.

Personally, if my child were gay, I'm one of those parents who would want to be left in the dark.

You are right suicide is a larger sin than zina. IMO those people who commit suicide(not including those with mental issues) are letting their pain overtake them, forgetting that this life is temporary. Perhaps some of them don't believe or just want the pain to stop, but suicide won't stop that. If my children were going through any issues(not just homosexuality), I pray to Allah(SWT) that suicide would not be an option.

Anyway, like Umsami said before MDC is not the forum for this issue. I asked for feedback as to what to tell young DC. I choose not to use any of those recommendations so, lets just agree to disagree

May Allah grant us with offspring who are obedient and upon the straight path, Ameen.

Now back to the mothering.

So, I'm thinking that I might be preggo. I'm having a few symptoms, but I don't know if they are menses related. I usually know that I'm preggo because I miss my menses. I always ignore the other signs. Then when I discover that I'm preggo, I'm like 'that's why I was.......'. So, for you ladies, how did you know?

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Old 03-30-2008, 12:14 PM
 
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So, I'm thinking that I might be preggo. I'm having a few symptoms, but I don't know if they are menses related. I usually know that I'm preggo because I miss my menses. I always ignore the other signs. Then when I discover that I'm preggo, I'm like 'that's why I was.......'. So, for you ladies, how did you know?
Mabrook Jannah

For me, I've always had extremely regular periods... even when I'm breastfeeding exclusively, usually my periods return in the 3rd or 4th month like clockwork. So for all of my kids and my two miscarriages, basically when it hit day 29, I knew I was preggers. I also have always just had a feeling. I can't say what that feeling was/is... but just a sort of "Hmmmm...I think I'm pregnant." I don't get nausea (or at least haven't yet with any pregnancy)... I don't get breast tenderness early on. So, I can't really pinpoint the feeling.

Mom to DS(8), DS(6), DD(4), and DS(1).  "Kids do as well as they can."

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Old 03-30-2008, 12:20 PM
 
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Oh, I meant to post this for any of the NY-area Mamas...

Shaykh Hamza Yusuf is coming to NYC.

Zaytuna Minara Program - Sunday, April 27, 2008

God and Country: A Guide to Faithful Citizenship in America

Shaykh Hamza Yusuf & Dr. Khalid Blankinship (Temple University)

The Great Hall at the Cooper Union
7 East 7th Street
New York City, New York 10003

Registration will open soon! www.zaytuna.org

I really really want to go. I'm hoping I can get DH to watch the kiddies.

Mom to DS(8), DS(6), DD(4), and DS(1).  "Kids do as well as they can."

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Old 03-30-2008, 12:33 PM
 
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Mabrook Jannah

For me, I've always had extremely regular periods... even when I'm breastfeeding exclusively, usually my periods return in the 3rd or 4th month like clockwork. So for all of my kids and my two miscarriages, basically when it hit day 29, I knew I was preggers. I also have always just had a feeling. I can't say what that feeling was/is... but just a sort of "Hmmmm...I think I'm pregnant." I don't get nausea (or at least haven't yet with any pregnancy)... I don't get breast tenderness early on. So, I can't really pinpoint the feeling.
Oh, Mabrook on your pregnancy. As for me, It's not my desire to be pregnant, but everything is from Allah. My last DC was born via c-section 6 1/2 months ago. DH and I decided no more children, because I have to have repeat sections. I intend/intended on getting the IUD.

For me, I always get my menses the next month. I'm not one of those blessed with a years rest. I always know for sure because my cycles are EXTREMELY regular. Looking back on it my early symptoms of pregnancy are fatigue, lightheadedness(is that a word), hunger. Also those that mimick the menses, bloating, tender breast.

What I'm feeling now is queazy, bloating, tender breast, and just that feeling. Unfortunately I have been marking my cycles down on the calendar, so I'll have to wait and see.

: 2:Ma To 6 :12,8,7,5,2,1&
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Old 03-30-2008, 03:22 PM
 
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I knew the night each of my children was conceived. I'm not sure how or why, but I knew. Twice I had doctors tell me that I couldn't possibly know, but I did. My early symptoms are overwhelming fatigue and overwhelming hunger--within days of conception.

I'm hoping for #3 ASAP, but have no idea how that's going to happen. AF returned in February, I've had two cycles so far, and they've been weird--three weeks of bleeding, followed by two weeks off. We're not actively preventing or actively TTC, just leaving it up to Allah's wisdom and kinda hoping that it happens soon.

Oh, and tebrikler on the possibility.
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Old 03-30-2008, 11:19 PM
 
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I knew the night each of my children was conceived. I'm not sure how or why, but I knew. Twice I had doctors tell me that I couldn't possibly know, but I did. My early symptoms are overwhelming fatigue and overwhelming hunger--within days of conception.

I'm hoping for #3 ASAP, but have no idea how that's going to happen. AF returned in February, I've had two cycles so far, and they've been weird--three weeks of bleeding, followed by two weeks off. We're not actively preventing or actively TTC, just leaving it up to Allah's wisdom and kinda hoping that it happens soon.

Oh, and tebrikler on the possibility.
NO way, I just wrote almost 3 paragraphs with 1 hand cuz bak, but it got erased. AHHHHHH, I'll send my reply later:

: 2:Ma To 6 :12,8,7,5,2,1&
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:01 AM
 
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NO way, I just wrote almost 3 paragraphs with 1 hand cuz bak, but it got erased. AHHHHHH, I'll send my reply later:
Ugh! I hate when that happens! And it seems to happen to me all too often. :
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Old 03-31-2008, 03:00 PM
 
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I ordered some HPT's on ebay, so We'll see.

Dh is on the way to the Dr. He just found out that he has Bell's Palsy. It hasn't progressed to very noticeable paralysis of the face. Inshallah he can start on medication and will recover soon.

: 2:Ma To 6 :12,8,7,5,2,1&
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