Has Jehovah's Witness culture become more progressive? - Mothering Forums

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Old 08-17-2007, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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To be VERY VERY clear, this is not a JW bashing thread. This is an honest to goodness desire to know what life is like for a JW today.

I think JW are probably among the the most honest, ethical people I have ever met.

That said, I havent been around them for 8 yrs more or less. Back in my day there was a very specific code of behavior that was acceptable.

On another thread it was said that they are not advised against going on message boards.... true?

Is it ok to become close friends and hang out regularly with a Non-JW?

As I recall it there were a lot of "recommendations" that were not outright rules but defined how "good" a Witness you were.

Seeing R movies, not allowed.

Biblical research outside of watchtower publications, not allowed.

Disagreeing with the Watchtower org and talking about it, not allowed.

Is this kind of stuff changing. Eight years is a long time.

I dont think the general public realizes the extent of the input the church leadership has into the day to day running of people's lives. Is this bad? For those who choose it, no. Not unlike any other restrictive religion that anyone happily abides by.

If anyone out there has an older, long time JW relative they can ask that would be awesome.

Please, refrain from getting ugly as Id rather not have this thread pulled. Hmm, Ive never read the UA for this forum so maybe it will be anyway.
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Old 08-17-2007, 06:43 PM
 
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subbing.
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:15 AM
 
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Okay, this is totally anecdotal so I don't know if it will be helpful but...

The mother of my best friend IRL converted to JW and married the head of the JW community in their town...I'm sorry, I don't know the proper terminology, but he led the services at the Kingdom Hall or something of that nature? Again, apologies for not knowing the proper terms!

Anyway, although her mother converted before marriage my friend did not convert and is in fact happily atheist. This didn't seem to be a problem for her step-father and my friend didn't feel like he was trying to convert her after the first few months (though as an adult she didn't see her mother/step-father very frequently).

I don't know if this indicates a greater or lesser openess in the religion in general or just in this specific community (or family unit), but I thought I'd share...

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Old 08-18-2007, 12:20 AM
 
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Great questions! i a going to keep my eye on this thread

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Old 08-18-2007, 09:27 PM
 
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My understanding is that NO, things are not more progressive. As always, the "rules" are one thing, and the things the "good" JWs do are something else.
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Old 08-18-2007, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Tishie, do you feel comfortable sharing how recent your info is?

On another thread in this forum Pyrodjm said that said that, if she showed an elder the a transcript of the "Cant get a job because of my religion" thread he would tell her that he was glad the OP was able to get counsel from an older wiser sister. Thats a big change. If I had done that with one of my elders and revealed that I was looking around and participating on "spirituality" forum I would've been in doo-doo town.

Now, if she had responded in the parenting xpost that I could almost get.
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Old 08-19-2007, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Does anyone know if things like going to prom, joining student council, teenagers dating without parental approval are still frowned upon? I know that some JWs have always allowed their kids to do some of those things but again, not the platform worthy, exemplary kind.

I would really love to hear.
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Old 10-01-2007, 07:44 PM
 
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Bumping...I'm wondering too. I had heard that there was recent direction to avoid message boards, but am not sure if that's the case or not.
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Old 04-20-2008, 02:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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just bumping, always curious...

I heard that JWs are no longer "allowed" to have small groups study/research outside of congregation organized study.

Ex. You and me are archeology nuts, we cant get together anymore and do research on biblical archeology.... etc..

Is that true? It sounded off.
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Old 04-22-2008, 01:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AlmostAPpropriate View Post
just bumping, always curious...

I heard that JWs are no longer "allowed" to have small groups study/research outside of congregation organized study.

Ex. You and me are archeology nuts, we cant get together anymore and do research on biblical archeology.... etc..

Is that true? It sounded off.
That was mentioned in a Kingdom Ministry back in fall, IIRC. It said they don't "endorse" it and that they have plenty of their own publications for you to read.

You might want to check out www.jehovahs-witness.com The members of that board are quite informative about this type of thing.

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Old 04-23-2008, 01:58 AM
 
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Oh boy. I usuallly try to stay out of these threads, but here goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostAPpropriate View Post
To be VERY VERY clear, this is not a JW bashing thread. This is an honest to goodness desire to know what life is like for a JW today.

I think JW are probably among the the most honest, ethical people I have ever met.

That said, I havent been around them for 8 yrs more or less. Back in my day there was a very specific code of behavior that was acceptable.

On another thread it was said that they are not advised against going on message boards.... true?
Not necessarily. I frequent this forum and a few other ones (dealing with cloth diapering and natural hair) very often. This forum is research to me. I learn a lot of stuff here. I come here to learn from other moms like myself. It's all up to what my concious will allow me to do. I have to know myself. Now, if I became, er, overly obsessesed and consumed with coming online to this forum then I would have a problem. But that's not just me, that's anybody. I have a life to live and responsibilities to my family and myself outside of the internet, and I have to keep a balanced view.

Quote:
Is it ok to become close friends and hang out regularly with a Non-JW?
It's not wrong, you just have to watch yourself. And once again, it's up to your conscience. If you have a code of behavior to yourself that you want to display (like, no cursing, etc.) it's kind of hard to be really close friends with some one who does a lot of things that you don't do without picking up little habits and behaviors of that person. (I know that from personal experience.)

And I mean, if you believe something to the core of your being to be so, it's kind of hard being close friends with some one who believes completely opposite.

Say for instance, I believe deeply in breastfeeding and not circumcising, and that has nothing to do with my religion. It's very difficult for me to wrap my head around some one who refuses to bf just as a matter of choice and who circumcises their infant for cosmetic reasons, and won't listen at all to my point of view, or "agrees to disagree" with me. Personally, I think circumcision is child abuse, I DEEPLY feel this, and it's hard for me not constantly be thinking this as I'm trying to be friends with some one who doesn't feel that way. (Just search this forum, there are LOTS of threads with people pondering whether or not an avid intactivist could remain close friends with some one who willfully and deliberately circumcises their kids.)

You can kind of say the same thing about being friends with some one who is not a JW. When you have deep moral convictions that you lead your life by, sometimes it's hard to be really close to some one who's lifestyle is totally different from yours, who doesn't share the same dreams you have, and who doesn't necessarily support your goals. It makes confiding things in that person difficult (I know THAT from experience as well). I mean, I have people I worked with that I LOVE talking too, but I can never get into really deep relationships often because we are just too different. But that's just me.

Quote:
As I recall it there were a lot of "recommendations" that were not outright rules but defined how "good" a Witness you were.

Seeing R movies, not allowed.
Up to your own level of comfort.

Quote:
Biblical research outside of watchtower publications, not allowed.
Completely false. We can do as much research as we want anywhere that we want. However, there is propoganda out there by some exJW's targeting Jw's specifically, with the sole purpose trying get them to leave. We do try to stay away from that particular sort of literature and publications.

Quote:
Disagreeing with the Watchtower org and talking about it, not allowed.
................I'm kind scratching my head on that one. Personally, I've never seen anything in a publication that struck me as something disagreeable. Sometimes something confused me, and if I went and ask some one what exactly was meant by a phrase, or something, I always got an answer. Some people even write in to the editor of the magazine with corrections to their material, and if necessary, the editor writes back with apologies and corrections. It's no big deal, really.

Quote:
Is this kind of stuff changing. Eight years is a long time.
My parents viewpoint of things is totally different from mine. (They were Jw's back in the day.) I'd say things were different back then. But I had to learn what is the religion and what is my parents. A lot of stuff they said was the religion was really just them being extra strict. Once I learned to seperate myself from my parents way of viewing the religion and learn about it on my own, and really make the religion my own instead of following my parents, I found it much less strict and easier to live life by.

Quote:
I dont think the general public realizes the extent of the input the church leadership has into the day to day running of people's lives. Is this bad? For those who choose it, no. Not unlike any other restrictive religion that anyone happily abides by.
REally, the church leaders in my area don't have any input in running my life at all. All JW's try as best as they can to live by the bible, and we try to live our lives according to what the bible says we should or shouldn't do, not according to what some "leader" says we should do. So I would have to say it is the bible that has impacting on us running our day to day lives rather than a person or group of people in general. It is something we chose to do.


Anyhow, I tried to answer questions as best as my pregnant mommy brain will let me. I usually don't stick around threads like this, and I know my answers may upset some people, so with this, I'll bow out of this thread. Hope I could be of some help to you, OP.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:25 AM
 
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I left less than two years ago and am in contact with people who left much more recently than that. I can answer according to what things were like at the time I left, and what I know from others who left more recently.

Quote:
On another thread it was said that they are not advised against going on message boards.... true?
Not exactly, there is a loophole here. They are cautioned against chatting online with "worldy" people. Chat rooms are specifically mentioned, and so if you are a JW who does everything to the letter you will not use a discussion board, if you look for loopholes (no offense to any JW, I loved those loopholes ) then you would feel that a discussion board is different than a chat room and you could make a pretty good argument in favor of that. However, the main point lately has been 'stay off the internet', and JW's are strongly advised about the evils and dangers that lurk here. So, yes, JW's are discouraged from using the internet for just browsing, wasting time, and talking to "worldly" people, but specifically forbidden to go to chat rooms or porn sites.

Quote:
Is it ok to become close friends and hang out regularly with a Non-JW?
Will you get in trouble if you do it? No. Will you be able to have privledges in the congregation? Not likely. Is it "okay"? It's strongly discouraged. JW's are warned against this all the time. At almost every meeting, assembly, convention, you know; "bad associations spoil useful habits" is still the mantra.

Quote:
As I recall it there were a lot of "recommendations" that were not outright rules but defined how "good" a Witness you were.
Yes, there still are. The very spiritual "pillars of the congregation" do every single recommendation, and the "weak" ones push the envelope. This hasn't changed.

Quote:
Seeing R movies, not allowed.
Not quite. You wont get disfellowhiped (excommunicated) for seeing one. You will however be removed as a pioneer, servant, or from having any privileges if anyone knows that you watch them, in other words you wont be in good standing. It is highly recommended that you don't watch them and is not presented as a conscience issue.

Quote:
Biblical research outside of watchtower publications, not allowed.
It depends on what you mean. Can JW's read or study the bible without a Watchtower publication? Yes. Can they take a bible study class that is not taught by a JW? No. Can they read a "wordly" book that aids them in bible study? No, absolutely not.

Quote:
Disagreeing with the Watchtower org and talking about it, not allowed.
Nope, not allowed, given that your talking about big issues like 607, the Noachian flood, the age of mankind, the alleged inaccuracies of the New World Translation, etc. You are labeled an apostate and disfellowshipped for openly disagreeing with the Watchtower Society. This is why there is such strong unity (everyone in the religion believes the same exact thing or they would be kicked out).

As a side note, my Dh wrote letters back and forth to the Watchtower Society in disagreement with something they taught. They eventually told him to "drop the issue" and not to talk to anyone about it. His entire correspondence with them can be found here if anyone is interested; http://www.watchtowerletters.com/

Quote:
Is this kind of stuff changing. Eight years is a long time.
Um, yeah, a lot has changed in eight years, but none of the things your asking about have as far as I know. One wild thing that I just found is that there is a rumor going around that they are no longer going to have book study! Can you imagine? And also, it used to be that pretty much all blood was a no no, but now several types of blood fractions are okay.

Quote:
I dont think the general public realizes the extent of the input the church leadership has into the day to day running of people's lives. Is this bad? For those who choose it, no. Not unlike any other restrictive religion that anyone happily abides by.
You mean; what you can wear, how you can have sex with your marriage mate, what movies and shows you can watch, how much schooling you can have, what kind of car you can drive, what congregation you attend, how you use your vacation time, etc. Yeah, this stuff is still being influenced by JW leaders. Is it bad? It can be for many people. If you feel you are right and will be rewarded, I am sure you can live a very happy life that way. I know Dh's grandparents have been plugging along for over 50 years as JW's and they claim to be happy.

Quote:
Does anyone know if things like going to prom, joining student council, teenagers dating without parental approval are still frowned upon? I know that some JWs have always allowed their kids to do some of those things but again, not the platform worthy, exemplary kind.
Yes, all still frowned upon. Most JW's don't let their kids do this stuff, even the ones who aren't the "strong" ones. And, the religion itself strongly discourages it.

Quote:
I heard that JWs are no longer "allowed" to have small groups study/research outside of congregation organized study. (Ex. You and me are archeology nuts, we cant get together anymore and do research on biblical archeology.... etc..) Is that true? It sounded off.
Yes, this is very true, and is not a new teaching either. Here is a quote from the article you are referring to from the September 2007 issue of "Our Kingdom Ministry" under the article heading "Questions From Readers":

Quote:
Question: "Does the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" endorse independent groups of Witnesses who meet together to engage in scriptural research or debate?"

Answer: "No, it does not." Read the rest of the article here.
Hope it's okay that I commented here. I know your probably looking for current JW's, so I'll step out now
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Old 04-24-2008, 07:06 PM
 
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Jennica
Just about all you said is false.

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Old 04-25-2008, 11:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Shianne View Post
Jennica
Just about all you said is false.
I didn't see any false statements made by Jennica. I have JW family (including a member of the anointed) members in good standing. I know what Jennica is talking about and she is absolutely right.

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Old 04-25-2008, 01:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Shianne View Post
Jennica
Just about all you said is false.
Can you give me examples? I can provide you with quotes from the Watchtower Society to prove that what I am saying is true. I didn't include quotes because I didn't want to spend the time to gather them, but, I can if someone is accusing me of lying.
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree, i didnt see anything false and the response seemed educated and objective.

I doubt Shianne will respond. This is usually the point at which many JWs begin to feel uncomfortable. When they are called to look at inaccuracies & control issues head on & discuss them. The JW indoctrination is very strong when it comes to keeping outside opinions at bay.

Regarding control issues I will relate a personal experience.

In the 7th grade I was acting out. I let a boy from school touch my body. I was consumed with guilt, I had just forfeited my eternal life. I prayed about it but that wasnt enough. I told my parents. They in turn, because I was baptized and the boy knew I was JW, had to tell the elders. (And yes, they had to, according to the rules. My father is a former district overseer and researched before doing it.) So we had a meeting with 2 elders where I had to describe, in detail, where I let the boy touch me, for how long, how often, etc. It was humiliating. It resulted in a private censure and loss of privleges (In a public censure they actually stand in front of the cong and say "XYZ has been censured blah blah blah) For about 3 months I was not allowed to raise my hand and comment or get up and do a "part" on the platform. (Part being a skit where you practice a preaching situation).

But it worked, the humiliation and fear that experience caused turned me into a hyper-rule following JW. Two years later and I was an ideal witness, full time ministering, participating in convention "parts" etc.
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Old 04-28-2008, 01:26 PM
 
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Um, yeah, a lot has changed in eight years, but none of the things your asking about have as far as I know. One wild thing that I just found is that there is a rumor going around that they are no longer going to have book study! Can you imagine? And also, it used to be that pretty much all blood was a no no, but now several types of blood fractions are okay.
Shianne,

If you went to your Sunday meeting yesterday, then you now also know that I was even right about this. 'Book Study' is now called 'Bible Study' and has been grouped into another meeting on a different night, therefore eliminating one meeting a week. Is this the thing you thought was "false"?
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:41 PM
 
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Will you be able to have privledges in the congregation? Not likely.
For having friends outside the congregration. NO this is false.
Quote:
Can they read a "wordly" book that aids them in bible study? No, absolutely not.
This is false. But then again I would have to know an example of a "worldly" book. I have looked up other books to clarify a point or to get the whole meaning of a context. So have elders that I know.
Quote:
You mean; what you can wear, how you can have sex with your marriage mate, what movies and shows you can watch, how much schooling you can have, what kind of car you can drive, what congregation you attend, how you use your vacation time, etc. Yeah, this stuff is still being influenced by JW leaders.
This is false. Yes JWs dress modestly, but the organization does not tell you what to wear on a daily basis. Does not tell you how to have sex with your mate. It is stated that as long as it is mutual and one is not doing something that is uncomfortable, bothers the others conscience or goes against what is written in the Bible, it is strictly between the married couple. Again what to watch is a conscience matter unless it goes against what is written in the Bible such as spiritism. What might offend one may not offend another. No one tells another what type of car to drive or how to use vacation time.
It is recommended that you attend the congregation that is closest to you, but it is not a requirement. I happen to drive all the way across town to go to my hall and they are happy to have us. My oldest goes to another town to attend a hall.

Quote:
I doubt Shianne will respond. This is usually the point at which many JWs begin to feel uncomfortable. When they are called to look at inaccuracies & control issues head on & discuss them. The JW indoctrination is very strong when it comes to keeping outside opinions at bay.
Sorry,not uncomfortable at all here. But it is one of the things that makes for useless convo. You are set in believing the evilness behind the organization ant that is your right. Don't assume that I would feel uncomfortable because you don't know me.
Yeah, there are some of those who can't hang with the laws and rules of the organization and that is their choice. Many feel that it is too strict. Oh well. Again, their choice.
But Jehovah's witnesses do their best not to hurt anyone, they do not go to war and kill, they do not cheat, lie or steal. Those that do are disfellowshipped.
They go out to encourage people to read the Bible, spend countless hours teaching ones the Bible on their own time and at their own expense. No one is charged a price for this. Many go to other countries on their own expense to spend years teaching. Many learn another language in their own country so they can help with those who speak another language...all at their own expense.
Yes, some things have changed, the organization has progressed because of the times. But there are alot of things that has not such as the stance on moral cleanness, neutrality, and getting involved with the things in this system of things.

So if I do not respond after this, its because I will probably find this thread useless to me. If it was for the purpose of someone truly interested in learning about Jehovah's Witnesses, then I'd say email me privately, but if its for the purpose of you bashing the organization, then I am done.

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Old 04-28-2008, 05:49 PM
 
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Shianne,

Thank you so much for responding, open discussion is always a good thing. I was initially just put off a bit that you accused me of lying without giving any examples, so thanks for clarifying.

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Originally Posted by Shianne View Post
Quote:
Will you be able to have privledges in the congregation? Not likely.
For having friends outside the congregration. NO this is false.
I think this depends on circumstances, perhaps I should not have spoken in absolutes. You are right that many JW's probably have friends outside the religion and still have privledges within the religion. However, I am right in that having "worldy" friends can keep you from things like being approved for baptism (think teenagers who hang out with worldy friends often), or keep you from being approved as a pioneer or as a ministerial servant. If it is known that a JW has "worldy" friends that they often hang out with, they will probably not be approved for these things. I guess that is not an absolute, but it sure does happen, and I am surprised you would say that it doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shianne View Post
Quote:
Can they read a "wordly" book that aids them in bible study? No, absolutely not.
This is false. But then again I would have to know an example of a "worldly" book. I have looked up other books to clarify a point or to get the whole meaning of a context. So have elders that I know.
Well, when I was a JW, I certainly could not check out, say, a Catholic bible study aid and study the book along with bible. That is not only frowned upon, but if a JW was discovered doing this, it could likely result in a meeting with the elders to readjust the JW's thinking. Reading books that challenge JW theology is a big no no. If this has changed I would need to see some info to show that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shianne View Post
Quote:
You mean; what you can wear, how you can have sex with your marriage mate, what movies and shows you can watch, how much schooling you can have, what kind of car you can drive, what congregation you attend, how you use your vacation time, etc. Yeah, this stuff is still being influenced by JW leaders.
This is false. Yes JWs dress modestly, but the organization does not tell you what to wear on a daily basis. Does not tell you how to have sex with your mate. It is stated that as long as it is mutual and one is not doing something that is uncomfortable, bothers the others conscience or goes against what is written in the Bible, it is strictly between the married couple. Again what to watch is a conscience matter unless it goes against what is written in the Bible such as spiritism. What might offend one may not offend another. No one tells another what type of car to drive or how to use vacation time.
It is recommended that you attend the congregation that is closest to you, but it is not a requirement. I happen to drive all the way across town to go to my hall and they are happy to have us. My oldest goes to another town to attend a hall.
I sat through many many talks that told me what was appropriate for me to wear. I was specifically told that as a woman I had to wear a dress or a skirt to religious events. I was told I could not wear a skirt that went above the knees, or a skirt with a slit that went above the knees, or a shirt with a plunging neck line. I was strongly encouraged, but not forced, to dress this way. Of course JW's were not forced into a dress code or anything, but they set the standards of what was acceptable to wear or not wear, and this is printed in their literature. Also, men who are giving any talks (speeches) at the meeting (church) are required to have a suit on, which means a matching pair of pants and jacket, it is not recommended that they have mismatched jacket and pants. They are also required to have a tie and their jackets on. They can't give a talk, or say a prayer for the cong. without being dressed like this. Other men who do not have parts are also strongly encouraged to dress like this. Not forced or anything, but this is what they are told to wear. Outside of religious events, you can wear whatever you want, as long as it is modest of course. However, if you are at a convention, you are supposed to stay dressed up even after the sessions when you are out walking around town.

About sex, it was printed that oral and anal sex are not appropriate even within marriage in the literature. This used to be a disfellowshipable "sin" if, say, you had oral sex with your marriage mate. They did eventually make it so it was not a disfellowshipable sin, however, they never retracted this information as far as I know. They never said it was okay to have oral or anal sex within marriage, so, if they have changed this please provide us with that info. Thanks.

What you can watch on TV or movies, or what music you can listen to is certainly stated over and over again in JW literature. You know that soap operas are off limits, rated R movies are a no no, and rap and heavy metal music are "bad". If you do any of these things you will not be approved for privledges, or to pioneer.

The type of car your drive and vacation time were probably a bit overboard on my part. Of course everyone knows that a "good" witness would never buy a 2 door car because that is not a good service car. If you do buy a 2 door car, you do get a whole lot of harassment about it, I can personally testify to that. And vacation time, you do have to use some of it for the Friday session of the Convention each year, and it is encouraged that you use some for service a few days each year. Not a big deal though, so if you think these things are over board, I concede.

About attending the congregation that you are in the territory of, yeah, no one is going to force you, but it is highly recommended that you do so. Did I somehow give the impression that I thought JW's were forced into these things? Because that was not what I meant, I simply meant that this is what is expected of good JW's, it is the status quo, and to go against it can get you into some sticky situations.

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Originally Posted by Shianne View Post
But it is one of the things that makes for useless convo. You are set in believing the evilness behind the organization ant that is your right. Don't assume that I would feel uncomfortable because you don't know me.
Yeah, there are some of those who can't hang with the laws and rules of the organization and that is their choice. Many feel that it is too strict. Oh well. Again, their choice.
I know you weren't talking to me here, but I just want to make perfectly clear that I did not leave the JW religion because of any "rules" or guidelines or recommendations that I had to follow. When I believed in JW theology, those guidelines were no big deal at all, I wanted to do them. It wasn't as if I couldn't hack being a JW or was tempted by what the world had to offer. I simply found out that much of the JW teachings could not stand up under scrutiny, and that what was proclaimed to be "true", in my opinion, was not. That is the one and only reason I left. Just wanted to make that clear.

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Originally Posted by Shianne View Post
But Jehovah's witnesses do their best not to hurt anyone, they do not go to war and kill, they do not cheat, lie or steal. Those that do are disfellowshipped.
Many many christians, pagans, and atheists live under these same exact standards.

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Originally Posted by Shianne View Post
So if I do not respond after this, its because I will probably find this thread useless to me. If it was for the purpose of someone truly interested in learning about Jehovah's Witnesses, then I'd say email me privately, but if its for the purpose of you bashing the organization, then I am done.
No one is bashing anyone here, we are just discussing what the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society teaches, encourages, or advises their followers to do. I wonder why you are taking this so personally? No one has been evil or angry or made up any lies on this thread. No one has called anyone any names or been rude. The UA hasn't even been violated! I would think that if you truly think that something is being misrepresented that you would want to clear that up. I believe that everyone participating in this thread has been very reasonable throughout the entire discussion. I am surprised that you feel that your religion is being "bashed" and I am perplexed that you would choose to abandon this thread instead of defending it? However, that is your choice, and your perception. Thank you for giving us your views of things so that we could further this discussion.
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Old 04-28-2008, 07:28 PM
 
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Not quite. You wont get disfellowhiped (excommunicated) for seeing one. You will however be removed as a pioneer, servant, or from having any privileges if anyone knows that you watch them, in other words you wont be in good standing. It is highly recommended that you don't watch them and is not presented as a conscience issue.
I think it depends on the movie. I specifically remember elders taking their teenaged kids to see Schindler's List. Though its R rated, is not in the same category is seeing something like Goodfellas. I also known JW who stayed away from it because of the rating. My mother didn’t care if I saw it or not (I saw it in a school field trip).

We went to the Holocaust Museum and frankly its pretty much on the same level graphically as the movie and many JW go there. Plus, there are many disturbing/graphic photos from WWII and the Holocaust in some of the publications (at least some of the older ones – not sure now).

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Originally Posted by jennica View Post
Shianne,

I sat through many many talks that told me what was appropriate for me to wear. I was specifically told that as a woman I had to wear a dress or a skirt to religious events. I was told I could not wear a skirt that went above the knees, or a skirt with a slit that went above the knees, or a shirt with a plunging neck line. I was strongly encouraged, but not forced, to dress this way. Of course JW's were not forced into a dress code or anything, but they set the standards of what was acceptable to wear or not wear, and this is printed in their literature. Also, men who are giving any talks (speeches) at the meeting (church) are required to have a suit on, which means a matching pair of pants and jacket, it is not recommended that they have mismatched jacket and pants. They are also required to have a tie and their jackets on. They can't give a talk, or say a prayer for the cong. without being dressed like this. Other men who do not have parts are also strongly encouraged to dress like this. Not forced or anything, but this is what they are told to wear. Outside of religious events, you can wear whatever you want, as long as it is modest of course. However, if you are at a convention, you are supposed to stay dressed up even after the sessions when you are out walking around town.
Also, depending on the congregation, some of the "brothers" may be a bit more stricter than in other congregations. I grew up in a congregation that had a lot of older brothers, many of them from the south and very traditional (thought this was California). One southern born, older, African American CS even said on the platform that sisters shouldn’t wear red lipstick – only brown . Most of the people snickered at him behind his back, but he was dead serious.

About the dress codes, IMO they did strongly advise the women like Jennica stated (skirt length, necklines, etc) and suites and ties for the men. They didn’t just stop at what to wear at the KH though. In our area the young men were advised against wearing baggy and saggy pants/jeans outside the KH setting. This was the ’90 where that was common. So though we were required to dress like Pilgrims (and we had a lot of Fashionista women in the congregation) but there were some guidelines.

Quote:
About sex, it was printed that oral and anal sex are not appropriate even within marriage in the literature. This used to be a disfellowshipable "sin" if, say, you had oral sex with your marriage mate. They did eventually make it so it was not a disfellowshipable sin, however, they never retracted this information as far as I know. They never said it was okay to have oral or anal sex within marriage, so, if they have changed this please provide us with that info. Thanks.
I specifically remember anal and oral sex being prohibited as well - at least coming from the platform.
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