LDS Papas and Mamas #48 - Page 9 - Mothering Forums
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#241 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 09:46 PM
 
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Ok, between the posts here and the pm's I've received, I think that when any of us feels uncomfortable with a topic we should be able to ask that it be taken off the thread to either pm's or the Religious Studies forum.

I am apparently not the only one who feels like they need to leave the thread periodically because of deteriorating conversations. I just happen to be the loudest about it.

So, for myself and those who have pm'd me, I am asking one more time that when we feel the need to go someplace uncomfortable or potentially divisive, we take it elsewhere when someone asks.
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#242 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 09:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
*sigh* there are rules in place that say religious originations can not have political commentary. dare i say there is a line? that was where the church crossed it and what the GA's were faced with. a while back a church was sued and their religious tax exemption brought into question because they took an anti-Iraq war stance. they too crossed that line. there is a line between church and state. when religious organizations (yes, even our own) choose to cross that line it is a breech. i'm not understanding what the big mystery is here. these laws are in place for a reason. we can't play with it. in doing so we put our own church in danger.
I don't believe you can put the church in danger. Man is not in control-- God is. Sure, mankind has free agency, but God created the rules of the game we're playing. It's his universe.

The church will do what God pleases, irregardless of what mankind says we should do. Normally, we do what the government says we should do, because normally, that's the right thing to do. The exception is when they tell us to do something wrong or contrary to God's will.

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i don't like this "either you sustain the Prophet or you don't" crap because it is too vague.
Okay, that seemed disrespectful to me.

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but give me a break. because someone points out the legal obligation of the church they aren't sustaining the Prophet? and they aren't proud of their religion? and they don't believe? no one has called into question the Prophets of the Lord. the discussion here was the actions of the church (which is placed here in this WORLD) and things said by the Prophets not directed by God. last time i check following the laws of the land was a big deal to us....
Okay, I am not calling into question your faith or testimony. However, I do not believe that the church has any legal obligation, except to the true King, (God) and as far as the laws of the land, I addressed that above-- we obey them except where they are contrary to God's directives as stated or directed by church leaders.

Something I have been thinking about lately is how in the Book of Mormon, there was a "separation of church and state" except that for them, there WAS a state-mandated morality. (I am talking about in their golden years, the more righteous times.) Morality acording to the TRUE church's definition of morality was the law, but there was freedom of religion for all. People could follow whatever religion they wanted to, as long as they followed the laws of the land which were set according to the church. I mean, if you think about it, laws have to be set according to SOMEone's morality code. There was also some censorship of speech, IIRC, because people were not allowed to speak lies against the church. Anyway, just something interesting that I was thinking about that puts this in a different light, perhaps. I don't know if that model is the most ideal model, maybe it is, maybe not, but it certainly was a good model for those people in those times, and it can't be a bad way to do things.

♥ blogger astrologer mom to three cool kiddos, and trying to figure out this divorce thing-- Blossom and Glow ♥

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#243 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 09:49 PM
 
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Woops, cross-posted, point taken.

♥ blogger astrologer mom to three cool kiddos, and trying to figure out this divorce thing-- Blossom and Glow ♥

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#244 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 09:56 PM
 
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I am getting a cocobolo stick, which is similar to the ones you liked! Just in case you decide to buy, that price is for 1 stick, but you only need one anyway. Unless of course your 5-year old decides to use your hairstick as a stick pulling stick, in which case you need more than one
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#245 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 09:58 PM
 
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On jewelry - we are selling our rings on purpose for conscientious reasons. When NCD's student loan comes in, we're going to buy hand made wooden rings. The one I've picked out looks braided. It is quite lovely.

If NCD bought me expensive jewelry I'd smack him for wasting money.

A diamond is only worth something because someone said so, and jewelers mark up the price over 1000% their cost (which is why no one can ever get a decent selling price on their rings).

I do actually have some jewelry but it isn't expensive and is not very important to me.

And we both ALWAYS laugh at jewelry commercials.
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#246 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 10:00 PM
 
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I guess you're already gone, but in case you're not. . .

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Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
dare i say there is a line? that was where the church crossed it and what the GA's were faced with.
President Hinckley has not changed his stance nor retracted anything. This is something we are currently facing, not something in the past.

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the discussion here was the actions of the church (which is placed here in this WORLD) and things said by the Prophets not directed by God. last time i check following the laws of the land was a big deal to us....
This is where we diverge. I stand by my statement that everything we are discussing was said by the Prophet as a Prophet. You accuse others of not listening, but you didn't read my post very clearly if you misunderstood this part. I thought I had made this very clear. Of course, I could just be a really bad writer/communicator, which is entirely possible!!
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#247 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 10:10 PM
 
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People frequently say the propher or church weren't acting under inspiration when something happens they don't like.

OK. I'll stop now. Thank you for all the pm's of support. I'll gladly be the loudmouth any time.

Now lets move on so the people who bowe out of the thread to avoid the controversy will come back and feel comfortable posting again.

Tomorrow starts the 12 days of Christmas count down and I have my wooden birthday ring from The Wooden Wagon set up with green candles and pictures of Christ.
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#248 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 10:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alisaterry View Post
Tomorrow starts the 12 days of Christmas count down and I have my wooden birthday ring from The Wooden Wagon set up with green candles and pictures of Christ.
Okay; what what what?

What is this? I am intrigued . . . .

♥ blogger astrologer mom to three cool kiddos, and trying to figure out this divorce thing-- Blossom and Glow ♥

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#249 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 10:14 PM
 
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As uncomfortable as I am right now.. I love being pregnant in December. It's been easier for Dominic to relate the story of the birth of Jesus Christ as we've been reading it for nightly scriptures. He was so excited when we talked about the baby in my tummy and him being excited and baby Jesus in Mary's tummy and how the whole world was excited for him because he would be born to save us from our sins.

It was just a cute spiritual moment I won't forget.


I love the christmas season!
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#250 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 10:18 PM
 
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these. I finally got one thanks to family and friends that I used for Connor's second birthday and during my labor for Deirdre's birth.

http://thewoodenwagon.com/c-birthday-ring.html
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#251 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 10:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alisaterry View Post
Now lets move on so the people who bowe out of the thread to avoid the controversy will come back and feel comfortable posting again.
OK.

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Tomorrow starts the 12 days of Christmas count down and I have my wooden birthday ring from The Wooden Wagon set up with green candles and pictures of Christ.
Last year we did the 12 days of Christmas for our neighbors. This year we're not. It is really fun to do it though!
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#252 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 10:40 PM
 
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these. I finally got one thanks to family and friends that I used for Connor's second birthday and during my labor for Deirdre's birth.

http://thewoodenwagon.com/c-birthday-ring.html
Aw, that's so sweet.

BTW, I LOVE the name Deirdre, and I don't think I ever said congratulations!!!! On her birth. So . . . congratulations!!!! I'm sorry it didn't go as planned.

♥ blogger astrologer mom to three cool kiddos, and trying to figure out this divorce thing-- Blossom and Glow ♥

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#253 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 10:45 PM
 
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BTW, I know I should get the heck off MDC tonight, but DH got snowed in at work and they are putting him up in a nearby hotel for the night. I'm lonely. So here I am. I will go to bed soon, though.

♥ blogger astrologer mom to three cool kiddos, and trying to figure out this divorce thing-- Blossom and Glow ♥

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#254 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 10:48 PM
 
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I left dinner on the stove too long while I was nursing DD so now NCD is out in the cold bringing back hamburgers. : And, we rented Harry POtter so we are FINALLY going to see the fifth movie.
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#255 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 11:42 PM
 
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mag, don't leave the thread, I thought you were handling things quite well, I was impressed. I don't know what happened emotionally between then and your last post, but we totally support you and your testimony building experiences.
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#256 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 11:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LionTigerBear View Post
Something I have been thinking about lately is how in the Book of Mormon, there was a "separation of church and state" except that for them, there WAS a state-mandated morality. (I am talking about in their golden years, the more righteous times.) Morality acording to the TRUE church's definition of morality was the law, but there was freedom of religion for all. People could follow whatever religion they wanted to, as long as they followed the laws of the land which were set according to the church. I mean, if you think about it, laws have to be set according to SOMEone's morality code. There was also some censorship of speech, IIRC, because people were not allowed to speak lies against the church. Anyway, just something interesting that I was thinking about that puts this in a different light, perhaps. I don't know if that model is the most ideal model, maybe it is, maybe not, but it certainly was a good model for those people in those times, and it can't be a bad way to do things.
Good idea to get back to the BoM...it is definately for us in our day.
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#257 of 678 Old 12-13-2007, 11:58 PM
 
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As uncomfortable as I am right now.. I love being pregnant in December. It's been easier for Dominic to relate the story of the birth of Jesus Christ as we've been reading it for nightly scriptures. He was so excited when we talked about the baby in my tummy and him being excited and baby Jesus in Mary's tummy and how the whole world was excited for him because he would be born to save us from our sins.

It was just a cute spiritual moment I won't forget.


I love the christmas season!
: I'm with you on that one... my girls seem to understand the whole baby Jesus thing a bit better (of course, they're also older this year). But, I'm still sick of being pregnant... I'm officially 38 weeks now, and really want labor to start any minute... probably not going to happen... but I can dream can't I?

The one thing I'm worried about right now, is that this baby won't come until Christmas Eve, and then I'll be stuck in the birth center (12 hour minimum stay), and completely miss Christmas morning.

Hopefully this baby will be more cooperative than that.

Emily
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#258 of 678 Old 12-14-2007, 12:20 AM
 
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I hate to be a killjoy for you pregnant mamas, but I absolutely hate having a December birthday. In fact, with Dh's grandma about to pass away, I have come to the conclusion that no one should be born, get married, or die at Christmas time. The birthdays and anniversaries get totally overshadowed by Christmas, and Christmas is never the same again when someone dies during the season. JMO.

Sorry you're alone LTB. I was worried the same hting would happen to my DH. But he made it home after nearly an hour and half, what usually take 30 minutes.
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#259 of 678 Old 12-14-2007, 12:24 AM
 
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Just dropping by.
We had our RS Christmas party last night. I rarely go those things. But my youngest is 2 and I need to get out more without the kids!
It was a lot more fun.
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#260 of 678 Old 12-14-2007, 12:48 AM
 
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I hate to be a killjoy for you pregnant mamas, but I absolutely hate having a December birthday. In fact, with Dh's grandma about to pass away, I have come to the conclusion that no one should be born, get married, or die at Christmas time. The birthdays and anniversaries get totally overshadowed by Christmas, and Christmas is never the same again when someone dies during the season. JMO.

Sorry you're alone LTB. I was worried the same hting would happen to my DH. But he made it home after nearly an hour and half, what usually take 30 minutes.
I didn't want a December baby... my sister has a December birthday and never liked it... my BIL's b-day is Dec 26th, and he doesn't really like it either...

Our plan was to try for a November baby, then skip the next month and try again for a January baby... apparently this baby had other plans. I'm not even sure how I conceived... my family was visiting at the time I should have ovulated, and there's no way DH and I DTD while my mom was sleeping on the couch in the next room...

*sigh* I just hope this baby doesn't choose Christmas as her birthday.

Emily
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#261 of 678 Old 12-14-2007, 02:16 AM
 
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Heavenly Father would not allow the church to go wrong.
I love that Heavenly Father has a plan for everything. Even when something "seems" to go wrong (like Joseph Smith losing the 116 pages of manuscript), there's a reason or a back-up plan. Sometimes I forget that even in my own life, Heavenly Father knows the beginning and the end. Even when I have my own choices to make, He knows what to do to prod me along towards the right end. I'm ever so grateful for that, especially during the last few weeks when I've been struggling with a runaway temper (that I *hope* is pregnancy induced only) and feeling very guilty about my mothering skills. But I also know that it's my life's mission to be a mother, and missions aren't always smooth. I'm trying to have faith that I can grow and make the changes I want to make. Anyway, a tangent from your original line of thought, but I definitely love the statement - Heavenly Father will not ever allow the church to go wrong. He is in control, and has all power.

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I really don't care about jewelry. I just want more counterspace or a shirt that doesn't make me look frumpy! What the heck good does jewelry do for me? I will wear my nice jewelry about twice a year (maybe) so why would I want or need more? And I would be LIVID if my DH spent even $500 on a piece of jewelry for me!
Right there with you! I purposefully picked out a small, simple solitaire ring for our wedding. And a simple gold band to go with it. I wear no other jewelry at all, except for an occasional funky pendant on a chain. The only jewelry I think I might potentially enjoy is a colorful wrap to go around my engagement ring. But every time I see one, the gems would dwarf my diamond, so I don't think it would be very practical, lol. And actually, I tend to take off my engagement ring at the end of my pregnancy (because of swelling) and the first few months of having a newborn, because I always end up scratching their poor little fragile skin with that silly diamond!

Bottom line - I really loathe the commercials that try to make spending a fortune on jewelry something a "good husband" should do for his wife. I, too, would feel absolutely infuriated if my DH ***EVER*** spent that much money on something so ridiculous. If you're going to go spend $2000+, at least buy something useful, like a vehicle!! Or new furniture!! Or a VACATION!! YES!!!!

BTW, if I ever do get to go on a nice long expensive vacation, I'm totally picking New Zealand. But these days, it's uncommon to even get out more than once a year. I just don't trust anyone around here with my kids, besides all the AP people in our playgroup, who I love, but would feel guilty about asking them to watch my children on top of their own, and at bedtime no less. I just need to get closer to some family!

Have our ward party coming up on Saturday. I can't believe Christmas is so soon! Alisa, you mentioned your wooden ring set thing...the other week, there was a sister in our ward at our craft day who was actually preparing her annual tradition of giving her DH a gift for each of the 12 days of christmas. None of us could believe that she had done it for every year of their marriage (a good 30 or so??), and always tried to keep up the creativity so he would get something new. What a neat tradition. And I love that you've got something out to do a little countdown, too. I don't feel put together enough to come up with a nice solid tradition like that. Our Christmas traditions are very limited - like always going out on a drive to see Christmas lights. Or attending the ward party. I could use more traditions.

SAHM to Melinda (Oct '03), Jacob (Aug '05),  Alex (Apr '08), and baby.gif Malcolm (Sept 29, '11)

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#262 of 678 Old 12-14-2007, 02:20 AM
 
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Harry Potter was good. So was my Baconator hamburger from Wendy's.
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#263 of 678 Old 12-14-2007, 02:24 AM
 
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Harry Potter was good. So was my Baconator hamburger from Wendy's.
I've had nights like that. Tonight, I was running too many errands and got home way late, so we had bacon, eggs, tortillas and cheese. Breakfast burritos, yum! :

Violin teaching, doula-ing Mom to Abby, (8) Ashlynn, (6) : and Max (11/13/08) Diagnosed with Metopic Craniosynostosis. First surgery 5/1/09, Second surgery March 2010.
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#264 of 678 Old 12-14-2007, 03:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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On jewelry - we are selling our rings on purpose for conscientious reasons. When NCD's student loan comes in, we're going to buy hand made wooden rings. The one I've picked out looks braided. It is quite lovely.

If NCD bought me expensive jewelry I'd smack him for wasting money.
So, I have a diamond wedding ring because that's waht dh wanted to get me. I wanted a stone, yes, but would have chosen a sapphire or opal if it had been up to me... I told dh he is NEVER allowed to tell me what he spent on my ring, because I justdon't want to know. However, I do knwo he was smart enough to pick an earring diamond (rather than a 'ring' one) and they are not marked up nearly as much--becauise they are slightly inferior diamonds...looks good enough to me!
He also got me diamond earrings...just little studs. I just never take them out. It kinda freaks me out now and then when I realize that I'm wearing diamonds (plural) on a daily basis... Beccause I have always felt it was sortof a waste of money. But I also know that it has great sentemental value to dh, so I don't want to trade them in or anything.
And my wedding band is plain white gold--matches dh's ring. The matching thing was my sentemental request...

So how about those ads for "take all your jewelry and gold and get cash for it"?!?! I was like "oh, now what gold or jewelry was that?!" I mean, to most people really just have a pile of gemstones and gold sitting around in their dresser drawer?! That's appallign to me.


I dont' yell at the pharmasudical ads, but I do listen to the 'potential side effects' list... like the RLS one that has the side effects of "may cause strong gambling urges" (I kid you not!). DH and I also have a good chuckle at the warnings on the ED drugs that say "if you have an erection lasting more than four hours, you should talk to your doctor"...um, yeah. Duh!

~Jenni, rural frugal Alaskan, eternally married to Dragon
loving my wild things DS Wolf (12), 3 angels, DS Bear (6) & DS Eagle (3)
 

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#265 of 678 Old 12-14-2007, 03:57 AM
 
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I would be furious with my dh too if he ever spent that much on any piece of jewelry. My wedding ring was picked out (by me) of the $45 bin at a jewelry store going out of business. It was teeny. Then my dad gave me my grandma's wedding ring. I couldn't not wear it, but it is big by my standards. I had them joined together--they matched. Imagine that. I must have inherited my taste in jewelry from her. I loved my grandma.
Anyway, the jewelry discussion reminded me of an ad I heard on the radio from some used car dealership. The narrator/announcer/salesman/whatever actually said that if your car is paid off, you need a new car. Yup. I was like Then the ad went on and on about how everyone has a car loan and you just aren't cool if you don't. And we wonder why debt is a mounting problem.

Good news in the family friendly department. Due to pressure from employees with families, dh's manager is hosting a family Christmas party at his house. This will be the first thing I have been invited to in over 3 years, and the first thing kids have been invited to in, ummm, maybe like 5 years? I just hope we're all done being sick. I definitely want to go and show support for this!
And dh said he would start looking for a new job in January as soon as he gets back from Asia. :bounce He also said that he would ask for a transfer back to his old position--maybe. He was so much happier there. It would be lovely to have a husband who is not stressed and grumpy more often than not.
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#266 of 678 Old 12-14-2007, 04:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh, Alisa, I would love to see pictures of those wooden rings. Sounds so cool!

We've joked that someday I will get dh a ring that looks like THE ONE RING...he wouldn't forget to put that back on after doing the dishes!

~Jenni, rural frugal Alaskan, eternally married to Dragon
loving my wild things DS Wolf (12), 3 angels, DS Bear (6) & DS Eagle (3)
 

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#267 of 678 Old 12-14-2007, 04:32 AM
 
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the RLS one that has the side effects of "may cause strong gambling urges" (I kid you not!).
That's one of my favorites too. When I was taking a first aid course, this was in California, one of the things we had to know how to treat were jellyfish stings. One of the symptoms of a jellyfish sting was ... death. For reals. Death a symptom. It still blows my mind.

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DH and I also have a good chuckle at the warnings on the ED drugs that say "if you have an erection lasting more than four hours, you should talk to your doctor"...um, yeah. Duh!
I like the SNL commercial they did spoofing the ED ads where they said "If you have an erection lasting more than four hours, call your friends and brag!"

Though the worst ones are the Enzyte ones (which is a ... um ... size ... uh ... enhancer). Those are the ones with "Bob." And the worst Enzyte one is the one where "Bigger Bob" is the office Santa and the ladies all start whispering and then pretty soon they're all in line to sit on Santa's lap. When did this become okay to air?

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#268 of 678 Old 12-14-2007, 05:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by brightonwoman View Post
Oh, Alisa, I would love to see pictures of those wooden rings. Sounds so cool!

We've joked that someday I will get dh a ring that looks like THE ONE RING...he wouldn't forget to put that back on after doing the dishes!
I posted a picture on my blog a while ago - hold on...

http://alisaterry.blogspot.com/2007/...-diamonds.html
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#269 of 678 Old 12-14-2007, 10:41 AM
 
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Bronwyn, I hope your dog is found soon!

About December babies -- I have a ds whose birthday is tomorrow. Dec 24th was his due date. At first, I hoped he would be born on Christmas, because my first is a Hallowe'en baby, and I thought it would be cool to have two holiday babies. But now I realize I'm glad that his birthday is before Christmas. It does get so busy this time of year -- we work at not being too busy, but still, it happens. This year, S's birthday falls on the same day as our ward Christmas party, our oldest's end-of-the-year piano recital, and the day my parents had originally planned to do their tree trimming (we go out with them to cut down the tree and then have a bit of a party and decorate it). They ended up changing the date, but it's still a busy day. I asked S if he wouldn't mind celebrating his birthday a day early, and he seemed to like that idea. We didn't celebrate D's birthday (the Hallowe'en baby) on the day of this year either, it ended up being spread over the next few days.

ITA with what has been said here about jewelry. Sometimes I feel unfeminine not wearing jewelry all the time, but then I think about the "costly apparel" thing. I have some jewelry that has sentimental value, but even then, I wear it rarely. When we were getting married, dh wanted to get me an engagement ring. I said no -- it would just snag on stuff and I would probably lose it and it would just be a waste of money. We went with matching plain gold bands from Sears.

Mom to DS(14), DS(12), DD(9), DS(6), DS (4), and DS(2)  

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#270 of 678 Old 12-14-2007, 11:22 AM
 
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I just want to chime in on wedding rings. I wear the setting that belonged to DH's grandma. His older brother took the huge diamond out of it and put it in this great big gaudy setting for his wife. She likes it. But then DH took the rest of it and put an emerald in it. Green is by far favorite color. :
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