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#331 of 628 Old 07-15-2008, 02:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by greenluv View Post
I just thought I'd drop in and say Hi to everyone! We (as in dh and myself) are new to LDS and have our baptisms coming up. I'm excited and a little surprised to learn that this is the place we belong

This has been an amazing process. I've been reading and revisiting this thread for the last several weeks and finally signed up at the natural LDS living site so hopefully I will see you there as well.
Welcome! Congratulations on your upcoming baptisms!


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Originally Posted by Contrariety View Post


Hey, mamas! I was hoping you could possibly help me out. I'm not LDS, but my sister is. She is due with her baby boy in Sept. and I am trying oh so very hard to educate her about circ. I was wondering if you mamas know of any scriptual references to circumcision in the BOM?? I think I remember reading a few, but It's beyond me how to even find them again.

If anyone could help me out, I'd be *so, so, so* appreciative!

PM me if you have any references that would help me out!

I have a really neat pamphlet that was put together by an LDS mama here. I am trying to find a link to it for you. I will be back once I do.

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#332 of 628 Old 07-15-2008, 03:10 PM
 
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Okay, their server isn't responding right now but If you PM me your email addy I can email it to you.

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#333 of 628 Old 07-15-2008, 08:56 PM
 
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Good grief. It was a funny post on that blog, but it's sad to me how many members get dragged into things that are opinions, not doctrine. My sister is a prime example. She believes strongly in following everythign to the letter...so when her student ward bishop (3 years ago) said that facebook was bad and to not join it, she took that as doctrine. She won't touch it, even though he's no longer her bishop. When her current bishop said that ward members should attend their own ward (that extras were ok for babyblessings etc, but don't skip your own ward if you're in town, because half the ward was missing every week) she took that as NO reason is acceptable to miss your own ward, so when our son wanted to be baptized in a lake (which required a hike) on his birthday (which was sunday) and the baptism time conflicted with part of their church time, they didn't come--and didn't feel bad or apologize, just said "well, we can't do it at that time cuz our bishop said..."
Um, yeah, we had some frustrations over them and their bishop.
When I was a kid, my parents had a bishop who said no beards. Then if someone insisted on having a beard, he wouldn't give them a calling OR a temple recommend (because obviously they weren't sustaining their local leader). How bad is that!
We actually have been having a thread about this teaching doctrine vs spouting opinion over on NaturalLDSLiving.
Wow!

I hope we find the perfect place for us someday; within walking distance to DH's work and all our social activities, but also enough land to have chickens and a huge garden.

:::
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#334 of 628 Old 07-15-2008, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow! Bryan would never be able to go to the temple. When he shaves his skin actually breaks out in a rash. Our old tudent ward used to pass out membership pamphlets that said men had to be clean shaven and wear only white shirts. They didn't give us one (Bryan was bearded and wearing green) so I wondered if perhaps they had stopped that before we moved to the area.

ETA: My dad spent the last half of his life as a counselor to various bishops and he was always bearded.

Congratulations on your upcoming baptisms, Greenluv! The feeling that soon all your sins and mistakes will be completely forgiven must feel so good!
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#335 of 628 Old 07-16-2008, 12:18 AM
 
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Wow! Bryan would never be able to go to the temple. When he shaves his skin actually breaks out in a rash.
...
ETA: My dad spent the last half of his life as a counselor to various bishops and he was always bearded.
Uh, most the pre-modern prophets and even half the modern prophets had beards. So I'm just not buying the 'unholy' idea.
Also, my DH looks better with a beard : (I love this new smilie!)

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#336 of 628 Old 07-16-2008, 03:18 AM
 
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Also, my DH looks better with a beard : (I love this new smilie!)
NCD looks years younger without a beard. I look like his Sugar Mama when we're out and he's beardless.

ETA - CRAP! I didn't realise he was signed in instead of me. Sorry, Bryan!!

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#337 of 628 Old 07-16-2008, 09:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by alisaterry View Post
Wow! Bryan would never be able to go to the temple. When he shaves his skin actually breaks out in a rash. Our old tudent ward used to pass out membership pamphlets that said men had to be clean shaven and wear only white shirts. They didn't give us one (Bryan was bearded and wearing green) so I wondered if perhaps they had stopped that before we moved to the area.

ETA: My dad spent the last half of his life as a counselor to various bishops and he was always bearded.

Congratulations on your upcoming baptisms, Greenluv! The feeling that soon all your sins and mistakes will be completely forgiven must feel so good!
One of my teachers at BYU was told by another teacher when he was interviewing that he would have to shave his beard if he wanted to get hired there He had been living in varous places around the world with a beard with no problem. One year for Halloween he was a BYU monk and he drove a harley!

:::
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#338 of 628 Old 07-17-2008, 02:58 AM
 
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NCD looks years younger without a beard. I look like his Sugar Mama when we're out and he's beardless.

ETA - CRAP! I didn't realise he was signed in instead of me. Sorry, Bryan!!
I thought NCD was referring to himself in the third person. . .until I got to the part about the Sugar Mama.

Glad you clarified.
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#339 of 628 Old 07-17-2008, 02:40 PM
 
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I thought NCD was referring to himself in the third person. . .until I got to the part about the Sugar Mama.

Glad you clarified.
Yes, we like to talk about ourself like that every so often. It puts things in perspective for us and makes us feel important.

It also reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld that just happened to air here last night where they meet a guy in the gym named Jimmy who keeps referring to himself in the third person ("Jimmy does this" and "Jimmy doesn't like that," etc.) so George starts to talk like that, which leads to the infamous line: "George is gettin' angry!"

(This really is NCD)

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#340 of 628 Old 07-17-2008, 07:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NewCrunchyDaddy View Post
NCD looks years younger without a beard. I look like his Sugar Mama when we're out and he's beardless.

ETA - CRAP! I didn't realise he was signed in instead of me. Sorry, Bryan!!

DH looks about 16 without his facial hair...well, ok, maybe not so much now that he's mostly grey,


What's "ETA"?

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#341 of 628 Old 07-17-2008, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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DH looks about 16 without his facial hair...well, ok, maybe not so much now that he's mostly grey,


What's "ETA"?
ETA = Edited To Add
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#342 of 628 Old 08-02-2008, 03:18 PM
 
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Is anyone still around here? I'm feeling the need to post someplace where the authority of the current prophet isn't challenged on a regular basis.
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#343 of 628 Old 08-02-2008, 04:01 PM
 
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I'm still around.

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#344 of 628 Old 08-02-2008, 05:33 PM
 
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I'm here! I keep subscribed and try to pop in when someone posts. :



I have a question for y'all.

I'm a convert and my parents don't support my decision to join the Church.

They spend their winters in Florida (they're retired now) and their summers at their cottage in Michigan. Our town is literally right on the route they take to go to their summer home.

This year they were going to visit us today. I only got a day's notice because they're just inconsiderate people. But I went ahead and cleaned our home, shopped for groceries, bathed our kids and got ready for their visit.

They just called to say they got a later start than they had planned this morning and it'll be too late to stop in and visit. They will not be coming to see us this year.

When my mother called yesterday I suggested that they join us at Church tomorrow, but she said they wouldn't be comfortable. I said okay, how about you guys just wait for us here, then, and we'll join you back at home after our meetings. They said no, they'd just visit the one night and then lock up after they left in the morning.

They are retired and can choose any day of the week to travel but they repeatedly choose to arrive at our house late on a Saturday evening knowing full well that we'll be attending Church on Sunday. I honestly believe they do that just so they won't visit us.

The pain is unbelievable! This is not the first time they've done this to me - it's been a pattern for well over six years now.

I know the scriptures teach us to turn the other cheek and forgive. How on earth (or in heaven) do you find the strength to do this when your own parents continually reject you and their grandchildren?

Does anyone have any scripture verses to share that might comfort me/us?
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#345 of 628 Old 08-02-2008, 08:07 PM
 
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that's a really hard one kari.
A couple of things occur to me...does your chapel have more than one ward in it? Meaning, if your meetings are in the morning, maybe on the weekend your folks are there could you hang out with them in the morning, and then go to the afternoon meeting? I understand your parents not wanting to come with you--there's a certain fear of "being indoctrinated" and all that, you know? I've visited other churches with friends and I always felt a little weird there. On the other hand, I wonder if perhaps they are trying to 'test' you in terms of whether you value them or your church more, you know? You got baptized against their wishes...now obviously you're an adult and don't need their approval, but on the other hand I can appreciate that it's hard for a parent to see their child do something that they see as being really bad. I would try to show them some extra love--no matter how bratty their behavior is--try to show them that you DO love them, and that you DO want them to be part of your kids' lives. Go out of your way--I appreciate that you already are doing so, but try to do it all the more.
In Doc&Cov (121 I think) it talks about authority, and how we are to "chasten betimes when moved upon by the spirit" but then "show forth afterwards an increase of love." We have repeatedly seen with our DS8 that if we punish he feels hurt and rebels, but if we make an effort to show love--even at those times when he is being the most unloveable--then his behavior improves. Furthermore, as we go through the motions of showing the love, we end up feeling the love ourselves..."you love those whom you serve" is so SO true! I know that's applying those principles to children, but I really think the same thing would work applied to parents (who are acting childish )

As for comfort, well, the one verse I can think of is Helaman 5:12. I can't remember it exactly, but essentially it says that so long as you are built on the Rock of Christ, then it doesn't matter what comes your way, because you'll be able to handle it.
When I've been feeling low, I often just flip open the Psalms and start reading...they have given comfort on numerous occasions.

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#346 of 628 Old 08-02-2008, 11:46 PM
 
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Is anyone still around here? I'm feeling the need to post someplace where the authority of the current prophet isn't challenged on a regular basis.
I think I know how you feel sometimes...
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#347 of 628 Old 08-03-2008, 12:46 AM
 
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Is anyone still around here? I'm feeling the need to post someplace where the authority of the current prophet isn't challenged on a regular basis.
I'm still here too and I definately understand!

Kari, I don't have any scriptures, but wanted to send you a hug. Family meaness is so hard to live with! Have you prayed for inspiration about what to do and gotten a blessing?

:::
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#348 of 628 Old 08-03-2008, 10:26 PM
 
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Is anyone still around here? I'm feeling the need to post someplace where the authority of the current prophet isn't challenged on a regular basis.
I know. I've been struggling over there too...in spite of having just been asked to be an admin. The thing is, I think that the creator's intention was for it to be supportive (thus creating a private place) but then the decision was made to be open to members who are, well struggling with (and therefore challenging) basic doctrines. I was not in favor of allowing that kind of talk in the first place, :and have been trying to utilize my new 'authority' to redirect threads that wander. The admins there are currently having a discussion about posting rules for the board...I'm trying to encourage the rules to be, shall we say, a little narrower than they were originally written. Well see what happens...there are enough fringe groups out there, I would really like to see that forum be a haven for serious members.


ANYWAY, yeah. Just needed to say that.

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#349 of 628 Old 08-03-2008, 10:37 PM
 
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I don't envy you guys at all. but I know you'll do your best to be fair as well. I'd have to do some major work on myself before I would be able to do that job without offending a whole lot of people.

Kari, I'm so sorry about your parents. It's difficult for me to imagine having that kind of relationship with parents, but I guess it gets to the point where you would have to treat them like you would other acquaintances and set boundaries. And of course pray for them to have their hearts softened to your chosen way of life.
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#350 of 628 Old 08-03-2008, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Is anyone still around here? I'm feeling the need to post someplace where the authority of the current prophet isn't challenged on a regular basis.
That's exactly why this thread was created!

We're here it's just that some of us see each other regularly in our play group so we often have our discussions in person.

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Originally Posted by KariM View Post


I know the scriptures teach us to turn the other cheek and forgive. How on earth (or in heaven) do you find the strength to do this when your own parents continually reject you and their grandchildren?

Does anyone have any scripture verses to share that might comfort me/us?
Forgiveness does not require that we continually subject ourselves to behavior that is hurtful. Forgiveness simply governs our feelings and behavior toward the person who is hurting is. It requires us to approach unpleasant relationships with gentleness, and to let go of grudges because they hurt us more than they hurt the other person.

That's why it can get confusing when, on one hand, we are taught to honor father and mother, but on the other hand we are talk that sometimes we must leave our father and mother behind to follow Christ. We can do both by making sure that we do our best to be kind to them while at the same time putting our devotion to the Gospel first.

Your parents probably consider your joining the Church as a violation of the first part - not honoring your parents. As AP parents, we know how often people take our choices as a direct attack on the choices they made differently! If you do want more time with them, you can tell them that it would mean a lot to you if they could come a day earlier and spend time with you and the children, and you can offer to plan some activities or a picnic. If your relationship is really strained, be thankful the visits aren't longer!

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I don't envy you guys at all. but I know you'll do your best to be fair as well. I'd have to do some major work on myself before I would be able to do that job without offending a whole lot of people.
We all know how I act as a moderator.....
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#351 of 628 Old 08-04-2008, 12:29 AM
 
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I've stayed out of most of those discussions because frankly I just don't want that negitivity in my life. I have enough problems as it is, I don't need to be looking for ways to bring myself down even more!

Mama to DD (5) DD (3) and DS (2 months)
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#352 of 628 Old 08-04-2008, 01:55 AM
 
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KariM:

"Honour thy father and mother" does not mean subject yourself to their repeated inconsiderate and passive-aggressive behavior.

The following might help...

How Do We Honor Parents Whose Conduct and Example At Times May Be Dishonorable?
David S. Ricks, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, Aug. 1995, 72–73
David S. Ricks, regional welfare agent and member of the Butler Twenty-seventh Ward, Salt Lake Butler West Stake.
Questions of general interest answered for guidance, not as official statements of Church policy

Only one of the Ten Commandments comes with a stated promise: “Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee” (Ex. 20:12).

According to the word’s definition, to honor means to treat with respect, to value, or to esteem highly. Yet children whose fathers or mothers have misguided, abused, or neglected them may find it difficult to honor their parents in that manner. Honoring, however, has meaning beyond the traditional definition. Understanding this additional meaning is essential to those who have lost respect for a parent or who may be torn between allegiance to parents and devotion to God.

In the Pearl of Great Price, we learn that the prophet Abraham faced an especially hard task of honoring his fathers, who, “having turned from their righteousness, and from the holy commandments which the Lord their God had given unto them, unto the worshiping of the gods of the heathen, utterly refused to hearken to [Abraham’s] voice” (Abr. 1:5).

Abraham’s fathers began sacrificing men, women, and children to heathen gods. Then they even “endeavored to take away [his] life by the hand of the priest of Elkenah” (Abr. 1:7). Despite their wickedness, Abraham “sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto [he] should be ordained to administer the same; having been [himself] a follower of righteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge” (Abr. 1:2). Through his diligence, Abraham qualified himself to become “a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers” (ibid.).

From Abraham’s story we see that those who choose to follow their Heavenly Father need to honor him above their earthly fathers and mothers.

Yet, in so doing they can bless the lives of their mortal parents. Abraham’s father, for example, repented, though he later returned to his idolatry (see Abr. 1:30; Abr. 2:5).

“One of the most difficult tests of all is when you have to choose between pleasing God or pleasing someone you love or respect—particularly a family member,” President Ezra Taft Benson said. “We should give God, the Father of our spirits, an exclusive preeminence in our lives. He has a prior parental claim on our eternal welfare ahead of all other things that may bind us here or hereafter. Should we not love Him for it and honor Him first?

“There are faithful members who joined the Church in spite of the objections of their mortal relatives. By putting God first, many later became the instruments to lead those loved ones into the kingdom of God” (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988, p. 350).

Nephi honored and respected his father despite Lehi’s murmuring against the Lord after Nephi broke his bow (see 1 Ne. 16:18–25). Upon making a new bow, Nephi showed deference to his father by asking him, “Whither shall I go to obtain food?

“And it came to pass that he [Lehi] did enquire of the Lord, for they had humbled themselves because of my words” (1 Ne. 16:23–24).

Following his conversion, King Lamoni in the Book of Mormon put God first by refusing to obey his father’s command that he kill Ammon. Lamoni also refused to abandon his mission to free Ammon’s brothers from prison (see Alma 20:14–15). As a result of missionary work by Ammon and his brothers, many Lamanites throughout the land of Nephi, including Lamoni’s father, rejected the unrighteous traditions of their fathers and repented of their sins. Because Lamoni had honored God and disobeyed his father’s unrighteous commands, many people were blessed, including his father.

Honoring our parents does not mean we must agree with parental errors or emulate unrighteous examples. Parents, like their children, make mistakes. But those mistakes should not prevent children from respecting their parents’ righteous counsel and from supporting their parents in noble endeavors. Children need to pray for and forgive their parents—despite their imperfections and, in some cases, their unrighteousness.

Also, we can honor parents, regardless of their mistakes, by acknowledging the good they have done, the good they do now, and by showing appreciation for the gift of life they have given to us. We honor them when we do what is right and when we set a good example for them. When honoring is difficult, we need to remember that we show honor to our earthly parents when we honor our Heavenly Father first.

As the Apostle Paul reminds us, “We have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?” (Heb. 12:9.)



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#353 of 628 Old 08-04-2008, 03:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I just lost a long and well thought-out post. Grrrrrrrr. Arrrrrgh.
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#354 of 628 Old 08-04-2008, 08:10 AM
 
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I haven't been posting anywhere, but I still have this thread in my subscriptions
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#355 of 628 Old 08-04-2008, 09:54 AM
 
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NewCrunchyDaddy, thanks for posting that article/talk!

As for what I eventually did was to call my parents back (they had left a message with DH that they would not be staying with us after all) and I was able to talk with my Dad.

They're planning to drive down and visit with us in a few weeks when we're not so busy (I took that as they'll visit mid-week rather than on the Sabbath).

I've been dealing with their inconsiderate self-focused actions for years and years - that's nothing new. What's new is that they now won't visit with us on Sundays because we observe the Sabbath. That's something I won't budge on and they'll just have to adjust to and I think that may have added just a slightly new bit of tension to the relationship.
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#356 of 628 Old 08-04-2008, 02:29 PM
 
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I've stayed out of most of those discussions because frankly I just don't want that negitivity in my life. I have enough problems as it is, I don't need to be looking for ways to bring myself down even more!
And that's maybe what I should have done. But like a moth to the flame, I saw controversy and dove right in. I'm trying to see a balance between standing as a witness at all times, and getting into futile arguments.

I'm glad people are still around here. and since you're here, I'll share the good news. Quinn is totally off oxygen now. He looks just like a regular baby now! I put him in the sling and went outside with the other kids because we're having a gorgeous day, and we didn't need to worry about the 40 lbs oxygen tank on wheels. Oh the things I never thought I was taking for granted.
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#357 of 628 Old 08-04-2008, 02:49 PM
 
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I am here. I have been staying out of the mess because I just cannot take it anymore.



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Originally Posted by quarteralien View Post

I'm glad people are still around here. and since you're here, I'll share the good news. Quinn is totally off oxygen now. He looks just like a regular baby now! I put him in the sling and went outside with the other kids because we're having a gorgeous day, and we didn't need to worry about the 40 lbs oxygen tank on wheels. Oh the things I never thought I was taking for granted.
Yay for Quinn! : I remember when my ds was finally able to go off of the oxygen and how life finally seemed so normal.

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#358 of 628 Old 08-04-2008, 03:02 PM
 
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I'm sort of here. I've been the same at Katie, still on subscription to this thread but not really posting anywhere else. I've been trying to be better at not being on the computer so much but I just seem to find new things to do. For instance, I had the whole job loss thing and I am not sure if I came and said that dh got a new job, the middle of May. Anyway, he likes it so much better and we are currently working on Dave Ramsey's plan. We're so close to getting all our debt paid off. Ok, next September, but we're excited to be doing something

I also decided to go check out the forum again and I've now gotten sucked into reading a lot of posts. I know, I'm a sucker for that. I haven't commented though but I have my dh read them with me and we comment together

I'm so glad Quinn is off oxygen. What a wonderful blessing to watch him get better and better!

Kari, I think you've already gotten some great advice about your parents. I know with my extended family, my mom and one sister are members and one sister and two brothers aren't. My aunt will sometimes try to throw it in our face but it was nice one family reunion my uncle was a bishop and he was able to do a sacrament meeting because my aunt was freaking out that we were going to go to church and how dare we. She actually stayed for our little sacrament meeting. It was kind of fun to see.
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#359 of 628 Old 08-04-2008, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And that's maybe what I should have done. But like a moth to the flame, I saw controversy and dove right in. I'm trying to see a balance between standing as a witness at all times, and getting into futile arguments.

I'm glad people are still around here. and since you're here, I'll share the good news. Quinn is totally off oxygen now. He looks just like a regular baby now! I put him in the sling and went outside with the other kids because we're having a gorgeous day, and we didn't need to worry about the 40 lbs oxygen tank on wheels. Oh the things I never thought I was taking for granted.
Thats why I decided not to join that forum at all. I know myself. I would not be kind.

Congratulations about Quinn!!! What a relief. I took a peak at Quinn's blog and saw that you are breastfeeding him now, too. That must be a great comfort for both of you.
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#360 of 628 Old 08-04-2008, 07:26 PM
 
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Thats why I decided not to join that forum at all. I know myself. I would not be kind.

Congratulations about Quinn!!! What a relief. I took a peak at Quinn's blog and saw that you are breastfeeding him now, too. That must be a great comfort for both of you.
Thanks! It really is, and it almost makes it feel like the 99 day nightmare in the NICU is getting to be a distant memory. Getting there, I don't know that it ever truly will be though. We are forever changed as a family because of it.
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