~May 2008 Pagan Mamas~ - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 02:55 PM
 
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Hi Neva and mamajody

My Grandmother is kinda snarky too. She also has a drinking problem, so that doesn't help. I agree that asking her about her life is a good way to make time pass... it's also very interesting, as she lived in London through the Blitz, was evacuated, etc. However, she also comes out with doozies from that. Like telling DF in all seriousness to smack me if I "got out of line."

Thanks to all who are helping me "find my faith" again. For those who find it easy to move to "mother", what ways do you celebrate the earth? The wheel?

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#122 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 03:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post
since I really don't "do" a lot of specific pagan "stuff". I try to work intention into everything I do, and stay present and aware to the energies of the moment, but I don't do a lot of the specific things you see in pagan 101 books anymore.

Sort of like one can say they are christian if they love/follow Christ... they don't have to belong to a specific religious group or do a specific set of things to use the label.
This is true of me too I believe. I ID'd as Wiccan for a bit, but grew and matured into an eclectic Paganism. Some of what I believe and do is represented in the Pagan lit, but I've really found that a lot of it wasn't for me. Like I don't need constant specific rules for what I do, just a flexible format that I get to craft, ya know?

The Sabbats/Wheel are an important part of my life and practice.


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When I was growing up catholic my mom used to talk about "pointsetta-lily" catholics... people who came to church only on christmas (pointsettas) and easter (lilies). And dh was wondering what the pagan equivalent was since that's sort of how he sees himself.
I grew up in the (Methodist) church and there the "poinsetta-lily" folks were called "CEO's" as in "Christmas and Easter Only"

My agnostic Ds digs the food aspect of the sabbats. I wonder what that'd be called. LOL

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#123 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 03:09 PM
 
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Maiden/Mother/Crone - This whole process intrigues me especially if we get to the point of not being able to have children. Can you move into the mother phase without being an actual mother? At times I feel like I flow in and out of each one of them depending on what's going on in my life. I'm definitely in the maiden phase right now. I'm learning so much about myself right now and it's been pretty deep.
I was briefly a mother before I was a parent. Some never-parents are mothers, and some people never seem to leave that stage. Then again, some people are never there, they go from maiden to crone, or just start and stay crones. Some people slide fluidly between the three, and that's all good, too. There's a bit of all in everyone, i think.

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Just popping in to say hi. I've been feeling a bit spiritually numb. I'm beginning to wonder if I should even consider myself pagan anymore. I mean, I do celebrate (or at least acknowledge) the wheel of the year. I love the earth and feel connected to it/her. But, I'm not really into anything else anymore. I feel a vague spirituality but it's not connected with anything in particular. I don't believe in Gods/Goddesses (as entities). I don't do spells.

My mind is open to thinking that anything is possible but I just don't have any particular beliefs.

I'm definitely UU (unitarian universalist) but even that doesn't have any set beliefs. LOL.
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DoK- I think you can call yourself pagan if and for as long as you want to. For me, pagan (as a label) means living in harmony with nature/self rather than a specific set of rules/practices. Usually I call myself a kitchen witch though since I really don't "do" a lot of specific pagan "stuff". I try to work intention into everything I do, and stay present and aware to the energies of the moment, but I don't do a lot of the specific things you see in pagan 101 books anymore.

Sort of like one can say they are christian if they love/follow Christ... they don't have to belong to a specific religious group or do a specific set of things to use the label.

Though dh and I were talking about this the other day... he describes himself as a mystic christian but for the sake of family unity he celebrates the pagan holidays with us. When I was growing up catholic my mom used to talk about "pointsetta-lily" catholics... people who came to church only on christmas (pointsettas) and easter (lilies). And dh was wondering what the pagan equivalent was since that's sort of how he sees himself.
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I don't have any firm beliefs either. In fact I'm not very belief oriented at all. I don't get the concept of belief or faith. I'm much more results oriented. If it works IE meets my need at the time I'm good with it. I struggle with a label too, which is why I didn't consider myself pagan anymore at one time and now I don't feel like anything.
This is why I'm a Chaos Mage. I have very firm beliefs... they're just entirely subject to change. I've never fit perfectly into the Pagan box; In fact, the only thing I knew with any certainty was that I wasn't a Wiccan-- Wicca always struck me as too unbalanced (heavy emphasis on being "good"), and balance is important to me. I love the Wheel of the Year, and I've always been able to "feel" it inside me, but how to celebrate/recognize it has changed so, so much. I celebrated Beltaine old-school style, and that was fantastic this year... but who knows where I'll be next year, or what I'll want to do? It matters not in the slightest. Nothing is true, everything is permitted. It's good stuff!

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#124 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 03:10 PM
 
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[COLOR="DarkRed"] I grew up in the (Methodist) church and there the "poinsetta-lily" folks were called "CEO's" as in "Christmas and Easter Only"
I had a friend in college who called them "Chreasters."

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#125 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 03:23 PM
 
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This is why I'm a Chaos Mage. I have very firm beliefs... they're just entirely subject to change. I've never fit perfectly into the Pagan box; In fact, the only thing I knew with any certainty was that I wasn't a Wiccan-- Wicca always struck me as too unbalanced (heavy emphasis on being "good"), and balance is important to me. I love the Wheel of the Year, and I've always been able to "feel" it inside me, but how to celebrate/recognize it has changed so, so much. I celebrated Beltaine old-school style, and that was fantastic this year... but who knows where I'll be next year, or what I'll want to do? It matters not in the slightest. Nothing is true, everything is permitted. It's good stuff!
It's funny that you quoted my post because I was thinking about you as I wrote that and how the philosophy sounds similar. Although instead of nothing is true I'm more likely to say everything is true.

I like my rules at least my self imposed ones
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#126 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 03:32 PM
 
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(long time thread post dealy-- i started this waaay before posting...)

i second the journaling thread suggestion!

on the 80 year old crabby grandmas note-- mine sure was that way... in her case it was pain-related. i know mom is the same way. if she's suffering-- beware! it's like she's not even aware of it. very sad, very hard to be around.


pregnancy was a real life altering journey for me. partly because my whole world turned upside down and inside out almost the moment i got pregnant, leading ultimately to a total change of life path for dh and for me.... and partly because , i too was--to quote twinkle--"Very spiritual, but in an all in my own body way, as opposed to feeling connected to the rest of the world." in fact, i lost most of my connections, not only to my previous sense of self, but also to other women....

birth. ahh. also not an ideal experience for me. ultimately, my experince of it made me MUCH more spiritual than i'd ever been, and brought me back into the world (in a very different way than before pg, btw), but i struggled long and hard with it.

i definately had a delightful maiden phase. but looking back, i do think that a lot of that wasnt entirely "me." i enjoyed it, and found my way, but i think now that the maiden path is one that isnt on the same... energy wave... as my true spirit. motherhood is. very very very much so. it's my spiritual self, my physical self, and my most true self. in ways i never even envisioned possible. i am now, after all the wildness of the past three years (one of pregnancy, and two of recovering from birth)... more myself than i'd ever imagined... or, more myself than since i was my self a child. actually, i think sometimes my true spirit still is, and always has been, 7 years old...

as far as rituals... i never did any "real" rituals while i was pregnant. but i did make one up for myself over may day that really helped heal my brutal transition from maiden to mother (aka, my c-s). that was a beautiful thing. i do tend to be of the mind that in such rituals, as in all things, we do best when we find our own as it feels right. nothing i heard anyone else do ever seemed right to me. mine just came to me... at, as all things do, the right time for me.

anyhow. it's so nice to hear other's stories on this topic!

eta: along the lines of calling our beliefs something.... my beliefs are basically what i've always known in my body, my spirit... some of them come to the front and fade to the back as they are or are not needed, or as they are or are not pertinent... but i find for me it's more or less all about balance (libra here! ;-). and i feel most in balance when i keep myself in tune with the earth and her seasons. i tend to have some ancient celtic leanings in my heart--for blood and previous existences reasons-- but all of it is to me very fluid and alive, rather than static and written down. i read little beyond some online ideas for rituals and historic notes, and follow my inner voice when it comes to celebrations and such. that being said, i am very much in to stones of late. not sure what that indicates... i did always love collecting rocks! ;-) oh! and also-- i do find i love following the moon cycles.
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#127 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 03:46 PM
 
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oh-- AND-- thought i'd share that i did go on etsy and found some delightful rags! also some cute scrubbers shaped like flowers! too much fun.
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#128 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 03:48 PM
 
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but i find for me it's more or less all about balance (libra here! ;-). and i feel most in balance when i keep myself in tune with the earth and her seasons.
Me too.

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It's funny that you quoted my post because I was thinking about you as I wrote that and how the philosophy sounds similar. Although instead of nothing is true I'm more likely to say everything is true.

I like my rules at least my self imposed ones
That's just it-- Nothing is true, Everything is true, they mean exactly the same things. It makes me so happy.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#129 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 04:08 PM
 
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I feel like i have always had a connection with the mother, through mother nature. As a young teen, I instinctively took walks when I needed to connect with something bigger than me. I would, walk and walk and take in the energy. I never understood what I was doing, i just did what felt right. I have always wanted to be a mom, and would take on the "mothering" of cousins and friends kids.

The older I get, I swear, the less I truly believe, it seems more instinctual/spiritual. If anything, my beliefs encompass so many different aspects of spirituality.

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#130 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 04:14 PM
 
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The older I get, I swear, the less I truly believe, it seems more instinctual/spiritual. If anything, my beliefs encompass so many different aspects of spirituality.
Exactly how I feel!

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#131 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 04:16 PM
 
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DoK- yeah, isn't it scary when you "look back" and add up the years? I am sooooo avoiding any sort of "counting"!

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#132 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 04:30 PM
 
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I feel like i have always had a connection with the mother, through mother nature. As a young teen, I instinctively took walks when I needed to connect with something bigger than me. I would, walk and walk and take in the energy. I never understood what I was doing, i just did what felt right. I have always wanted to be a mom, and would take on the "mothering" of cousins and friends kids.

The older I get, I swear, the less I truly believe, it seems more instinctual/spiritual. If anything, my beliefs encompass so many different aspects of spirituality.
I could have written this verbatum, but would have to add hugging trees as a quick fix and feeling her "heartbeat" in the surf at the beach.

My family of 3 (plus pup) Indigo (Aimee), Rob (dp), Ryne (ds) & Phebe (dog), plus my BIL's family of 3.

 
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#133 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 04:56 PM
 
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Rachel, I was thinking about you yesterday, how you been?
Awe, Sage, thanks for thinking about me I'm doing ok. We're one month down and one month to go on our two month ttc break. It's be good and bad but I'm dealing well with it. I'm actually celebrating my period today, which is something I've never done before.

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i second the journaling thread suggestion!

on the 80 year old crabby grandmas note-- mine sure was that way... in her case it was pain-related. i know mom is the same way. if she's suffering-- beware! it's like she's not even aware of it. very sad, very hard to be around.
I never thought about her pain making her cranky. Thanks for this Aweynsayl! I'll keep that in mind when I talk to her next.

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The older I get, I swear, the less I truly believe, it seems more instinctual/spiritual. If anything, my beliefs encompass so many different aspects of spirituality.
That is beautifully put, brendon. Love it and couldn't agree more!

-Rachel

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#134 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 07:25 PM
 
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Ok, there is too much to read! I will have to come back and catch up. LOL

I am having a sad moment... my dd after being homeschooled for 7 years wants to start school in the fall. I can not believe how sad this is making me. I am also a bit pissed (I am not letting her know because I know it was hard for her to bring this up to us and all... but i am!) I know she is ready for this new adventure but I am not! She has tried school a few years ago but wasn't ready and now... she is. I can feel it. I keep trying to find things that will change her mind (without it being all odvious). damn. I will miss her so much. Why does school have to be 7 hours long... 5 days a week! YUCK!

H

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#135 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 08:34 PM
 
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mamaofthree- *hugs*

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#136 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 08:59 PM
 
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Thanks. I feel like such a dork. I keep waiting for her to say JUST KIDDING. But she isn't. We did find a nice school we are going to get her enrolled in for the fall... I do have all summer to make school something she would rather wait for. LOL Probably won't work though.

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#137 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 09:16 PM
 
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My nana is like this, she is also kind of vindictive, actually at the moment none of the family can stand to d=be around her because of the things she says.
My dh's nan is a bit snarky as well.. comments like 'oh i'm glad he'st he last one' when my youngest was born, constantly brings up my older sons whom I'm physically separated from and she knows it hurts me, things like that. She was always a *little* like that, but usually she tempered it with a bit of kindness... then Pa died a few years ago and out the window that went.. she just says whatever she thinks now and doesn't even appear to notice It makes me sad because we used to see her often, more than weekly at times, now we go a couple of months sometimes because I tell dh I'm gonna go off at his sweet little old nana and I really don't *want* to because I really don't think it's *all* her fault (she seems to be 'slipping' with memory etc as well)

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I had so much I was going to share, and now its gone. Ugh.. I'll be back later.. has anyone seen Legends of the Fall? I'm considering wearing a whiteboard around my neck just so I can jot down my thoughts before they slip away..
maybe you could get a lovely beaded chain to hang it on? hehehehe
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(long time thread post dealy-- i started this waaay before posting...)

i second the journaling thread suggestion!
subbed to that... I think it would be helpful for me, but never done it before

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i definately had a delightful maiden phase.
I married & had my first child at a very young age (17) so I really am feeling the loss of having ever really been 'maiden'. I think I would have had so much more confidence in myself had I had those years to find my own way instead of having to make the way before me work I always have the outward appearance of having it all together, I smile & laugh and nobody suspects that it just isn't so. I doubt almost everything I do.

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I am having a sad moment... my dd after being homeschooled for 7 years wants to start school in the fall. I can not believe how sad this is making me.


Now, my apologies as I got side tracked with the journaling thread and accidentally deselected a few posts I was going to reply to : and I'm just not up for slogging through the last couple of pages to find them again right now

I'm a bit 'absent' lately, from the board anyway.. for some reason I'm feeling very much stuck in my own head. Not sure what it is that I am muddling through, but there has to be something?

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#138 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 09:18 PM
 
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ohh, where is she going to go? i wish i could go to my old school here! i give it a lot of credit for my pagan leanings as a child... even though it was started by nuns! ha! very crunchy nuns, that is. farm, animals, garden, sigh. :
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#139 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 09:23 PM
 
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hey cari. hugs, momma!!! i replied to you in the journaling thread. i really find journaling and (gee, suprise!) tapping help me when i'm feeling heady. also withdrawing into my own little mystical world of books and music. i do have to say that tapping (oops, not intended that way!) into each phase of the cycle helps me reconnet with each phase... so if i'm mourning my maiden phase, i can heal that during my cycle... if that makes sense, and ds is about to shut my computer down... oops! ok, hugs!!!!
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#140 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 09:24 PM
 
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wombatclay, i wonder if you realize how utterly talented as a writer you are? you really should write articles. or something. it's been lovely reading your thoughts over the last 5 pages or so

i totally agree about the spirituality maturing as we do. i identify Wiccan, and i don't think it's unbalanced at all; quite the contrary (i think "Wiccan" as a whole tries to come off *too* balanced, if anything). but i'm very open and fluid in my beliefs. i am fascinated with Christianity but no way can i be Christian. it would be lovely-- so easy, as they have a book of rules i am also fascinated with just about any religion. i am always asking questions of my friends of different religions.
for me, mostly, i guess i would say green witch, kitchen witch, i've heard the term hedge witch and think that may also apply, wiccan, garden-variety witch, whatever...i like the author phyllis curott best; she doesn't write wicca 101 books but goes one better. i LOVE her. she SO makes sense. i'm all about practicality and efficiency, even though i'm not that good in practice, i LOVE it in theory, and phyllis just makes sense.

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#141 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 09:34 PM
 
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aweynsayl- I took a look at the school. The beliefs are very similar to the ones we are developing. (woohoo, pagan/earthy, eclectic school!)

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#142 of 567 Old 05-07-2008, 11:28 PM
 
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i identify Wiccan, and i don't think it's unbalanced at all; quite the contrary (i think "Wiccan" as a whole tries to come off *too* balanced, if anything).
Really? See, I find Wicca to be very heavily focused on doing "good;" Most of the Wiccan resources I've come across even shy away from neutrality. It always felt kind of slanted to me.

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#143 of 567 Old 05-08-2008, 12:24 AM
 
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For some, motherhood was/is the focus of their lives and for others it's not. Some came to motherhood intentionally and others woke up one day to find themselves "mom". l
I only quoted this sentence, but truly, Clay, that post itself kicked a$$. And I don't know if many of you will be able to relate to this, but I know for me, the motherhood transition was such a welcome one as an insecure feminist in a sickly patriarchal and youth-obsessed culture.

In simple terms, I was never very good at looking or acting like a doll, and as a maiden I remember daily feeling the pangs of this "failure." As a mother, success seemed so much simpler; have a baby=> mission accomplished! As liberated and independent as I considered myself, I was not immune to feeling the pressure to conform--to be thin, smiley, snappy, and (ironically) confident. I just felt so much more susceptible to the pressure as a maiden, and as a mother, I am much more likely to trust my own judgments, however marginal, and to tell people (figuratively, mostly) to shove it.

This was the biggest and best part of the shift for me. It is no longer about the circumference of my thighs or the whiteness of my teeth; it's about me as a strong and tested member of a family and a community.
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#144 of 567 Old 05-08-2008, 12:27 AM
 
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I've done that for years and years. I've been pagan for....eek....30 yrs! I've had many transformations during that time. Perhaps this is simply another transformation for me.
Yeah that!
I also feel like my spirituality has undergone a major transformation in the past 5 years or so.Part of it is that whole Maiden to Mother transformation, but part of it is how I feel about my own spiritual practices.
I definitely consider myself a pagan. I have for more than 15 years. I was raised a UU and found my pagan path through the church. While I don't believe in the physical entities described as gods and goddesses, I still use those images as a focus for my energy. Something like, my mind cannot comprehend something so infinite. Therefore I chop it into little pieces and make them look like I need them to look. I don't care for the trappings of elaborate ritual, or spell work and mystery. This is definitely a big step away from my teen/college years of, "I am witchy hear me roar!" I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I have matured in my practice and not just fallen of the witch wagon.

Mama to 4 darlings. A ('03), O and K ('06), A ('09), and wife to M since 2002.
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#145 of 567 Old 05-08-2008, 08:22 AM
 
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I'm the village Wise Woman. You know that woman who lives in a cottage just beyond civilization? The one who uses herbs for healing, etc? The one who is always out in nature. The one who can predict weather just look looking at the sky, smelling the air, and by the feel of the air.
Well, that's me.
I'd definitely be considered a witch hundreds of years ago.
My potions? Oh, they're just bath oils or tinctures.

So, that's the way that I'm pagan. Your regular tree hugger.
That's me.

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#146 of 567 Old 05-08-2008, 08:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by eilonwy View Post
Really? See, I find Wicca to be very heavily focused on doing "good;" Most of the Wiccan resources I've come across even shy away from neutrality. It always felt kind of slanted to me.
I see what both this and the pp mean. I find Wicca really acknowledges the negative without ever allowing it in, if that makes any sense. It's like "we're good, but evil is out there" (or maybe that's just me reading too much Silver Ravenwolf as a teen?) I identified as Wiccan for a long time, and still will in situations where it makes things easier (where someone has a basic idea of what Wicca is.) Mostly though, I am eclectic pagan, and really enjoy that. Anyway, not trying to be offensive, if some here identify as Wiccan, just giving my pov.

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#147 of 567 Old 05-08-2008, 10:16 AM
 
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I've never really identified as wiccan because it just didn't fit me. Right now, and it's ever chaning, I'm a Pantheist Pagan. I'm very comfortable with this title but I also have been dabbling in kitchen witchery as well.

-Rachel

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#148 of 567 Old 05-08-2008, 11:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CariOfOz View Post
I married & had my first child at a very young age (17) so I really am feeling the loss of having ever really been 'maiden'. I think I would have had so much more confidence in myself had I had those years to find my own way instead of having to make the way before me work I always have the outward appearance of having it all together, I smile & laugh and nobody suspects that it just isn't so. I doubt almost everything I do.
I am a young parent, too. I don't know your story, but I found my transition to parenthood really building my confidence - even if I had my first child in less than ideal circumstances. I had to really fight to become a parent - as soon as I told my parents, they started pressuring met to adopt out my baby. Adoption agencies called me, sending me stupid brochures that made parenthood sound impossible. (Can you afford a baby? Look at all the things that Babies R Us says you need for a new baby!) My mother would break down in stores crying about how ashamed she felt to be seen with me and talked about wanting to divorce my father because of how much she failed as a parent.

But I kept my baby. I lived with my parents while I worked a crappy fast food job and went to school while pregnant. After spending months planning my birth and researching parenting, I had an unplanned unassisted birth. After the baby was born, I continued classes online. My partner got a job that eventually led him into an apprenticeship program and we moved out of my parents' home.

Becoming a parent - and fighting for it - made me feel strong; that everything has worked out helps me know to move in the direction of greatest courage - that if I take that leap of faith, it will work (albeit maybe not how I expected).
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#149 of 567 Old 05-08-2008, 12:19 PM
 
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Jumping right in! didn't read everything yet...

Cari I went from taking care of my parents/sister to taking care of my baby just when I expected to take care of me and get time to myself. I'm just now giving myself the permission to learn and grow - 18 years later...
Sure, there's some areas I won't give myself permission to explore (won't get wild in the sexual arena - I'm happy with DH and won't compromise my relationship just for the sake of experiencing ) or explore differently but, in my mind, there is no fixed age to do things and surely not on building my self.

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#150 of 567 Old 05-08-2008, 12:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CariOfOz View Post
My dh's nan is a bit snarky as well.. comments like 'oh i'm glad he'st he last one' when my youngest was born, constantly brings up my older sons whom I'm physically separated from and she knows it hurts me, things like that. She was always a *little* like that, but usually she tempered it with a bit of kindness... then Pa died a few years ago and out the window that went.. she just says whatever she thinks now and doesn't even appear to notice It makes me sad because we used to see her often, more than weekly at times, now we go a couple of months sometimes because I tell dh I'm gonna go off at his sweet little old nana and I really don't *want* to because I really don't think it's *all* her fault (she seems to be 'slipping' with memory etc as well)
Memory loss can be a warning sign of depression, esp in eldery folks. The other big warning sign is personality changes. We noticed both with my dad, who was diagnosed with dementia with Lewy Bodies (a rare form of Parkinsons). I would see about getting her a neurological workup to rule out dementia or other diseases. If it's more depression related (I noticed you said her husband passes), then counseling and possibly medication would really help. HTH...and

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