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#91 of 675 Old 10-03-2008, 03:25 PM
 
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new age as appropriation of the pagan
Well, in my experience it isn't appropriation of "pagan" if you mean the modern or neo-pagan culture. But it often borders on or is outright appropriation of "pagan" if you mean non-christian religious practice.

For example, many things in a New Age shop seem to "borrow" from different native american traditions (sage smudging, sweat lodges, dream catchers, the use of sacred drum or chant rhythms, the "use" of sacred stories or beings, etc). Some of these things seem fairly minor, and many are things that seem to "fly below the radar" in the dominant culture, but there are many native groups that have stated that they find their use by non-natives offensive or at least in very bad taste (for example, a "new age" meditation cd that came out....oh...I guess more than 10 years ago, caused a big commotion here since it included "native chants" that should only be sung during very specific rituals by very specific people).

Anyway, I don't feel like everything "new age" is an appropriation. And I'm not saying that pagans don't appropriate or that paganism isn't a big mish mash of different traditions. But in some ways it feels like the new age takes the shiny bits and packages them without concern for where they come from because "we're all one spirit" while the pagan movement takes the shiny bits and tries to build something new using those parts? Hmmmm.... that's not exactly it though. Gah! Brain no work so good today!

I just got through the initial screening for dd2's diagnosis eval and it was three+ hours so I think my ability to talk has been shot!

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#92 of 675 Old 10-03-2008, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post
...in some ways it feels like the new age takes the shiny bits and packages them without concern for where they come...
that i tend to agree with (ital mine). like the website i mentioned. although, i do have to say, i know quite a few who are spectacularly well informed in regards to the various histories of their practices.

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...the pagan movement takes the shiny bits and tries to build something new using those parts? Hmmmm.... that's not exactly it though. Gah! Brain no work so good today!
i feel you on lack of brain activity. mercury? maybe there is more awareness, more intention? more about the ways of old wise ones, less about something new & shiney? (i had a thought about stones, and the propensity to find them "new agey"... so i went and looked up the history of stone lore, and wow, that was informative & fun! )

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... so I think my ability to talk has been shot!
wow. save this for posterity.
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#93 of 675 Old 10-03-2008, 06:22 PM
 
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Good afternoon!!

aweynsayl ~ Whoa. I had missed that. Thanks! I'll have to check out those links when I don't have small children crawling all over me. You're right, why should money come to me while I'm saying that I hate it? Geez. Why hadn't I thought about that?

I agree with wombat. New Age seems to be more "fluffy bunny" type of paganism. It's the shiny, attractive things without any of the depth. Of course that's just in general. I'm sure there's individuals that consider themselves 'new age' while they are a good definition of pagan and vice versa.

Aaaaaaaaand my mind went blank... Hi everyone. How is your Friday going?
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#94 of 675 Old 10-03-2008, 06:49 PM
 
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BellaLuna, perhaps it's the universe's way of saying steer clear of spanking types!!

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#95 of 675 Old 10-03-2008, 06:51 PM
 
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I will not admit where my mind went the first time I read that.

My family of 3 (plus pup) Indigo (Aimee), Rob (dp), Ryne (ds) & Phebe (dog), plus my BIL's family of 3.

 
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#96 of 675 Old 10-03-2008, 07:02 PM
 
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Must be Friday. Everyone seems to be freaking out.

I'm going to dig out my singing bowl and do a spiritual cleansing for my home (plus ds and I) tomorrow.

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#97 of 675 Old 10-03-2008, 07:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BellaLuna Rayne View Post
So I got this today on another board for being anti-spanking:



I have never been "spoken" to like that in my life. I cannot believe that humans behave like this.

I guess this is the universe's way of trying to give me a lesson about something. Not sure what yet.
"Yourselfs"? Sorry had to pick that out. I hate bashers that don't know how to spell...

Ignore the stupid people. I should get that as a tattoo...
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#98 of 675 Old 10-03-2008, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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aweynsayl ~ Whoa. I had missed that. ...You're right, why should money come to me while I'm saying that I hate it? Geez. Why hadn't I thought about that?

....the shiny, attractive things without any of the depth.
i think it's fairly common *not* to think of it, lol! but it helped me so much, i just had to share.

love that line! seems to me, much of modern life writ large could be summed up with that quote.....

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I guess this is the universe's way of trying to give me a lesson about something. Not sure what yet.
mmmm. not suprising to me, at all. people are freaky. hugs to you.

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I'm going to dig out my singing bowl and do a spiritual cleansing for my home (plus ds and I) tomorrow.
ohh, that sounds loverly! i love the cleansing power of sound.



ok. well, i'd thought i'd try to get to 2,000 posts before my birthday, but i'm giving up and putting the computer away for the weekend! "see" you all on the "other side" of 33..... :::
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#99 of 675 Old 10-03-2008, 07:33 PM
 
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My post got deleted, I finally violated the UA lol.

Anyway, on to good news! I had a phone interview with Washington Mutual today and I am being recommended for a face-to-face interview. I am not really ready to go back to work. I just need to get out of the house and if I can earn $11-12/hr working fulltime, why not? DH has already said that any money I make is mine and mine alone and we will continue to use his for bills and such.

I am horribly nervous and this is making my anxiety flair big time.

:~*Barbara*~ 25, DGF to an awesome man (25) and always a step-mom to A (8)
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#100 of 675 Old 10-03-2008, 08:05 PM
 
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Big hugs and congrats on the interview! Would a worry stone or talisman help? I used to make little pocket charms for interviews/new work settings (I was a temp in Boston for several years)... usually a stone anointed with mint or other "uplifting" or "calming" EO, or a small gold coin (also anointed with oil, I used an Irish coin DH gave me, but a Sakajawea dollar would work) that I could rub while waiting for the interview.

I've also taken tiny fridge magnets and cut them in half... I keep one half on my altar and one half I leave at the hopefull job site to "pull" the job my way. (I've done that when house shopping too).

Good luck and deep breathing!

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#101 of 675 Old 10-03-2008, 10:31 PM
 
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and she told me to call the cops the next time she leaves a visible mark and let it go from there.
i'm so sorry, jesslyn, that you are having to put up with this. i do have to say, you sound pretty strong in the face of it all!
however. you asked for advice and here's mine. DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT!!! write down every little thing she does. everything you can remember, plus new things. every time she's "nice but mean" and you can't put your finger on it, write them down too. with dates and times. in chronological order. well-- write them how you remember them, but file them in order.
just calling the police may not be enough, especially for one instance of a bruise; they (and she) probly would be like "so what?". but if you have, or can get, or remember, the case numbers or any documentation or witnesses of the original CPS interventions, even if they came to nothing, that would strengthen your case as well, along with your notes.
hon-- i'm no social worker, nor lawyer, but it sounds to me like you've got a clear-cut case of abuse going here. a *legal* case of abuse. child abuse, and now just abuse.
until you can get the "h-e-double toothpicks" out of there, stay strong, do a concave mirror spell (to reflect back off of you what she sends out), and WRITE IT ALL DOWN.

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This weekend is Austin's Pagan Pride Day and we won't be able to go. We don't have the extra money for parking, plus the gas it takes to get downtown and "free with suggested donation or canned food" cost (what the heck is that anyway?! Why couldn't they just say "bring money or food"?). Money sucks. I'm so disappointed but there's always next year.
it sounds important enough that you oughtta eat off the pantry shelves and suck it up, so you can go. go for it, mama! maybe you can carpool, or ride the bus. and all you prolly need is a coupla cans of food. it sounds fun!

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err that would be me (slowly raises hand)
ok-- i know you're a goth mama, batty, but several people have mentioned the goth look as synonymous with Paganism. what's up with that? most of the Pagans i know look like hippies.
*however*-- i was a goth chick once, way back in the day and i was just getting a taste of Wicca at the time. after i got sober, i realized the Goddess was smacking me upside the head for some time, but i just didn't get it
so-- if this is an ok topic for y'all-- (you goth mamas)-- what does goth mean to you? even if it's just "i like the look", or if there's lots deeper, i'd like to hear about it. and maybe i will chime in on what it was for me, or what i thought it meant for me way back then

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Please think good thoughts that this goes smoothly.. I'm so scared something will go to sh*t and we'll be in employment limbo
nope. YOU think good thoughts, too! don't bring it down by thinking negatively!

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New Age seems to be more "fluffy bunny" type of paganism. It's the shiny, attractive things without any of the depth.
that's it! that's what i was trying to think of. it's...shallow. i haven't met *any* "new age" sorts that are of any depth at all. it's all about looks, and talking cryptically, like "my dead aunt appeared to me last night while i was meditating in my yoga room" or whatever. like...right.

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My post got deleted, I finally violated the UA lol.
i was wondering what people were referring to! i was like...i didn't read anything about spanking! did i miss a page? when they delete posts, they oughtta ask the people who wrote them to edit the rest of the posts...nothing makes any sense after that to the people who didn't see the original post!

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#102 of 675 Old 10-03-2008, 11:30 PM
 
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Wow. Miss a couple of days and miss a lot!

All I'm saying now is TGIF... except I have a conference tomorrow to go to : (I'm psyching myself up) And it's all day long : I really do love conferences (really, not just psyching!) but all day..... on a saturday....

:::::::

DOK - you have to let me know the next time there's a sale. My kids (I"m a preschool teacher) are driving me batty with princess stuff. It's Cinderella, Snow White , etc and I HATE that (I know, I know, I have to live with it) but I'm hoping to provide them with some other interesting cool, princess books - and BFB has one! so, long story short, let me know!

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#103 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 12:25 AM
 
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My kids (I"m a preschool teacher) are driving me batty with princess stuff. It's Cinderella, Snow White , etc and I HATE that (I know, I know, I have to live with it) but I'm hoping to provide them with some other interesting cool, princess books - and BFB has one! so, long story short, let me know!
Have you heard of the book Cinder Edna? It's a twist on the Cinderella story. It's her hippie next door who falls in love with the prince's younger brother. It looks super cute! I've been meaning to get it from the library for my boys but I doubt they would even care since there's no volcanoes or space ships. Maybe your kids would enjoy it.
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#104 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 12:52 AM
 
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Oy, what a day. Erin was clingy, Gilli was falling and getting hurt, and thankfully Bella was my calm kid today.

I am putting on a conference tomorrow, waves to captivated life...I love doing and being at conferences, but yeah, they are exhausting!

I'm loaning out some of the stones I don't use on a regular basis. I know our energy transfers, so I charged them with positive, good intent, but they will eventually return to me. I asked that when they return that they cleanse them and then infuse their own positive thoughts/good intent....then I got to thinking... should I charge them again?

Well off to bed.

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#105 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 01:04 AM
 
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Furry Wan Kenobi : love that

Ohh, I also love your magnet method of attracting, I have got to try that one out. There is a piece of land that I have been wanting and it has been for sale for 3 years now at a price way above what I can afford. I feel like it is stuck half way to me. It is available and no one else seems interested but I do not seem to be able to bring it with in my reach $$ wise.

: to all the :

I agree with just about everyones comments so far about the pagan vs new age topic. Pagan is more personal, earthy, simple to me. New age seems more comercial and flashy.

: for all the annivesarys and future October weddings

: heres hoping everyones endevors goes well this month

Time for bed, I've got to go cuddle my squishy monster.

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#106 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 01:39 AM
 
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Something to enjoy over the weekend. Where is Matt? (Not sure if yall have seen this.)

I watch this fairly often. It always makes me smile and from time to time tear up. It's one shiny bright place in the world. For so many people from all over the world to join together to do a silly little dance is truly a message of hope. :
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#107 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 08:35 AM
 
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I'm loaning out some of the stones I don't use on a regular basis. I know our energy transfers, so I charged them with positive, good intent, but they will eventually return to me. I asked that when they return that they cleanse them and then infuse their own positive thoughts/good intent....then I got to thinking... should I charge them again?
I would if the person that borrowed them went through something really dark/depressing/negitive or even physical. A full moon water cleanse will purify and recharge stones.

Today is applesauce day. I picked up 3 bushels for $18 and hopefully will get all of them canned this weekend

good witch
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#108 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 10:26 AM
 
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DOK - you have to let me know the next time there's a sale. My kids (I"m a preschool teacher) are driving me batty with princess stuff. It's Cinderella, Snow White , etc and I HATE that (I know, I know, I have to live with it) but I'm hoping to provide them with some other interesting cool, princess books - and BFB has one! so, long story short, let me know!
There are Special Offers every month. Just click the link in my sig. Once there, click on See Barefoot's Complete Collection. Then, click on US Special Offers (on the left side). Hope that makes sense. I haven't had any caffeine yet.
For example, there's THIS one.


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#109 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 10:40 AM
 
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Sounds like everyone has neat festival stuff to go to : why do I have to live in the middle of the bible belt.

Around here new age seems to be more christians that want to dabble cause it's "neat". I'm sad to hear so many call it energy people instead of god/goddess people.... I'm an energy person.... never read a new age book.... don't buy things to practice, I'm nature oriented, constantly find things to add to my chest.... I feel pagan, but maybe to some of you I would be new age simply cause I'm an energy person....

DOK - hope you feel better soon and hope violin went well!

Captivated - aren't there slightly lightened up version of the original grimm and anderson stories.... not too gory but more realistic that you could get away with reading ? Or is that too much reality for preschool these days? I'm almost positive there were some kids books when I was growing up that were closer to the originals, but considered okay for kids.

GOING HALLOWEEN SHOPPING TODAY!!! I'm so excited. Every year we go look at all the halloween stuff at around 10 different stores w/ BIL and wife hardly ever buy anything, lol need $ for that. But its fun to look It usually results in a philisophical/religious discussion between them and DH/me which is always fun, keep hoping to get them to think outside the christian box.

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#110 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 10:55 AM
 
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most of the Pagans i know look like hippies.
Hippie chic here!

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I agree with just about everyones comments so far about the pagan vs new age topic. Pagan is more personal, earthy, simple to me. New age seems more comercial and flashy.
I agree with you..

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#111 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 10:56 AM
 
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Morning all.

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#112 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 11:07 AM
 
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OceansEve- big hugs! I don't think abyone would think you're "not pagan" just because you don't believe in gods/goddesses! Heck, there are gobs of pagan religions (modern and classic) that don't have anthropomorphized dieties! Pantheistic paths for example, or Animistic religions.

I think it's just really hard to explain in type, without immediate interactive feedback and body/facial expression what people mean by the "white light" energy of the New Age movement and the non-deist energy of certain pagan paths. And obviously there is a lot of overlap, especially since both groups use similar vocabulary. Actually, that's probably a big part of it... the vocab "sounds" the same even though there are very differen meanings behind the words.

And I know some very "back to the earth" new age folks around here... 100% not pagan but grounded and earthy and focused. And I know pagans who are fluffy and woowoo and dreamy and all pink pegasus power ranger. It's all good as long as you're happy and spreading that joy around.

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#113 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 11:14 AM
 
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OceansEve- big hugs! I don't think abyone would think you're "not pagan" just because you don't believe in gods/goddesses! Heck, there are gobs of pagan religions (modern and classic) that don't have anthropomorphized dieties! Pantheistic paths for example, or Animistic religions.

I think it's just really hard to explain in type, without immediate interactive feedback and body/facial expression what people mean by the "white light" energy of the New Age movement and the non-deist energy of certain pagan paths. And obviously there is a lot of overlap, especially since both groups use similar vocabulary. Actually, that's probably a big part of it... the vocab "sounds" the same even though there are very differen meanings behind the words.

And I know some very "back to the earth" new age folks around here... 100% not pagan but grounded and earthy and focused. And I know pagans who are fluffy and woowoo and dreamy and all pink pegasus power ranger. It's all good as long as you're happy and spreading that joy around.
Wow wombat, I think you have a great way with words. I agree with you. I think it's all about what you are putting out there. As long as it's positive, whatever feels right to you, that's what you should do.

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#114 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 11:34 AM
 
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DOK - hope you feel better soon and hope violin went well!
Thanks! I'm not sure how violin went. Quickly, that's for sure. tee hee.
The teacher has a very heavy accent and ds couldn't really understand her. Even I had trouble. I hope we get more used to her accent so that it doesn't become an issue.

I could tell ds was a little aggravated. The teacher was having him play one note and holding it for 4 seconds (a long, drawn out note). Over and over again. Ds kept saying "Ok, now let's play a song!"

She told him the names of the strings and was shocked that he got them right when she tested him later. (She doesn't have experience teaching a child with PDD-NOS). Ah well, she's in for many surprises.

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#115 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 11:59 AM
 
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ok-- i know you're a goth mama, batty, but several people have mentioned the goth look as synonymous with Paganism. what's up with that? most of the Pagans i know look like hippies.
*however*-- i was a goth chick once, way back in the day and i was just getting a taste of Wicca at the time. after i got sober, i realized the Goddess was smacking me upside the head for some time, but i just didn't get it
so-- if this is an ok topic for y'all-- (you goth mamas)-- what does goth mean to you? even if it's just "i like the look", or if there's lots deeper, i'd like to hear about it. and maybe i will chime in on what it was for me, or what i thought it meant for me way back then
to me there is a lot more to goth then just a look, although i o like the look very much, in fact i love it. To me it is about acknowledging the dark mysterious side of life and of ourselves. I have always been attracted to "things that humans were not meant to know" if there is a button out there with a big sign saying "do not touch" you will probably fin me standing next to it going "what? i didn't know that would happen.." as demons swirl out of another dimension . For me its not about evil, its like yin and yang, not good and bad, and the allure of the forbidden. Also i just really like bats.

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i was wondering what people were referring to! i was like...i didn't read anything about spanking! did i miss a page? when they delete posts, they oughtta ask the people who wrote them to edit the rest of the posts...nothing makes any sense after that to the people who didn't see the original post!
No kiding! i kept on going back and trying to find out what was happening, i wanted the juicy details darn it!

OceansEve- hugs, i am pretty sure that is not what we are saying at all! I work with energy myself. I think that it is one of those things that is hard to put into words. We participate in an expo awhile ago, and it was mainly newagers, they had a very different feel to them. And one of the stalls were selling rocks for $500 that you use to make "super water" it heals everything! it wasn't even an attractive rock, and they couldn't explain what exactly was special about this rock, people were buying it though. Now maybe this is a super rock, but to me all rocks are super rocks, it is all in your head. sorry i am rambling, and not really sure what my point is any more.

well i am off to watch buffy, an dream about waking up and finding spike tied up in my bath tub, why should they have all the fun? also i am trying to take a break from the internet, i am on way too much, so i will see you next week sometime, when i will no doubt have 100 million pages to read through oh and in case anyone is worried about my anxiety issues they are much better since i have been taking some herbal remedies.
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#116 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 12:22 PM
 
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And I know some very "back to the earth" new age folks around here... 100% not pagan but grounded and earthy and focused. And I know pagans who are fluffy and woowoo and dreamy and all pink pegasus power ranger. It's all good as long as you're happy and spreading that joy around.
okay had to laugh at the power ranger thing

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Thanks! I'm not sure how violin went. Quickly, that's for sure. tee hee.
The teacher has a very heavy accent and ds couldn't really understand her. Even I had trouble. I hope we get more used to her accent so that it doesn't become an issue.

I could tell ds was a little aggravated. The teacher was having him play one note and holding it for 4 seconds (a long, drawn out note). Over and over again. Ds kept saying "Ok, now let's play a song!"
Oh yes, I remember when my niece started violin and wanted to play for us...... "good job sweetie! What was that?" "Twinkle twinkle little star!"

The accent will probably get better w/ time, my cousin married a scotsman and it took a while, but now I only miss a word or two sometimes.

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And one of the stalls were selling rocks for $500 that you use to make "super water" it heals everything! it wasn't even an attractive rock, and they couldn't explain what exactly was special about this rock, people were buying it though.
you're kidding - ...... I don't even know what to say to that

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#117 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 12:28 PM
 
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Has anyone watched the zeitgeist movie that was released in 2007?

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#118 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 12:34 PM
 
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Has anyone watched the zeitgeist movie that was released in 2007?
I own it and have watched it several times; including with a discussion group...

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#119 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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first of all, popping back on to say i started brewing my speical winter wine, and i think it's going well-- i took a juice bottle, put my mulling spices in (i use a bay leaf, a cinnamon stick, and then in a brewing bag (like cheese cloth, only thicker)-- cloves, whole allspice, some dried cirtus peel, and some ground nutmeg)... half chard, half reisling, and it's in the fridge.... tasy so far! i've no idea how long it will take, but i didnt want to... heat it, kwim?

second-- thought of a more intelligent way to possibly explain the types of appropriation.... in terms of history (historian here, so i tend to do that, lol)? that "new" implies taking it fresh and clean and being forward looking (which i think applies a lot to the new agers i know).... and the "pagan" view would be more concerned with the connection to the past (which is certainly true of me....)?

then i see this conversation.... oceanseve's comment, which i'd made earlier, about energy.... and clay's wise as always words. that was my point before, about terms. it's a hard conversation to have online.

i dont know that i know any really foofy pagans, but as i've said before, some of the most earthy and rooted women i know are true new age-spiritualists.

and now, i think i shall go do some energy work.... in the garden.

happy weekend, and in the hobbit tradition-- virutal packages of yoda chocolate and bottles of my new special wine, and a big happy my birthday tomorrow to you all, in case i really do leave the computer off......::

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#120 of 675 Old 10-04-2008, 02:12 PM
 
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i shut my pc off last night at 5pm and i come back to see !3! more pages of posts. you all are a talkative bunch. lol

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Originally Posted by battymama View Post
to me there is a lot more to goth then just a look, although i o like the look very much, in fact i love it. To me it is about acknowledging the dark mysterious side of life and of ourselves.
i like the look too, although i am more of a hippy and dont wear makeup. lol
No kiding! i kept on going back and trying to find out what was happening, i wanted the juicy details darn it!
me too. i looked for the post. lol
OceansEve- We participate in an expo awhile ago, and it was mainly newagers, they had a very different feel to them. And one of the stalls were selling rocks for $500 that you use to make "super water" it heals everything! it wasn't even an attractive rock, and they couldn't explain what exactly was special about this rock, people were buying it though. Now maybe this is a super rock, but to me all rocks are super rocks, it is all in your head.
$500? dyk what kind of rock? all my "rocks" are free.
well i am off to watch buffy, an dream about waking up and finding spike tied up in my bath tub, why should they have all the fun?
he is yummy! i love that show!

Me,DH,DS1'95, '98,DSD'03,DD1'07,DD2'09,DS2'12 Living with Fructose Malabsorption Syndrome and Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome Type 3-Hypermobility.)o( and sometimes I get toif I am lucky.
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