LDS Mamas and Papas~ Fall/Winter '08 (all are welcome!) - Mothering Forums

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Old 10-12-2008, 11:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey y'all! I know some of us had wanted to keep the LDS Mamas and Papas all inclusive thread going here but man have we been slacking off!

I'm Maggie, mama to 3 girlies and wife to my DH Robbie. We were sealed a year ago next month- can you believe it???!! I am the YW secretary and Rob was just called as the EQ secretary.

Besides that my oldest baby is going to be 5 on Friday

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Old 11-02-2008, 09:34 PM
 
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ok, I'll start off with a really controversial one. Can we keep our 501c3 status, considering what the Church is doing in California, re Prop 8?

And, how can I keep my mouth shut long enough for this to go away to keep me from being excommunicated?

both valid questions, and worthy of discussion. I thank God every Sunday that I don't live in CA.

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Old 11-03-2008, 05:31 AM
 
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I'm Carolyn, mama of two and married for 8 years to Dave. I am the YW secretary and ward chorister, DH is an EQ teacher and in charge of church cleaning every third month.

Yes, we can keep our tax exempt status. From Wikipedia:

Quote:
Organizations with this classification are prohibited from conducting political campaign activities to influence elections to public office. Public charities (but not private foundations) are permitted to conduct a limited amount of lobbying to influence legislation. Although the law states that "no substantial part" of a public charity's activities may be devoted to lobbying, charities with very large budgets may lawfully expend a million dollars (under the "expenditure" test) or more (under the "substantial part" test) per year on lobbying
The church is not backing a political candidate, but is supporting legislation that would affect a doctrinal issue.

I'm glad I don't live in California either. There is a lot of ugliness from backers on both sides of the debate.

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Old 11-03-2008, 09:27 AM
 
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How, exactly, would the legislation affect a doctrinal issue?

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Old 11-03-2008, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Kate~ Carolyn is right.
Also I know that there is concern that the redefining of marriage would effect the church in that it might become an issue trumping a church's "rights" and church's will be forced to preform same-sex marriages. Now this may or may not happen- I can honestly see it happening any way. Really, only time will tell. I understand YES on 8ers concerns and I wish NO on 8ers would address those concerns. I think both sides are sort of arguing without explaining their positions. If we could just come together on this!!!

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I'm glad I don't live in California either. There is a lot of ugliness from backers on both sides of the debate.
This is for sure! It is getting pretty darn ugly. Both YES and NO 8 signs are being torn down and defamed. I just wish we could all agree to disagree and quit calling the other side names (whichever side that is). I hate hearing the YES on 8ers being called bigots and the NO on 8ers being called immoral.

Seriously Wednesday cannot come soon enough!!

IMNSHO marriage is a religious and personal issue that the gov't should get it's nose out of. When is THAT going to be on the ballot?

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Old 11-03-2008, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And while I have y'all can I just say that I LOOOOOVED the Conference talk on "simple living". I keep meaning to bring this up on nLDS

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Old 11-03-2008, 03:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
Kate~ Carolyn is right.
Also I know that there is concern that the redefining of marriage would effect the church in that it might become an issue trumping a church's "rights" and church's will be forced to preform same-sex marriages.
It very simply cannot and will not happen. The people telling people that it can are fearmongerers and know that it cannot happen. We have freedom of religion in this country. That's why, despite anti-descrimination laws, we and the catholics and several other denominations do not have to ordain women. If they haven't forced us to do that, do you really think they're going to get around freedom of religion to force us to perform gay marriages? Heck, clergy are allowed to not marry people because of whatever criteria they want, including most often, not being members of their church!

What this is about, is letting other people do with their lives what they will. This really isn't about us.

Perhaps you have heard of the two plans presented in Heaven. In one, we were all forced to live according to God's will, and in the other, we all got to choose whether to live according to His will and His plans for us? And which was the righteous plan?

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Old 11-03-2008, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey I hear ya Kate and you know I agree. BUT of late the line between church and state has been blurred and moved back. What people who are all for this (prayer in schools, etc) don't seem to realize is that if you open that door the state can move right in and make itself comfy in your religion. I can totally see this happening. That's not to say I am 100% in agreement with Prop 8. What I am saying here is it's crap. All of it. Both sides seem to be out to get each other rather than working together for an end that could benefit us all. For some odd reason when it comes to marriage people really whig out. But, then again, I guess we should have seen this coming as marriage always has been rather dramatic.

So to sum it all up- I have little to no faith in the gov't when it comes to protecting rights least of which separation of church and state. It hasn't done the best of jobs. So I can see where people are afraid and I can see where people are saying there is nothing to be afraid of. There is just no easy answer to the Prop 8 issue.

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Old 11-03-2008, 08:02 PM
 
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We don't have any prayer in schools, but my daughter (8) just asked me the other night if she "had to pray during the moment of silence." Good teaching opportunity about "when to pray", but I'm not sure when it came up for discussion that the moment of silence was specifically for praying.

BTW, I'm Becky, I have dd 10, dd 8, ds almost 5, and dd 2. She's crazy. I'm the Primary pres. and our program is next Sunday. I'm expecting #5 next spring. I'm really annoyed with my kids right now. What else? I want to be a midwife when I grow up. I did NOT attend BYU (went to USC, so I follow news in CA closely).

I honestly have no clue how I would choose for Prop 8. My family in CA all have really strong opinions, and I think I would be really split, b/c I've always been a live and let live person, and I feel like others should be able to make their own choices. The question is, what is the risk to us being able to make OUR own choices, and IF that is a risk, then I would feel like that would drive my vote for sure. Like protecting certain other rights that are controversial.
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Bekka View Post
We don't have any prayer in schools, but my daughter (8) just asked me the other night if she "had to pray during the moment of silence." Good teaching opportunity about "when to pray", but I'm not sure when it came up for discussion that the moment of silence was specifically for praying.
I never thought of the moment of silence being for prayer (as I never was really silent during those times ) but that makes sense! To me there is never a "wrong" time for personal prayer, ykwim?
Quote:
BTW, I'm Becky, I have dd 10, dd 8, ds almost 5, and dd 2. She's crazy. I'm the Primary pres. and our program is next Sunday. I'm expecting #5 next spring. I'm really annoyed with my kids right now.
CONGRATS on #5!!!! : (did I know about that????)
re: the bolded mine are driving me up the wall, too. *sigh*

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Old 11-04-2008, 04:51 PM
 
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Oh hooray! : I've been away for at least a month!

Intro:
Angela (member of 5 yrs) wife to Michael (BIC) for three years, mother to Caleb (7 mo). Just moved into our FIRST house. Using sheets for curtains until I get the time and the dough. :
Just moved into a branch that was our ward until it split a month ago so no calling yet. I'm feeling Primary-ily though.

I voted today!
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Old 11-05-2008, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What does "BIC" mean?

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Old 11-05-2008, 03:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
What does "BIC" mean?
BIC = "Born in Covenant"
You see it on PAF
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I thought that's what it meant! But what does PAF mean?

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Old 11-05-2008, 03:15 PM
 
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I thought that's what it meant! But what does PAF mean?
Personal Ancestral File, a family history program
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Old 11-05-2008, 08:15 PM
 
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can you LDS women tell me something? I hope I am not stereotyping (please call me out if I am) but how does your faith govern your ability to make a home? Every LDS women/family I have ever met have been so extraordinary - well behaved, peaceful, clean homes, strong relationships, etc.

I am actually thinking of investigating the church to see if I would fit in because everything in LDS friends I have had is what I want.

I think its the Peace mostly.

What if you are LDS and you are just undisciplined and messy? Then what?
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Old 11-05-2008, 10:46 PM
 
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What if you are LDS and you are just undisciplined and messy? Then what?
Well, I am very undisciplined and messy!!!!! I think that my faith helps me find more reasons for creating a home that is a place of peace and love than just "fear of CPS" or "just because." I HATE cleaning. But I have 4 (going on 5) children. If I (and DH who is wonderful) don't model at least some cleaning behaviors, organizing, housekeeping, loading DW, laundry (for 6 people), etc., our children will not learn good habits.

I regularly schedule meetings at my house so that I have to clean it. Dinner guests, etc. I have NO internal motivation to clean and I'm very tolerant of clutter. Then one day it makes me crazy and cranky.

I have to help my children learn routines to help them cope with the things they want to do. And so we work together on it. Sometimes we're "on top of things", but we're usually getting dressed out of laundry baskets and 2 days behind on the pots, but not the plates and glasses.

I DO think that my reasons for parenting are faith driven, and for me, kind caring children are more important than clean (struggling with my 4 yo boy). We talk about morality, respect for all others, kindness, choices, Golden Rule, etc. ALL THE TIME.

And please see my above post--my kids were really annoying me the other day.
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Old 11-06-2008, 07:04 AM
 
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I pointed out earlier in the thread that the Church has not violated any conditions or laws to be considered tax-exempt and their tax exempt status will not be revoked. There is a huge misconseption that Churches are not allowed to be involved politically at all in order to remain tax exempt, but the laws state that they can be involved in lobbying efforts. I am actually reading quite a few interesting conversations about prop 8 right now on an LDS board. I am not as eloquent or as well-versed as other people who are pro-8 on this issue, but the general consensus seems to be that it is an eroding of morality issue that is the biggest concern. Also here is the Church's official statement regarding prop 8 passing. I'm not going to comment further on this issue as I really, really, really don't want a political argument on this thread.

Anyway.

To answer transformed... the Church is a church of order. Everything is done the way it is done for a reason. Because many of us are raised in the Church and have held callings (asked to volunteer in the church in a specific task) from the time we were 12 or 13, it prepares us for adulthood and helps us learn organizational skills and many other skills that are not taught in schools or in every family. Even if we're converts, we are put to work right away which keeps us busy. I find it easier to be more organized and in control when I'm busier with things relating to my callings.

That said, I am naturally messy and unorganized. I think I am Bekka's twin because I could have written her post exactly. I only keep my house clean to set an example for my kids and because company's coming. And really I could do a better job of it if I tried harder (unfortunately I'm naturally lazy, and it's something I'm working on every day... if I feel like it).

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Old 11-06-2008, 10:10 AM
 
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can you LDS women tell me something? I hope I am not stereotyping (please call me out if I am) but how does your faith govern your ability to make a home? Every LDS women/family I have ever met have been so extraordinary - well behaved, peaceful, clean homes, strong relationships, etc.

I am actually thinking of investigating the church to see if I would fit in because everything in LDS friends I have had is what I want.

I think its the Peace mostly.
Exactally.
I'm a convert, my family wasn't LDS, and I can honestly say I came from the cleanest home in AZ, but my family/home didn't have that feeling of peace you mentioned.
My home is "clean" not to my OCD mother's standard ( I love her, I swear! ), but in order.
I think that is what's special about LDS homes, there is ORDER, not always cleaniness, but there is an order. Everyone has a job to do, we help each other, there is a bigger picture involved- our families are forever. The teachings of Christ and that simple truth ("that the family is centeral to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children." The Family ) is what centers us.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:19 AM
 
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from the Church statement:
Quote:
Even more, the Church does not object to rights for same-sex couples regarding hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches.
Except that the FL amendment actually bans civil unions, too, to it does inhibit rights regarding hospitalization, medical care, etc.

And whether gay people, (who would not otherwise be entering into straight marriages if we told them they couldn't marry each other), marry each other, does not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family. Seriously. Nor does them marrying each other at the courthouse or the UU Church violate our Church's constitutional rights. It really, really doesn't.

If Cora didn't need Church so much right now, I'd be leaving the Church over this human rights issue. And it pains me horribly to say this (seriously, I cry when I think about it).

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Old 11-06-2008, 03:13 PM
 
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From the US tax codes:


In general, no organization, including a church, may
qualify for IRC section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial
part of its activities is attempting to influence legisla*
tion (commonly known as lobbying). An IRC section
501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but
too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.
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Old 11-06-2008, 03:43 PM
 
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The church sent out one letter to encourage members to participate in this process. I'm unsure if church dollars went toward this effort, and if they did it is unlikely that it came from tax-exempt tithing money. Most of the Mormon money in support of prop 8 came from private donors who belong to the LDS church. They have not engaged in "too much lobbying activity." Depending on the size of the organization, even millions of dollars toward a lobbying effort is not considered too much lobbying activity. The Church is a very large organization with 13 million members worldwide.

Being tax-exempt actually protects the church from being taxed twice. The church pays property tax and other taxes so it's not like we're tax-free. The tithing money has been donated from tax paying members of the church and has already been subject to taxation.

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Old 11-06-2008, 03:47 PM
 
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whats up with the 700 club then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearGirl View Post
From the US tax codes:


In general, no organization, including a church, may
qualify for IRC section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial
part of its activities is attempting to influence legisla*
tion (commonly known as lobbying). An IRC section
501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but
too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.
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Old 11-06-2008, 04:00 PM
 
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I disagree that encouraging members to fund this is not akin to funding it, and so does the tax code.
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Old 11-06-2008, 04:03 PM
 
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How is one letter considered "substantial?"

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so back to the peaceful home discussion

oh, an aside: I am going to start studying with a missionary soon. LDS has always called me - since I was in 4th grade. I am ready to check it out and find out why.

So how do you learn "order?" Do you pray about it?

What are your favorite resources to study? Anything in the book of mormon that inspires you especially?
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Old 11-06-2008, 04:56 PM
 
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So how do you learn "order?" Do you pray about it?
The practices of the church, IMHO and experience, brings order and peace. As a family we pray together morning and evening, we pray for each other. We have a Family Home Evening on Mondays (anyone of any faith or background could profit from this practice IMO), we go to church together.
I'm sure others on the thread could tell you of their experiences with how the church has streghtened their family.
In my own experiences, I have felt a huge (searching for the right word here...) "void" (I guess) in my husband and mine relationship when we don't pray together. When we pray together we commicate to God that which is sometimes hard to communicate to each other. YKWIM? It's hard to explain.

The missionaries will discuss some of our practices with you, ask lots of questions, if you want to strenghten your home and family ask them how the church can do that for you, make the most out of your visits with them!
Quote:
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What are your favorite resources to study? Anything in the book of mormon that inspires you especially?
I grew up reading the Bible, this is still my favorite. Besides the Bible, I always reccomend the Book of Mormon, especially 3 Nephi (when Christ visits the Nephites) PM me and I'll send you my testimony of the Book of Mormon.
Other than the standard works (that is what we call the scriptures) I also like the Ensign (it's one of the church magazines.)

If you haven't already, I would suggest looking at Mormon.org for basic infomation about the Church.

Hope this was helpful. I've only been a member for five years.
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:11 PM
 
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Everyone is welcome :
as long as they follow the forum guidelines:

"While we will not restrict discussions to persons of the faith being discussed we will be active in discouraging an individual from posting for the purpose of disagreement, with no interest in practicing the faith or belief in discussion, or to prove a faith or a belief to be wrong, misguided, or not based on fact."

Again, I wasn't sure if your comment was snarky. I apologize.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:07 AM
 
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Heyla everyone! Thank you for your patience.

As mentioned above, the Spirituality forum guidelines say:
Quote:
The Spirituality board is a forum of support, respectful requests of information, and sharing of faith and practice. To uphold this purpose the board will not host discussions of debate or criticism. Disagreements about spiritual issues should be set aside out of respect for the diversity and varying interpretations and beliefs that we hold as a community.

While we will not restrict discussions to persons of the faith being discussed we will be active in discouraging an individual from posting for the purpose of disagreement, with no interest in practicing the faith or belief in discussion, or to prove a faith or a belief to be wrong, misguided, or not based on fact. Prosletyzing, to convert to a faith or from one, will not be permitted. Controversial subjects of discussion related to spiritual and religious beliefs and origins can be found elsewhere on the internet and we invite you to seek out other sites for that purpose.
Posts which fall outside these guidelines will be removed, and threads that drift too far beyond these guidelines may be removed. I appreciate the passion and committment shown by everyone in this thread, but hope we can all share our opinions within the Spirituality Guidelines and the mdc User Agreement. And in case anyone wants to persue a more in depth discussion of the role of politics in religion or religion in politics, please consider posting a thread in Religious Studies.

Thank you again and have a good thread!

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Old 11-07-2008, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey transformed!!!!

If I remember correctly you and I have frequented a lot of the same threads so I am glad to see you here! :

I want to get in on this peaceful home convo as right now this is what I am striving toward (after all more peaceful homes makes a more peaceful world!) I'll be back after my work is done (hopefully).

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